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A few weeks ago we visited a farmer who was making his own organic liquid fertilizer. I'm not sure of the exact details, but from what the guy was saying it seems rotting produce/organic matter is put into a blue barrel, then left for a while. When it is partly decomposed two substances are added. One is called 'GM' and the other 'Gut Numtarn' (?? sugar).

The containers are then sealed and the organic fertilizer is created.

Does anyone have a clue what I'm talking about? I know it's really vague, but things are never clear in LOS. It looked very interesting.

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A few weeks ago we visited a farmer who was making his own organic liquid fertilizer. I'm not sure of the exact details, but from what the guy was saying it seems rotting produce/organic matter is put into a blue barrel, then left for a while. When it is partly decomposed two substances are added. One is called 'GM' and the other 'Gut Numtarn' (?? sugar).

The containers are then sealed and the organic fertilizer is created.

Does anyone have a clue what I'm talking about? I know it's really vague, but things are never clear in LOS. It looked very interesting.

Dear SS,

They use banana and a number of other fruits with high sugar levels and the fermented liquid is then diluted for a range of uses from tonics to fertiliser. Bit like brewing beer, can explode depending on the sugar added.

If you want a simple organic liquid fertiliser then you can make it by putting raw manure in a drum of water give it a mix and wait until it decomposes a bit and some of the pathogens are gone. Keeping the air out :o is the trick to get rid of the nasties and make the nitrogen content more useful. My Dad used to keep a drum of water with cow shit in it in the corner of his vegie garden and just ladle a bit out when needed. His wasn't that scientific simply keep the manure content stable and the drum full of water with the lid on.

With the fruit versions there is quite a bit of web material on it. One I can remember from Cambodia which was also used to reduce the smell in pigsites as well as a fertiliser.

Isaanaussie

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You can also get liquid fertiliser via a vermicompost or vermiculture bed. The liquid effluent (dark brown) that drains out the bottom of a raised worm bed is good stuff. Dilute with water again. Just watch the water level in the bed is not too high as the worms and the compost will suffer. Again plenty of info on the web.

Isaanaussie

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They make that type of fertilizer here in Loei. The finished product is a clear dark green colored liguid. I don't know how they make it. My wife says they use the effluent left over after making methane from hog manure. Sugar cane is also a big part of it.

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They make that type of fertilizer here in Loei. The finished product is a clear dark green colored liguid. I don't know how they make it. My wife says they use the effluent left over after making methane from hog manure. Sugar cane is also a big part of it.

Correct Gary about the biodigester effluent. The liquid fraction is a great fertiliser both for crops as well as fish feeding. The solids get dried as treated manure or used as worm bedding material and then the castings are used as potting mix. The liquids from the worm beds I mentioned above.

I believe the liquid fractions can also be used in aquaculture.

isaanaussie

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Thanks for the info. We had a lot of Som O (Thai grapefruit?) fallen from trees and rotting on the ground. The guy who is looking after our land suggested collecting them to make this liquid. I thought they would be too acidic, but have given it a go. I've also added some other weeds from the garden, but nothing with fruit.

Do you think this will work or is there too little sugar? Also, the area we have them in is difficult to make air tight, could this be a problem?

Any links on the composting technique or info on where to buy the 'dark green liquid' would be much appreciated.

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Thanks for the info. We had a lot of Som O (Thai grapefruit?) fallen from trees and rotting on the ground. The guy who is looking after our land suggested collecting them to make this liquid. I thought they would be too acidic, but have given it a go. I've also added some other weeds from the garden, but nothing with fruit.

Do you think this will work or is there too little sugar? Also, the area we have them in is difficult to make air tight, could this be a problem?

Any links on the composting technique or info on where to buy the 'dark green liquid' would be much appreciated.

Below is the only formula I can find, thought I had kept others but cannot find the notes. This one is used for sanitising pig deep litter in Cambodia or Laos. As far as I know it is the same.

The formula is simple: 10kg fruit to 10kg brown sugar. This is the so called "Father Formula". A slightly less efficacious mixture is the "Mother Formula". This is 10kg of vegetables to 3kg brown sugar.

The formula is best made with fruit picked in the morning. As the heat of the day progresses, the fruit bacteria would escape to the soil. The fruit is not washed so that the natural bacteria remains on the skin which is included.

The mixture is left in a cool place to fermant for a period of 12-15 days. At this stage the fermented liquid can be mixed with water: 2 dessert spoons to 10 litres of water. The fermented liquid feed can then be transferred into plastic bottles leaving a gap of 4" at the top to allow for gas expansion. If when the bottle is opened, there is no "fizz", more sugar needs to be added.

The mixture can be kept for up to 2 years. Pastor Kae-Nu brews a new batch every 6 months to meet the needs of his own farm.

Most Efficacious in Every Case

Apparently the benefits of the "Pig Potion" are not limited to pigs. Other benefits include:

Insect repellent for use on plants, crops and even on humans

Stops the toilet smelling when mixed with the water in the cistern

Improves excema and skin conditions when mixed with bath water

Aids digestion in humans (Pastor Kae-Nu averted the need for surgery which he could not afford by taking a thimble-full a day)

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HI Aussie

"�� Insect repellent for use on plants, crops and even on humans

�� Stops the toilet smelling when mixed with the water in the cistern

�� Improves excema and skin conditions when mixed with bath water

�� Aids digestion in humans (Pastor Kae-Nu averted the need for surgery which he could not afford by taking a thimble-full a day)"

these lines sound like you're describing Neem. :o

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HI Aussie

"�� Insect repellent for use on plants, crops and even on humans

�� Stops the toilet smelling when mixed with the water in the cistern

�� Improves excema and skin conditions when mixed with bath water

�� Aids digestion in humans (Pastor Kae-Nu averted the need for surgery which he could not afford by taking a thimble-full a day)"

these lines sound like you're describing Neem. :o

Gungadin,

Probably true. Anything to knock the edge off pig urine smells is worth a look. My plans have been developing for a number of years and there are now a few "closer than I would like" sty neighbours. I am putting in a sprinkler system for the pigs (cooling and piss dilution) and will try this pig potion in that water.

IA

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A recipe sent to me by chevykanteve:

Do you ever use EM fertilizer? That stuff works magic for fruit trees, vegetabes and flowers. Here's how I make it:

1. Containing vessel: standard size cement caisson with the bottom part cemented in to render watertight.

2. Cover: sheet plastic, sort of like a tear-proof transparent paper. Keeps gases inside and prevents --or at least mitigates against -- spawning of mosquitoes.

3. The "Recipe":

a. 30-40 buckets of water

b. 2 buckets of buffalo or cow manure (dried or partly dried, though fresh stuff works!!)

c. At least 1/2 bucket of kitchen vegetable waste (good opportunity to clean out the refrigerator

of forgotten onions and things like that)

d. 6-8 capfuls of EM (one bottle of the stuff costs about 90 baht nowadays)

e. About 1/10th liter of nam oi (viscous sugarcane liquid available from the same stores that

sell the EM.

f. Stir briskly for a minute or two (avoid advice from others who insist it should be shaken and

not stirred -- some chap named Bond keeps posting that advice)

g. Affix the plastic cover and wait at least 3 weeks.

h. Serve on your plants!

Cheers,

Soundman. :o

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This stuff works very well and is cheap and relatively easy to find...

Thanks a lot for the pic, the stuff looks interesting. What do you use it for?

I checked out the website it's here There is info on the use for different livestock, aquaculture, pigs and composting, as well as a recipe for the fertilizer.

This stuff actually looks like microorganism (bacteria) used to help organic matter break down. Helping convert ammonia to nitrite and then nitrate (or something like that).

The green container with the animal pics (marked HORMONES), what do you use this for?

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I THINK the stuff on left is organic waste from pigs, fish, chickens etc. It MIGHT be identical to the other product, I've been using it as a secondary fertilizer. I use at half-strength and never burned the plants or had probs. The website for this product doesn't work (too bad -- I would like to know more about it). I wrote "hormones" on the bottle by mistake, it's really micro-nutes and good stuff. I don't know NPK of it though.

The other is indeed beneficial bacteria. I mix it into cocopeat with Azomite, wormcastings, bat guano before introducing seedlings and clones. Good stuff also. Again, I don't know the NPK. Thanks for the website...now I can read what's really in the stuff :o

This lady has both products at her shop in Chatuchak Park:

Khun Wasana # 02 618 3660

Edited by kloghead
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Seen as it's commonly referred to as EM, this is probably a genetic version of the trademarked product Effective Microorganisms. The wiki link to this is very interesting, seems to be a bit of a miracle product, not much has been proven, although it's benefits for composting seem certain.

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Yesterday I bought some Efficient Organisms, it came with several recipes for composting, including a '24 hr Compost' as well as a recipe for an organic insect spray. If anyone would like more info on the recipes, pls PM.

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  • 4 months later...

APNAN Effective Micro-organisms handbook

have a gander at this PDF its password protected so I cannot upload it to my usual site. I reckon this is as good a document as you can find for information on EM and it was produced as a joint project between Japan (where EM originated) and Thailand (where it is being put into action at the Saraburi farm toxin free farm further info on saraburi farm) so it is country specific as it were. Loads of recipes and methodology for using EM in a variety of senarios including making Bokashi, insecticides, crop production, orchards, animal rearing and mushroom growing. I've also just got round to uploading another bunch of docs here jandtaa's farming related documents including some other info on EM. I recommend checking out the "Indigineous micro-organisms" doc, this is the method and recipes I have been brewing up for the last couple of years !! I've also uploaded a recipe for galingal spray.So have a good read and get brewing lads and lasses !!!

Lets get rid of those nasty 'cides cheers Jandtaa

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post-47265-1235716506_thumb.jpgpost-47265-1235716534_thumb.jpg

Me again !! taking a day off today so thought I'd tidy up my "paperwork" and post some hopefully useful links and docs !! Heres the cover of a book I picked up at the Thai bookshop in the BigC mall in Chiang Rai a couple of years ago. It's all about using EM to compost and produce fertiliser with a view to selling the results. Has a load of recipes with detailed N-P-K values as well as trace elements and PH as well as growth stimulaters and a section on rhizobium innocculation. Obviously its all in Thai and I'm struggling to translate it all as I only have fairly basic reading skills (If anyone can help I'll scan it to a PDF and upload it !! ) but for 210 baht I think its a bargain and if you have access to an English speaking Thai could prove useful even If its just to get your workers to understand the lines you're working along.

Edited by jandtaa
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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi folks

picked up some EM and molasses ( กากนํ้าตาล ) from an ag shop in CR yesterday 1 litre of EM (r.r.p. 89 baht) 65 baht 1 kilo molasses 25 baht 

cheers J

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Something a bit sobering:

14838: How effective are ‘Effective Microorganisms’? Results from an organic farming field experiment

Mayer, Jochen; Scheid, Susanne and Oberholzer, Hans-Rudolf (2008) How effective are ‘Effective Microorganisms’? Results from an organic farming field experiment . [oral] Presentation at Cultivating the Future Based on Science: 2nd Conference of the International Society of Organic Agriculture Research (ISOFAR), Modena, Italy, June 18-20, 2008.

Full text available as:

RTF (Rich Text Format)

Summary

The effectiveness of ‘Effective Microorganisms’ (EM) was investigated in a four years field experiment (2003-2006) at Zurich, Switzerland. The experiment was designed to enable clear differentiation between effects of the microorganisms in the EM treatments (Bokashi and EMA) and its substrate (sterilized treatments). Crop yields and soil microbiological parameters as soil respiration and microbial biomass were determined. The EM treatments showed no effect on yield and soil microorganisms which were caused by the EM microorganisms. Observed effects could be related to the effect of the carrier substrate of the EM products. The sampling time showed stronger effects on soil microbial biomass and soil respiration compared to the effect of the treatments. Hence ‘Effective Microorganisms’ are not able to improve yields and soil quality in mid term (4 years) in arable farming under temperate climatic conditions as in Central Europe.

Initial positive field trials came from Japan. Fairly similar climatically to C. Europe.

A germination trial from Brazil, pitted EM against a popular bio manure and water as a control. EM won it hands down in Germination rate, plant weight and root length.

Raining here, so surfing. :o .

Regards

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Hi TT

yes there's certainly a lot of conflicting evidence out there !! It became popular in the UK a while back and I have to say I was sceptical as it was fairly expensive. Out here it's certainly more affordable (I believe its sold at cost price but can't find the link at the moment). From what I have read It like many other organic methods takes a long time to take full effect, with farmers reporting mixed results in the first 5 years but then a steady increase in its efficiency. There's also the fact it is usually used in conjunction with a whole nature farming approach so it could be that it works in harmony with other inputs/methods (maybe these were lacking in some of the field trials ??) If I was cynical I would look into who was funding the field trials !

This is the first time I've used it as usually I brew up my own home-made version (bio-indigenious micro-organisms) but unfortunately my wife just binned the brew (she was making up some home-made washing up liquid and wanted the bottles and apparently the brew "smell no good" :o  !! ) and I don't have time to start another batch. Usually I use it to make a quick compost and as the base for a pesticide and a fish emulsion so it will be interesting to see how the commercial stuff compares. 

I'm also gonna use it in my green manure trials to see if it has any effect . At the end of the day It seems to have so many uses that maybe it isn't the best option for all purposes but I figure its worth field trialing and it won't break the bank giving it a go !!

I would be interested to here the views of others who have been using it for whatever purpose over a period of time and any observations they may have.

Cheers all J 

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EM HAPPENS in an organic garden, or any garden that emphasizes soil fertility. Sure innoculants and concentrates can be useful, but most are already there in the soil, and if given the right conditions with incorporation of organic crop residues and manures, the effective microorganisms flourish. That is the basic principle of organic gardening and farming.

EM is really popular in Thailand, but I'm afraid there may be too much emphasis on extraordinary methods such as this, and not enough emphasis on basics of building soil fertility. We must keep it in perspective with a cost - benefit analysis; what is the size of your garden of farm, is it worthwhile to take time and money to create or buy a special product like this. Or, especially with large fields or orchards, is it adequate or even preferable to rotate crops with green manure, and/or spread animal manures and watch your EMs grow. You'll see it in the color and tilth of the soil and in the earthworm population, and in the productivity, color, size and taste of the produce.

In my humble opinion, spread mulch, cook compost, grow green manure, and save your 90 baht for a liter of another kind of brew at the end of the day. don

Edited by drtreelove
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Dear All,

I came across this information on the web and am interested in the comments of anyone who has tried it.

Aerobic Bokashi:

Rapid decomposition.

The resources we have most readily available are animal dung, rice husk and rice bran. Other organic matter that can be used are as follows:

Can use rice bran, corn meal, soybean organic material, maneur, corn bran, wheat bran, maize flour, rice husk, bean husk, rice straw, oil cake cotton, seed cake, press mud, bagusse, chopped weeds, sawdust, coconut fiber and husk, crop residues, fruit bunches in oil palm, fish meal, bone meal, dung of any animal, kitchen scraps, seaweed, crab shells, and similar materials.

Can also add: rice husk charcoal, zeolite, kelp, grass, and wood ash. These porous materials improve soil physical conditions and nutrient holding capacity.

Should smell sweet and fermented (with white mold).

To make:

  • 2 parts animal dung
  • 1 part rice husk
  • a little rice bran

Spread this combination in long short rows (around 1 ft high).

Water with:

  • 1 part EM
  • 1 part Molasses (can use sugar diluted in hot water but should be strong)
  • 100 parts Water

Saturate initially until thorough. If squeeze and water comes out, you have too much water. Water the first day. Cover with bags or straw. Compost will get hot and then come back down. Then it is ready. Takes about 4-5 days.

Take and use on top of garden beds. Don’t let it dry out too much. Use as soon as possible. If can’t use, dry it out and use later. Temperature should be between 35-45 degrees Celsius.

Reference site: http://www.punpunthailand.org/sustainable-agriculture.html

They also have recipes for EM and insect repellents

Isaanaussie

Edited by IsaanAussie
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Hi IsaanAussie welcome to the organic forum  :o good to have you on board !!

Yeah Bokashi is interesting stuff I've no personal experience (It's too expensive to buy the rice bran in the UK and I just haven't got round to it out here)

The only thing I would question is spreading it on the surface, I have always understood it should be buried and plants grown on top of it. Basically you are fermenting the kitchen waste etc.. and although I've never come across it stated as to why it is effective despite extensive reading (could of just missed it !!), As a chef I am familiar with fermentation as a means of preservation i.e. sauerkraut, kimchi pickles and out here pak gaard dong, so I'm guessing the bokashi is breaking down slower and acting as a slow release fertiliser .

more in-depth recipes and info can be found here APNAN EM handbook 

cheers J

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A recipe sent to me by chevykanteve:
Do you ever use EM fertilizer? That stuff works magic for fruit trees, vegetabes and flowers. Here's how I make it:

1. Containing vessel: standard size cement caisson with the bottom part cemented in to render watertight.

2. Cover: sheet plastic, sort of like a tear-proof transparent paper. Keeps gases inside and prevents --or at least mitigates against -- spawning of mosquitoes.

3. The "Recipe":

a. 30-40 buckets of water

b. 2 buckets of buffalo or cow manure (dried or partly dried, though fresh stuff works!!)

c. At least 1/2 bucket of kitchen vegetable waste (good opportunity to clean out the refrigerator

of forgotten onions and things like that)

d. 6-8 capfuls of EM (one bottle of the stuff costs about 90 baht nowadays)

e. About 1/10th liter of nam oi (viscous sugarcane liquid available from the same stores that

sell the EM.

f. Stir briskly for a minute or two (avoid advice from others who insist it should be shaken and

not stirred -- some chap named Bond keeps posting that advice)

g. Affix the plastic cover and wait at least 3 weeks.

h. Serve on your plants!

Cheers,

Soundman. :o

i just bought some EM and just started composing (anaerobic method). a quick question, what's the resulting end product look like? is it a sludge? how do you apply it? on the surface or dig it in? would it be better server with an olive on top?

also, during the fermentation process, would be be ok to open the container and keep adding more stuff or is that a no no?

thanks, steve

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  • 4 weeks later...
A recipe sent to me by chevykanteve:
Do you ever use EM fertilizer? That stuff works magic for fruit trees, vegetabes and flowers. Here's how I make it:

1. Containing vessel: standard size cement caisson with the bottom part cemented in to render watertight.

2. Cover: sheet plastic, sort of like a tear-proof transparent paper. Keeps gases inside and prevents --or at least mitigates against -- spawning of mosquitoes.

3. The "Recipe":

a. 30-40 buckets of water

b. 2 buckets of buffalo or cow manure (dried or partly dried, though fresh stuff works!!)

c. At least 1/2 bucket of kitchen vegetable waste (good opportunity to clean out the refrigerator

of forgotten onions and things like that)

d. 6-8 capfuls of EM (one bottle of the stuff costs about 90 baht nowadays)

e. About 1/10th liter of nam oi (viscous sugarcane liquid available from the same stores that

sell the EM.

f. Stir briskly for a minute or two (avoid advice from others who insist it should be shaken and

not stirred -- some chap named Bond keeps posting that advice)

g. Affix the plastic cover and wait at least 3 weeks.

h. Serve on your plants!

Cheers,

Soundman. :o

i just bought some EM and just started composing (anaerobic method). a quick question, what's the resulting end product look like? is it a sludge? how do you apply it? on the surface or dig it in? would it be better server with an olive on top?

also, during the fermentation process, would be be ok to open the container and keep adding more stuff or is that a no no?

thanks, steve

Hi Steve,

spray it on the crops early morning or late afternoon, if your soil is not fertile enough add it twice a month

in time you will see the soil become more active with good bugs and earth worms a good sign the land is getting more fertile.

we have two kinds of EM one for the smell it smells a bit sour compared to a normal EM for the gardens, for the past ten days have been srpraying each day on fresh pig manure and the smell goes away after a few days. daily after washing the pig enclosures out we spray with Em and the chookie and duck areas helps keep the bugs at bay.

work wonders on plants and trees to give them the boost on nature back into them.

so many methods hard to keep up, lemon grass, orange, pandanus, jackfruits, mangoes.

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  • 3 months later...
APNAN Effective Micro-organisms handbook

have a gander at this PDF its password protected so I cannot upload it to my usual site. I reckon this is as good a document as you can find for information on EM and it was produced as a joint project between Japan (where EM originated) and Thailand (where it is being put into action at the Saraburi farm toxin free farm further info on saraburi farm) so it is country specific as it were. Loads of recipes and methodology for using EM in a variety of senarios including making Bokashi, insecticides, crop production, orchards, animal rearing and mushroom growing. I've also just got round to uploading another bunch of docs here jandtaa's farming related documents including some other info on EM. I recommend checking out the "Indigineous micro-organisms" doc, this is the method and recipes I have been brewing up for the last couple of years !! I've also uploaded a recipe for galingal spray.So have a good read and get brewing lads and lasses !!!

Lets get rid of those nasty 'cides cheers Jandtaa

Thanks Jandtaa. As often the case, much more information than can be quickly absorbed. My wife's land is only a small plot about 22m x 20m, and our house takes up a chunk of that. We started from landfill only 14 months ago and then added raised beds using cinder block walls and hundreds of bags of brahma manure last January. Still the difference in the soil vitality is amazing in this first year alone. All the kitchen peelings and green manure gets mixed back in. So too are added hulls from soy-bean and straw from a rice paddi from her cousin - used first as mulch. Anyway, we live as an extended family (including access by a sister and 3 brothers families) out of these plots for our greens. Family supplies us with our fruits (though we've added plenty of papaya - mostly as a scattered canopy shelter from the strong sun), and we buy our meats from other neighbors.

We've not dedicated any area to composting, but added cuttings under the pepper plants or midst the pak-wan, etc. as seems least cluttered. So far the small flies have brought us an array of tiny birds, garden lizards and toads. So far, not too many snakes... but way too many ants. i.e. our little corner of the neighborhood has a high density of life. Has anyone else started from such a setting? If so, how did yours evolve?

Back to the topic, I'd guess that the benefit of EM to the soil could be compared to eating yogurts for humans - it enriches the ratio of good micro-organisms in the area. Definitely not a quick fix, but one that supports the best environment for health. I've downloaded the book cover and article for more follow-up and will give it a go to keep supporting our soil that so well supports us.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Yesterday I bought some Efficient Organisms, it came with several recipes for composting, including a '24 hr Compost' as well as a recipe for an organic insect spray. If anyone would like more info on the recipes, pls PM.

Howdy....Can you send me your 24hr compost recipe....hope its simple.

My last compost lots have not steamed, nuttin, not even warm toast like temp......bugger

Got a book for you also.

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