Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[inthehouse]

you are right this is a footy weekend so PAD vs Footy well Footy wins and if it rains we all know copers are scared of the rain

nothing is going to happen guys until the big boss's big day. at least the bars are still open and drinks available. unless PAD decides to do something about that? oh wait, ThaiBRave is part of them so its ok ..

[bubba]

Someone needs to call the US Embassy and tell the bin Laden is hiding in the PAD crowds at the airport.

Your latest brilliant idea! What a valuable contribution and eloquent contribution to the discussion. This one is almost as good as your suggestion from yesterday to organise a mob of vigilante farang to take out PAD from Suvarnabhumi.

[meadish_sweetball]

I think it would be wise to not consider ASTV a 'news source', for posts here or otherwise.

Also the 'live feed' shows what their spin doctors want you to see.

Stick with the BBC.

Yeah, BBC has a long history of being fair and balanced and never spin anything...

Whatever source you pick, always be critical.

Ah, but there is a difference between a slight twist of lemon and a whirling vortex of terror.

I do agree with your final line.

[hammered]

I don't think so (the bit about civil war). The notion of northern Thais taking up arms against southern Thais just isn't going to happen. Lawlessness; corruption; economic impasse and confusion - yes. Long-term damage to the nation's world image and credibility; loss of world-standing - quite likely. Coup and counter-coup - probably. But civil war? Nope - 'don't think so.

The basic factors are allthere . Remember that is is going on and on for a lot longer that most people remember ( Thai politics had so many coups that they are allready countless ) . The differences are growing bigger each single moment as we speak and the people supporting them are also getting more and more determinent . This is why we do not have a military coup at the moment because it isn't the solution . They do not have any solution whatsoever . In some areas you allready have a risk of being killed just by wearing the wrong color . imagine that the yellow people are so determined that they actually fight till death , the reds are not going to give up also , espescially because they know they are with more people . Civil war is counting all factors together much closer then you think .

I wonder if anyone's really managed to capture the "Thai perspective" here. And no, I'm certainly not setting myself up as a subject matter expert in that area... I'm just wondering how many Thais actually see the closure of these airports as the kind of terrorist act or assault on humanity that's getting so much play here on TV. Perhaps that really is the mindset; or perhaps those posting here are more directly impacted and driven to stronger attitudes by these events than those we try to speak for. Now I'm the first to concede that when political events DO spin out of control, it can all go bad in a single heartbeat. I just keep coming to the conclusion in this case that the social divide we're talking about is a continuing curse Thailand has to deal with, but that the balloon's not going up over it.

I am in no way going to say I have captured the Thai perspective. What I will say is that there are lot of people utterly sick and tired of the whole thing including PAD, UDD, government and Thaksin and Sondhi. People writing on here tend to have a politicsal persuasion. A lot of ordinary people dont care or have time or inclination to care about politics.

[dotcom]

Give me a freakin break. The PM really needs to just step down, since it really IS a proxy government in power.

Who do you suggest take over running the government?

[digitele]

Ok, I know here on TV we have all types of experts in the aviation field.

So, my question is assuming the airport is cleared:

-How long would it take to re-open?

-Meaning after cleanups, repairs etc. Does it need to be re-certified as in like when it first opened?

Please list what that would entail. I can't see it going from red light to green light too easily.

This might be a real hassle as prolonging to agony further for travellers.

Sullivans law: "Murphy was an optimist"

[brownknees]

It looks as if the government(Prime Minister)are quite content too let this farce go on indefinatly just for the attention it gets,any real government would have had these protesters behind bars by now.

[inthehouse]

Answer It will take at least 2/3 days to clear and check for any possible explosives , 1 month to fix all the damage, and 2 years for travellers to get compensation and 3 years to get some tourist back at least.

Ok, I know here on TV we have all types of experts in the aviation field.

So, my question is assuming the airport is cleared:

-How long would it take to re-open?

-Meaning after cleanups, repairs etc. Does it need to be re-certified as in like when it first opened?

Please list what that would entail. I can't see it going from red light to green light too easily.

This might be a real hassle as prolonging to agony further for travellers.

Sullivans law: "Murphy was an optimist"

[Basil B]

Ok, I know here on TV we have all types of experts in the aviation field.

So, my question is assuming the airport is cleared:

-How long would it take to re-open?

-Meaning after cleanups, repairs etc. Does it need to be re-certified as in like when it first opened?

Please list what that would entail. I can't see it going from red light to green light too easily.

This might be a real hassle as prolonging to agony further for travellers.

Sullivans law: "Murphy was an optimist"

Depends al lot on if the protesters got "air-side" or into any air traffic facility?

[magisterludi]

Who has been inconvenienced by this? Corpulent westerners who want to go home to stuff themselves into a stupor over a holiday weekend? Greedy resort owners on the beaches who have already jacked their prices way beyond the level of service they provide? If your concern is money, this issue transcends money, it is the future of the country at stake.[/font]

You are incredibly narrow minded if you really believe this. Who has been inconvenienced by this?

Staff, business owners at the airport, anybody trying to go to Thailand to make business there and/or spend their money there, any Thai person wanting to do business abroad.

People air shipping out of Thailand or into Thailand, and this doesn't just include rich and powerful business owners (although they too have rights, I imagine you'll agree). I have shipments stuck in Thailand due to be delivered to my customers for Christmas holidays, shipments of goods manufactured by Thai companies, made by thai workers (most of them not wealthy), workers who at least will lose my business if I lose my customer.

Besides, are you really trying to say that foreigners should have no rights in Thailand? Even "corpulent westerners who want to go home to stuff themselves"?? You would be a very scary person if you had any kind of power in Thailand.

Resort owners? What about all the hundreds of thousands of people that work for those resort owners, people who make handicrafts and sell goods, food, etc. for tourists?

I for one am trapped from going back to Thailand, it's costing me money to rearrange my travel and to stay away, I am being forced to stay away from my family. I cannot manage my business. Are you saying I shouldn't have any rights?

And the list could go on. In the end, who will this affect? Regular people in Thailand. Honest people struggling to make a living.

Bah.

[seri thai]

they had it coming for a long time, this has gone way to far.

Thats what Samak said at Thammasat University too. Be careful of the company you keep!

[sezze]

Thought #1: Sondhi says they will shoot back at police. I think that clears it up if they're armed or not. This is an armed hostage taking of the airport. Will someone wake up?

Thought #2: 100,000 tourists who can't leave now. This may grow to 300,000 by Monday. Thailand, grow up. Do something.

Thought #1: Wake up and pay attention, rainman, and quit counting cards! He was talking about the "guards" at the ASTV television station, not the protestors at the airport. Yes, some are probably armed at the airport, too, but you are using the wrong source to describe an armed hostage taking of the airport. Hostages? The travelers are free to leave. They did take one hostage, a police officer.

Thought #2: I agree, something needs to be done. I think the prime minister dissolving parliament will solve it. But other than that, how to solve it peacefully with no innocent bloodshed? A majority of the protestors are unarmed civilians. Grandmothers, women, children, etc. What's your suggestion, other than just for Thailand to grow up?

About thought #2 : In short time notice it will solve some things . The airport will be left alone and everybody will go home . There might be a counteraction by the red community to aim straight to the PAD people moving home . That is however is the short time notice .... long term , fresh elections en PPP will win again . That is the basic fact were i am 100% sure of . So ... where to go from there ... again take over the airport ... stuck in the same situation aren't we ???

If by 3 days from now there is no massive action at the airport then the PM will resign because he wouldn't have enough backing from any force which he needs , but it wouldn't be the solution .

[magisterludi]

Basically he means all have been affected

Who has been inconvenienced by this? Corpulent westerners who want to go home to stuff themselves into a stupor over a holiday weekend? Greedy resort owners on the beaches who have already jacked their prices way beyond the level of service they provide? If your concern is money, this issue transcends money, it is the future of the country at stake.[/font]

You are incredibly narrow minded if you really believe this. Who has been inconvenienced by this?

Staff, business owners at the airport, anybody trying to go to Thailand to make business there and/or spend their money there, any Thai person wanting to do business abroad.

People air shipping out of Thailand or into Thailand, and this doesn't just include rich and powerful business owners (although they too have rights, I imagine you'll agree). I have shipments stuck in Thailand due to be delivered to my customers for Christmas holidays, shipments of goods manufactured by Thai companies, made by thai workers (most of them not wealthy), workers who at least will lose my business if I lose my customer.

Besides, are you really trying to say that foreigners should have no rights in Thailand? Even "corpulent westerners who want to go home to stuff themselves"?? You would be a very scary person if you had any kind of power in Thailand.

Resort owners? What about all the hundreds of thousands of people that work for those resort owners, people who make handicrafts and sell goods, food, etc. for tourists?

I for one am trapped from going back to Thailand, it's costing me money to rearrange my travel and to stay away, I am being forced to stay away from my family. I cannot manage my business. Are you saying I shouldn't have any rights?

And the list could go on. In the end, who will this affect? Regular people in Thailand. Honest people struggling to make a living.

Bah.

Oops. I apologize. I misread the last sentence. Yes, everyone has been affected. (foot in mouth)

[h90]

It looks as if the government(Prime Minister)are quite content too let this farce go on indefinatly just for the attention it gets,any real government would have had these protesters behind bars by now.

Any real government and you wouldn't have these protesters at all.

The government is the reason why the protesters are on the streets

[ArranP]

The situation has escalated, but is not the root-cause the credibility of the election process?

[Windmillresident]

in my humble opinion, this is an on-going struggle between two institutions that will remain nameless of course...ever wondered why some urban middle class people with plastic hand clappers can walk into so many places and just take them over without being touched? Wonder who finances them? The sun's setting on one of the institutions and they don't like it at all...we're caught in the middle of the struggle. Vote buying has been around forever here but it was a good excuse to kick out someone who overstepped their traditional boundaries. Meanwhile the poor remain uneducated and life goes on. I played a wonderful round of golf yesterday and had a totally killer french meal downtown. Now going to a thanksgiving day party...welcome to wacky thai politics. Just my opinion..lol

[Basil B]

Hope I am not repeating.

there is reports on AP of a police officer being abducted by the protesters

I would be a little sceptical about the validity of this claim, it could be propaganda to spook & get the police aggressive.

BB

[hansnl]

I have just heard this from a Thai in the office that they are opening fire on the PAD protesters...

My own view is they have it coming, it is not as if they were not warned !!! .. i hope this makes them think twice about accepting 700 THB a risking their lives for a couple of Thais that cannot accept they didnt make it to power!

"I hope innocent people are not hurt"

You are quite mad to think that innocent people will not be hurt.

"They have it coming, it is not as if they were not warned"

You want to see Thai people killed by other Thai people?

Is that what you want?

You realise this might get out of hand?

Outright war?

[nickynomates]

Just an idea

If there are 300,000 foreigners trapped why don't we all wear say green shirts and go to the airport.

I know bad idea full of holes save the replies.

[digitele]

inthehouse' date='2008-11-29 14:24:05' post='2366163']

Answer It will take at least 2/3 days to clear and check for any possible explosives , 1 month to fix all the damage, and 2 years for travellers to get compensation and 3 years to get some tourist back at least.

Wow.

How about system checks?

Either way, this is realistically looking bleaker and bleaker on only this level.

<deleted>!

[tropo]

Thought #2: 100,000 tourists who can't leave now. This may grow to 300,000 by Monday. Thailand, grow up. Do something.

In actual fact, tourists can leave if they're willing to make an effort. My landlord just "escaped" from Pataya by busing to Cambodia and flying to KL and then on to Hong Kong.

[seri thai]

Basically he means all have been affected

Who has been inconvenienced by this? Corpulent westerners who want to go home to stuff themselves into a stupor over a holiday weekend? Greedy resort owners on the beaches who have already jacked their prices way beyond the level of service they provide? If your concern is money, this issue transcends money, it is the future of the country at stake.[/font]

You are incredibly narrow minded if you really believe this. Who has been inconvenienced by this?

Staff, business owners at the airport, anybody trying to go to Thailand to make business there and/or spend their money there, any Thai person wanting to do business abroad.

People air shipping out of Thailand or into Thailand, and this doesn't just include rich and powerful business owners (although they too have rights, I imagine you'll agree). I have shipments stuck in Thailand due to be delivered to my customers for Christmas holidays, shipments of goods manufactured by Thai companies, made by thai workers (most of them not wealthy), workers who at least will lose my business if I lose my customer.

Besides, are you really trying to say that foreigners should have no rights in Thailand? Even "corpulent westerners who want to go home to stuff themselves"?? You would be a very scary person if you had any kind of power in Thailand.

Resort owners? What about all the hundreds of thousands of people that work for those resort owners, people who make handicrafts and sell goods, food, etc. for tourists?

I for one am trapped from going back to Thailand, it's costing me money to rearrange my travel and to stay away, I am being forced to stay away from my family. I cannot manage my business. Are you saying I shouldn't have any rights?

And the list could go on. In the end, who will this affect? Regular people in Thailand. Honest people struggling to make a living.

Bah.

Many people were more than inconvenienced by the Tsunami in Phuket, by the Twin Towers collapse, by attacks in Mumbai and by worldwide recession. Of course the PAD have inconvenienced people. Actions have consequences on us all and it is human nature to complain about inconvenience. To wish death and destruction on people attempting a non-violent protest because it is an inconvenience. I say attempting because I know there have been confrontations and of course there will be. Perhaps onlokers would just prefer them to self-immolate in an empty field to avoid inconvenience?

If so stand up and take a bow. you should be proud of taking a stand about something of principle.

[old wanderer]

Something that several of the people posting in favor of peaceful protest are forgetting:

The limit of your personal rights and freedom is the place where the personal rights and freedom of other people begins.

You cannot claim your right to protest or any other right while you are stepping on the rights of other people.

Well before you jump into this forum and become so pompous with your posts, the English language you are posting in has a vocabulary of well over 10,00 words. So you should not confuse what is a RIGHT

and what is just a convince, or freedom.

The citizens of this country have the RIGHT to protest against what they perceive as a corrupt, nepotism infected government, the is the defacto product of a convicted and corrupt politician Thaskin Shinnawat.

Furthermore it look like on Tuesday Dec 2, the entire PM party and supporting parties will be banished from politics for 5 years.....WHY??? Corruption, vote buying.

Now if this is not a reason for honest people to exercise their RIGHT to protest, then what is?

Nobody has a RIGHT to catch a flight on time, not have their plans changed due to circumstances....etc.

Freedoms, again are privileges, granted or taken away on the whim of various governments. None of these trump a RIGHT>

[magisterludi]

The situation has escalated, but is not the root-cause the credibility of the election process?

In my opinion, the root-cause is the struggle for power of the wealthiest and most powerful people and institutions in Thailand, who are leading a bunch of cattle (some of them well intentioned no doubt) to the slaughterhouse, and ruining the future (at least the next couple of years) for everyone else in the country.

[jfchandler]

It's getting increasingly difficult to abide with PAD's actions and methods here...

But, were it not for PAD, what else would stand in the way of the current government amending the Constitution, pardoning or otherwise letting a bunch of politician crooks off the hook, and welcoming back to Thailand with open arms the biggest one of them all??? And no, he won't ever be volunteering to serve his jail sentence....

[digitele]

So, my question is assuming the airport is cleared:

-How long would it take to re-open?

-Meaning after cleanups, repairs etc. Does it need to be re-certified as in like when it first opened?

Please list what that would entail. I can't see it going from red light to green light too easily.

This might be a real hassle as prolonging to agony further for travellers.

Sullivans law: "Murphy was an optimist"

Depends al lot on if the protesters got "air-side" or into any air traffic facility?

Ok, let's assume the worst, I mean you would have to right? Then how long?

[esprit]

The situation has escalated, but is not the root-cause the credibility of the election process?

In my opinion, the root-cause is the struggle for power of the wealthiest and most powerful people and institutions in Thailand, who are leading a bunch of cattle (some of them well intentioned no doubt) to the slaughterhouse, and ruining the future (at least the next couple of years) for everyone else in the country.

Excuse me but PPP supporters may be sheep, but not cattle - the latter are of far more use

[Samuian]

It looks as if the government(Prime Minister)are quite content too let this farce go on indefinatly just for the attention it gets,any real government would have had these protesters behind bars by now.

I emphasized "REAL" get it?

Doesn't come to your mind that there might be a wee bit of a reason behind all this - huh?

Just a thought...

The situation has escalated, but is not the root-cause the credibility of the election process?

In my opinion, the root-cause is the struggle for power of the wealthiest and most powerful people and institutions in Thailand, who are leading a bunch of cattle (some of them well intentioned no doubt) to the slaughterhouse, and ruining the future (at least the next couple of years) for everyone else in the country.

Never read a larger heap of quack in the last Minutes or so...

Edited November 29, 2008 by Samuian

[magisterludi]

Basically he means all have been affected

Who has been inconvenienced by this? Corpulent westerners who want to go home to stuff themselves into a stupor over a holiday weekend? Greedy resort owners on the beaches who have already jacked their prices way beyond the level of service they provide? If your concern is money, this issue transcends money, it is the future of the country at stake.[/font]

You are incredibly narrow minded if you really believe this. Who has been inconvenienced by this?

Staff, business owners at the airport, anybody trying to go to Thailand to make business there and/or spend their money there, any Thai person wanting to do business abroad.

People air shipping out of Thailand or into Thailand, and this doesn't just include rich and powerful business owners (although they too have rights, I imagine you'll agree). I have shipments stuck in Thailand due to be delivered to my customers for Christmas holidays, shipments of goods manufactured by Thai companies, made by thai workers (most of them not wealthy), workers who at least will lose my business if I lose my customer.

Besides, are you really trying to say that foreigners should have no rights in Thailand? Even "corpulent westerners who want to go home to stuff themselves"?? You would be a very scary person if you had any kind of power in Thailand.

Resort owners? What about all the hundreds of thousands of people that work for those resort owners, people who make handicrafts and sell goods, food, etc. for tourists?

I for one am trapped from going back to Thailand, it's costing me money to rearrange my travel and to stay away, I am being forced to stay away from my family. I cannot manage my business. Are you saying I shouldn't have any rights?

And the list could go on. In the end, who will this affect? Regular people in Thailand. Honest people struggling to make a living.

Bah.

Many people were more than inconvenienced by the Tsunami in Phuket, by the Twin Towers collapse, by attacks in Mumbai and by worldwide recession. Of course the PAD have inconvenienced people. Actions have consequences on us all and it is human nature to complain about inconvenience. To wish death and destruction on people attempting a non-violent protest because it is an inconvenience. I say attempting because I know there have been confrontations and of course there will be. Perhaps onlokers would just prefer them to self-immolate in an empty field to avoid inconvenience?

If so stand up and take a bow. you should be proud of taking a stand about something of principle.

Self-immolation has been used before as a means to protest. There's a difference between inconveniencing people and committing suicide to prove a point. If any of these people loved Thailand, they wouldn't be destroying it's reputation, tourism and economy with their thoughtless actions. I believe in democracy, but like I said, the rights of one individual finish at the place where the rights of another individual begin. To trample on the rights of others to demand your own rights is not only a contradiction in terms but also a very selfish thing to do.

Regarding principle, I am sure many more people would prefer to have food to take to their families at night.

[tropo]

“They have it coming”? It’s difficult to comprehend why some of you sitting cosy at your computers would say that people in a peaceful demonstration should be shot and killed. These are people who are doing what they believe is the right thing to do to save the future of their country

They are fighting against a government that has bought their way into power through duplicity, lies and vote buying. You would be negligent in your duties as a citizen of your country if you didn’t do everything possible to oust these politicians who corrupt the word democracy and everything it stands for

Where have you been? Please keep up. This airport takeover is not a "peaceful protest".

Sooner or later pro-PAD fools will be hiding their heads in shame.

Vote buying allegations can be taken care of in court just like in any other democratic nation. Please don't use that nonsense as an excuse for these "peaceful protests".

Edited November 29, 2008 by tropo