New Zealand Woman Mauled By Tiger

[ballpoint]

have the ability to simply walk away not always, some are forced to be tourist attractions - hence the word speculation.

So you are telling me that they are locked up like a tiger is?

Being forced--is that "specualtion" on your part, or do you have proof. I am open to any proof you may be able to show.

Even the quote above shows theh situation is not the same. All tigers are held captive. 100%. The quote above says "some" are not able to walk away. Even if we accept that as the absolute truth (and I am not doing that), then the situation is different.

And I think it is fairly demeaning to compare people with animals in this manner.

I am not saying that this is the case with any posters here, but there tends to be a certain elitism professed when dealing with people who may not be as what others consider to be advanced, that they need to be somehow "protected." I have a side buisness of selling Thai silk around the world, and when I tell people about OTOP, and how the silk has allowed people to buy things like motorcycles or televisions, I often get criticized for "letting" people "ruin" their culture, as if adults are not free to make their own decisions on who to spend their money. This implies to me that they think Thai villagers are simply not capable of making rational decisions and need to be protected by more "advanced' westerners.

and obviously, being you, you are impervious to doubt

And you know who I am? You know that I am impervious to doubt? I am glad you know so much about me after reading a couple posts.

But I will tell you this about me. Yes, I think it is the height of arrogance for any western person, a person who has all the trappings of the modern world, to think that they know better and that Thai villagers should not be able to have some of the same things. They wish to keep people locked in the "Noble Savage" mode to keep alive some of their own yearnings. Sorry, but I do not buy it. That is pandering at its greatest. Just because someone is born in a village in Buriram does not mean that they cannot make a decision to buy a television or a motorcycle with the money they have earned.

I did not make any comments akin to those in your last paragraph and would never do so. Get off your high horse.

I certainly was not being demeaning

I said some were not free to leave and was from a UN report . No one says they are slaves in that sense but there is much economic slavery here. And I am on the side of those who have to endure it

If you do a bit of research you'll find that the majority of the long neck tribes are classified as stateless refugees by the Thai authorities, meaning that they are forced to live in certain villages and put up with tourisits photographing them. Many have been accepted for immigration to Australia and Canada, amongst other countries, however the authorities have tied this up in red tape, effectively holding them prisoner in Thailand, despite not giving them citizenship. Why do they do this? Because someone is making money out of the visiting tourists, and it's not the tribesmen and women. I agree, holding a person prisoner in order to make money out of them is a more serious crime than doing so to a wild animal, but remember, even if it is the lessor of two evils it is none the less still evil.

[bonobo]

have the ability to simply walk away not always, some are forced to be tourist attractions - hence the word speculation.

So you are telling me that they are locked up like a tiger is?

Being forced--is that "specualtion" on your part, or do you have proof. I am open to any proof you may be able to show.

Even the quote above shows theh situation is not the same. All tigers are held captive. 100%. The quote above says "some" are not able to walk away. Even if we accept that as the absolute truth (and I am not doing that), then the situation is different.

And I think it is fairly demeaning to compare people with animals in this manner.

I am not saying that this is the case with any posters here, but there tends to be a certain elitism professed when dealing with people who may not be as what others consider to be advanced, that they need to be somehow "protected." I have a side buisness of selling Thai silk around the world, and when I tell people about OTOP, and how the silk has allowed people to buy things like motorcycles or televisions, I often get criticized for "letting" people "ruin" their culture, as if adults are not free to make their own decisions on who to spend their money. This implies to me that they think Thai villagers are simply not capable of making rational decisions and need to be protected by more "advanced' westerners.

and obviously, being you, you are impervious to doubt

And you know who I am? You know that I am impervious to doubt? I am glad you know so much about me after reading a couple posts.

But I will tell you this about me. Yes, I think it is the height of arrogance for any western person, a person who has all the trappings of the modern world, to think that they know better and that Thai villagers should not be able to have some of the same things. They wish to keep people locked in the "Noble Savage" mode to keep alive some of their own yearnings. Sorry, but I do not buy it. That is pandering at its greatest. Just because someone is born in a village in Buriram does not mean that they cannot make a decision to buy a television or a motorcycle with the money they have earned.

I did not make any comments akin to those in your last paragraph and would never do so. Get off your high horse.

I certainly was not being demeaning

I said some were not free to leave and was from a UN report . No one says they are slaves in that sense but there is much economic slavery here. And I am on the side of those who have to endure it

Uh, yes, to you did take exception to my comments akin to my last paragraph.  See your bolded comments above, then your snide remark about me, being me, am impervious to doubt. So you can dismount from your high horse as well. And that was rather demeaning, at least to me.

If some are not free to leave, that is a pretty bad situation. And if the UN states that is so, then there is probably some truth to that.  However, I still hold by my original contention that saying the Long-Neck Karen and the tigers in the zoos are the same is erroneous. Being restricted from travelling is much different than being chained to a stake and drugged to let tourists paw all over you. 

But as Ballpoint writes above, even the lesser of two evils is still evil.

[Moonrakers]

How did this thread get from some Kiwi chick being mailed by a Tiger to the Long-Neck Karen?

[Kan Win]

The Photo is overexposed leading to me thinking that a flash was used.

Also notice where the lady's left am is hanging down Pancake’s back. Could she have touched something down there?

<snipped the photo>

Is it just me? As to me this tiger already looks pretty irritated and the lady doesn't have a clue.

The tiger looks the lady in the face, what does that mean in the tiger 'language'? I know in the dog language it means 'back off'. In other words, with dogs in their language it can be a clear warning.

Then the lady has one arm over the tiger. How do tigers receive this? Again with dogs I know that many don't appreciate it when strangers do that to them. And when warning doesn't work a bite can follow.

Touching the head and whithers of dominant dogs is a no-no. How is this with tigers?

absolutly right, nienke. your questions are i think rhetorical but to answer them.m tigers have it in spades

Partly rhetorical, partly I really am interested in the ways animals speak. Time to read/study the few books I have on cat language/behavior.

I still have one of your books on Cats Nieke! Confess to not having read it all through yet.

What little i know about cat behaviour (which I have no idea if relates to Tiger behaviour) is to watch out for some things like tail twitching, this is the first sign of mild annoyance and a warning, if you continue to the point where their tails start wagging/swishing/banging, then be prepared to receive a scratch or bite. If you stare a cat in the eyes, its a challenge. Cats wink/blink and narrow their eyes into slits when they view you as a non-threat and feel relaxed and comfortable. If you get an outright stare, then back off, because they feel intimidated. Ears pulled back are another sign of them feeling threatened (this is a getting ready to fight pose, as they are protecting a prone area) and they will react strongly if you try to touch them. Dont pet their lower bodies unless the animal knows you well, is feeling very relaxed, or is very domesticated. Particularly do not do this if they are relaxing and not so aware of you as they can instinctively react . Hovering a had over their face/head is also going to provoke a reaction in the same way. They like slow gentle movements and soft sounds. Also cats are very playful and seem to turn simple things like a piece of string into an imagined snake or something equally weird to "prey" upon or attack. Its really easy to get a scratch or nip just from a playful domestic cat.

Im sure the kitty experts on the board will be able to offer more, but thats some basics i can think of.

Makes me think what really happened at the time the photo was taken.

Note: A big Thank You, to "eek" and "Nienke" for the info and good posts as usual from both of you.

Yours truly,

Kan Win

[sendbaht]

Animals like tigers should be left alone and not harrassed by tourists such as Ruth. Operators of facilities such as this should be prosecuted and the practice banned. Unfortunately, there is too much money involved and a lot of influential people, and even monks use wild animals to raise money.

This practice is no different from taking tourists to Long-Neck Karen villages. Sad! Really Sad!

2nd that.

Well said too.

I 2nd that also and add, ( I find) eatting animals is strange too.

[toret]

Animals like tigers should be left alone and not harrassed by tourists such as Ruth. Operators of facilities such as this should be prosecuted and the practice banned. Unfortunately, there is too much money involved and a lot of influential people, and even monks use wild animals to raise money.

This practice is no different from taking tourists to Long-Neck Karen villages. Sad! Really Sad!

I totally agree. But sadly this is part of the legacy of that australian w*nker who made a big TV-show out of disturbing animals in their natural habitat and in the end got what he had coming.

[tw25rw]

Ruth Corlett with Pancake the tiger just before the attack.

New Zealand Herald

NZ aid worker mauled in Thai tiger enclosure

A New Zealand woman is in hospital after being mauled by a tiger in Thailand. Ruth Corlett, 45, was at an enclosure on Sunday with her family when the female tiger jumped at her and bit her leg.

Even tigers hate their stupid accent!

[spongeman]

Pancake was probably so juiced up to his eyeballs that when he say the Nz bird he saw a huge steak with all the trimmings.

And for her next trick...........she will swim in a tank of domesticated piranahas

[jackr]

Ruth Corlett with Pancake the tiger just before the attack.

New Zealand Herald

NZ aid worker mauled in Thai tiger enclosure

A New Zealand woman is in hospital after being mauled by a tiger in Thailand. Ruth Corlett, 45, was at an enclosure on Sunday with her family when the female tiger jumped at her and bit her leg.

Even tigers hate their stupid accent!

Even more so than cockney rhyming slang, gov?

[bonobo]

Animals like tigers should be left alone and not harrassed by tourists such as Ruth. Operators of facilities such as this should be prosecuted and the practice banned. Unfortunately, there is too much money involved and a lot of influential people, and even monks use wild animals to raise money.

This practice is no different from taking tourists to Long-Neck Karen villages. Sad! Really Sad!

I totally agree. But sadly this is part of the legacy of that australian w*nker who made a big TV-show out of disturbing animals in their natural habitat and in the end got what he had coming.

It is a pretty sad commentary when a poster writes that a person "got what he had coming." While I understand what you mean about disturbing animals, Steve Irwin never-the-less had a love of the natural world and I dare say had a net good by getting people to focus on the environment and the needs of animals in the wild. He hardly "deserved" to die.

Just as Ruth Corlett did not "deserve" to be bitten by Pancake, and many posters here have either written straight out or insinuated. This is certainly not Pancake's fault, who merely acted out in her natural way to an unnatural situation for her. But Ruth was one of thousands of tourists who put their trust in the various tourist destinations each and every day of the year.

For those who write that the practice itself is at fault, well, I can go along with that. It is unnatural, and I do feel guilt for having done it myself once. Blame the tiger parks, but not Ruth nor Pancake (nor Steve Irwin.) Have a little empathy for them all.

[sriracha john]

TV3 Video News Story

Link:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/multimedia/tv/world/17785.html

Edited January 30, 2009 by sriracha john

[Shazza]

Kia Ora mates... being endowed with a stupid accent, I would just like to say that as a newbie here, I'm not sure if it's ok to call the person who made that comment a dork? If it's not, please forgive me...

Hey, these tourist attractions aren't all that great, I can't stand the elephants playing harmonicas myself, but when I see how the babies are being brought up, with love and attention and enough food and a wonderful habitat, well, then it seems to make it all worthwhile really.

My friend Ruth, by the way, is doing really well, her accent is intact to annoy another day and she still thinks tigers are cool.

[Pakeha]

Maybe she should have been warned that Tigers are wild animals... from the NZ Herald...

Tigers on the prowl

6:15AM Saturday Jan 31, 2009

Tigers have killed at least three children and four adults in north India in recent weeks, officials said yesterday, forcing frightened villagers to stay indoors while forest rangers search for the wild cats.

Authorities wielding guns combed villages surrounding the Dudhwa Tiger Reserve in the state of Uttar Pradesh, from which seven tigers are believed to have strayed.

One of the tigers is believed to have killed at least four people in the last two weeks, including three children between the ages of 8 and 15.

[Pakeha]

And this just in from the NZ Herald...

Tiger-taming teacher also involved in canyon tragedy

The Auckland teacher who intervened in a tiger attack was one of the heroes of the Elim School canyoning tragedy.

Daniel Charman watched in horror last weekend as his friend Ruth Corlett was bitten on the leg by a tiger at a Thai tourist venue that allows people to get close to tigers which are supposedly domesticated and trained.

But moments after Mrs Corlett posed for a photograph with a tiger it leapt up and mauled her leg before trying to drag her away.

"It raised its head and looked over at Ruth ... then it just lunged," Mr Charman told the Weekend Herald yesterday.

As the tiger tried to pull her away, Mrs Corlett grabbed hold of his leg. "I'm a big guy and I never thought I'd say it, but it's nice to be big - my weight probably kept us both from being dragged away," he said.

The tiger was still clamped down on Mrs Corlett's leg so he reached out and grabbed its head.

"Looking back, it seems a bit thick but I tried to grapple this tiger's mouth open. I wasn't really yanking it open but sort of tried to prise its [mouth] open." He acted because no one else seemed to be doing anything to save Mrs Corlett.

"It was one of those moments where everyone was doing nothing. I didn't see anyone do anything, they were just backing away. There were no screams or yells or anything." The trainer did return and hit the tiger on the head, making it release Mrs Corlett.

"Maybe again it was just an instinct thing but it was just that they [centre staff] were so unprepared that I looked at Ruth's leg and I knew from her groans that this was heavy stuff. I told her to get on my shoulders and we got out of the enclosure."

She was taken to hospital where she needed 54 stitches to close the wound.

Mr Charman said he couldn't believe he had found himself in another dangerous situation so soon after the Elim Christian School tragedy at Mangatepopo.

[TAWP]

If anything at least she knows she has a good friend in Daniel Charman.

[dinthailand]

Kia Ora mates... being endowed with a stupid accent, I would just like to say that as a newbie here, I'm not sure if it's ok to call the person who made that comment a dork? If it's not, please forgive me...

Hey, these tourist attractions aren't all that great, I can't stand the elephants playing harmonicas myself, but when I see how the babies are being brought up, with love and attention and enough food and a wonderful habitat, well, then it seems to make it all worthwhile really.

My friend Ruth, by the way, is doing really well, her accent is intact to annoy another day and she still thinks tigers are cool.

Cool? Maybe that is good for her ego but Pancake is a wild animal and should have been treated with more respect. She may rethink too how her actions and the actions of those like her are encouraging and perpetuating this money-grabbing show at the expense of animal respect and safety.

I'm glad she's doing well. She is one hel_l of a lucky lady. Let's hope she learns from this and does something to correct the thai attitude that pervades here.

[dinthailand]

Maybe she should have been warned that Tigers are wild animals... from the NZ Herald...

Tigers on the prowl

6:15AM Saturday Jan 31, 2009

Tigers have killed at least three children and four adults in north India in recent weeks, officials said yesterday, forcing frightened villagers to stay indoors while forest rangers search for the wild cats.

Authorities wielding guns combed villages surrounding the Dudhwa Tiger Reserve in the state of Uttar Pradesh, from which seven tigers are believed to have strayed.

One of the tigers is believed to have killed at least four people in the last two weeks, including three children between the ages of 8 and 15.

No need to warn her about tigers - I think she's learned something from the experience.

There is a crocodile park I believe in samut Prakan, so maybe a warning that they are wild and eat humans may be pertinent. Other posters may have other warnings.

Though perhaps, just perhaps, instead of issuing loads of warnings, just suggesting common sense is used might work.

she's been lucky. i'm glad she's ok. let her now discourage others from supporting these shows.

[HorseDoctor]

There's a lot of things about Thais I cannot stand , but the attitude against animals is the worst.

Abuse , neglect , exploit and then skin it alive and BBQ it.

I went to one of those elephant " Sanctuaries" near Chang Mai. What a despicable tourist trap. Sanctuary? Since when is getting hit on the head repeatedy any form of sanctuary?

I've been told by vet that the baby elephants, Lily and Lucky that are exploited on the local beaches by the " Socially conscious"( by Singpore standards ? ) Laguna resort at Bang Tao are way too young to be separated from mother's milk and that often the elephant mother is shot to facilitate tearing her baby away.

And the Laguna stable...ugh. Horses that were that were death standing-barely. Actually one had hooves so distorted, he couldn't stand . I believe he actually starved to death. In the UK or US those owners would have done jail time and never, ever been allowed to own horses again ...( Yeah I have pics )

Just disgusting...heart breaking If most tourists knew, I really think they'd pick another destination..

Mmmm

What happened to the Dept store in Bangkok that was keeping tigers in a small cement enclosure ? I think locking any creature in a cell is abuse.

I stopped buying from a local pet store after it started carrying birds, last week I see they have an eagle suffering in the hot sun, can't even spread his clipped wings in the tiny cage he's in.

Edited February 1, 2009 by HorseDoctor

[dinthailand]

Now that the media hype has died down, we are back to normal.

Business as usual at Tiger Kingdom. Business comes first of course

Safety issues not addressed

Everyone has forgotten the issues raised here on whether this type of business should be allowed. Until the next time when we will get the same posters making the same points and going off on tangents on animal language when the issue was the victim's health and the rights of animals over the right to make lots of money through a disrespected practice.

[Gumballl]

...

For those who write that the practice itself is at fault, well, I can go along with that. It is unnatural, and I do feel guilt for having done it myself once. Blame the tiger parks, but not Ruth nor Pancake (nor Steve Irwin.) Have a little empathy for them all.

No way; I blame the jokers that put themselves in danger. They get what they deserve for being stupid. Carlos Mencia sums this up quite well in his

where it begins with a reference to the Siegfreid & Roy ordeal with the white tiger (from a few years past), and then talks about other insanities.

P.S. Don't watch the video if you are a sensitive type.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Gumballl

[toret]

It is a pretty sad commentary when a poster writes that a person "got what he had coming." While I understand what you mean about disturbing animals, Steve Irwin never-the-less had a love of the natural world and I dare say had a net good by getting people to focus on the environment and the needs of animals in the wild. He hardly "deserved" to die.

The thing I thought was most disgusting about Steve Irwin, is that he de facto was teaching a whole generation of kids that it's ok to mess around with wild animals, swinging them around, disturbing their natural life... Sad. Very sad.

So in my eyes, what he did for nature vas a huge net bad. But of course good for his ego, his wallet and Animal Planet.

[tw25rw]

Ruth Corlett with Pancake the tiger just before the attack.

New Zealand Herald

NZ aid worker mauled in Thai tiger enclosure

A New Zealand woman is in hospital after being mauled by a tiger in Thailand. Ruth Corlett, 45, was at an enclosure on Sunday with her family when the female tiger jumped at her and bit her leg.

Even tigers hate their stupid accent!

Even more so than cockney rhyming slang, gov?

About the same.

[KMixon]

It does seem quite silly to want to sue the place. It is a wild animal. I'm glad it was only a bite on the leg. She should feel lucky.

After reading about how these tigers are treated poorly and now this, my mind has been made up. We will NOT be visiting one of these Tiger "sanctuaries".

[Thai at Heart]

Dangerous business, naive tourists, man (also woman and children) eating animal, sign a disclaimer and put yourself in the trust of a zoo keeper. What a recipe for disaster.

Would you put your face/body in the same proximity to a cobra?

And I thought bungee jumping in Africa was reckless.

Edited February 13, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[denny1000]

The ignorance of people never fails to amaze me.

While they had the woman in the hospital they should have checked out her brain. If any.