mc2 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Khun Thaksin will go down in history as one of the most demonized and unjustly treated people of our time. Hopefully the next election will put things back in order. "A human rights abuser of the worst kind". Cant remember if it si the words of Amnesty or HRW. Hard to over demonize one of those anyway. Time and time again HRW blows things out of all proportion, this is a prime example. They are irresponsible with their words, and as a result lose respect from the more informed audience. Quite a bizarre statement. HRW have been criticized over not covering certain abuses worldwide and maybe with some merit. However, except for the offending governments and there apologists I have not heard criticism of them for pointing out gross human rights abuses and indeed the extra judicial deaths of 2700+ (some claim a higher number) people in Thailand during the so called drug war together with certain incidents in the South of Thailand are going to be described as gross human rights abuses by most. The irony or hypocrisy in a "human rights abuser of the worst kind" vowing to fight for his own personal justice as though he holds the ideal of democracy and justice so high is complete when he was the head of a government that denied justice of even the most rudimentary kind to so many. International decisions have found time and again that the head of the government is responsible for the policies, so no excuses there either. Having said that Thaksin is entitled to his day in court even if he denied that right to others That Thaksin did anything good for anyone or was elected while true do not in any way diminish his hideous human rights record, his willingness to deny justice to others and his ultimate culpability for his governments policies. I would suggest that the above is more the opinion of the informed audience. Maybe we should regard the slaughter conducted by Pinochet as blown out of proportion (according to the official Chilean Report the number of dead is remakably close to the number Thaksin managed to crank up). "human rights abuser of the worst kind" worst is a superlative , people like mugabe , some african war lords killing raping pillaging communities, plenty of ruthless cruel dictators in the world ..... and THaksin gets lumped in with these lot ? what a joke by HRW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 lol .. guys why even try and discuss Thailand and politics with an oft banned guy in the UK that pretends to get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 lol .. guys why even try and discuss Thailand and politics with an oft banned guy in the UK that pretends to get it? how did you know I am from the UK ? can you see my IP ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSnake Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Thaksin vows to fight on for justiceFormer prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra vowed Saturday night that he will not give up but will continue to fight along side his red-shirted supporters for justice. He was making a phone-in address to some 20,000 supporters who gathered at fund raising dinner at Wat Phai Khiew temple in Don Mueang district at 7:30 pm. He thanked his supporters for go on fighting for him and he would never give up until he receives justice and until real democracy returns to the country. "I would like to thank you all for standing by me. I'll fight along you. I will not give up as long as justice has not returned and democracy ha s not returned," Thaksin said. "I don't wan to look for trouble but I am seeking for justice. Now, the situation has come to its worst. And I was the first one to become a victim so I'll seek the truth along with you." -- The Nation 2009-02-15 Come on back Mr Thaskin and face the courts like a man, you are hiding in the dark like a coward. Answer new PM request, don't stir trouble from afar, bet is with a team of great lawyers you could clear your name, the wife almost came clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Khun Thaksin will go down in history as one of the most demonized and unjustly treated people of our time. Hopefully the next election will put things back in order. "A human rights abuser of the worst kind". Cant remember if it si the words of Amnesty or HRW. Hard to over demonize one of those anyway. Time and time again HRW blows things out of all proportion, this is a prime example. They are irresponsible with their words, and as a result lose respect from the more informed audience. Quite a bizarre statement. HRW have been criticized over not covering certain abuses worldwide and maybe with some merit. However, except for the offending governments and there apologists I have not heard criticism of them for pointing out gross human rights abuses and indeed the extra judicial deaths of 2700+ (some claim a higher number) people in Thailand during the so called drug war together with certain incidents in the South of Thailand are going to be described as gross human rights abuses by most. The irony or hypocrisy in a "human rights abuser of the worst kind" vowing to fight for his own personal justice as though he holds the ideal of democracy and justice so high is complete when he was the head of a government that denied justice of even the most rudimentary kind to so many. International decisions have found time and again that the head of the government is responsible for the policies, so no excuses there either. Having said that Thaksin is entitled to his day in court even if he denied that right to others That Thaksin did anything good for anyone or was elected while true do not in any way diminish his hideous human rights record, his willingness to deny justice to others and his ultimate culpability for his governments policies. I would suggest that the above is more the opinion of the informed audience. Maybe we should regard the slaughter conducted by Pinochet as blown out of proportion (according to the official Chilean Report the number of dead is remakably close to the number Thaksin managed to crank up). "human rights abuser of the worst kind" worst is a superlative , people like mugabe , some african war lords killing raping pillaging communities, plenty of ruthless cruel dictators in the world ..... and THaksin gets lumped in with these lot ? what a joke by HRW So its Ok to have 2700+ people denied their day in court and killed by extra-judicial means as long as you arent as bad as Mugabe or some dudes floating around Africa? Having people killed is a human rights abuse of the worst kind. What you are talking about is just degree of how many get killed when including warlords etc. Life is a basic human right if there is a basic human right. Lesser forms of human rights abuse may be denial of freedom of speech, denial of freedom of travel or even imprisonmment without trial etc things that do not inolve death. Still if you want to spend all your time finding ways to apologize for Thaksin I suppose there is little point taking this further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryalleman Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Khun Thaksin will go down in history as one of the most demonized and unjustly treated people of our time. My heart bleeds. LOL .. yeah a convicted felon is just misunderstood its no big secret that in Thailand the ju.......ary works for whoever is in power or has the 'power' at any particular time If he really intend to fight for justice he only have to come back to Thailand and go to court. And if he don't trust the Thai juridical system why in heaven's name he recently filed a law suit for slander. More and more he start to sound like Calimero. " I am small and they are big this is not honest" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I wouldn't quote mc2's baiting posts about the courts in Thailand as those posts are violating forum rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Khun Thaksin will go down in history as one of the most demonized and unjustly treated people of our time. My heart bleeds. LOL .. yeah a convicted felon is just misunderstood its no big secret that in Thailand the ju.......ary works for whoever is in power or has the 'power' at any particular time If he really intend to fight for justice he only have to come back to Thailand and go to court. And if he don't trust the Thai juridical system why in heaven's name he recently filed a law suit for slander. its like thaksin is in a boxing match where the opponent has lead in their gloves and the ref is biased. he is making do with what he has got and hoping something connects. they did slander him by the way , and it was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 So its Ok to have 2700+ people denied their day in court and killed by extra-judicial means as long as you arent as bad as Mugabe or some dudes floating around Africa? Having people killed is a human rights abuse of the worst kind. What you are talking about is just degree of how many get killed when including warlords etc. Life is a basic human right if there is a basic human right. Lesser forms of human rights abuse may be denial of freedom of speech, denial of freedom of travel or even imprisonmment without trial etc things that do not inolve death. Still if you want to spend all your time finding ways to apologize for Thaksin I suppose there is little point taking this further. sorry if I came across a bit harsh. anyhow I just don't agree with you on a number of point, we can agree to disagree. thats fine. i have said all I wanted to say on the matter for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 So its Ok to have 2700+ people denied their day in court and killed by extra-judicial means as long as you arent as bad as Mugabe or some dudes floating around Africa? Having people killed is a human rights abuse of the worst kind. What you are talking about is just degree of how many get killed when including warlords etc. Life is a basic human right if there is a basic human right. Lesser forms of human rights abuse may be denial of freedom of speech, denial of freedom of travel or even imprisonmment without trial etc things that do not inolve death. Still if you want to spend all your time finding ways to apologize for Thaksin I suppose there is little point taking this further. sorry if I came across a bit harsh. anyhow I just don't agree with you on a number of point, we can agree to disagree. thats fine. i have said all I wanted to say on the matter for now. Disagree is fine by me Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer108 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 for all his mistakes, Thailand was better off on the whole when he was around, compared to all goverments that came after or before him. Would you care to back that up with specifics? I've lived in Thailand through the following administrations: Tanin Kraivixien Kriangsak Chomanan Prem Tinsulanonda Chatichai Choonhavan Anand Panyarachun Suchinda Kraprayoon Chuan Leekpai Banharn Silapa-Archa Chavalit Yongchaiyudh Thaksin Shinawatra Surayud Chulanont Samak Sundaravej Somchai Wongsawat Abhisit Vejjajiva Personally I found Thaksin the most disagreeable of the lot. First his daily demeanour rubbed many of us the wrong way, the way he was constantly barking at his critics while refusing to discuss the actual issues at hand ('The UN is not my father,' etc) being divisive rather than inclusive or conciliatory, combining social puritanism (putting at least 10,000 Thais out of work with the early closings of entertainment venues) with Thai nationalism (eg, denying all applications for permanent residency in the first two years of office) and personally meddling in legistlation which was not a responsibility of the executive branch (so many examples here it would take an entire page to list them; micro-management at its worst). Larger issues were his general disregard for human rights, including the apparent condoning of extra-judicial killings in the drug wars and in the South, his further destabilisation of the South by replacing army control with police control simply based on cronyism rather than the region's best interests. his thorough trampling of press freedom (being the first in recent years to evoke lese majeste with regard to Western journalists), and finally his smoke-and-mirrors Thaksinomics, which brought the economy to the brink of collapse though loose credit, creating higher national debt and the highest rate of NPLs since 1996, which played a large role in the 97 collapse. That's not even to mention the levels of personal corruption, eg parcelling out his assets to his maid, driver and children to escape assets inspection upon running for office, and goosing legislation so that he could sell ShinCorp withough paying capital gains taxes four days after he got the law passed, using visits abroad to further his personal business interests, all the while refusing to give any reason at all as to why these trips were necessary or in the national interest. Other PMs were corrupt as well but none of them, as far as I know, combined such high levels of corruption with such brazen disregard for Thailand's image, the image of the PM's office and for human rights in general. Some of our previous PMs are difficult to judge since they were in power so briefly, or served merely as transitional caretakers (eg, Banharn, Chavalit, Anand, Suchinda, Samak, Somchai). My personal favourite administrations - presiding over relatively peaceful years and steady economies - were those led by Prem, Chatichai and Chuan. In my book at least Thaksin comes at the bottom of the list of the long-termers. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 So its Ok to have 2700+ people denied their day in court and killed by extra-judicial means as long as you arent as bad as Mugabe or some dudes floating around Africa? Having people killed is a human rights abuse of the worst kind. What you are talking about is just degree of how many get killed when including warlords etc. Life is a basic human right if there is a basic human right. Lesser forms of human rights abuse may be denial of freedom of speech, denial of freedom of travel or even imprisonmment without trial etc things that do not inolve death. Still if you want to spend all your time finding ways to apologize for Thaksin I suppose there is little point taking this further. Only half of them were denied the trial in court, as the other half, didn't had anything to do with drugs. Just bystander or unwanted people. Half of the dead people had nothing to do with narcotics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer108 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Khun Thaksin will go down in history as one of the most demonized and unjustly treated people of our time. Hopefully the next election will put things back in order. "A human rights abuser of the worst kind". Cant remember if it si the words of Amnesty or HRW. Hard to over demonize one of those anyway. Time and time again HRW blows things out of all proportion, this is a prime example. They are irresponsible with their words, and as a result lose respect from the more informed audience. Quite a bizarre statement. HRW have been criticized over not covering certain abuses worldwide and maybe with some merit. However, except for the offending governments and there apologists I have not heard criticism of them for pointing out gross human rights abuses and indeed the extra judicial deaths of 2700+ (some claim a higher number) people in Thailand during the so called drug war together with certain incidents in the South of Thailand are going to be described as gross human rights abuses by most. The irony or hypocrisy in a "human rights abuser of the worst kind" vowing to fight for his own personal justice as though he holds the ideal of democracy and justice so high is complete when he was the head of a government that denied justice of even the most rudimentary kind to so many. International decisions have found time and again that the head of the government is responsible for the policies, so no excuses there either. Having said that Thaksin is entitled to his day in court even if he denied that right to others That Thaksin did anything good for anyone or was elected while true do not in any way diminish his hideous human rights record, his willingness to deny justice to others and his ultimate culpability for his governments policies. I would suggest that the above is more the opinion of the informed audience. Maybe we should regard the slaughter conducted by Pinochet as blown out of proportion (according to the official Chilean Report the number of dead is remakably close to the number Thaksin managed to crank up). "human rights abuser of the worst kind" worst is a superlative , people like mugabe , some african war lords killing raping pillaging communities, plenty of ruthless cruel dictators in the world ..... and THaksin gets lumped in with these lot ? what a joke by HRW Would you plead to a lesser charge of worst human rights abuser in Thailand since the 1950s? I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 for all his mistakes, Thailand was better off on the whole when he was around, compared to all goverments that came after or before him. Would you care to back that up with specifics? I've lived in Thailand through the following administrations: Tanin Kraivixien Kriangsak Chomanan Prem Tinsulanonda Chatichai Choonhavan Anand Panyarachun Suchinda Kraprayoon Chuan Leekpai Banharn Silapa-Archa Chavalit Yongchaiyudh Thaksin Shinawatra Surayud Chulanont Samak Sundaravej Somchai Wongsawat Abhisit Vejjajiva Personally I found Thaksin the most disagreeable of the lot. First his daily demeanour rubbed many of us the wrong way, the way he was constantly barking at his critics while refusing to discuss the actual issues at hand ('The UN is not my father,' etc) being divisive rather than inclusive or conciliatory, combining social puritanism (putting at least 10,000 Thais out of work with the early closings of entertainment venues) with Thai nationalism (eg, denying all applications for permanent residency in the first two years of office) and personally meddling in legistlation which was not a responsibility of the executive branch (so many examples here it would take an entire page to list them; micro-management at its worst). Larger issues were his general disregard for human rights, including the apparent condoning of extra-judicial killings in the drug wars and in the South, his further destabilisation of the South by replacing army control with police control simply based on cronyism rather than the region's best interests. his thorough trampling of press freedom (being the first in recent years to evoke lese majeste with regard to Western journalists), and finally his smoke-and-mirrors Thaksinomics, which brought the economy to the brink of collapse though loose credit, creating higher national debt and the highest rate of NPLs since 1996, which played a large role in the 97 collapse. That's not even to mention the levels of personal corruption, eg parcelling out his assets to his maid, driver and children to escape assets inspection upon running for office, and goosing legislation so that he could sell ShinCorp withough paying capital gains taxes four days after he got the law passed, using visits abroad to further his personal business interests, all the while refusing to give any reason at all as to why these trips were necessary or in the national interest. Other PMs were corrupt as well but none of them, as far as I know, combined such high levels of corruption with such brazen disregard for Thailand's image, the image of the PM's office and for human rights in general. Some of our previous PMs are difficult to judge since they were in power so briefly, or served merely as transitional caretakers (eg, Banharn, Chavalit, Anand, Suchinda, Samak, Somchai). My personal favourite administrations - presiding over relatively peaceful years and steady economies - were those led by Prem, Chatichai and Chuan. In my book at least Thaksin comes at the bottom of the list of the long-termers. YMMV. I couldn't agree more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 If Thaksin was any good he wouldn't have pissed off half the country. The general uprising against his regime was a natural reaction and all current charges against him come from the period when he steamrolled all elements of the justice system. It's not like we just discovered Ratchada or Burmese loan deals or Shin shenanigans. Finally someone can do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 a teacher stealing pens is NOT on the same level with the Prime Minister ripping off the country.Not to mention that the teacher stealing pens has not been convicted of anything, committed a felony, or had the power to be abused! So what you're saying then...(to use your favourite phrase). is Its okay to be a thief, as long as its only small items, and you don't get convicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryalleman Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 ^^I meant as a whole. you cant make everybody happy all of the time.yes he had his flaws but put it all in perspective. I have the highest respect for you, trying to defend the things who are impossible to defend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpoint Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 a teacher stealing pens is NOT on the same level with the Prime Minister ripping off the country.Not to mention that the teacher stealing pens has not been convicted of anything, committed a felony, or had the power to be abused! So what you're saying then...(to use your favourite phrase). is Its okay to be a thief, as long as its only small items, and you don't get convicted. And what you're saying is Thaksin shouldn't be convicted because teachers are stealing pens and getting away with it. Now, someone tell me what I'm saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 a teacher stealing pens is NOT on the same level with the Prime Minister ripping off the country.Not to mention that the teacher stealing pens has not been convicted of anything, committed a felony, or had the power to be abused! So what you're saying then...(to use your favourite phrase). is Its okay to be a thief, as long as its only small items, and you don't get convicted. No .. what I am saying is that 1) a teacher is NOT a Prime Minister and 2) a misdemeanor is not a Felony (or the local equivalent) You are building a straw man argument with the assumption that everyone steals (not true) and that all thefts are the same (also not true in the eyes of the law) The fact that Thaksin was CONVICTED by a judiciary that was established just for political figures and that laws for political figures hold them to a higher standard than the rest of the mere mortals are held to SHOULD explain that to you. Instead you just continue to apologize for a convicted felon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miserere Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Khun Thaksin will go down in history as one of the most demonized and unjustly treated people of our time. what about Gary Glitter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacknDanny Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Khun Thaksin will go down in history as one of the most demonized and unjustly treated people of our time. what about Gary Glitter? OK. Thaksin and his dreams are in the Gary Glitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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