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Expat Developer Shot Dead In Patong


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about 5 yrs ago, a francis from phuket came to seek an eight digits real estate coastal developmental loan in usd. the transaction was not consumated because of the legal title of the property. he was straight forward and his thai wife was also a very sharp lady. just want to say a few positive words on his behalf and of course it was quite a few years ago.

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The fact is

life is cheap here

In Thailand, we believe in vigilante = ศาลเตี้ย

we don't go to the courts of law = ศาลสูง = ศาลชั้นต้น/ศาลอุทธรณ์/ศาลฎีกา

Thai schools of Law are not popular .... just ***nothing at all*** comparing to the school of medicine/bzyness/finanace etc...

Lawyers are considered to be in the Low-to-Average/Moderate class

I am Thai and I DO NOT trust "The police department & Justice system of TH"

-------------------------

Are you sure? Maybe it is different for foreigners living in Thailand. Because I can tell you a story. Some years ago I had a problem with a Euro sleaze in Bangkok, I won't go into details. I am not a newcomer to Thailand, and I do business there (plenty of opportunity for foreigners by the way, despite what others say in this thread). I am not Thai. I contacted the Euro by phone. He says this mumbo-jumbo about the Thai mafia and all his connections, blah blah blah. He says if I mess with him, I should probably just, you know, fear for my life!! <deleted>.

I just had my good friend who is the owner of a large business tell me the name of his LAWYER. This lawyer went to Harvard. I paid the lawyer only US$1500. The lawyer did background on the case and sent sleazy Euro a formal letter. Sleazy Euro DISAPPEARED as a problem for me and my business. I saw him a year later and he was probably still working his scams but against other people, not me. Thanks to my lawyer. Who is prestigious and well educated.

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Real estate has also been a tricky business. Even the most successful of developers today often got their start doing transactions that could be described as sleazy. Tell me something I didn't know. Still doesn't justify wacking a guy like this.

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Canadian gunned down on his birthday

When contacted by the Gazette today, an official at the Canadian Embassy cited legal reasons in declining to give any information about the case.

-- Phuket Gazette 2009-02-20

As someone who had the unfortunate experience of a dear one pass on in Phuket,

I know from experience that the Thai police and hospital staff were professional, caring and extremely kind.

Their expertise learned since the Tsunami and professionalism was extremely comforting and I will always be thankful to many people in Phuket.

The stupidity and unprofessionalism came from the Canadian Embassy and the DFAIT.

I advise the Canadian family to trust the Thai officials, Thai hospital and tell the Canadian Embassy losers to go back to their boring daily lives watching the second hand on the clock tick away...

I will always return to Phuket and have many times since as the kindness and smiles of the Thais in Phuket are something that I will always respect and be thankful for.

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Scarey, life is cheap in Thailand.

I have been saying the same thing for years. Most Thais never think past the here and now, which is a lot of the problem. Attitudes towards farang have really changed since I first moved to the kingdom in 1994. It seems we were once a novelty; now we are becoming pests :-p

Edited by ngeean
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Overgeneralizing can be a slippery slope argument,however I appreciate your information and enjoyed reading your post.In general some thai women are scammers in varying degrees..as are a certain percentage of all peoples in all countries..before my thai wife,I had several thai girlfriends of various degrees of "shadiness" from white ish to darker,for lack of better words.I know of an example of a guy In Canada whose wife just stays in Thailand after her Canadian citizenship was finalized in 2006.He sends her money and she meets other farang boyfriends in her area of Thailand.I would never tell this guy because he has his head in the "sand".He knows pretty well anyway.There are many good conservative thai woman too.Once some of the bar girls have been working in the bars for too long,they can get jaded by the whole lifestyle.. by the lowest common denominator of farang drunks and sex tourists,then they may develop a bit of a drinking problem.You can take the girl out of the bar...but perhaps you can't take the bar out of the girl.I am not denigrating bar girls at all,most are trying to help their families.I wanted to meet a Conservative,educated,jai dee,hard working,attractive(duh)thai lady and get to know her family well.Many of us farang believe our wives love us,but we are also aware that things can turn on a dime for any number of reasons.We are all somewhat deluded at times.This poor man's very unfortunate killing could have been avoided by him making different and possibly better life choices.We all make mistakes,and I just wish he had done things differently.Us farang can learn from this tragedy.In Thailand I like to be somewhat humble and show people that you care through actions,and it's likely you'll have few if any enemies.

It's difficult to NOT speculate, since there are sooo many stories about idiot westerners that truly believe that his thai girlfriend of wife really love their him. This is a country were money is more worth than real love. They don't love the way we look, are or behave. The only reason 80% us who lives here in LOS are having a thai woman, is because these women are poor. (or at least they want more without having to work their ass off for it). Equally... The guys that think they can buy someone's heart and love with money, really deserves these women. They deserves each other.

Last week my wife spoke to a woman that she haven't met for about five years. The woman told her story. She was tired tired of her thai boyfriend and then went to Phuket in order to find a farang that could take her abroad. That was the plan she had staked out. Finally she found one who took her to Europe and married her. (would he ever marry a hooker in his own country? probably not.) She stayed in Europe a couple of years. She also had a child with him. (besides the two she already had with her earlier thai boyfriend.) Then suddenly one day he discovered (from his doctor) that he had cancer and it could not be cured. It was only a matter of 6-9 of months, before he would get so ill by the cancer that he then would die. During this time he really wanted to make something for his wife to live on after he's gone. Because he really loved her. He ran a small business with importing stuff from Thailand into his country. So before it was time to leave for good, he were about to really make sure that everything worked with this business so she could at least make money on that. So last week she came back to Thailand and also happened to meet my wife at told this story. My wife then asked her how she felt about her husband. She replied that he have been really nice to her, but... She didn't love him. To her he was only someone who could take her away from the boring life she had earlier.

Man.... These people doesn't have any hearts...!

Another story that I've experienced myself. A woman in my city one day came to ask my wife if I could place a telephone call to Europe. Her 'farang' husband were in a coma at the local hospital after something happened to him. (she didn't told us why) She wnated my help to call her husbands insurance company and ask how much she will get when he dies.

Man.... They have been married for 17 years and had 2 teenage children. Why couldn't she show her respect and stay besides him at the hospital.

Another woman that's married to a 'farang' where visiting her hometown (here) together with her husband. She and her husband went to the local disco here, together with her brother and a friend of his. The real story was that this "friend of her brother's" actually was her extra lover that she have had before she met her husband and also enjoyed during the occasions she went to Thailand alone to "see her family".

Man......... Why do she have to make her husband to appear like an idiot, bringing her lover as well when they were out for a nice time?

And so it goes on. Have more stories, but I'll spare the world from those.

I don't know what my wife really feels for me either. That's very scary. The more I think of it, the more I fell that I'm married with a stranger that I don't know if she really loves me. She's nice to me and all that. But... If she had to choose between her family and me, she would probably choose her family. That's just the way it is.

So what about this thread's topic? Well This young fellows death could be because of many reasons. Married for only five months.... Well, I give up!

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Overgeneralizing can be a slippery slope argument,however I appreciate your information and enjoyed reading your post.In general some thai women are scammers in varying degrees..as are a certain percentage of all peoples in all countries..before my thai wife,I had several thai girlfriends of various degrees of "shadiness" from white ish to darker,for lack of better words.I know of an example of a guy In Canada whose wife just stays in Thailand after her Canadian citizenship was finalized in 2006.He sends her money and she meets other farang boyfriends in her area of Thailand.I would never tell this guy because he has his head in the "sand".He knows pretty well anyway.There are many good conservative thai woman too.Once some of the bar girls have been working in the bars for too long,they can get jaded by the whole lifestyle.. by the lowest common denominator of farang drunks and sex tourists,then they may develop a bit of a drinking problem.You can take the girl out of the bar...but perhaps you can't take the bar out of the girl.I am not denigrating bar girls at all,most are trying to help their families.I wanted to meet a Conservative,educated,jai dee,hard working,attractive(duh)thai lady and get to know her family well.Many of us farang believe our wives love us,but we are also aware that things can turn on a dime for any number of reasons.We are all somewhat deluded at times.This poor man's very unfortunate killing could have been avoided by him making different and possibly better life choices.We all make mistakes,and I just wish he had done things differently.Us farang can learn from this tragedy.In Thailand I like to be somewhat humble and show people that you care through actions,and it's likely you'll have few if any enemies.

I don't live at a tourist region. Have no experience with the bar-street life, except some occasions when I've met some old friends that happened to come here on holiday and then Pattaya. In 10 years here, maybe I've gone there 6-7 times, 2-3 days each. In fact... I see strange behavior against thai-only couples almost every day. They cheat on each other. Cheat on money. Waste all the family 'fortune' either on karaoke women (the male) or illegal card playing (mostly women). Upon that, there are sometimes a few 'happy' westerners that comes here occasionally. I'm sure there are good thai women as well. But the better education and family background, the less the reason to marry a 'farang'. I can't recall such high rate on cheating and unfaithfullness between couples from the country I come from. Young or old, doesn't matter. Almost all do it (man and women), if they get the chance. Maybe I sound cynical. But I ask myself daily. Where is the the pure love between couples? Not the forced attachment. Not the need for status and "I-give-you--you-give-me deals". In fact... In the land of plenty of sex, I see very little pure love. They are all breded on: "-Love is what you get when you take care of you family." Higher education or good manors simply just hide it better.

Like the situation when I met newly married guy from the same country as me. I wished him good luck and fortune. Then I asked him how long he have known his wife. -About 5 months he said. -Aha...? i said. -Are you sure you're not being a cheap ride for her only? -No, no... This lady is not a bar girl. She's been studying at the university! She's educated! In fact, we have been arranged through a relative of hers who is already living in my country and married with my friend. -Aha...? i said again. -So where are you going for honeymoon then? i asked. -Well I told her that I wanted to take and her two children (!!!hello!!!) on honeymoon to Singapore. -But she wasn't interested in that. -She just told me that it is better that we skip that and go to your country directly instead! -Awww....! I said inside my head. -Ok, I you wish best of good luck then! I said.

Man... This is really really silly. I bet that guy is more careful when buying a used car then he was on his newly acquired wife. Just because they are educated and not working in a bar, doesn't mean a thing. It's only a illusion equally built up by all of the involved. Have anyone here met a thai woman that loves to read poetry? I'm sure I'm not wrong by saying that big deal of these women (if you're a hetero male) don't know what real love is. They are only carrying the guilt that they must take care of mum and dad in order have the "love" of theirs. But what parent do actually love a child by placing that guilt around its neck? That is probably why they truly can't love their partner. It's always the family. You can make the "test" yourself. Go and ask your wife, girlfriend or whatever: -What is love? I'll bet she will answer: -Take care of family.

The "right" answer would probably be like: -Love is something you can't explain, define or let go. You just feel a strong desire to be with that person, no matter who he is, where he comes from or what he do.

Edited by Ga-gai
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So much bitterness in this thread.

There are greedy people everywhere who'll screw you for whatever they can anyway they can...... not so much bitterness but cynical they may be.... another foreigner has passed away under dubious circumstances RIP ...... time to move on me thinks to safer waters!!!

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I have been watching this thread for a while and I now just have to add my opinion. It is just my opinion so shoot me down if you wish.

I am a 45 year old and a trained psychologist who has been here for a few years but I am still learning...

The things that hit me every time in stories like this (too common I fear now) are three fold:

the tragedy - I feel so much for the brutality of the case. He is dead, a child witnessed it and there are parents and family who need to grieve...

the lies - ALL Thais lie and steal and believe it is acceptable despite their Buddhist faith, in a way we westerners could not even comprehend. They are amoral - that is to say that all is ok as long as you do not get caught doing it...

the face thing - finally and most important of all - FACE - getting caught, looking stupid etc. All Asia suffers form this but Thailand is very bad. IN the west a child or adolescent is taught that it does not matter to be wrong, stupid or to be found out. We are taught to forgive. Along with all the other shortcomings in the education and parenting systems here, the product of Thailand are lovely people until they are confronted, angry or shamed, then they behave like children.

Officially, Thailand has one of the lowest IQs in the world and certainly the lowest if you correlate economic advantage and faclities against it. The people mean well but they are in the true sense of the word, primitive. There is a complete lack of emotional development which is so clear after a few cnversations.

Gentlemen, we are dealing with children with often a very poor social adjustment wthat makes crime seem ok, yet with grown up toys such as guns so beware...

Just my thoughts... The adult bodies and the warm smiles hide the broken hearts and pent up anger of disfunctional children that never grew up and that is the bulk of the Thai population. This explains many things including the attraction of the girls to many farang guys and why not? The Lolita complex is real and very strong and very attractive but it has a scary other side.

I write this out of respect for the situation but to point out that so much speculation here assumes adult behaviour which Thais are simply rarely capable of. Does this help to understand this and msot Thai behaviour?

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As a corollary to the last post, for anyone who is not sure about Thai society, watch the Thai soaps each that play each night. These soap operas have different characters and scenes (slightly) but always the same plots...

It has been said that daily TV reflects a nation and how true in this case.

All you will see is deceit, anger, loss of face then revenge.... They are ALL the same basic plot.

You do not need to even understand the language to see the way they tug on the innate emotions of Thais with the shouting, slapping and fighting linked to emotional music of unrequited love - and that is only the girls fighting!

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I have been watching this thread for a while and I now just have to add my opinion. It is just my opinion so shoot me down if you wish.

I am a 45 year old and a trained psychologist who has been here for a few years but I am still learning...

The things that hit me every time in stories like this (too common I fear now) are three fold:

the tragedy - I feel so much for the brutality of the case. He is dead, a child witnessed it and there are parents and family who need to grieve...

the lies - ALL Thais lie and steal and believe it is acceptable despite their Buddhist faith, in a way we westerners could not even comprehend. They are amoral - that is to say that all is ok as long as you do not get caught doing it...

the face thing - finally and most important of all - FACE - getting caught, looking stupid etc. All Asia suffers form this but Thailand is very bad. IN the west a child or adolescent is taught that it does not matter to be wrong, stupid or to be found out. We are taught to forgive. Along with all the other shortcomings in the education and parenting systems here, the product of Thailand are lovely people until they are confronted, angry or shamed, then they behave like children.

Officially, Thailand has one of the lowest IQs in the world and certainly the lowest if you correlate economic advantage and faclities against it. The people mean well but they are in the true sense of the word, primitive. There is a complete lack of emotional development which is so clear after a few cnversations.

Gentlemen, we are dealing with children with often a very poor social adjustment wthat makes crime seem ok, yet with grown up toys such as guns so beware...

Just my thoughts... The adult bodies and the warm smiles hide the broken hearts and pent up anger of disfunctional children that never grew up and that is the bulk of the Thai population. This explains many things including the attraction of the girls to many farang guys and why not? The Lolita complex is real and very strong and very attractive but it has a scary other side.

I write this out of respect for the situation but to point out that so much speculation here assumes adult behaviour which Thais are simply rarely capable of. Does this help to understand this and msot Thai behaviour?

You make some decent points,however you say all Thais lie and steal and are all amoral,neither with or without morals,with very low IQs?On what basis do you paint all Thais with such a damning indictment? I assume you draw those conclusions from normal bias formed from observations of Thai people over a long period.In a country of over 65 million people,I assure you your sample is too small.There are Thais who do not steal or lie.Anybody could,for example find some monks in Thailand who do not lie and steal,like the one who is 116 years old.Thaksin may have lied and stolen,but he probably has a high IQ.I do agree with you somewhat about the soap operas,however the Thai soap operas are way more entertaining in my opinion than the American ones.Both are way over the top and speak to dysfunctional societies.Name me a functional one.Yours? Despite the recent positive injection of Obama,America is no shining beacon of morality with which to use like a club of authority and a fount of knowledge to lord it over places like Thailand.If I needed the expertise of a "trained psychologist" I would take a pass on you .

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the face thing - finally and most important of all - FACE - getting caught, looking stupid etc. All Asia suffers form this but Thailand is very bad. IN the west a child or adolescent is taught that it does not matter to be wrong, stupid or to be found out. We are taught to forgive. Along with all the other shortcomings in the education and parenting systems here, the product of Thailand are lovely people until they are confronted, angry or shamed, then they behave like children.

Officially, Thailand has one of the lowest IQs in the world and certainly the lowest if you correlate economic advantage and faclities against it. The people mean well but they are in the true sense of the word, primitive. There is a complete lack of emotional development which is so clear after a few cnversations.

Gentlemen, we are dealing with children with often a very poor social adjustment wthat makes crime seem ok, yet with grown up toys such as guns so beware...

Just my thoughts... The adult bodies and the warm smiles hide the broken hearts and pent up anger of disfunctional children that never grew up and that is the bulk of the Thai population. This explains many things including the attraction of the girls to many farang guys and why not? The Lolita complex is real and very strong and very attractive but it has a scary other side.

I write this out of respect for the situation but to point out that so much speculation here assumes adult behaviour which Thais are simply rarely capable of. Does this help to understand this and msot Thai behaviour?

very true.

a couple of years ago my brother in law fell out with his wife , it was a normal marriage breakdown , both sides had silly little grievances that on their own didnt amount to much but the sum total of them festering away for a year or so eventually led to an acrimonious split with his wife taking the son and going off to live with a new lover. this brought shame and disrespect on the cuckolded brother in law ,a lovely gentle kind hearted guy who for those very reasons has had no luck with the women he has gone for , and a general loss of face to the family in general , an intolerable situation.

at one of the family pow wows held to discuss this break up it was suggested that the errant wife should meet with an accident , get hit by a car as she left work or something , this was actually mulled over for a while before a couple of the more sensible members of the family vetoed the idea. if all the family had agreed with the idea , then it would most certainly have been carried out. what shocked me was that this idea was considered as an acceptable thing to do , and my in laws are not uneducated lowlifes living in a hut drinking booze all day. these are educated middle class respectable thais leading an honest and upstanding life.

as i say , the idea was shelved , but my eyes were opened just a bit wider to how disagreements and loss of face is dealt with here.

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I have been watching this thread for a while and I now just have to add my opinion. It is just my opinion so shoot me down if you wish.

I am a 45 year old and a trained psychologist who has been here for a few years but I am still learning...

The things that hit me every time in stories like this (too common I fear now) are three fold:

the tragedy - I feel so much for the brutality of the case. He is dead, a child witnessed it and there are parents and family who need to grieve...

the lies - ALL Thais lie and steal and believe it is acceptable despite their Buddhist faith, in a way we westerners could not even comprehend. They are amoral - that is to say that all is ok as long as you do not get caught doing it...

the face thing - finally and most important of all - FACE - getting caught, looking stupid etc. All Asia suffers form this but Thailand is very bad. IN the west a child or adolescent is taught that it does not matter to be wrong, stupid or to be found out. We are taught to forgive. Along with all the other shortcomings in the education and parenting systems here, the product of Thailand are lovely people until they are confronted, angry or shamed, then they behave like children.

Officially, Thailand has one of the lowest IQs in the world and certainly the lowest if you correlate economic advantage and faclities against it. The people mean well but they are in the true sense of the word, primitive. There is a complete lack of emotional development which is so clear after a few cnversations.

Gentlemen, we are dealing with children with often a very poor social adjustment wthat makes crime seem ok, yet with grown up toys such as guns so beware...

Just my thoughts... The adult bodies and the warm smiles hide the broken hearts and pent up anger of disfunctional children that never grew up and that is the bulk of the Thai population. This explains many things including the attraction of the girls to many farang guys and why not? The Lolita complex is real and very strong and very attractive but it has a scary other side.

I write this out of respect for the situation but to point out that so much speculation here assumes adult behaviour which Thais are simply rarely capable of. Does this help to understand this and msot Thai behaviour?

You make some decent points,however you say all Thais lie and steal and are all amoral,neither with or without morals,with very low IQs?On what basis do you paint all Thais with such a damning indictment? I assume you draw those conclusions from normal bias formed from observations of Thai people over a long period.In a country of over 65 million people,I assure you your sample is too small.There are Thais who do not steal or lie.Anybody could,for example find some monks in Thailand who do not lie and steal,like the one who is 116 years old.Thaksin may have lied and stolen,but he probably has a high IQ.I do agree with you somewhat about the soap operas,however the Thai soap operas are way more entertaining in my opinion than the American ones.Both are way over the top and speak to dysfunctional societies.Name me a functional one.Yours? Despite the recent positive injection of Obama,America is no shining beacon of morality with which to use like a club of authority and a fount of knowledge to lord it over places like Thailand.If I needed the expertise of a "trained psychologist" I would take a pass on you .

Dr. Moulton does make some good points but the blanket statement that all Thais lie and steal would seem unsupportable and impossible. With 65 or so million people there must be some honest ones.

Regarding the Thai IQ, a lot of research has been conducted in this area. Many factors need to be considered but the fact remains that the educational system in this somewhat developed country is a running joke around the world. One of Thaksin's grand programs from years past was to raise the average IQ ten full points to almost 100. Sadly, education was never a priority but just a soundbite. The national average IQ still probably floats around 88 and that is where the government likes to keep it. The Thai Smiles seem to be disappearing and I suspect there is a correlation between rising social awareness, education, rising IQ and those disappearing smiles.

Farang life is cheap and we live in one of the most crime ridden places on earth. Most of us will continue living or lives here but a "head in the sand" attitude regarding violent crime will eventually lead to disaster. Knowing your limitations and awareness of your surroundings is key to survival. I think if I moved from Thailand my Plan B would be Rio. Different country with similar crime problems.

R.I.P.

Edited by grantbkk
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... his lucky 7777 numberplate...

RIP Degioanni.

Irrespective of why he was killed, the last thing anyone should do is advertise how much money they have. Driving around with this plate is like waving raw meat in front of a pride of lions.

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