sriracha john Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 (edited) Some interesting comments from Mr Andrew Drummond .. http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2009/04/29/...-11-the-sequel/ Thank you for posting that. Interesting aspects and lots of new knowledge about the case... The passport photo alone resolves around 300 - 400 posts on that issue in this mega-thread. I particularly thought the last part was good and wise advice. So here’s a few lessons for Brits from Simon’s experience1. When you rent a motorcycle in Thailand open the tank and check the fuel. Normally there is only enough to get you to pump. Sometimes not even that. 2. The British Embassy place a ‘disclaimer’ at the end of their list of English speaking lawyers. This means if you are diddled you’re on your ownsome chum! 3. Do not take on Thai police, particularly Immigration Police, without backing at the highest level, and even then probably not. Nobody wins, especially not foreigners. 4. The word ‘f*cking’ is offensive and is well known by the Thais. Normal people find this word offensive, even when used purely to emphasis a point, even where I come from. Do not use it in conjunction with the term ‘bitch’ to describe a female immigration officer, or country to describe ‘Thailand’. You could be charged in your home country if you said the same. If you wish to swear, Welsh or Gaelic are still options but smile when you do. 5. When a Thai lawyer says you have nothing to worry and you can sue the pants off everyone, estimate your sentence at something between 40 years and life. 6. Get Simon to tell you his prison story. Edited April 29, 2009 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Also, if you read that blog, you will learn that Simon was VERY LUCKY to get off with a 500 baht fine. He met some friends who supported and advised him and he was confronted with a mine field of ways that would have kept him stuck in Thailand for a very long time. To the people who thought a small fine was preordained, you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electra Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 As ever, an amusing and insightful postscript from Andrew Drummond whose contribution to extricating Burrowes from his morass cannot be underestimated. Mind you, it is somewhat disappointing to note that as a result of idiotic inflammatory posts from the less intelligent of the forum, grinding out their own silly bigotry and prejudices in this thread, Thaivisa is earning a reputation for being the domain of the redneck expat community. Still, to all those of the forum not so afflicted, well done! All's well that ends well. One hopes that those useless incumbents at the British Embassy responsible for this nonsense will learn from the experience but I somehow feel that no such lesson will be drawn. Silly sods seem to only understand denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GungaDin Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I liked this piece: Quote: "The day before the court case, of course, things began to go wrong. I flew on ahead to Phuket and from my hotel rang Simon's lawyer at Simon's request. For the first time in a month he answered his mobile phone to me (on Embassy instructions according to his assistant) I asked the lawyer to come and see me and Simon in the hotel. Not possible, he said, he was busy. I told him it was quite important as Simon was due in the court in the morning and had a pre-arranged meeting with the prosecutor. I'm going to paraphrase the next but it went something like this. Lawyer: "What do you mean he's meeting the prosecutor?" AD:"Simon says he is pleading guilty. He would rather go home than wait for a year or two for a result." Lawyer:"What do you mean? I am his lawyer. Why is he pleading guilty? What did he do wrong? " AD: "Well he has sworn at immigration officials, and they have four officers who are going to testify to that. What defence are you putting in for him then because he does not know!" Lawyer:"Don't tell me the law, I have been practising law for XX years" AD:"And I am a journalist who has seen foreigners being screwed by Thai lawyers for 20 years!" (click) The lawyer put down the phone. Suddenly, as any expatriate living in Thailand will know, I had put myself in quite a dangerous situation, separating a Thai lawyer from his money! The piece about Simon's diatribe hit home to me. Had I been a newbie in Thailand, I would have written something similar & ended up in deep shit. Now that Simon knows how things work here, let's hope he's a much wiser traveller. Source: Andrew Drummond http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2009/04/29/...-11-the-sequel/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Simon did nothing to deserve all that has befallen him, getting angry and raising his voice after intense provocation is NOT A CRIME. well in Simon's case it is, and he pleaded guilty to it Tell me Thaiwanderer, given the circumstances, do you think he had a choice under the Thai Injustice system? He is now "at risk"of being re-arrested by Immigration even though he has complied with their directives and his bail conditions and the court's final judgement! of course he had a choice - but turns out he isn't the big man he touted himself as he could have relied upon all the eloquent arguments in this thread that clearly 'establish' that he is entirely innocent - oh wait, there aren't any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWalkingMan Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 of course he had a choice - but turns out he isn't the big man he touted himself ashe could have relied upon all the eloquent arguments in this thread that clearly 'establish' that he is entirely innocent - oh wait, there aren't any Dude, Are you ok? Seriously... hitting the chillies too much? Plead innocent and go to the jug or plead guilty and pay a fine. We all know that the rule of law is not really something to count on in Thailand and eloquence could be viewed as someone going against societal norms. In plain language eloquence means nothing and just a way to increase your jail time. Where did he tout himself as a big man? Inquiring minds want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Thinking parking tickets. Simpler to pay it and expensive to fight it and possibly lose. Simon dodged a bullet, is he still in country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electra Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 of course he had a choice - but turns out he isn't the big man he touted himself ashe could have relied upon all the eloquent arguments in this thread that clearly 'establish' that he is entirely innocent - oh wait, there aren't any I think it now safe to assume that Thaiwanderer is probably either a woman or an idiot. Argument is therefore a construct somewhere between idle bickering or a thesis beyond comprehension. Either way, further debate is redundant as much as Thaiwanderer's continued frivolous contribution. Ho hum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 interesting insight provided by drummond (though he himslef is not insightful) Simon misses appointment with immigration and yet again its somebody else's fault - apparent recurring theme for this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electra Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Yup, as I guessed. Ah well, the shrew triumphs yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 is your fixation limited to black convicts? drummond's account shows that SB was a difficult man to help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johna Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I have heard of two very similar cases in the last two months.One friend of mine was experiencing problems with service at a club and was apparently rude to one of the staff. She was escorted down the police station by a manager and lodged a formal complaint alledging that my friend said '<deleted> you' to her (which he denies). He had to go down to the police station twice but eventually was not charged (probably because the staff member had no witnesses to corroborate her allegation. A second friend was actually charged for 'rude and aggressive behaviour' (which amounted to him telling someone they were stupid and incompetent - which incidentally seemed to be a simple statement of fact). Again the person had no witnesses but when it came to court he was advised by the judge to plead guilty and accept a Bt1000 fine. This he did. The twist in the tale is this - when he went to Europe recently he was told by immigration officials that he was 'blacklisted' and could not return. As he both works in Thailand and has a Thai wife and family that was quite a blow especially as he has lived here for 12 years. Now you might think the lesson in all of this is that you shouldnt be rude to someone in Thailand. The real lesson is that any allegation of misconduct by a farang by a Thai will be taken very seriously by the police (with or without corroborating witnesses). That essentially gives a license to any Thai to make your life a mess if they so choose. BTW both allegations were made by very junior members of staff, not by people that could exert influence over the police. You also wont be surprised to know that the police were prepared to settle the matter if he paid them Bt150,000 but he refused partly out of the principle and partly because he believed that he was entitled to call someone 'stupid and incompetent' if they had acted in that manner. What are the names of these clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFIT Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Anyone with any actual input Your wife is misinformed. Thank you for clearing this up. I did some research on google but to no avail. I didnt think so, however I was more or less trying to confirm. She couldnt believe her country could be so petty as to do something like this, and that there had to be a deeper reason. In a nushell, Phuket Immigration stuffed up and the British Embassy stuffed the Londoner, Phuket Immi lost face in court and are now being very vindictive with a 20,000 bt fine for "överstaying". Where are you getting this " Information " , please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GungaDin Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 is your fixation limited to black convicts?drummond's account shows that SB was a difficult man to help Difficult as a newbie would be through ignorance of the Injustice system. What was it the Pommie Embassy bloke was quoted as saying... and denied "We empathise with your self-righteousness" end quote. (but that's useless in Thailand) I hope SB has enough brain cells to keep off the streets of Phuket until he can raise the fine demanded by Phuket Immigration, and his air fare home. He would be safer back in BKK. If you get my drift. TW. It's a shame that you can't empathise with Burrowes and the rest of us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartempion Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I Particularly liked Drummond's comment on Thai Visa posters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 A number of offensive posts have been removed. Respect the forum rules that forbid flaming, and generally being offensive to other members. Thank you ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 i can empahise (but not sympathise) with someone in a foreign land being treated a little poorly, getting angry and making a mistake having then found himself in such a situation he bleats about his predicament (but not his part in making it) and fixes on that rather than finding a solution i hope (but doubt) it will be the last we hear of mr burrowes - from what has been reported about him so far it appears he is his own worse enemy as i mentioned in the irish drug dealer thread the 'negligence' some allege for british consular officials in SB's case could have been worse Alan John Davies was originally sentenced to death in Thailand - and it is alleged 'an official at the British Embassy had provided secret evidence to the court, in the form of false statements on Embassy letterhead, including an incorrect statement that he was wanted by British officials on drugs offences' http://www.grahamwatsonmep.org/news/000375...ign_office.html http://www.fairtrials.net/index.php/news/a...tice_continues/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 i can empahise (but not sympathise) with someone in a foreign land being treated a little poorly, getting angry and making a mistake having then found himself in such a situation he bleats about his predicament (but not his part in making it) and fixes on that rather than finding a solution i hope (but doubt) it will be the last we hear of mr burrowes - from what has been reported about him so far it appears he is his own worse enemy as i mentioned in the irish drug dealer thread the 'negligence' some allege for british consular officials in SB's case could have been worse Alan John Davies was originally sentenced to death in Thailand - and it is alleged 'an official at the British Embassy had provided secret evidence to the court, in the form of false statements on Embassy letterhead, including an incorrect statement that he was wanted by British officials on drugs offences' http://www.grahamwatsonmep.org/news/000375...ign_office.html http://www.fairtrials.net/index.php/news/a...tice_continues/ Astonishing story about the embassy. What does "secret evidence" mean? His lawyer never got to see it? That is a kangaroo effort if ever there was one, and I hope they found who provided the evidence and put him back in the Thai prison in place of Mr. Davies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabum Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Simon is as difficult as I would have been, I would have been vomiting if I had to try and choke the word GUILTY out of my mouth. "Finally, Simon will not thank me for this, but for those back home reading this don’t forget to ask Simon on his return to tell his prison story involving, a sphincter, a prison doctor, 300 inmates, and a tiny tube of antiseptic cream." LOL I don't want to know... hopefully it was funny and not traumatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Why do you harbor such disdain for a man you haven't met, accused of a petty crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abrak Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 What are the names of these clubs? Yes a very good question. Afterall you would expect a 'club' to deal with the matter internally, perhaps demanding an apology from the member to the member of staff or, in an extreme case, suspending membership rights for a period of time. It is difficult to see how it is in the interests the individual, the Club or its Members to take such a matter to the police. I have no wish to discredit the club in question so I wont mention its name. To give give you some clue though it does begin with a 'B' and end with 'lue Canyon'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Why do you harbor such disdain for a man you haven't met, accused of a petty crime? his actions and attitude (as reported) - have you never felt disdain or admiration for anyone on the basis of reading (me included )? Edited April 30, 2009 by thaiwanderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Flaming & offensive posts deleted. As this topic has now run it's course. It's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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