Exodus: Expatriates Leaving Chiang Mai And Environs

[Ulysses G.]

Some people just like to complain

You've pretty much figured it out on your own.

[Nuff Said]

I left Chiang Mai.

That's why I'm posting at this ungodly hour.

Sadly I am forced to return next week. Woe is me.

I also left Chiang Mai.

I am also returning, not because I have to, but because I want to.

Can't wait to get back! Bags partly packed already. Just 2 weeks to go.

Its not all one way traffic.

[Mapguy]

I opened this thread well over a year ago when I was curious about the impacts of the deteriorating economic situation and depreciating foreign currencies. It has taken a few twists and turns since then.

I thought I'd revisit the thread after watching businesses locally which serve foreigners apparently continuing to suffer. The rest of the economy of Northern Thailand is apparently growing just fine Otherwise, one can only wince at the currency exchange situation. People without a cushion may be staying, just going out less. I really haven't been waving good bye to people.

Casual monitoring of TV Chiang Mai seems to reveal an influx of new members to the community, or at least expressions of interest in moving here. The last meeting of Chiang Mai Friends was pretty heavily attended, not that there were many new people. Attendance at the Expats Club varies, but is apparently generally off. The residential housing and condo sales market is very slow, but the rental market seem to be "healthier." It is a bit astonishing to see construction continuing. Hope projects don't end up as empty bank-owned concrete shells as happened after the bhat crash.

Due to the horrendous situation created at ILCMU, quite a number of people caught in the middle apparently have been told officially to leave in a hurry. Some probably will be able to work things out. I hope so. There are threads elsewhere about that.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Mapguy

[Bangkokky]

Otherwise, one can only wince at the currency exchange situation.

Thailand deserves better tourists and expats than those who just want to get more bang for their buck. If your observations are correct, it will sort the wheat from the chaff.

[gotlost]

Otherwise, one can only wince at the currency exchange situation.

Thailand deserves better tourists and expats than those who just want to get more bang for their buck. If your observations are correct, it will sort the wheat from the chaff.

Another fine elites attitude.

[anonymouse]

Otherwise, one can only wince at the currency exchange situation.

Thailand deserves better tourists and expats than those who just want to get more bang for their buck. If your observations are correct, it will sort the wheat from the chaff.

I'd say the majority of tourists and expats factor in the cheaper cost of living as a reason to holiday or live here.

Yours sincerely,

The Chaff

Edited October 16, 2010 by sbk
flame removed-mind your manners

[bangkokcitylimits]

Seven years in Chiang Mai was seven years of burning eyes and a painful throat and 3 traffic accidents. Moved few miles outside and from the second day the burning eyes and a painful throat were gone and no more accidents since.

Maybe in a 20 years things or so things will be improved, not sure, and Chiang Mai as being a nice and beautiful city is too far away anyway. Complete lack of city development made it nothing different from any outskirt of Banckok with a Walt Disney temple every 500 metres.

There isn't anything beautiful in Chiang Mai not even a square with seats and fountains where people gather together to talk and reading their newspapers, a city like that is not a city at all just a collection of homes and shops connected by roads, open sewage's and black spaghetti. The traffic atmosphere is one of 'we don't care about you - just move on go where you need to go-, the sidewalks are like 'we don't care if you break a leg why should we'.

Every city should have a chance to develop the positive way, also Chiang Mai, but they just don't care and let everything be. Sorry I don't wish to spend my life in such an uninteresting, stinking shtihole !

Bye bye Chiang Mai, the memories of 10-15 years ago are sweet though.

Edited October 16, 2010 by bangkokcitylimits

[Mapguy]

Please note, TV CM old timers, that it was not I who brought up the problem with extreme seasonal air pollution (mid February - mid April, generally).

I hope that newcomers to TV CM will take the time to search TV CM on the topic. There are lots of appropriate keywords to use. Just go hunting. There is MUCH factual information,opinion, and clues to find out more about the topic. It is a very serious social, economic, and public health issue of concern.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Mapguy

[jayjay0]

Some tend to discourage the newcomers as the happy days of CM are gone. Some others show more optimistic faces... So, what best advice would you give to newcomers today ? Am I a fool to think I can write new pages of my life in CM ? Is CM still a place to create one's life, reasonably and with no ambition to build any fortune ?

ChiangMai is a great place for a single foreigner to come and live

IF

He has enough money to keep himself and has no expectation (or need) of earning anything (locally) but pocket money.

Heaps of French speaking and English speaking people around.

Two French bars in MoonMuang Soy 2 alone.

I swore I would not come into this beaten to death thread.

That being said I just had to agree with you ( a few reservations ) about great if you are single. Not that great if you are married unless you are a missionary here to save the pagans the doom of hel_l.

[Bangkokky]

I'd say the majority of tourists and expats factor in the cheaper cost of living as a reason to holiday or live here.

Yours sincerely,

The Chaff

We don't necessarily disagree here. IMHO, there is nothing wrong with factoring in the lower cost of living. But to come here just because it's cheap, is falling short with a great amount of other factors. It might now be taking its toll when certain people left as it was suggested in the headline of this thread. I am quite sure they are not a great loss for the Thai tourism industry and economy anyhow and they have being replaced by other visitors as a stable number of arrivals indicates.

The number of arrivals was of a little bit over 14 million visitors in each of the last 2 years and the Thai economy is growing up to 7% this year (http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/92790.html). Chaff gone, wheat prices up.

[johnmcc6]

It is interesting to see how this thread has changed since it started. Back then the Aussie dollar was around 22 baht. The Ausie pension was also some $20.00 lowerper fortnight. As of today the Aussie dollar is at parity with the U S dollar and expected to overtake it. The average Aussie pension is around 40,000 baht a month if you have no real assets. The average cost here for a carton of beer is $50.00 ...a pack of smokes $16.00...car registration average $800.00 pa for a medium sized vehicle...rent for a crappy one bedroom flat $250.00 a week if you can find one...thousands of speed camera's taking in a minimum of $180.00 fine for 5 k's over the limit...and the list goes on.

The only way a broke pensioner can live in Australia is to find an abandoned caravan and a mate with a farm to park it on.

So Chiangmai has lousy foot paths used as parking lots for scooters...gas mask season during burn offs and traffic to test ones survival instincts daily. It is also facinating in it's diversity . A people watchers paradise. A food lovers heaven. A place where you can mix in or drop out according to your interests. And you can survive quite nicely on 40,000 baht if you have to. I for one am glad there are places like Thailand as optons to go to when things get really tough at home.

[ianf]

That's no loss it's awful

While incompetence abounds in so many walks of life, it is particularly glaring when unqualified people attempt to publish a newspaper or magazine – the lousy effort is actually committed to print then handed out for all to see.

The Chiang Mai Mail is an egregious example of people with no professional journalism skills printing a series of pages, calling it a newspaper, then basking in the glory of pictures of themselves with various petty officials and business slimeballs.

Really creepy. It is no "effort of love" – it actually is an attempt to make money. The Indian-Thai owner attempted to bring the exact template to Chiang Mai from Pattaya, where he had been successful at one time because it was the first English-language "newspaper" in a place that has a less-than-discerning readership. It think there are now some halfway decent local publications in Pattaya, so I suspect his "flagship" could also be in rough waters.

The only professional newspaper in Thailand that I have seen is the Phuket Gazette – but get this amazing fact – it is actually run by experienced, professional journalists.

My sentiments exactly. Did try to communicate with CM Mail but they were proud of the S*** they were publishing so .......

[Nuff Said]

It is interesting to see how this thread has changed since it started. Back then the Aussie dollar was around 22 baht. The Ausie pension was also some $20.00 lowerper fortnight. As of today the Aussie dollar is at parity with the U S dollar and expected to overtake it. The average Aussie pension is around 40,000 baht a month if you have no real assets. The average cost here for a carton of beer is $50.00 ...a pack of smokes $16.00...car registration average $800.00 pa for a medium sized vehicle...rent for a crappy one bedroom flat $250.00 a week if you can find one...thousands of speed camera's taking in a minimum of $180.00 fine for 5 k's over the limit...and the list goes on.

The only way a broke pensioner can live in Australia is to find an abandoned caravan and a mate with a farm to park it on.

So Chiangmai has lousy foot paths used as parking lots for scooters...gas mask season during burn offs and traffic to test ones survival instincts daily. It is also facinating in it's diversity . A people watchers paradise. A food lovers heaven. A place where you can mix in or drop out according to your interests. And you can survive quite nicely on 40,000 baht if you have to. I for one am glad there are places like Thailand as optons to go to when things get really tough at home.

Didn't realise that Aus was so expensive, not that I was thinking of going. My pension wouldn't last very long there.

Yes, you can certaily live comfortably in Chiang Mai on 40000 Baht per month, even if you paid 25% of that for a decent studio. It doesn't matter where you go in the world, nowhere is ever absolutely perfect. The more devolped the country the higher the cost of living, hence why retiring to Thailand, with its relatively low cost of living means accepting lower standards of infrastructure and poorer quality services.

The Chiang Mai footpaths are far from perfact. Its motorcyclists are inconsiderate and couldn't care less where they park, simply because, even if the parking bikes on footpaths is illegal, they know the law is never enforced.

Its all about taking the good with the bad. Nowhere is perfect, but there's far worse than Chiang Mai.

[el jefe]

Some tend to discourage the newcomers as the happy days of CM are gone. Some others show more optimistic faces... So, what best advice would you give to newcomers today ? Am I a fool to think I can write new pages of my life in CM ? Is CM still a place to create one's life, reasonably and with no ambition to build any fortune ?

ChiangMai is a great place for a single foreigner to come and live

IF

He has enough money to keep himself and has no expectation (or need) of earning anything (locally) but pocket money.

Heaps of French speaking and English speaking people around.

Two French bars in MoonMuang Soy 2 alone.

I swore I would not come into this beaten to death thread.

That being said I just had to agree with you ( a few reservations ) about great if you are single. Not that great if you are married unless you are a missionary here to save the pagans the doom of hel_l.

Chiang Mai isn't that great if you're married? I didn't know that. I'm happily married and happy to be in CM. I can't think of where else I'd rather be. I'm not a missionary. I'm not even Christian. What am I missing, Jay0?

[Loaded]

Apart from the pollution from February to the start of the rainy season, I think it's a good place for married couples and families. The people in general are friendly, the cost of living is cheap, there are good hospitals at affordable prices and there is also a range of good educational options. It's not perfect, but I love the place and have no plans to move on. I steer clear of the negativity created by bitter middle-aged farang alcoholics and the falseness of rented Thai friends.

[Ulysses G.]

I steer clear of the negativity created by bitter middle-aged farang alcoholics and the falseness of rented Thai friends.

Good idea. Edited October 18, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, most of them are pleasant and do not bother anybody. I say, let them stay!

[tomartoh]

Actually, most of them are pleasant and do not bother anybody. I say, let them stay!

Maybe because we are beyond redemption.

[Ulysses G.]

That might be it. I am always meeting people who say that the Christians hound them and hound them to join up, but when they lay their rap on me, I just tell them how I feel about religion and - from then on - they usually just leave me alone when it comes to that.

[Dante99]

That might be it. I am always meeting people who say that the Christians hound them and hound them to join up, but when they lay their rap on me, I just tell them how I feel about religion and - from then on - they usually just leave me alone when it comes to that.

It is the Thais and minority ethnic groups they go after mostly, not the farangs. And they do often bother them like telling them that they will go to the terrible place called hel_l if they do not convert.

[trainman34014]

Seven years in Chiang Mai was seven years of burning eyes and a painful throat and 3 traffic accidents. Moved few miles outside and from the second day the burning eyes and a painful throat were gone and no more accidents since.

Maybe in a 20 years things or so things will be improved, not sure, and Chiang Mai as being a nice and beautiful city is too far away anyway. Complete lack of city development made it nothing different from any outskirt of Banckok with a Walt Disney temple every 500 metres.

There isn't anything beautiful in Chiang Mai not even a square with seats and fountains where people gather together to talk and reading their newspapers, a city like that is not a city at all just a collection of homes and shops connected by roads, open sewage's and black spaghetti. The traffic atmosphere is one of 'we don't care about you - just move on go where you need to go-, the sidewalks are like 'we don't care if you break a leg why should we'.

Every city should have a chance to develop the positive way, also Chiang Mai, but they just don't care and let everything be. Sorry I don't wish to spend my life in such an uninteresting, stinking shtihole !

Bye bye Chiang Mai, the memories of 10-15 years ago are sweet though.

There may not be a 'square' in Chiang Mai but there is a park where people jog, eat, relax, talk and read newspaper's. I live outside of the City but I think it's very unfair to say there is no beauty there. For a start there are as many beautiful women there as any City in the world I have ever been to and there are many good things to see if you just open your eyes. It's not about what's there......it's about how you see it!

With regard to less than wonderful paving and the like; things won't change much until people get taxed into oblivion to pay for all the modern conveniences that some expat's appear to be missing. Higher taxes means higher prices for everything which means that most expat's will be looking for the next 'cheap' country to move to and moan about. You can please all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but some people are just miserable gits who are NEVER satisfied.

[Mathai]

Nice shot, trainman34014

I totally agree with you. I'm not living in CM yet but I'm currently doing my best to head there soon and stay for long.

Sometimes I feel discouraged by pessimistic members here... I hope I won't crash myself on landing !

Cheers

[LivinLOS]

An out of towners report after spending time home hunting and looking at 10's and 10's of places.. Many agents and renters of the higher end stuff (which are probably more western occupied, as usually Thais buy I feel) are reporting lots of vacancies and a lack of customers.. We had homes rapidly discounted from 75k to 40k (lanna tara 5 bed mansions, walk in closets the size of other homes bedrooms, LCD TV's all over the house.. floraville HUGE setup, etc) but the lower end.. say 20 or 30k homes on private moobaans seemed to not be prepared to discount more than a token grand or two and were holding out. Hence there was an insane difference between say a 25 - 30k property in stuff like home in park, emperor, etc etc.. And just a little bit more getting a place that was truly a different level on fit, finish, quality of furnishings, included electronics and kitchens, etc.

I was explaining my options on skype to a western property owner yesterday, who had his head in his hands saying that 2 plus years ago he could get 50 - 60 easily yet we are discussing half that figure.

As I say, I am new to the market but am familiar with Phuket market and your options on estate homes here are far greater but a lot less single plot homes with pools, and quality fittings. Prices and space better here tho.

[gotlost]

Was talking with the owner of a top Realtors in Chiang Mai just the other day. He said this pass year has been the worst they have seen it for 5 years for the resell of property.. He did say there seems to be a slight pick up at the moment but was not looking for it to rebound to even last years figures.

[Roamin47]

The world-wide economic crisis is causing a great reshuffling everywhere, God knows not just Chiang Mai or Thailand. Frankly, if I have to tighten my belt a little bit because of the strength of the baht/weakness of the dollar, it is still a heck of a lot more pleasant here than West Virginia, or rural Mississippi, or anywhere else I could afford to live in the States on what I have available. Except in extreme cases, I would venture that many of those leaving the country were teetering beforehand anyway -- lots of malcontents on this forum. Why is that?

[Gonzo the Face]

The world-wide economic crisis is causing a great reshuffling everywhere, God knows not just Chiang Mai or Thailand. Frankly, if I have to tighten my belt a little bit because of the strength of the baht/weakness of the dollar, it is still a heck of a lot more pleasant here than West Virginia, or rural Mississippi, or anywhere else I could afford to live in the States on what I have available. Except in extreme cases, I would venture that many of those leaving the country were teetering beforehand anyway -- lots of malcontents on this forum. Why is that?

Just perhaps those that you refer to as malcontents, are the reason new members sign on..... Think thats possible???

[Rimmer]

One inflammatory post removed from view

[Nuff Said]

I said in an earlier post that I was returning to live in CM, and its good to be back.

[jdinasia]

I steer clear of the negativity created by bitter middle-aged farang alcoholics and the falseness of rented Thai friends.

Good idea.

Hmmmm I read this and immediately I thought of the song .... ~~One is the loneliest number~~~~