Exodus: Expatriates Leaving Chiang Mai And Environs

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Did they take over the airport too?

Anyway, I don't think I recognized myself or even people I know in this topic.. If there is a problem then it's related to the economy from where people's money originates.. And 'bad' exchange rate.. Check what it was 12 years ago, seems like going back to a 'normal' exchange rate to me! Or did anyone think recent exchages rates were forever, like diamonds?

I think this topic would be equally if not more appropriate on a UK (for example) forum, as that's where the misery originates, not Thailand which is the same as ever. If money is a problem now then mistakes were made when calculating retirement needs and income..

Still, accepting that income is less for many people: So what? If you truly like Thailand it really shouldn't be an issue. Learn to like Thai food, entertainment, etc. If that doesn't sound like a good option then, heck, leave!

Edited March 8, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[tigerbeer]

Anyway, I don't think I recognized myself or even people I know in this topic.. If there is a problem then it's related to the economy from where people's money originates.. And 'bad' exchange rate.. Check what it was 12 years ago, seems like going back to a 'normal' exchange rate to me! Or did anyone think recent exchages rates were forever, like diamonds?

How very true.

[ChiangMaiFun]

My advice to anyone who may have 15m is get yourself some condos with part of the money and live off the income without worrying about rates etc. Dont try and just live off it and see it dwindle - just my two cents worth

Are you really giving advice to pump money into thai condos......I wouldnt do that, but you only put money into thai real estate that you can afford to lose, the market is flooded and always will be with condos and crap, YUK.

Theres better stuff to do with ur money & sure interest rates are bad at the moment, but that won't last forever either, one of the tricks with these types of investments is to lock in when its near the top.....the warning bells were ringing loudly for the aussies and the kiwis last June, July, thats when I moved a wad of cash here, you wont see those types of rates again for a very long time .

I would't think to give advice at all... I don't agree with your analysis. I have transferred part of my savings into condos here and get an average 9% ROI and never have a problem letting. You tell me where else you can get an ROI of 9% in this climate? I'd love to know I use the income as 'local' living expenses and don't worry about interest rates... a poor strategy? 9%? don't think so... but I'd be interested inyour ideas to do better...

[Rtwo]

Economic distress must certainly have hit just about everyone in the expatriate community. If it isn't the collapsing investment portfolio and the threat of lost retirement benefits, it might be the brutal change in some currency exchange rates of recent months. Sometimes it is both!

Some people are hunkering down; others are shipping out (or being shipped out by their companies). But it is very hard to get an overall view about what's going on. So, what do you know and what do you hear? I mean to include all expatriates in the discussion and the discussion to be about all expatriates, not just the Anglo- or Eurocentric. And I don't mean to include here discussion of the illegal Burmese worker problem, which is an issue of its own.

I'll start it off:

International schools have lost a fairly considerable number of students (around 50) from the Korean community.

I have heard of repatriation of various managers of enterprises in the industrial estates south of town. Anyone have any sense of the extent?

One hears of failing businesses. True? Are the owners still around?

Can certainly vouch for what you've heard about the reduction of expat staff numbers on the Lamphun Industrial Estates, I know of at least 10 myself and I suspect the actual figure is many times that number although companies are reluctant to go into details. The loss of these people is obviously due to reductions in demand brought about by the global recession and bearing in mind that most authorities seem to now believe that this is going to be with us for some time then this trend to reduce expat staff is likely to continue if not actually increase. If that's true then it follows that the numbers enrolled at the International Schools will also decrease leading in-turn to staff lay-offs.

When I first arrived in Chiangmai in 1979, foreigners were comparatively rare and I can't remember anybody who came here to actually retire; that phenomena seemed to begin in the mid to late 90's and continued apace right up to last year when economic reality kicked in. Thailand can be cheap but it can also be very expensive. If you live like a Thai then it's quite possible to live on less that 20,000 Baht a month but if you want a western lifestyle then you need plenty of money and the sky's the limit. The fact is that most expats don't live like Thais nor do they want to, hence the strain on their purse strings right now. WinnieTheKhwai has it in one when he writes "I think this topic would be equally if not more appropriate on a UK (for example) forum, as that's where the misery originates, not Thailand which is the same as ever. If money is a problem now then mistakes were made when calculating retirement needs and income." It is those very mistakes I think that will see a very large number of expats returning to their own countries. Incidentally I've seen the Baht range between 27 and 90 Baht to the Pound Sterling; it's just that many retirees only came here after the '97 crash and subsequent devaluation so I think they may have got a rather false impression.

From a personal point of view for the last 20 years I've been selling things in the UK that I export from here. This year I'll be exporting the least ever which means fewer orders for my suppliers; the high value of the baht is one thing but the main problem is reduced demand. Fortunately my wife, a Thai, has a good job and a high salary here in Thailand but for how long, who can say. We own houses in Thailand and the UK so could choose to live in either country without financial strain but I think the thing that will ultimately decide where we reside will not be money but more likely politics. Am I alone?

[el jefe]

Thailand can be cheap but it can also be very expensive. If you live like a Thai then it's quite possible to live on less that 20,000 Baht a month but if you want a western lifestyle then you need plenty of money and the sky's the limit. The fact is that most expats don't live like Thais nor do they want to, hence the strain on their purse strings right now.

I don't live like a Thai, nor do any westerners I know. All I know is I live a better lifestyle here in CM than I can in America on the same amount of money. Are you really trying to say that someone can go back to the US or the UK and spend less? Please give me an example of how it's cheaper to rent/own a home, pay for utilities, go out to eat every night (even for western food), entertain yourself, for less than in Thailand.

[Greenside]

I think the thing that will ultimately decide where we reside will not be money but more likely politics. Am I alone?

A heady mixture of the two, perhaps. The unpredictable nature of the Thai politics makes investing a significant proportion of one's assets here a nerve-wracking proposition - who knows when some populist politician will take it into his head to blame foreigners for the economic ills of the world..

("It wasn't us 'guv, it was those Americans. What do you mean, how come their dollar is so strong then? Dunno. Maybe it was our fault after all...")

..and regulate us out of the country in some quiet bureaucratic way. A mass exodus of long term residents would find a lot of those investment condos on the market at once not to mention a glut of rental properties, so putting a bit of a back end dampener on CMF's return on investment figures when the total venture is reviewed. Actually do I agree with his strategy but I don't think we've felt the impact on rentals yet.

Time will tell, I guess.

[samuibeachcomber]

the oposite surely would be more attractive(encourage more farang to come here)that way more thais get looked after financially,nothing to be gained by expelling expats imo.

[dashan]

I spent 14 years working and living in Chiang Mai and left two years ago for China. My parting comment was "everything is built on sand here," and now it appears that is true for the wider world as well.

But unfortunately Thailand, unlike many nations, was unable to benefit greatly from the boom cycles due to many factors:

* Inability to plan ahead and develop infrastructure and an educated talent pool

* Incessant bickering -- and at times violence -- over who gets to carve up the spoils

* Cultural ethnocentrism that results an inability to truly absorb and use new ideas and technology (simply parroting a Thai version is not enough -- just copying does not bring progress).

* Resulting exclusionary laws on foreigners denies the ideas and capital they can bring (the Chinese are long term thinkers who are willing to allow foreigners to actually own something while the Chinese learn).

That's BEFORE the golbal meltdown that is looking increasingly dire -- as if the capitalist system itself has actually failed. The whole thing from banks to property to the stock market and personal finances appears to have been one enormous, systemic bubble that has burst.

For the vast majority of Thais who have always been disenfranchised the bust might not have as big an impact -- they were already in the sh*t, so subsistence rice farming and "mai pen rai" will continue to be their life, and might look increasingly appealing to others.

But for further industrialization and any type of new sustainable development -- forget it. The productive foreigners who haven't already gotten out of Dodge will do so soon. If they have anywhere to go.

Hopefully foreigners will get back on their feet enough to continue to support Thailand's tourism industry -- if drunk cops shooting tourists or battling color-shirted thugs don't scare them off altogether. Thailand's wonderful rice will continue to be crucial to the Kingdom's well-being.

For the sake of the poor of Thailand, I for one hope the big faces who've ridden their back for so long fall far and hard.

[elektrified]

My advice to anyone who may have 15m is get yourself some condos with part of the money and live off the income without worrying about rates etc. Dont try and just live off it and see it dwindle - just my two cents worth

Sorry, but with all do respect, that is terrible advice to anyone. What if there is no income to live off? Furthermore there is the risk of loss of capital.

[Greenside]

the oposite surely would be more attractive(encourage more farang to come here)that way more thais get looked after financially,nothing to be gained by expelling expats imo.

You're right of course but since when was logic or long term thinking ever a part of the politics of this country? If they provided for the interests of long term visitors with more imagination they'd develop a useful sector of the local if not the national economy with no outlay or disadvantages I can think of. Just giving people the confidence to bring those investments and savings they leave at home "just in case" would be handy for a start.

[damian5000]

The american $ is higher than it's been in 2 years against the baht.

[PeaceBlondie]

The american $ is higher than it's been in 2 years against the baht.

But that is cherry-picking the chart. The baht is down 14% from when I bought my first bike here in 2003. Now I am cherry-picking 36 is much better than 32. So, I am bringing in money to finish the new house. With proceeds from a mutual fund that is down about 45%....

For many years now - maybe 15 - Thailand has had an increasing number of NEW expats. That supply may dry up.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

For many years now - maybe 15 - Thailand has had an increasing number of NEW expats. That supply may dry up.

And thank heavens for that!

[malcy]

The american $ is higher than it's been in 2 years against the baht.

But that is cherry-picking the chart. The baht is down 14% from when I bought my first bike here in 2003. Now I am cherry-picking 36 is much better than 32. So, I am bringing in money to finish the new house. With proceeds from a mutual fund that is down about 45%....

For many years now - maybe 15 - Thailand has had an increasing number of NEW expats. That supply may dry up.

surely the number of new expats has increased every year since the first one arrived who knows when ??

[dashan]

The american $ is higher than it's been in 2 years against the baht.

But that is cherry-picking the chart. The baht is down 14% from when I bought my first bike here in 2003. Now I am cherry-picking 36 is much better than 32. So, I am bringing in money to finish the new house. With proceeds from a mutual fund that is down about 45%....

For many years now - maybe 15 - Thailand has had an increasing number of NEW expats. That supply may dry up.

surely the number of new expats has increased every year since the first one arrived who knows when ??

I seriously doubt the number of expat residents has increased every year. It probably peaked in the mid-'90s. Thanksin, new visa rules and general chaos have driven a lot off and made it difficult for newcomers to grip the ground.

When I arrived in 1992 the chaos was appealing because it was accompanied by a laxness in visa matters. I overstayed my visa several times and simply got a slap on the wrist. As well, Thailand was reputed to become the next "Tiger" economy, so there were a host of expats with new ideas and fresh energy. Almost all were long ago ground up and spit out, left licking their wounds and limping toward better environs. A number of the more colorful characters died.

This also before the Bangkok big faces took over Niemanhemin Road -- which was considered somewhat out of town back then -- and traffic in Chiang Mai was tolerable. It was a fun place to be back in those days.

[CaptHaddock]

Also, one could easily get by without air-con in Chiang Mai if you live in a comfortable building, where it would be almost a must have in Bangkok.

What kind of comfortable building in CM would not require aircon? Can you identify some of these buildings? Interested for our eventual move to CM.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I think the thing that will ultimately decide where we reside will not be money but more likely politics. Am I alone?

A heady mixture of the two, perhaps. The unpredictable nature of the Thai politics makes investing a significant proportion of one's assets here a nerve-wracking proposition - who knows when some populist politician will take it into his head to blame foreigners for the economic ills of the world..

("It wasn't us 'guv, it was those Americans. What do you mean, how come their dollar is so strong then? Dunno. Maybe it was our fault after all...")

..and regulate us out of the country in some quiet bureaucratic way. A mass exodus of long term residents would find a lot of those investment condos on the market at once not to mention a glut of rental properties, so putting a bit of a back end dampener on CMF's return on investment figures when the total venture is reviewed. Actually do I agree with his strategy but I don't think we've felt the impact on rentals yet.

Time will tell, I guess.

Let's see... I believe there will be many MORE people jumping the farang bandwagon and heading to Asia and so I don't support this doom 'n' gloom stuff on this board right now... people will always want class condos - I'm really in it for the income and 'laundering' of my western savings rather than capital growth. IF there is a disaster I still don't believe the government will somehow 'seize' western assets and put that 40% tourist income in the toilet - I CAN see tourist numbers falling but not retirees etc. and I don't read of any empirical evidence to counteract this view (yet). Needless to say I have not put all my savings into this particular 'pot' but I am confident my strategy is sound (although maybe 'bumpy' on occasion).

[ChiangMaiFun]

My advice to anyone who may have 15m is get yourself some condos with part of the money and live off the income without worrying about rates etc. Dont try and just live off it and see it dwindle - just my two cents worth

Sorry, but with all do respect, that is terrible advice to anyone. What if there is no income to live off? Furthermore there is the risk of loss of capital.

Please see my reply to 'Greenside' - and... it's NOT advice! just MHO I get 12 month leases on my condos without any trouble at the moment and get 9% ROI - so in 10/11 years they pay for themselves - I'm in it for longterm and income so I don't have to worry about rates and ATMs etc. It may be 'bumpy' over next 2/3 years but not deadly!!! IMHO

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I seriously doubt the number of expat residents has increased every year. It probably peaked in the mid-'90s. Thanksin, new visa rules and general chaos have driven a lot off and made it difficult for newcomers to grip the ground.

I seriously wonder where that sentiment comes form in some.. Surely if any province, Thaksin was GREAT for Chiang Mai. I wouldn't have my company if it wasn't for Thaksin's economic incentives that pulled Thailand out of the swamp after the economic crisis and ineffective lethargic Chuan government. Add to that the SME incentives and IT incentives and it was the perfect environment to start a business.

This also before the Bangkok big faces took over Niemanhemin Road -- which was considered somewhat out of town back then -- and traffic in Chiang Mai was tolerable. It was a fun place to be back in those days.

Guess what, it's a free country, any Thai can buy land anywhere. And Nimmanhaemin was already a slightly up-market area that foreigners preferred even in the early nineties. Sure it was more out of town, but then the town grew and keeps growing, which, again, is a GOOD thing. Are you just being grumpy for the sake of grumpiness, kind of like sitting on a park bench and saying 'in the old days evertything was better'.. Well it wasn't. It was good, but not better than now. The most changes has happened within all of us.

Also, one could easily get by without air-con in Chiang Mai if you live in a comfortable building, where it would be almost a must have in Bangkok.

What kind of comfortable building in CM would not require aircon? Can you identify some of these buildings? Interested for our eventual move to CM.

The basics:

- Sun is kept off your walls, windows and preferably off as much of your building as possible. (Enough roof overhang, trees, etc.) Enough roof overhang also means you can keep more windows open in the rainy season; when the wind starts blowing it instantly lowers temperatures for the evening.

- The house is positioned to catch the breeze, making sure you havee enough windows that open on the right sides

- Have enough garden/greenery around the house, not cement or concrete that would heat up or reflect heat or keep warming up the area around the house.

- Main living quarters are positioned not to catch afternoon sun.

- The roof is well ventilated. (and possibly insulated)

- You need a two level house at least, this keeps downstairs cooler still.

- Big thermal mass in your walls and floors

- Ceiling fans; moving the air around comfortably gets you through hotter times of the day without aircon, or let them just turn slowly in the evening to move the air around. Probably healthier than refrigerating your home as well.

- Build the house a bit outside of downtown.. Try driving around the outskirts on a moped in the evening, you will notice a remarkable drop in temperature first when getting out of town, and then further still in particular areas (nearer to the hills) those would be prime places to locate your house.

I think that's the most basic ones. In addition to that there's more elaborate passive or active cooling that you can do that doesn't involve airconditioning.. It's interesting to google that.

These days when I come home it so cool inside you'd think the aircon has been on... (Possibly due to the nights still being cool and the soil being cool. I actually keep windows shut downstairs these days.) I think traditional Thai homes (wooden ones on stilts) are good to catch breezes, but do nothing to use coolness from the ground. And of course wood warms up and stays warm.

Edited March 10, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[lukamar]

The basics:

- Sun is kept off your walls, windows and preferably completely off your building. (Trees, etc.)

- Positioning to catch the breeze, making sure you havee enough windows that open on the right sides

- The roof is well ventilated. (and possibly insulated)

- You need a two storey house at least, this keeps downstairs cooler still

- Big thermal mass in your walls and floors

- Ceiling fans

- Be a bit outside of downtown.. Try driving around the outskirts on a moped, you will notice a remarkable drop in temperature first when getting out of town, and then further still in particular areas (nearer to the hills) those would be prime places to locate your house.

I think that's the most important ones. These days I turn the ceiling fan on when going to bed but it quickly gets too cold so I have to turn it off.

I've read all the posts in this thread as we are thinking about moving back end of the year, most likely to Chiang Mai.

For us schools are the most important factor for our son. We have always lived a simple, but not deprived, lifestyle, we are homebodies. When we moved back to Canada 5 years ago the exchange on was almost the same as it is now. It was actually culture shock remembering how much it cost to live in the west. If you live within your means you don't ever have a monetary problem, it's when you want to live like the Elite on a Peasant's salary that you get into problems.

Just a quick note on the Basics of living without air con.

I agree with everything above.

:- When we built out house in Phayao we have no South facing windows.

:- We had insulation put in the roof which is ventilated.

:- We have a larger than normal overhang on the eves that shade all windows.

:- We have Thai type windows that catch the breeze.

:- We have marble floors on a foot thick monolithic slab. It's almost too cool to sit on in winter. ( it's a single story house.)

:- The main bedrooms are on the east side of the house, the guest bedroom is on the hot side of the house.

( Our house in western Canada has the Master facing Southwest and we have to have air-con to cool the room or you can't sleep even in moderate weather.)

We have never needed ceiling fans for cooling but I have thought about installing them and if I ever replace fixtures that is what I will put in.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

> :- We have Thai type windows that catch the breeze.

Right! Often these days you see aluminium sliding frames (or PVC for fancier ones), which inevitably means that only half of the available area opens because one panel slides in front of the other. Window frames with hinges that open all the way, or the push-open ones mean that there's a bigger area for the breeze to come in. They're cheaper too.

[malcy]

The american $ is higher than it's been in 2 years against the baht.

But that is cherry-picking the chart. The baht is down 14% from when I bought my first bike here in 2003. Now I am cherry-picking 36 is much better than 32. So, I am bringing in money to finish the new house. With proceeds from a mutual fund that is down about 45%....

For many years now - maybe 15 - Thailand has had an increasing number of NEW expats. That supply may dry up.

surely the number of new expats has increased every year since the first one arrived who knows when ??

I seriously doubt the number of expat residents has increased every year. It probably peaked in the mid-'90s. Thanksin, new visa rules and general chaos have driven a lot off and made it difficult for newcomers to grip the ground.

When I arrived in 1992 the chaos was appealing because it was accompanied by a laxness in visa matters. I overstayed my visa several times and simply got a slap on the wrist. As well, Thailand was reputed to become the next "Tiger" economy, so there were a host of expats with new ideas and fresh energy. Almost all were long ago ground up and spit out, left licking their wounds and limping toward better environs. A number of the more colorful characters died.

This also before the Bangkok big faces took over Niemanhemin Road -- which was considered somewhat out of town back then -- and traffic in Chiang Mai was tolerable. It was a fun place to be back in those days.

I think you are way off the mark , back in the early to mid 90 s you could go into any of the old hangouts and you would know every expat in there the only people you didnt know where holiday makers . Nowadays there are bars everywhere and almost everyone i speak to are living in chiangmai full time although i have never seen them before let alone know them by name ,there are definately more in chiangmai now than the so called peak in the mid 90s. And i say this as a tourist myself.

[chiangmaibruce]

Please give me an example of how it's cheaper to rent/own a home, pay for utilities, go out to eat every night (even for western food), entertain yourself, for less than in Thailand.

EJ, I think someone answered your question on page 1 of this thread. I don't think anyone is saying it is cheaper to live in farang land, but there are certain advantages in an economic situation like now, including:

- a better possibility of getting a reasonably well-paid job (even if it only a 25% chance - it is still better than the 1% chance you have in Thailand now)

- access to welfare support esp. health care for families (someone mentioned that for SOME countries, SOME benefits are payable if you live in Thailand - but I would guess that most are not legally payable to ppl living here)

[chiangmaibruce]

I spent 14 years working and living in Chiang Mai and left two years ago for China. My parting comment was "everything is built on sand here," and now it appears that is true for the wider world as well.

<snip>

For the sake of the poor of Thailand, I for one hope the big faces who've ridden their back for so long fall far and hard.

Good post Dashan, agree entirely

[el jefe]

Please give me an example of how it's cheaper to rent/own a home, pay for utilities, go out to eat every night (even for western food), entertain yourself, for less than in Thailand.

EJ, I think someone answered your question on page 1 of this thread. I don't think anyone is saying it is cheaper to live in farang land, but there are certain advantages in an economic situation like now, including:

- a better possibility of getting a reasonably well-paid job (even if it only a 25% chance - it is still better than the 1% chance you have in Thailand now)

- access to welfare support esp. health care for families (someone mentioned that for SOME countries, SOME benefits are payable if you live in Thailand - but I would guess that most are not legally payable to ppl living here)

Bruce, as I said in an earlier post, I'm only posting about retirees. i understand that if you were working here and no longer have a job, you would probably need to return to your homeland. If you're a retiree here, you won't be getting a job back in the UK, Europe or America, so you'll probably still be better off here. According to your math, you have a 74% chance of being worse off if you leave.

I don't know how the medical system works in Australia, the UK or Europe, but if you're an American, yes, you'll need to return to America to get low cost medical care. However, your Thai wife and children will not get free care. In the long run you would be better off buying insurance in Thailand for the whole family and remaining here. Again, this would only apply to Americans.

In good times you'd be better ff in the west. In bad times, most people would be better off here.

[dashan]

I think you are way off the mark , back in the early to mid 90 s you could go into any of the old hangouts and you would know every expat in there the only people you didnt know where holiday makers . Nowadays there are bars everywhere and almost everyone i speak to are living in chiangmai full time although i have never seen them before let alone know them by name ,there are definately more in chiangmai now than the so called peak in the mid 90s. And i say this as a tourist myself.

It could be ... I was talking about expats who worked or made a living in Chiang Mai, and by that I don't mean retirees who start small restaurants or bars, or are retired and hang out in small restaurants or bars.

As for a previous post about how great Thaksin was: The Night Safari, Floral Expo and other grandiose schemes for Chiang Mai? Long-time expats have to check in at immigration every 90 days -- often with an intern who can't even understand the passports they're handling? There was also some new high finance regulation under Thaksin that restricted capital movement in and out of the country (I didn't pay much attention at the time, but I remember businessmen howling about that). And then there was the the general tone of "Thai Rak Thai" that fed on the notion that foreigners are really not to be trusted. Thaksin, though he might have helped the rural poor so they would vote for him and he could continue to snatch the spoils of victory, was a demagogue who had his own interests at play. They all do that, but with Thaksin you never knew what the next scheme would be -- and some were extremely destructive.

I remember writing a piece about the stream of "crackdowns" and "hubs" that the Thaksin administration announced almost daily. Of course the conclusion was that Thailand would become the hub for crackdowns. To say this guy was shooting from the hip is to put it mildly.

Edited March 11, 2009 by dashan

[robblok]

Thailand can be cheap but it can also be very expensive. If you live like a Thai then it's quite possible to live on less that 20,000 Baht a month but if you want a western lifestyle then you need plenty of money and the sky's the limit. The fact is that most expats don't live like Thais nor do they want to, hence the strain on their purse strings right now.

I don't live like a Thai, nor do any westerners I know. All I know is I live a better lifestyle here in CM than I can in America on the same amount of money. Are you really trying to say that someone can go back to the US or the UK and spend less? Please give me an example of how it's cheaper to rent/own a home, pay for utilities, go out to eat every night (even for western food), entertain yourself, for less than in Thailand.

I live like a Thai, nice to meet you. I might spend a bit more then most Thais but i live in a nice small village in Nothaburi. I pay together with my wife (who works too) 5700 bath for our house (town house 2 stories between other houses). I don't mind its the same as I had in Holland.

Because my wife works too, we share the costs and i really don't spend that much. Before i ate in my village for 45 bath per meal, now i'm cooking for myself for about the same amount of money per meal. I don't own a car but a motorcycle everything is close by so i don't need one. I take a taxi when going into BKK (30 min trip).

The house of course looks good and has aircon but most Thai i know have aircon too. So it is possible to economize if your willing that is. Would be hard of course if you go out to bars all the time to pic up girls or guys whatever your into. But if your in a relation with someone who doesn't sponge off you it should be possible.

[PeaceBlondie]

Veering back on topic, we do need to differentiate between at least three kinds of expats

1. The young under-30 with little more than a sex partner, maybe teaching English

2. Over 30, settled in, working full time, a real life partner and maybe one to four kids

3. Retired, any kids are all adults and gone. You're over 60, with a partner already or destined to be your caretaker until you die

I am in group 3, but I know a few men over 50 with babies at home who fit between categories. And some working older teachers with much younger mates of either gender.

That group 3 is here to stay, since we have nothing better to go back home to. If you are from Europe-UK, the exchange rate is hurting, but hopefully you prepared for that. And the partner-caretaker soon becomes the biggest insurance policy of all.

[StevieH]

Veering back on topic, we do need to differentiate between at least three kinds of expats

1. The young under-30 with little more than a sex partner, maybe teaching English

2. Over 30, settled in, working full time, a real life partner and maybe one to four kids

3. Retired, any kids are all adults and gone. You're over 60, with a partner already or destined to be your caretaker until you die

I am in group 3, but I know a few men over 50 with babies at home who fit between categories. And some working older teachers with much younger mates of either gender.

That group 3 is here to stay, since we have nothing better to go back home to. If you are from Europe-UK, the exchange rate is hurting, but hopefully you prepared for that. And the partner-caretaker soon becomes the biggest insurance policy of all.

there are far more categories of expat here than that PB. for example there are, amazingly, farang males here who have farang other halves even, and who just consider CM a lovely place to live. all the more so while the world is in the midst of a global financial collapse.

[Patriciachas]

Veering back on topic, we do need to differentiate between at least three kinds of expats

1. The young under-30 with little more than a sex partner, maybe teaching English

2. Over 30, settled in, working full time, a real life partner and maybe one to four kids

3. Retired, any kids are all adults and gone. You're over 60, with a partner already or destined to be your caretaker until you die

I am in group 3, but I know a few men over 50 with babies at home who fit between categories. And some working older teachers with much younger mates of either gender.

That group 3 is here to stay, since we have nothing better to go back home to. If you are from Europe-UK, the exchange rate is hurting, but hopefully you prepared for that. And the partner-caretaker soon becomes the biggest insurance policy of all.

We are group 3

Both mywife and myself over 50 and from uk,exchange rate not good but with a bit of forethought transfered GBP into bahts when at 66 so ok for the next 12-18 months.Also keep your 800,000 in a seperate account and you wont have to keep worrying about exchange rates.If you have not got enough money to do that you should not be here.