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Exodus: Expatriates Leaving Chiang Mai And Environs


Mapguy

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What I don't understand is where are these expats going to go if they can't afford to live in CM? I understand Korean students not coming to CM and expats who lose their jobs here, leaving for "home".

But if the Australian dollar and GBP have collapsed against the US dollar (not really against the baht), and Aussies and Brits can't afford to live here, or if a retiree has lost his life savings because of the stock market, how are they going to afford to live in the west if they can't afford to live here? Unless they're going to move in with their kids, they're stuck here. I'd certainly rather be poor here than poor in the west.

I think the opposite. I would rather be poor in the West than poor in Thailand.

At least in my country when times are bad, I can work as many jobs as I need, receive health benefits if I get sick, take out a bank loan according to my earnings if I`m low on money, maybe borrow money from family and friends if I become desperate and claim social security if I am out of work. None of it good but at least I won`t starve, end up on the street, thrown out the country because I was not able to satisfy the immigration police or end up in jail if I let my visa expire or working illegally.to survive.

In Thailand if you fall down there are no means to pick yourself up again, we are on our own. No money, no honey, sweet FA and dont slam the door on your way out, that`s Thailand.

And Loaded is so right in his post above.

Edited by Beetlejuice
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Well I agree to some extent but I still believe it is overall much cheaper to live in Thailand than in the UK. The UK tax is so much higher, incl. community charges, as well as transport, food, heating, cost of entertainment like cinemas, bars, restaurants etc. I agree about schooling and medical care, but who wants to wait years for treatment on the NHS when treatent is so much cheaper and quicker here. Better to live here, save up the pennies and get quicker treatment.

School is free in Thailand, but I have paid about 5,000bht in books and uniforms this year

Medical care is much faster and cheaper than the UK (once you add in travelling costs, food, car parking over the 3 months it takes to get anything done in the UK).... excluding heart transplants and similar, which most people never need.

For example

stomach infection

UK 3 day wait to see doctor, antibiotics, prescription fee 7ukp (350bht)

Thailand, walk to pharmacist, ask for antibiotics, 100bht

Root canal, post and crown

UK cost 500ukp for just the crown 25,000bht (tried to get this done in the UK for free?)

Thailand, root canal 5000bht, post 1200bht, crown 5800bht ..... total 11,000bht

The casual visitors do seem to be gone, many hotels and guesthouses empty. My local tuk-tuk driver lost the vehicle last month, couldn't make the payments. Us die hard ex-pats with wives and kiddies are never gonna move though. Of course we don't spend the amounts of money that the casual visitors do, so times will get tough for the Thai locals in the tourist business.The working girls are pathetically desperate, keep trying to move in with my single pals just for room and board.

Edited by sarahsbloke
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this coming school year, prem will be very lucky to have 400 students, considering their capacity is 600, it's one heck of a drop in terms of income, mind you they havn't had 600 students i would guess for a few years now, which makes their increase in school fees by 3% nonsensical, considering that any large organisation including prem,should first look at staffing levels, which i believe is high on their agenda, along with other cost cutting items, without reducing what quality is already there, if of course there is the quality, mmmmmm.

cmis however have a waiting list for students, there capacity being 400, and of course much reduced term fees, but you cant compare their overall facilities to prems,[ that however may change in the next few years if what they want to do materialises] but can you compare the quality of teaching, answers on a postcard please.

the general fees of prem is neatly associated with the IB system prem use,with their claim 'thats its an expensive system to operate' the only school i believe in chiangmai to offer that creditation.

i suppose it depends whether you hang your hat on the IB as the be all and end all of creditations, i certainly think prem do, but there again they would have to wouldn't they.

Prem never had 600 students or even 500 did they? The highest I ever heard was about 470 with last year around 440. Anyone else have more accurate numbers? Mapguy, what is the "way down" number?

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Doppa has pretty much nailed it for projected enrollment. I believe at one point two years ago Prem was at 474, so from there to about 400 is a pretty significant drop, and some staff have been let go. I suggest Bill97 call the school.

By the way, the school has changed its name to PTIS International School for basically political reasons. That leads one to wonder about the overall impact of an unsettled social scene nationally as well as economic factors. One hopes that the reconciliation route will be successful, but discussion of that is for another thread of several. Here, I hope that the question remains the impact of both social and economic factors on Chiang Mai.

Edited by Mapguy
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One thing that I find interesting about this fairly old thread is that I can not think of anyone (that has been around for a while) who has actually left CM and I run into a lot of people.

I also do not notice any more than the usual number of short-timers getting rid of their books to leave the country. Of course, there are a lot of people that I have never met who could be leaving, but it certainly does not seem like an "Exodus" to me. In fact, I constantly meet new people just arriving and expats from other countries (China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, Bali) who are planning to move here.

As someone mentioned, where are you going to go with cheaper rents, decent meals for 30 baht, friendly women and all the good things for Westerners that we have in Chiang Mai?

@ UG

Yes, there are always more complainers than people who take action. The conclusion however isn't that things aren't going downhill as per their complaints (though the complaints do tend to be exaggerated). The baht is stronger, inflation higher, political jitters, increased burglaries (anecdotally speaking, since figures are hard to come by), more reports of rip-offs (thought personally, I haven't seen any increase), etc. Unexamined perceptions influence judgement. When one part o your life isn't going well, you tend to see gremlins everywhere.

So why aren't these complainers moving out en-mass? Because things are equally bad, if not worse elsewhere, though the components of the badness may be different. A more sober examination before uprooting to perceived greener pastures brings them back down to earth. There may be other things holding them here like family, or that they'd burned their bridges back home —sold their business, quit their jobs, etc.

On the other side of the balance sheet is that some things are getting better: more choices, cheaper flights, more reliable and faster internet, better roads and underpasses, lower phone bills, lower import duties, the improving quality of international schools (at least the one my kids go to, but I suspect all of them), taxis (remember when there were no taxis?—not that long ago), MealsOnWheels, California Wow, the online Applestore, the improved Thaivisa software, Spicy Bollywood, etc. Everyone will have their own list if they think about it. I'm always grateful for people like UG who, like caped crusaders against self-induced depressives, are always around to accentuate the positives.

Each of us has to make decisions based on their circumstances, and then make the best of it from there. I'm reminded of a quote that goes something like: "Life is like a game of chess. We are free to make the first move. Subsequent moves are constrained by earlier moves; we can't escape the consequences of our actions."

I'm less bothered by whiners than you are, UG. But I'd probably feel different if it were me sitting in my shop, (literally) minding my own business and people kept coming in with the same whining song and dance and I couldn't just click away to another topic like on a forum. :)

This thread began eighteen months ago. Like UG, I haven't noticed a big exodus. Sure, some may have left, but others have taken their place. If the greater availability and variety of muesli on supermarket shelves (my rough indicator of expat population size) is a guide, I'd say there are more expats here than eighteen months ago.

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I am glad to see that UG has resurrected this thread. Time for an update. And I would be very interested to hear how Pim's survey has evolved.

Anyway, just to get things started again...

Casually, I hear of a slower market generally in real estate, some restaurants closing (such as Mi Casa), slow business in the general retail sector, some recovery in the industrial zone but reticence in adding managerial staff from abroad, and --- re schools --- Payap still in the enrollment doldrums but recovering slightly and at least one international school (Prem $$$$) way down on enrollment.

It does seem that a lots of "old hands" are simply hunkering down. It does seem that some popular eateries are not hurting, and so on. There actually seems to be a huge number of new sushi places! Pubs? I really don't know.

What about retirees? Is that group holding steady or actually increasing? Other groups --- not tourists or long-term seasonal visitors --- that are here for longer ?

Last year, Payap had about 350 students. I don't know what the likely number will be for this upcoming term. I know that their aim is to eventually have 500 and are developing their facilities to accommodate that number. They have a lot of Korean students and so no doubt when you started this thread eighteen months ago, with the drop of the Won, they would have lost some Korean students. They've increased their high school fees by almost 24% (from 186k inclusive of lunch to 220k excluding lunch), although overall on a historical trend, it's still 6-7% a year, which is slightly above, but still more or less in line with private education cost increases elsewhere in Thailand and abroad. When they offered existing students the opportunity to pay last year's fee if they paid for the full year and before the end of May, many, perhaps most, parents took them up on the offer. I was told that some parents offered to pay five years in advance if it meant they could still pay last year's fee.

Meanwhile, Waree have opened an international wing and have expansion plans in the works. No doubt more and more Thai parents are now opting for international school, but still expat and mixed race kids are in the majority. I doubt Payap and Waree would be investing the significant sums they are doing without some solid indicators that enrollment is rising and will continue to do so. In other words, the expat population is likely not in decline.

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Social Security, free medical care, free schooling and the prospect of them or their spouse finding some kind of work are four reasons. Also some folks do still have property in the UK and at some stage the diminished baht value of the rent it currently earns becomes less valuable than going back to live in it. True many things are much cheaper here but for a UK or Australian living on investments and a pension, baht income could be 40% or more down on last year and although I haven't done the sums I'm guessing that the overall cost of being back in the UK (assuming you do have a place to live) is probably not so much higher.

I'm not planning to go home but I don't rate it as so far fetched as I did six months ago. I'm sure my patch of Devon could use another Thai restaurant!

yep those are the reasons.

Sorry. I was specifically talking about retirees and didn't realize how many of them are now supporting school-age children.

I also didn't realize that Aussies and Brits could not collect their Social Security payment if they lived in Thailand. All Americans can collect their Social Security while here in Thailand. Medical insurance is much cheaper here and certainly the care received here is better than Medicare in the US.

I also doubt that any Thai spouses will get good jobs in America with the current state of the economy. Is it better in Australia and the UK?

And if anyone has free and clear property in the UK, wouldn't they be better off selling it and living off the proceeds here in CM?

I still don't understand -- if you have money life is better in Thailand, but if you're broke life is better in the UK or Australia. To me. that's backwards.

The medical care here is better than what US Medicare Program delivers? Do you wish to elaborate or this is just sheer speculation on your part? I will immediately tell the many thai residents and doctors to stop going to the US for their post graduate residency programs and other state of the art training courses because care is better here. Thank God they don't copy western medical practices to the tee or at least in theory minus of course those dam_n peer review, QA and other regulatory requirements the US has. Tell us what you know about Thai peer review and how doctors' care is monitored/repremanded by regulatory/gov agencies? Is Thailand now up to five hospitals to earn international accreditation? All I believe in the last ten years...

You really might wish to think twice about off the wall opinions without some inkling of thought and knowledge.. So what you are saying is medical care not service is better for the Thai population 65 and over at gov hospitals compared to what the US Medicare Program provides for the same age group at their choice of private/public hospitals?

I wonder if you have ever stepped foot in a Thai Public hospital or maybe you got lucky that one time the fire exit was blocked by the 155 people in the hallway leading to the registration counter?

If you know what JCAHO stands for, I will be shocked (based totally on you one remark).....

CB

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I think it has more to do with the casual visitor versus the long term expats. After being the former for 10 years or so I retired and moved to CM late last year. When you live here, as previously mentioned, you just don't spend the money the short time visitor does. I doesn't take long to find where to go and more importantly where not to go to keep your cost of living down.

That being said In my short time here I haven't noticed much of a change in the expat community either but it appears to me that there has been a big drop off in casual visitors. And lots of real estate has gone empty. In the past I've mostly planned my trips to Thailand during the low season, and I've never found it this "low". Maybe some of the expat veterans will have a different perspective but I think the key maybe whether or not things pick up this fall as usual or if recent events have put people off traveling to Thailand for an extended period?

cr

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The medical care here is better than what US Medicare Program delivers? Do you wish to elaborate or this is just sheer speculation on your part? I will immediately tell the many thai residents and doctors to stop going to the US for their post graduate residency programs and other state of the art training courses because care is better here. ....

the medical care here is affordable. the physical exam i had last week for a work permit cost

the equivalent of US$20. that same exam in the states can cost up to $800. situation stateside

is not too good lately in terms of healthcare...and that's for those fortunate enough to have

insurance. even paying full cost for major surgery here at the international hospitals can

be cheaper than the co-pay to your stateside insurance for the same procedure.

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@ UG

Yes, there are always more complainers than people who take action. The conclusion however isn't that things aren't going downhill as per their complaints (though the complaints do tend to be exaggerated). The baht is stronger, inflation higher, political jitters, increased burglaries (anecdotally speaking, since figures are hard to come by), more reports of rip-offs (thought personally, I haven't seen any increase), etc. Unexamined perceptions influence judgement. When one part o your life isn't going well, you tend to see gremlins everywhere.

When I moved here 18 months ago I was getting 51bht to the UKP

3 months later it went to 54bht to the UKP

6 months ago it was 46bht to the UKP

Today we were at 50bht to the UKP

So the currency is pretty much back to where it was 18 months ago ....... all indications show it will hit 54 again this year, last years high.

The doom and gloomers seem to have got their currency predictions entirely wrong (remember 'we will never see 50bht to the pound again')

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@ UG

Yes, there are always more complainers than people who take action. The conclusion however isn't that things aren't going downhill as per their complaints (though the complaints do tend to be exaggerated). The baht is stronger, inflation higher, political jitters, increased burglaries (anecdotally speaking, since figures are hard to come by), more reports of rip-offs (thought personally, I haven't seen any increase), etc. Unexamined perceptions influence judgement. When one part o your life isn't going well, you tend to see gremlins everywhere.

When I moved here 18 months ago I was getting 51bht to the UKP

3 months later it went to 54bht to the UKP

6 months ago it was 46bht to the UKP

Today we were at 50bht to the UKP

So the currency is pretty much back to where it was 18 months ago ....... all indications show it will hit 54 again this year, last years high.

The doom and gloomers seem to have got their currency predictions entirely wrong (remember 'we will never see 50bht to the pound again')

Can not say the same about the $Australia it was 33 before the big depression then it went down to 24 now its up to 28.

The trouble it is always works around the USA$.

Hope it keeps going up :)

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I'm less bothered by whiners than you are, UG. But I'd probably feel different if it were me sitting in my shop, (literally) minding my own business and people kept coming in with the same whining song and dance and I couldn't just click away to another topic like on a forum. :)

That is the funny thing. I hardly meet anyone who expresses the sentiments that seem almost standard on Thai Visa. Almost everyone I talk to in the real world is grateful to be living here and might complain about this or that, but they do not condemn the whole country - nothing like on here.

By the way, I moan about all kinds of inconveniences - it is not easy living in a different culture with a very difficult language - but I also thank my lucky stars that I get to live somewhere where I am content, that is so easygoing and so much fun.

I agree that the economy is what is driving a lot of people to despair and the conspiracy theorists are really reaping the benefits - people are scared - but it does not do any good to be too paranoid as it benefits no one.

I have noticed that some people who used to be positive about life in Thailand, but have stopped working and have nothing to do, tend to give me the Thai Visa "everything sucks" rap - which is one reason I intend to keep on working as long as I can. :D

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@ UG

Yes, there are always more complainers than people who take action. The conclusion however isn't that things aren't going downhill as per their complaints (though the complaints do tend to be exaggerated). The baht is stronger, inflation higher, political jitters, increased burglaries (anecdotally speaking, since figures are hard to come by), more reports of rip-offs (thought personally, I haven't seen any increase), etc. Unexamined perceptions influence judgement. When one part o your life isn't going well, you tend to see gremlins everywhere.

When I moved here 18 months ago I was getting 51bht to the UKP

3 months later it went to 54bht to the UKP

6 months ago it was 46bht to the UKP

Today we were at 50bht to the UKP

So the currency is pretty much back to where it was 18 months ago ....... all indications show it will hit 54 again this year, last years high.

The doom and gloomers seem to have got their currency predictions entirely wrong (remember 'we will never see 50bht to the pound again')

Can not say the same about the $Australia it was 33 before the big depression then it went down to 24 now its up to 28.

The trouble it is always works around the USA$.

Hope it keeps going up :)

The Oz dollar constantly volatility is a mystery.Economy is strong,Unemployment down to 5% and minerals going out of the country in increasing boat loads. With it of course inflation making it very difficult for retirees to lead a comfortable life unless they are really cashed up. I don't think you will find too many Aussies wanting to return "home", unless for a holiday, most realise they are on a good wicket living here in Chiang mai.

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According to the Chang Rai section, everyone is moving there

because the quality of live is so much better than Chiang Mai.

I like Chiang Rai and if they removed all the traffic lights I'd like it even better. Still. it's a small city that feels like a big city. Chiang Mai by comparison (IMO) is a larger city that feels like a smaller city. Practically speaking I can go fom downtown to the wilderness (sort of) from Chiang mai in about 20 minutes. From downtown Chiang Rai, maybe an hour. Still it's a great town and I imagine anyone that lives there enjoys it immensely.

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I don't know that Chiang Mai is cheaper to be honest mate.

Costs wise, there's not that much difference to Bangkok in many regards.

I'd not like to be operating a business reliant on tourist $ at the moment as trips abroad are the first thing people disregard in these times.

Chiang Mai has always been the 'extra' option also. I.e. people go to Bangkok and then to see a beach...Chiang Mai is always the extra three days they throw on while they're in the mood and spending. That kind of tourist will drop off considerably.

Purely personally, I'd be happy if tourists dropped off as I kind of like things quite and relaxed. However, I realise that a lot of people's livelihoods depend on tourist $.

It's going to be a difficult few years IMO.

I myself have considered Bali for the last few years. We go every year and I find the cost the same as Chiang Mai. I can spend as much as I want or as little as I want. The one big thing against going there is money. My Canadian dollar and US dollar are way down. It is like the Indonesian money is getting stronger.

$CDN way down? Hardly.

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I'm less bothered by whiners than you are, UG. But I'd probably feel different if it were me sitting in my shop, (literally) minding my own business and people kept coming in with the same whining song and dance and I couldn't just click away to another topic like on a forum. :)

That is the funny thing. I hardly meet anyone who expresses the sentiments that seem almost standard on Thai Visa. Almost everyone I talk to in the real world is grateful to be living here and might complain about this or that, but they do not condemn the whole country - nothing like on here.

By the way, I moan about all kinds of inconveniences - it is not easy living in a different culture with a very difficult language - but I also thank my lucky stars that I get to live somewhere where I am content, that is so easygoing and so much fun.

I agree that the economy is what is driving a lot of people to despair and the conspiracy theorists are really reaping the benefits - people are scared - but it does not do any good to be too paranoid as it benefits no one.

I have noticed that some people who used to be positive about life in Thailand, but have stopped working and have nothing to do, tend to give me the Thai Visa "everything sucks" rap - which is one reason I intend to keep on working as long as I can. :D

"Almost everyone I talk to in the real world is grateful to be living here and might complain about this or that, but they do not condemn the whole country - nothing like on here."

That's good to know. Makes me less apprehensive about meeting new people. :D

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The medical care here is better than what US Medicare Program delivers? Do you wish to elaborate or this is just sheer speculation on your part? I will immediately tell the many thai residents and doctors to stop going to the US for their post graduate residency programs and other state of the art training courses because care is better here.

Medical training, as well as other types of educational opportunities, are better in the west than in Thailand. And the few top drawer hospitals and the specialty cutting edge research institutions like the Mayo Clinic or the Fred Hutchinson Cancer clinic are better than anything in Thailand. So one can get state of the art training in the US, but it is far more difficult to get state of the art care in the US. So for the general aging population, the better western oriented hospitals in Thailand such as Bamrungrat in Bangkok and even Chiang Mai Ram, are far better than most hospitals in the US and at a fraction of the cost.

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I'm less bothered by whiners than you are, UG. But I'd probably feel different if it were me sitting in my shop, (literally) minding my own business and people kept coming in with the same whining song and dance and I couldn't just click away to another topic like on a forum. :)

That is the funny thing. I hardly meet anyone who expresses the sentiments that seem almost standard on Thai Visa. Almost everyone I talk to in the real world is grateful to be living here and might complain about this or that, but they do not condemn the whole country - nothing like on here.

By the way, I moan about all kinds of inconveniences - it is not easy living in a different culture with a very difficult language - but I also thank my lucky stars that I get to live somewhere where I am content, that is so easygoing and so much fun.

I agree that the economy is what is driving a lot of people to despair and the conspiracy theorists are really reaping the benefits - people are scared - but it does not do any good to be too paranoid as it benefits no one.

I have noticed that some people who used to be positive about life in Thailand, but have stopped working and have nothing to do, tend to give me the Thai Visa "everything sucks" rap - which is one reason I intend to keep on working as long as I can. :D

I am also happy. Like UG, I thank my stars. I am glad I am here. But (This will be of no surprise if you have been around for about three years!) I disagree with UG about some things. This --- TV Chiang Mai --- is as real a world as any; perhaps a few more nutty people because of people whose only company is a computer. As well, many people --- even farang (!) --- find it difficult to complain in public, so a forum such as this can collect a lot of people, not all of whom are paranoid or misanthropic by nature, who feel a little grumpy from time to time and let it all hang out a bit under cover.

But, since this is not really a thread (and I am, after all, the OP) for philosophical comment, I hope that people will stay focused on if and if not, and why or why not, expats are leaving Chiang Mai.

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Veering back on topic, we do need to differentiate between at least three kinds of expats

1. The young under-30 with little more than a sex partner, maybe teaching English

2. Over 30, settled in, working full time, a real life partner and maybe one to four kids

3. Retired, any kids are all adults and gone. You're over 60, with a partner already or destined to be your caretaker until you die

I am in group 3, but I know a few men over 50 with babies at home who fit between categories. And some working older teachers with much younger mates of either gender.

That group 3 is here to stay, since we have nothing better to go back home to. If you are from Europe-UK, the exchange rate is hurting, but hopefully you prepared for that. And the partner-caretaker soon becomes the biggest insurance policy of all.

We are group 3

Both mywife and myself over 50 and from uk,exchange rate not good but with a bit of forethought transfered GBP into bahts when at 66 so ok for the next 12-18 months.Also keep your 800,000 in a seperate account and you wont have to keep worrying about exchange rates.If you have not got enough money to do that you should not be here.

I am in group 3 sort of. I am 68 and the wife is 53 I might have to take care of her.:lol:

800,000 in a separate account if you don't have enough money to completely ignore 800,000 baht you shouldn't be here.

Well I don't but I would be willing to bet that I have a heck of a lot more guaranteed income than you. I didn't have to run scared silly to get money here when the exchange is high. In 12 to 18 months I will not have a problem. Sounds like you might.

I am trying to get that much in a joint account with the wife so if I die she will have enough to burn me up and live until the insurance money from back home reaches her. I would want her to live in the style I have been able to show her while she continues to take care of her mother.

Edited by jayjay0
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Veering back on topic, we do need to differentiate between at least three kinds of expats

1. The young under-30 with little more than a sex partner, maybe teaching English

2. Over 30, settled in, working full time, a real life partner and maybe one to four kids

3. Retired, any kids are all adults and gone. You're over 60, with a partner already or destined to be your caretaker until you die

I am in group 3, but I know a few men over 50 with babies at home who fit between categories. And some working older teachers with much younger mates of either gender.

That group 3 is here to stay, since we have nothing better to go back home to. If you are from Europe-UK, the exchange rate is hurting, but hopefully you prepared for that. And the partner-caretaker soon becomes the biggest insurance policy of all.

Slightly more catagories than 3! but anyway.. I'm 50 and avoid much of the rate problems by owning some condos thereby getting some 'local' income - many expats do that.

I would starve on that income.

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Well I agree to some extent but I still believe it is overall much cheaper to live in Thailand than in the UK. The UK tax is so much higher, incl. community charges, as well as transport, food, heating, cost of entertainment like cinemas, bars, restaurants etc. I agree about schooling and medical care, but who wants to wait years for treatment on the NHS when treatent is so much cheaper and quicker here. Better to live here, save up the pennies and get quicker treatment.

School is free in Thailand, but I have paid about 5,000bht in books and uniforms this year

Medical care is much faster and cheaper than the UK (once you add in travelling costs, food, car parking over the 3 months it takes to get anything done in the UK).... excluding heart transplants and similar, which most people never need.

For example

stomach infection

UK 3 day wait to see doctor, antibiotics, prescription fee 7ukp (350bht)

Thailand, walk to pharmacist, ask for antibiotics, 100bht

Root canal, post and crown

UK cost 500ukp for just the crown 25,000bht (tried to get this done in the UK for free?)

Thailand, root canal 5000bht, post 1200bht, crown 5800bht ..... total 11,000bht

The casual visitors do seem to be gone, many hotels and guesthouses empty. My local tuk-tuk driver lost the vehicle last month, couldn't make the payments. Us die hard ex-pats with wives and kiddies are never gonna move though. Of course we don't spend the amounts of money that the casual visitors do, so times will get tough for the Thai locals in the tourist business.The working girls are pathetically desperate, keep trying to move in with my single pals just for room and board.

Root canal, post and crown

UK cost 500ukp for just the crown 25,000bht (tried to get this done in the UK for free?)

Thailand, root canal 5000bht, post 1200bht, crown 5800bht ..... total 11,000bht

Where did you get that price I was quoted from 16,500 to 18,500 baht depending on my choice of material. We just had a local Tuk Tuk driver lose his because he went and borrowed against it. I have noticed a lot less Tuk Tuk's in our area lately. One who was always there in the morning [unless he had a fare] has not been there in the morning he works for a couple of hours in the morning at a hospital

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I'm less bothered by whiners than you are, UG. But I'd probably feel different if it were me sitting in my shop, (literally) minding my own business and people kept coming in with the same whining song and dance and I couldn't just click away to another topic like on a forum. :)

That is the funny thing. I hardly meet anyone who expresses the sentiments that seem almost standard on Thai Visa. Almost everyone I talk to in the real world is grateful to be living here and might complain about this or that, but they do not condemn the whole country - nothing like on here.

By the way, I moan about all kinds of inconveniences - it is not easy living in a different culture with a very difficult language - but I also thank my lucky stars that I get to live somewhere where I am content, that is so easygoing and so much fun.

I agree that the economy is what is driving a lot of people to despair and the conspiracy theorists are really reaping the benefits - people are scared - but it does not do any good to be too paranoid as it benefits no one.

I have noticed that some people who used to be positive about life in Thailand, but have stopped working and have nothing to do, tend to give me the Thai Visa "everything sucks" rap - which is one reason I intend to keep on working as long as I can. :D

That has not been my experience I have met several whiners and when I suggested they go home they came up with the usual excuses money [ They didn't plan ahead or mishandled what they had ] and kids. The one with kids condemns every single Thai and when I pointed out he lives with one the conversation ended. Still don't know how he managed to live in such adverse conditions long enough to get two kids

Ugh Yuk Ugh Yuk you said " I intend to keep on working as long as I can." Ugh Yuk Ugh Yuk are you trying to scare me. If I had to work it would be where I could make a lot more than I can here Ugh Yuk:(

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I don't know that Chiang Mai is cheaper to be honest mate.

Costs wise, there's not that much difference to Bangkok in many regards.

I'd not like to be operating a business reliant on tourist $ at the moment as trips abroad are the first thing people disregard in these times.

Chiang Mai has always been the 'extra' option also. I.e. people go to Bangkok and then to see a beach...Chiang Mai is always the extra three days they throw on while they're in the mood and spending. That kind of tourist will drop off considerably.

Purely personally, I'd be happy if tourists dropped off as I kind of like things quite and relaxed. However, I realise that a lot of people's livelihoods depend on tourist $.

It's going to be a difficult few years IMO.

I myself have considered Bali for the last few years. We go every year and I find the cost the same as Chiang Mai. I can spend as much as I want or as little as I want. The one big thing against going there is money. My Canadian dollar and US dollar are way down. It is like the Indonesian money is getting stronger.

$CDN way down? Hardly.

It is in Indonesia. Or you could be rite and the Indonesian rupiah is way up.

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Root canal, post and crown

UK cost 500ukp for just the crown 25,000bht (tried to get this done in the UK for free?)

Thailand, root canal 5000bht, post 1200bht, crown 5800bht ..... total 12,000bht

Where did you get that price I was quoted from 16,500 to 18,500 baht depending on my choice of material. We just had a local Tuk Tuk driver lose his because he went and borrowed against it. I have noticed a lot less Tuk Tuk's in our area lately. One who was always there in the morning [unless he had a fare] has not been there in the morning he works for a couple of hours in the morning at a hospital

Lamberton Dental Clinic, on the 118 to Chang Rai, Just after the second ring, opposite the covered market, 053490779

Run by an elderly American Dentist, very nice young Thai male dentist who also speaks perfect English.

Did you spot my error 5k +1k2 +5k8 = 12,000bht (DOH!)

Edited by sarahsbloke
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Well the title of this topic is Expatriates Leaving Chiang Mai And Environs, and i assumed that when i started reading it it would contain many posters saying they were leaving or they new of some one leaving (For what ever reasons) but in reality i have come across no one who is leaving or knows of any one leaving.

So it must be a great place.

I for one left chiang mai last week to visit Issan never sad about leaving Chiang Mai but always happy to come back.

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Well the title of this topic is Expatriates Leaving Chiang Mai And Environs, and i assumed that when i started reading it it would contain many posters saying they were leaving or they new of some one leaving (For what ever reasons) but in reality i have come across no one who is leaving or knows of any one leaving.

So it must be a great place.

I for one left chiang mai last week to visit Issan never sad about leaving Chiang Mai but always happy to come back.

Funny I posted about one and gave a entirely different reason than the generally excepted reasons. It was completely ignored while in my opinion there was way to much on schools talked about here. As far as I am concerned that is another subject. I personally have a hard time considering some one who is here only for the schools a expat. They obviously had no intention of staying any how.

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I'm less bothered by whiners than you are, UG. But I'd probably feel different if it were me sitting in my shop, (literally) minding my own business and people kept coming in with the same whining song and dance and I couldn't just click away to another topic like on a forum. :)

That is the funny thing. I hardly meet anyone who expresses the sentiments that seem almost standard on Thai Visa. Almost everyone I talk to in the real world is grateful to be living here and might complain about this or that, but they do not condemn the whole country - nothing like on here.

By the way, I moan about all kinds of inconveniences - it is not easy living in a different culture with a very difficult language - but I also thank my lucky stars that I get to live somewhere where I am content, that is so easygoing and so much fun.

I agree that the economy is what is driving a lot of people to despair and the conspiracy theorists are really reaping the benefits - people are scared - but it does not do any good to be too paranoid as it benefits no one.

I have noticed that some people who used to be positive about life in Thailand, but have stopped working and have nothing to do, tend to give me the Thai Visa "everything sucks" rap - which is one reason I intend to keep on working as long as I can. :D

That has not been my experience I have met several whiners and when I suggested they go home they came up with the usual excuses money [ They didn't plan ahead or mishandled what they had ] and kids. The one with kids condemns every single Thai and when I pointed out he lives with one the conversation ended. Still don't know how he managed to live in such adverse conditions long enough to get two kids

Ugh Yuk Ugh Yuk you said " I intend to keep on working as long as I can." Ugh Yuk Ugh Yuk are you trying to scare me. If I had to work it would be where I could make a lot more than I can here Ugh Yuk:(

Well, maybe my situation is not normal for most,but it makes me happy.

I am retired [in theory, at least in my definition of retirement]. This is my 3rd time trying out the retirement program. This time I am down close to perfection , for me at least. I am down to about 14 hrs per day and 7 days per week , and couldn't be happier. I have called Thailand home now for over 20 years and yes I bitch and moan, cuz thats part of living. But, I couldn't be happier here nor could I tell you of any place that I would rather be.

I have a good vocation, a good family, good med care, enough money to live modestly as I choose, GREAT Food, and an overall happy life.

I know that I am one who could not quit working, and hope and pray that I am never forced into a situation where I have to. Yes , as I said, I do my share of bitching and moaning about this and that, but in reality I am very content and am not planning any departure in any for-see-able future.

Gonzo

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Doppa has pretty much nailed it for projected enrollment. I believe at one point two years ago Prem was at 474, so from there to about 400 is a pretty significant drop, and some staff have been let go. I suggest Bill97 call the school.

By the way, the school has changed its name to PTIS International School for basically political reasons. That leads one to wonder about the overall impact of an unsettled social scene nationally as well as economic factors. One hopes that the reconciliation route will be successful, but discussion of that is for another thread of several. Here, I hope that the question remains the impact of both social and economic factors on Chiang Mai.

Thanks Mapguy. 10% a year for a few years is significant. Apple keeps selling more computers and they are expensive too.

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