Thaksin To Be Indicted For Lese Majeste

[Journalist]

^ Its for the courts to decide ! (Though Rule #15 of the Forum means I can't print my opinion concerning the impartiality of the Thai Courts)

However, 'urge' is to 'demand';

what

'beseech' is to 'order'.

Its a significant difference to what the B.P reported.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Journalist

[rixalex]

^ Its for the courts to decide !

Aware of that. I asked for your opinion.

[DaleBlue]

The word Thaksin used in the Sky News interview is "urge" . Its there in black and white.

Which I think we all know does not mean 'demand' ......

Journalist, do you think it's Thaksin's place, as a convicted criminal who has fled the country, to either be urging or demanding anything of the King?

Whether legal or not, i just think that making requests in public of His Majesty is inappropriate and disrespectful.

A poor farmer in Issan was so upset that the absence of rain has destroy all his crops. He urge the King to provide Royal Rain to his Province. Next, he was sent to 15 years jail for LM. Royal Rain will be provided as the king see fit. No one can demand that from the king. Of cause I made this story up, just for comparsion.

[DaleBlue]

It didn't go unnoticed - Thaksin asking for royal intervention to solve the crisis, that much was reported in local media. If there are LM charges coming with this - he got what he deserved.

Didn't PAD also ask for royal intervention a few years ago?

http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/03/26/hea...es_30000238.php

So the score is one all.

The law should be used to protect the monarchy...not settle political scores.

Agree that the law should be used to protect the monarchy. But above that, the law should be fair to ALL. PAD request of the king is no different from Thaksin request.

[Journalist]

^ Its for the courts to decide !

Aware of that. I asked for your opinion.

I think its okay to 'urge' but not to 'demand'.

Urging does not strike me as being the act of an insubordinate subject, and is suitably fawning and non-insulting, whether directed at Kings, Popes, The Lord of 10000 years, The Mikado, or the Son of the Sun.

[animatic]

^ Its for the courts to decide ! (Though Rule #15 of the Forum means I can't print my opinion concerning the impartiality of the Thai Courts)

However, 'urge' is to 'demand';

what

'beseech' is to 'order'.

Its a significant difference to what the B.P reported.

And significantly a poor choice of word for this occasion.

Urge

Urge\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Urged; p. pr. & vb. n. Urging.] [L. urgere; akin to E. wreak. See Wreak, v. t.]

1. To press; to push; to drive; to impel; to force onward.

Through the thick deserts headlong urged his flight. --Pope.

2. To press the mind or will of; to ply with motives, arguments, persuasion, or importunity.

My brother never Did urge me in his act; I did inquire it. --Shak.

3. To provoke; to exasperate. [R.]

Urge not my father's anger. --Shak.

4. To press hard upon; to follow closely

Heir urges heir, like wave impelling wave. --Pope.

5. To present in an urgent manner; to press upon attention; to insist upon; as, to urge an argument; to urge the necessity of a case.

6. To treat with forcible means; to take severe or violent measures with; as, to urge an ore with intense heat.

Syn: To animate; incite; impel; instigate; stimulate; encourage.

Urge

Urge\, v. i. 1. To press onward or forward. [R.]

2. To be pressing in argument; to insist; to persist.

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996

[Journalist]

Why didn't you selectively bold-type the word 'demand' in the above definition?

(because it ain't in there!)

I see 'animate' is there though !

"I ask the King to be animatic"......yikes ! Lucky he didn't say that !

Edited May 15, 2009 by Journalist

[Thai at Heart]

I tried to write an opinion, and then realised it was better not to in case it was subject to analysis.

[rixalex]

A poor farmer in Issan was so upset that the absence of rain has destroy all his crops. He urge the King to provide Royal Rain to his Province. Next, he was sent to 15 years jail for LM. Royal Rain will be provided as the king see fit. No one can demand that from the king. Of cause I made this story up, just for comparsion.

Thanks for that lovely story.

So you are comparing a poor farmer in Issan who is struggling to put food on the plate and in need of help to survive, with a billionaire who stole from the country, was convicted of a crime, and who fled and is in need of help to get a foothold back in the country, and all being well, a whitewashing of all cases against him?

In your mind these cases may seem alike, but that's all it is - in your mind.

[webfact]

'I'm innocent': Thaksin

By The Nation

Published on May 16, 2009

Fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday issued a statement insisting on his innocence in light of police proceedings to indict him for lese majeste.

"Although I am living in exile abroad, I am a Thai citizen who is staunchly loyal to Their Majesties the King and Queen," Thaksin said in the statement released in Bangkok by Noppadon Pattama, his legal adviser.

He said the accusation that he had insulted the monarchy was unfair and contrary to reality.

None of his remarks had been intended to offend the monarchy, he said.

Thaksin said he fully respected the monarchy and understood it to be a most revered institution in Thailand, beloved by every Thai citizen.

A smear campaign exists to persecute him and paint him as disloyal, he said, adding that public prosecutors had thus far dropped all charges related to lese majeste.

The ousted prime minister reminded all parties concerned that national reconciliation could not be realised if injustice prevailed and said his opponents should stop trying to cement his political downfall with trumped-up charges.

He vowed to fight to prove his innocence to the full extent of the law.

Edited May 16, 2009 by webfact

[Artisi]

"He vowed to fight to prove his innocence to the full extent of the law"

Returning to Thailand, so that he can fight his innocence using the full extent of the law will be a great start - just hope there is no one holding their breath for this to happen.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Artisi

[Journalist]

A poor farmer in Issan was so upset that the absence of rain has destroy all his crops. He urge the King to provide Royal Rain to his Province. Next, he was sent to 15 years jail for LM. Royal Rain will be provided as the king see fit. No one can demand that from the king. Of cause I made this story up, just for comparsion.

Thanks for that lovely story.

So you are comparing a poor farmer in Issan who is struggling to put food on the plate and in need of help to survive, with a billionaire who stole from the country, was convicted of a crime, and who fled and is in need of help to get a foothold back in the country, and all being well, a whitewashing of all cases against him?

In your mind these cases may seem alike, but that's all it is - in your mind.

You did ask us for our opinions. Are we not allowed to hold opinions that deviate from your personal biases ? Obviously not.

A billionaire or a pauper 'urging' a King to act should be treated equally in the Law.

Fact is, as well as making himself wealthy, Thaksin's business gave employment to tens of thousands of Thais. He created a good living for many of those people and dividends to minority shareholders, - Thai investors. Shin Corp paid taxes that went into the state coffers.

He accomplished something.

There is an enormous amount of jealousy - tall poppy syndrome - directed towards rich tycoons and self-made men from people who will never amount to much. That accounts for a certain % of the animosity voiced towards Thaksin.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Journalist

[rixalex]

A billionaire or a pauper 'urging' a King to act should be treated equally in the Law.

Not if the billionaire is a convicted criminal who has run from justice.

[Journalist]

That may be how it works in Rixalex-land.

But in the real world each charge is separate, and there's a presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

Now in the ******** ******** *********** Courts of Thailand (Rule 15 compels me to self censor), perhaps it is like Rixalex Land and decisions are tailored on a personal basis, with Thaksin in auto-guilty mode.

[BigSnake]

How will this round play out, if he is brought to justice in the Kindgom(?)

[rixalex]

But in the real world each charge is separate, and there's a presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

But he has been found guilty and even if, like you, he has a low opinion of the justice system, why accept their rulings when they find in his favour, but not when they rule against? Do you think that the court process was free from interference when Thaksin was in power?

In Journalist-World it seems ok to pick and choose at your own discretion, when to abide by the court's decisions and when to ignore them and flee.

[Journalist]

^You all need to put away your delicious fantasies of Thaksin standing in the dock in a Thai court, and being taken to jail in shackles.

Of all the many plausible and implausible ways this chess game could unfold and pan out, that scenario isn't one

[Samuian]

^You all need to put away your delicious fantasies of Thaksin standing in the dock in a Thai court, and being taken to jail in shackles.

Of all the many plausible and implausible ways this chess game could unfold and pan out, that scenario isn't one

Very likely so - highly doubtful!

But he never runs out of stories he can bemoan and

can claim his innocence for eternity!

[rixalex]

^You all need to put away your delicious fantasies of Thaksin standing in the dock in a Thai court, and being taken to jail in shackles.

Of all the many plausible and implausible ways this chess game could unfold and pan out, that scenario isn't one

I agree. I'm under no illusions that Thaksin will ever face the justice he deserves - he'll no doubt evade it just as many Thai politicians and people of influence before him have done so. Just because i don't think it will happen though, doesn't stop me from feeling that it should.

[khonkaen man]

They dont really want Thaksin back, for what, to become a martyr. They will just keep discrediting him in his absence. The only way this government can stop the likes of Thaksin and his friends rising again is to change the constitution so that certain areas of thailand do not have the same voting rights as those residents in Bangkok and the south.

[Crushdepth]

which will happen as he cannot defend himself nor attend court

Yes he can. He just doesn't want to, so no sympathy from me!

[webfact]

A billionaire or a pauper 'urging' a King to act should be treated equally in the Law.

Not if the billionaire is a convicted criminal who has run from justice.

Text deleted as imporper name for Thaksin is used - mario2008

[Samuian]

A billionaire or a pauper 'urging' a King to act should be treated equally in the Law.

Not if the billionaire is a convicted criminal who has run from justice.

text deletd as improper name for Thaksin is being used - mario2008

Funny that, isn't it?

He wasn't, but his Miss went....

tell's a story too, doesn't it?

And martyr or not - I think for this countries credibility

he should be brought back and face "the music"!

And SHOW the public that he isn't Mr.DoGood, that he has committed

crimes, broke the law, used his position to enrich himself massively.... the lot!

I don't think Thai - his "followers" wouldn't understand, I think there would be

a great "Huh?"

An I don;t think he would become a martyr... sure not!

[SpoliaOpima]

"He vowed to fight to prove his innocence to the full extent of the law"

Returning to Thailand, so that he can fight his innocence using the full extent of the law will be a great start - just hope there is no one holding their breath for this to happen.

He also vowed to stay out of politics - twice. Only utter fools would believe any woulds that come out of Col Thaksin's mouth, which serve merely to distract institutions while his hands rob them blind.

Edited May 16, 2009 by SpoliaOpima

[Mario2008]

Let's stay on the topic of the LM charges.

[Jingthing]

HE IS NOT Coming back anytime soon. He cannot he does not have a vaid Passport

I am not saying he is coming back, but your statement is 100 percent wrong that he cannot come back. He can come back. Not only does he likely have multiple passports from other countries the Thai government has made it clear that he can visit any Thai embassy to receive a Thai travel document allowing him to legally board an aircraft to travel back to Thailand to face the justice system here he is too COWARDLY to face. Aside from the lm charges, he is already a convicted fugitive.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Jingthing

[Hairy]

there have been many cases in other countries where those who control the country will bring about any and all force to bear to remove any person or persons who are seen as a threat to their control

not for a direct comparison look at the erosion of freedom in the united states and the united kingdom for supposedly free countries with a free press and free speach

now you can be locked up for god knows how long without trial because you are a terrorist

Yeah, curse the U.S. for locking up those terrorists! They should be left loose to exercise their right to free political actions!

[cmsally]

CIB Commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Thangai Prassajaksattru said a committee in charge of monitoring news that damage reputation of the Royal Family decided that Thaksin had allegedly made lese majesty statement in his recent interview with a foreign website.

Thangai said the interview will be translated into Thai before the CIB will formally begin the case against Thaksin so the CIB will seek help from the Foreign Ministry for the translation.

Nation

This in the Nation's article just strikes me as really bizarre. As far as can be summised :

CIB have a committee to monitor news

In this case they have monitored foreign news (as this is where the charge comes from)

Therefore the news was in English

To process a charge they must have completely understood the language

But now to translate into Thai they have to get the help of the Foreign Ministry

If the CIB can decipher foreign news why don't they have the ability to translate into Thai?

[Samuian]

CIB Commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Thangai Prassajaksattru said a committee in charge of monitoring news that damage reputation of the Royal Family decided that Thaksin had allegedly made lese majesty statement in his recent interview with a foreign website.

Thangai said the interview will be translated into Thai before the CIB will formally begin the case against Thaksin so the CIB will seek help from the Foreign Ministry for the translation.

Nation

This in the Nation's article just strikes me as really bizarre. As far as can be summised :

CIB have a committee to monitor news

In this case they have monitored foreign news (as this is where the charge comes from)

Therefore the news was in English

To process a charge they must have completely understood the language

But now to translate into Thai they have to get the help of the Foreign Ministry

If the CIB can decipher foreign news why don't they have the ability to translate into Thai?

To get married in Banrak/Bangkok - I had to go to the Grasuang Datang Prathet -

Foreign Ministry- to have my translations authenticated by them!

Maybe it's just a legal procedure - any mistake in translation would blow the case!

Edited May 16, 2009 by Samuian

[astral]

Nothing wrong with Indicted............

In the common law legal system, an indictment (IPA: /ɪnˈdaɪtmənt/ (in-DITE-ment)) is a formal accusation that a person has committed a criminal offense.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indictment