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Oneman

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There are so many different things on the market that serve as laxatives and will give you a complete flush if your doctor recommends it.

No need to see a doctor, just reading a few posts by certain posters on TV is enough to get the deepest ingrained crap out of the system. Better than any laxative on the market.

This is a serious health matter and your snide comments are not necessary when it comes to someones health and well being. Some of us are qualified to answer in this matter.

And some (many) aren't.

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There are so many different things on the market that serve as laxatives and will give you a complete flush if your doctor recommends it.

No need to see a doctor, just reading a few posts by certain posters on TV is enough to get the deepest ingrained crap out of the system. Better than any laxative on the market.

This is a serious health matter and your snide comments are not necessary when it comes to someones health and well being. Some of us are qualified to answer in this matter.

And another point good Doctor Jungian, my snide comment never mentioned posters on this particular thread being referred to as an alternative to oral laxatives. What I did infer was that many posters on TV in general are enough to create the same result as a good strong laxative.

And yet another personal opinion is that if I had any medical issues, the last thing I would do is seek advice on any forum. There are many posters on any forum who claim to be not what they are. Present company excepted of course. :)

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I am sure that this thread will not degenerate into a factional fight between opponents and proponents of various styles of medical treatment.

I am also watching carefully that people do not start throwing personal remarks at each other.

Have fun, learn from each other but show respect for opposing views

(and the person who appends the remark "even when they are wrong" to my above will be rewarded with an extended leave from the forum

CB

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There are so many different things on the market that serve as laxatives and will give you a complete flush if your doctor recommends it.

No need to see a doctor, just reading a few posts by certain posters on TV is enough to get the deepest ingrained crap out of the system. Better than any laxative on the market.

This is a serious health matter and your snide comments are not necessary when it comes to someones health and well being. Some of us are qualified to answer in this matter.

And another point good Doctor Jungian, my snide comment never mentioned posters on this particular thread being referred to as an alternative to oral laxatives. What I did infer was that many posters on TV in general are enough to create the same result as a good strong laxative.

And yet another personal opinion is that if I had any medical issues, the last thing I would do is seek advice on any forum. There are many posters on any forum who claim to be not what they are. Present company excepted of course. :)

I would be inclined to read your opinion if you were qualified to make one in this matter. I'm sorry if I'm coming on strong but I take peoples health very seriously and the less crap (no pun intended) they have to read to get the facts the better.

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Sawasdee Khrup, Tee Vee Friends,

A few comments on this discussion :

1. for Dr. Jungian, with respect; I don't think Khun Blinky's comment was an assault on you, or your sound medical advice, just humour.

2. for Blinky Bill, with respect; an interesting comment on the possible effects, for some, of other posters : which I assume reflects your own personal experience. I have made a pledge to Ur Orang to try and never be a laxative or purgative for others, only a friend who invites other friends to spelunk with me into the caves of Venus, not Uranus. And if things get too tight, and we need to evacuate, so be it.

3. for Crow Boy, with respect, who said : "and the person who appends the remark "even when they are wrong" to my above will be rewarded with an extended leave from the forum" : I ask you to reflect on if speaking in this tone is an example of "moderation."

For everyone, with respect : may you enjoy, today, right now, the beauty of being in your human body, the modicum of health you have, the wonder of taking in a breath, and letting it out. And may your taste buds (even if ninety-percent dead, like mine) still revel in the joys of whatever brings you as much pleasure as soy milk brings me !

I personally do have many problems with the form and practices of modern "allopathic" medicine, but the problems I have are with the "manifestatons," not the light of Reason and Science informing what those "manifestations" are an attempt to embody. Without high-tech MRI scanners, tightly focused radiation beams, and deadly poisons : the most toxic of which, synthesized from a compound first found in the Yew tree, from which my ancestors made their English long-bows, I lovingly refer to as "Satan's Piss" : this body would not be here today playing host to an Orang soul-mind which is quite literally "more fun than a barrel of monkeys."

To your health !

best, ~o:37;

p.s. as a young boy (this would be 1947 - 1952) I do remember sometimes being given enemas, I'm not sure why. I think for my grandparents' generation this was not an uncommon health practice.

If you wish to be truly horrified by what the personal health practices of many educated and more than middle class English men were in the 18-19th. century read a book like the diary of James Boswell, the biographer of Samuel Johnson. Binge-eating and drinking, followed by days of purging, and frequent self-medication with everything from opiates to stimulants, to mercury, was common.

On the other hand common-sense was as "alive" in Boswell's time as now : if you have the energy use this link :

http://books.google.com/books?id=nlUVAAAAY...lt&resnum=8

And read Sam Johnson's letter of advice to Mr. Perkins dated July 28, 1782. Almost sounds like Buddhist philosophy.

Edited by orang37
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As far as why colons look "clean" when one looks at them with a medical instrument, the people who promote them say that the gluey gunk that coats the walls of the colon has simply taken on the shape of the colon itself ...........

Your caveat is spot on, U.G.

Please consider this. How likely is it that the herbally challenged mainstream medical establishment can't tell gluey gunk from normal colon when they see it, butt OTOH this is how they repair a brain aneurysm:

"A catheter is guided through a small cut in your groin to an artery and then to the small blood vessels in your brain where the aneurysm is. Thin metal wires are put into the aneurysm. They then coil up into a mesh ball. Blood clots that form around this coil prevent the aneurysm from breaking open and bleeding." And this is one of the less complicated things they do.

I'm no fan of our medical system's business practices, but I do believe they generally know what they are doing. Ass for the CI's, if it gives you a thrill, what the heck - you have nothing to lose butt some money unless you have an internal problem or bad luck. I'm not sure that's completely true either.

Cheers

A better reference than photography of the colon would be autopsies. According to Quackwatch, no such 'plaque' has ever been found.

On the other hand, UG's seed story is persuasive, if anecdotal.

I wonder how water is able to flush out the seeds, etc, when the strong peristaltic activity of the bowels cannot?

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I still wonder what all of these people who have colemas and find large amounts of rubbery, impacted matter in the catch bowl in the toilet are seeing. Where does it come from after 2 or 4 weeks of a water or juice fast and a bunch of stuff has come out regularly?

Are all the photos in books trick photography and all the people who report this liars? :)

Edited by Ulysses G.
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Actually, I have mentioned several times on here that I am not convinced that colonics are of any real value. However, I also think that it is possible that they might be helpful in some way - Doctors give patients enemas all of the time - and that they do very little harm if done correctly.

It seems to me many people who are up in arms against them have not grown up enough to see anything beyond the poo-poo jokes that they find so funny. It must be nice to be so young at heart! :)

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Not to poo poo but I AM interested in the seeds, where did they come (?) from AND the rubbery stuff, what is it? And why do people that fast report pooping many days after not eating. My nonscientific theory is the rubbery stuff may be the water soluable fiber in the fruit juice after the body absorbs the nutrients and water from the juice.

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Your theory is not a bad one, but does vegetable juice have the same water soluable fiber? Most people use carrot juice instead of fruit juice which, supposedly, can make the body acidic.

Also, people who do pure water fasts report the same results as far as rubbery stuff, but even more of it comes out.

Any reason that it would be dark brown or black and very tough after going through the digestive track so quickly?

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The problem is that the medical establishment mostly stick to their version and the holistic health folks stick to theirs.

I have met some of the top holistic health people and they are very intelligent and seem very commited to improving other's health. It is not that easy (for me) to choose sides.

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Best program I ever had was a holistic homestay program up in Pai.

You basically stay at the house of a couple at the hotsprings and they cook and care for you and provide you with colonic bags and daily support and guidance.

I think its wonders better than some resort/detox machine. but then again there are 2 different schools depending on what you need.

The website I believe http://www.thaihermityoga.com/

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Having just returned from a 7 week stint in Europe I discovered that some of the toilets in Holland are sort of back to front, the outlet of the pan is at the front unlike most others where it is at the rear for whatever is deposited to start its journey directly. This back to front system has a large collection area where whatever you deposit remains to allow you to poke and prod your way through it to discover whatever it is you might want to find. Not my cup of tea but others may find it interesting.

toilet_bowl.jpg

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The problem is that the medical establishment mostly stick to their version and the holistic health folks stick to theirs.

I have met some of the top holistic health people and they are very intelligent and seem very commited to improving other's health. It is not that easy (for me) to choose sides.

That would be true if all one did was look at their conclusions, and not the methodology by which the conclusions were reached.

The conclusions may sound equally plausible, intuitively speaking, but the difference in evidential support for each side appears to be anecdotal versus empirical.

It seems to be more a case of a 19th-century treatment that still hasn't died out, unlike bleeding someone with headaches, despite 21st-century medical research.

On the bright side, it enables people who have no medical certification to earn a living providing medical treatments :)

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The problem is that the medical establishment mostly stick to their version and the holistic health folks stick to theirs.

I have met some of the top holistic health people and they are very intelligent and seem very commited to improving other's health. It is not that easy (for me) to choose sides.

That would be true if all one did was look at their conclusions, and not the methodology by which the conclusions were reached.

The conclusions may sound equally plausible, intuitively speaking, but the difference in evidential support for each side appears to be anecdotal versus empirical.

It seems to be more a case of a 19th-century treatment that still hasn't died out, unlike bleeding someone with headaches, despite 21st-century medical research.

On the bright side, it enables people who have no medical certification to earn a living providing medical treatments :)

A good scammer or con artist IS intelligent and will seem very committed as will a dreamy new-age practitioner.

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I have met Ann Wigmore and she was neither a scammer or a a dreamy new-age practitioner. She is highly regarded and she used colonics in her health thrapy. There are also a number of medical Doctors who do avocate colonics, but they are in the minority.

Ann Wigmore was a holistic health practitioner, nutritionist, whole foods advocate, and a doctor of Divinity. With Viktoras Kulvinskas, she co-founded the Hippocrates Health Institute (rated as one of the top health resorts by the International Spa Industry). She was an early pioneer in the use of wheatgrass juice and living foods for detoxifying and healing the body, mind, and spirit.

According to her autobiography, Why Suffer?: How I Overcame Illness & Pain Naturally, she was first exposed to herbs and natural remedies as a child in Lithuania, by observing her grandmother. When Western medicine proved unable to solve her health problems as an adult, she began researching and testing various whole foods and diet approaches which, she says, not only cleared up her medical problems but changed her life.

A number of institutes carry on her work by offering educational programs and retreats, home study courses, recipes, books, and other resources, including:

Celebrities who follow a raw food diet include actress Rue McClanahan, actor Woody Harrelson, model Carol Alt, designer Donna Karan, and Chicago-based celebrity chef Charlie Trotter.[1] McClanahan is a regular visitor to the Optimum Health Institute. [2]

Criticism

The mildest criticism, which even some proponents of Wigmore's diet admit, is "Boring and bland." More serious criticism includes charges that, while raw/whole foods are an important component of a daily diet, it is too extreme to be either healthy or practical. According to Julie Walsh, a registered dietitian and spokeswoman for the American Dietetic Association, "It's not supported by scientific literature at all. Man has used fire to cook food for ages. To refrain from heating or processing foods could even be risky. Some studies also suggest that cooked tomatoes release more phytonutrients than raw ones. The lycopene found in tomatoes is a strong antioxidant linked to preventing several different diseases — and it's released with heat." [3]

In addition, medical professionals worry that claims of cures of serious diseases such as cancer may discourage individuals from seeking more conventional treatments that medical research has shown to be effective, thus actually endangering rather than helping them, similar to the hyperbole surrounding laetrile in the 1980s. Diane Stadler of the Oregon Health Sciences University in Portland says, "Some raw food web sites suggest that you can treat certain chronic diseases by consuming a raw food diet. That frightens me as a medical professional. Some people will accept that as truth and delay seeking appropriate diagnosis and treatment...[which] could seriously impact long-term well-being." [4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Wigmore

Medical Journalist Report

Value of Colon Hydrotherapy Verified by Medical Professionals

by Morton Walker, DPM

©Copyright 2000 by Dr. Morton Walker

From the signal stage of history surrounding ancient Egypt, practices of colon hydrotherapy in their most basic form – enemas or clysters – have provided people with internal cleansings adjunctive to their personal external hygiene. The Ebers Papyrus, from the 14th century B.C. prescribes internal cleansing for no less than twenty stomach and intestinal complaints.1

But in the modern era it fell to J. H. Kellogg, MD, of Battle Creek, Michigan, famous for his invention of corn flakes and various techniques of good hygiene, to popularize colon hydrotherapy. This happened from Dr. Kellogg's publication of his article in the Journal of the American Medical Association praising the procedure's efficacy for saving a dysfunctional large bowel.2

That descriptive article was the impetus for advancement of a highly beneficial therapeutic method which has since flourished and found medical recognition among enlightened health professionals in Europe, Asia, Australia, New Zealand, and North America. Enthusiastic expressions of approval for colon hydrotherapy are undeniable medical endorsements for this significant complementary treatment which removes metabolic waste from the large bowel without applying toxic agents of any kind.

Board Certified Gastrointestinal Surgeon Dr. Leonard Smith Endorses Colon Hydrotherapy

Thirty years ago, Leonard Smith, M.D., of Gainsville, Florida graduated from medical school and eventually became board certified in general surgery by the American College of Surgery. For more than 25 years Dr. Smith has practiced as a specialist in gastrointestinal surgery. He has dealt with all types of colon difficulties, including operations for colon cancer, colon diverticulitis, appendicitis, hemorrhoids, and numbers of other internal organ problems.

"I am very well acquainted with the colon's functions, and my true belief is that colon hydrotherapy is the perfect cleansing medium for preparing the patient for colonoscopy. It's a much better way of getting the human colon ready for an operation than having a patient swallow a gallon of that presurgery solution known as 'Colon-Go-Lytely.' Instead, colon hydrotherapy allows the patient to avoid this solution's noxious side effects of vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal cramping, and other troubles," Dr. Smith says.

"Moreover, seriously ill patients tend to be chronically constipated which results in generalized toxemia. It turns out that colon hydrotherapy is the gentlest and most effective treatment for a constipation problem. My recommendation for cancer patients is that they should undergo frequent colon hydrotherapy procedures to make sure the colon's toxic burden is being kept at a minimum while their bodies are trying to heal," affirms Dr. Smith. "While not a substitute for eating a high fiber diet, those cancer patients who take colon hydrotherapy often experience the elimination of their aches and pains, improvement of appetite, and they tolerate a tough healing process better.

"I also believe that normally healthy people will find it valuable to take colon hydrotherapy every couple of months in order to experience how well one feels when the colon is truly empty. It's a fact that most people fail to fully evacuate the colon, something they don't realize. People undergoing colon hydrotherapy on a prevention basis, are quite surprised at how much waste is removed by the procedure," Dr. Smith says.

"Without reservation, my wish is to see it become an established procedure for many kinds of gastrointestinal problems. If medical centers, hospitals, and clinics installed colon hydrotherapy departments, they would find such departments just as efficacious for patients as their present treatment areas which are devoted to physiotherapy," states Leonard Smith, MD "Such is my belief, and I do endorse this therapeutic program."

Colon Hydrotherapy Corrects Constipation

"One of my more significant cases was Tommy, an eight-year-old boy with the most awful constipation anyone could imagine," says former general surgeon and emergency medicine specialist Paul Flashner, MD, of Wellesley, Massachusetts. Observing their superior results for his patients, Dr. Flashner has recently adapted his treatment techniques almost completely to complementary and alternative medicine (CAM). He has most definitely incorporated colon hydrotherapy as a regular CAM technique.

"Tommy's constipation was really bad. He never had a bowel movement for a week at a time. Recognizing the dangers of physiological toxicity, his parents took their son for consultation with numerous gastroenterologists. The child had been subjected to colonoscopy a dozen times, but nothing could be found as the source of his blockage. Laxatives hardly helped at all. There was no diagnosis except that he suffered severely from constipation," confirms Dr. Flashner. "Then the parents found their way to me so that the boy might undergo examination and treatment one more time.

"I improved the child's diet and removed all junk foods. Then I instigated an exercise program, had him drink lots of water, balanced his colonic flora, and added fiber food supplements. But most vital for Tommy's welfare is that he took colon hydrotherapy under my prescription. The beneficial effect was dramatic, for within six months he was experiencing a natural and normal bowel movement every day. No laxatives were involved in his progress," states Dr. Flashner. "Now the child does not need to consult me anymore; he still continues his colon hydrotherapy. He did this once a month for six months, and currently he undergoes the cleansing just four times a year. It's now two years and Tommy remains in excellent physical condition.

"Colon hydrotherapy is the perfect specific procedure to eliminate constipation and restore normal bowel function. My approach to medical practice is to balance the GI tract using stool testing. I find various pathologies relating to bacteria, yeast, parasites, and other organisms of this nature. A lot of disease comes from imbalances in the colon, as manifested by inflammatory bowel disease, ulcerative colitis, autoimmune diseases, allergies, multiple sclerosis, and certainly constipation. Such imbalances can be corrected by means of colon hydrotherapy, herbal supplements, and diet," says Dr. Paul Flashner. "There is no question about the huge difference a health professional can bring to the patient by utilizing colon hydrotherapy plus other complementary and alternative methods of healing."

Giving Colon Hydrotherapy is Standard Procedure for Sharda Sharma, MD...

http://www.tldp.com/issue/11_00/mjr.htm

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A woman I know insists it is possible to get pregnant from oral sex.

The mainstream medical establishment says that's nonsense, but some women in her village say it's true.

So I guess it's 50/50 whether to believe it or not.

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Ok, Ann Wigmore is not a new-age practitioner however she is a " Dr. of Divinity" so her head is still in the clouds. I don't doubt that these super enemas are effective for the super constipated as in the case of the boy in the story.

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-That is for sure! :)

No this is for sure,I just don't understand how we got on without this anally invasive treatment for tens of thousands of years,but I guess up the <deleted> shute has to be good for you,so many people here believe and enjoy this kind of treatment.Personally I shy at the thought of something up my freckle.But this is Thailand. :D

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Ok, Ann Wigmore is not a new-age practitioner however she is a " Dr. of Divinity" so her head is still in the clouds. I don't doubt that these super enemas are effective for the super constipated as in the case of the boy in the story.

Right, a doctor of divinity and even a normal GP medical doctor would be less qualified than a medical researcher. Again we're taking anecdotal versus empirical evidence. Personally I don't trust anecdotal evidence because, unlike empirical evidence, it has zero predictive power.

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I totally agree with Ulysses G, I've done at least 50 CI's (usually together with fasting and other natural healing detox methods) and not only I never had a problem, but I always felt better. I do know of other people's experiences with CI where they removed very old stuff and some cases where deformed colon shapes were restored to normal; these are not things that I read, but actual people that I've met. Some of those people were just about left for dead by their doctors until they tried alternative healing therapies.

Junglan postings are highly biased since he seems to be part of the mainstream medical/pharmaceutical establishment and reflects their official "myth" that they know everything and their methods are the only ones that work and dismisses everybody elses are just a myth that should not be tried (such as alternative health, acupuncture, fasting, CI, etc). That's the same people that take care of everything by prescribing drugs whose side effects kill millions, but.... oh, that's o.k. because they are approved by The American Medical Association or The British Medical Association ........... please, give me a break; you are entitled to your opinion, but don't preach to us or try to tell us what we should do or not do.

Having said that in my post above, i also have seeds of doubt (sorry!) about official advice re health issues, and am a fan of alternative methods in general. I have not closed the door on having a CI, but my big problem is coming across sufficiently decent information on which to make an informed decision. I do place emphasis on hearing what experiences people report, so i'm interested to know why you've had so many of them. Obviously they're good for you, but in what particular ways do they help you feel better? Do you do them yourself with a diy kit, or do you get them done by a professional?

The main problem with the established views amongst 'normal' doctors and health systems of the west for me is that it's just about all corrective when one has a problem. I like preventative health, hence my interest in CI and ayurveda and other forms of 'alternative' health.

The reason why I did at least 50 CI's is mostly because I did it while doing long fasting (30 to 40 days) and during fasting the body's toxins go into the blood stream and from there to the brain and you feel dizzy, like having a headache and pretty much miserable. I was doing colonics 3 times a week as a way to get rid of those toxins and it works great in that regard in addition to the cleansing effect. I was also working during that period and at the same time that sometimes I was feeling low, other times I was jumping around all the time because I had so much energy. Fasting works great for me. I did the colonics with a chiropractor in Los Angeles and during that time I met a lot of people that were also doing the program and reported the benefits. I'M TALKING FROM PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE, MINE AND OTHERS.

The problem here is that some people oppose or ridicule CI's not because of practical experience (actually, they deny the experience of others like UG that already mentioned his removal of thousands of seeds from childhood) but because of a pre established "DOGMA' of how things should be, what works or not. In the end, we are all different, there are many different body types, we are all unique in our own way and what works for some may not work for others. Fasting works for some body types, but doesn't work well for others, maybe the same with CI's. To each their own based on what they need and feel comfortable with.

For those that say that filling your colon with water is not natural; well...... a blood transfusion isn't either but you do it if need to fix a problem. Fried foods are not natural foods for the human body but most people eat them, cooking meat isn't natural either (raw meat would be the "natural" meat to eat), come on, we do plenty of non natural things. If somebody wants to find a reason to not like CI's or something else, it's very easy to find something, the point here is, do what feels right for you and go from a practical perspective of what works not what others preach that work or not.

Also, for those that say that just drinking that liquid that they give you before a colonoscopy (I have done it also) is enough, let me say that that liquid works by being a big irritant to the colon, that's how it gets the job done, but the CI works in a much more gentle, natural way; it will take a few to get the job done, but it works well and it can also include other things in the water in order to do other beneficial effects and it works great as part of a cleansing program, but again, it may be the right things for you to do or not, I don't pretend to tell others what to do (unlike some other people), just do what feels right for you.

P.S. Sorry about the delay to reply but a really bad internet connection prevented me to get into the thread for a few days or ....... maybe I was waiting for the right astrological timing to replay.........

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