For Colonic Irrigation Detox In Chiangmai, I Recommend:

[ollylama]

there is no such thing as "toxins."

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4083

http://www.massagetoday.com/archives/2002/12/08.html

the reason you had a headache was because you were hungry, dude. you don't need to be a "doctor of divinity" to arrive at that conclusion.

of course, anyone can purchase a "doctor of divinity" ph.d at the universal life church for 29.95.

just because things sound logical doesn't mean they are. the word "spurious" is a good one to keep in mind at all times, like a swiss army knife to separate truth from truthiness.

Lisa Simpson : Dad, I think that's pretty spurious.

Homer : Well, thank you, honey.

[carlosacao]

there is no such thing as "toxins."

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4083

http://www.massagetoday.com/archives/2002/12/08.html

the reason you had a headache was because you were hungry, dude. you don't need to be a "doctor of divinity" to arrive at that conclusion.

of course, anyone can purchase a "doctor of divinity" ph.d at the universal life church for 29.95.

just because things sound logical doesn't mean they are. the word "spurious" is a good one to keep in mind at all times, like a swiss army knife to separate truth from truthiness.

Lisa Simpson : Dad, I think that's pretty spurious.

Homer : Well, thank you, honey.

No dud, I wasn't hungry at all for the most part, maybe difficult for you to believe it or to understand how it works since you don't seem to have a clue about these things, but again, I was the one going through it and I have my experience, which nobody can take away, as for you....... why don't you joint the crowd of "The Earth is flat", same way of thinking dude.

"there is no such thing as "toxins."", wow, that's a good one

[piercefilmlid]

I totally agree with Ulysses G, I've done at least 50 CI's (usually together with fasting and other natural healing detox methods) and not only I never had a problem, but I always felt better. I do know of other people's experiences with CI where they removed very old stuff and some cases where deformed colon shapes were restored to normal; these are not things that I read, but actual people that I've met. Some of those people were just about left for dead by their doctors until they tried alternative healing therapies.

Junglan postings are highly biased since he seems to be part of the mainstream medical/pharmaceutical establishment and reflects their official "myth" that they know everything and their methods are the only ones that work and dismisses everybody elses are just a myth that should not be tried (such as alternative health, acupuncture, fasting, CI, etc). That's the same people that take care of everything by prescribing drugs whose side effects kill millions, but.... oh, that's o.k. because they are approved by The American Medical Association or The British Medical Association ........... please, give me a break; you are entitled to your opinion, but don't preach to us or try to tell us what we should do or not do.

Having said that in my post above, i also have seeds of doubt (sorry!) about official advice re health issues, and am a fan of alternative methods in general. I have not closed the door on having a CI, but my big problem is coming across sufficiently decent information on which to make an informed decision. I do place emphasis on hearing what experiences people report, so i'm interested to know why you've had so many of them. Obviously they're good for you, but in what particular ways do they help you feel better? Do you do them yourself with a diy kit, or do you get them done by a professional?

The main problem with the established views amongst 'normal' doctors and health systems of the west for me is that it's just about all corrective when one has a problem. I like preventative health, hence my interest in CI and ayurveda and other forms of 'alternative' health.

The reason why I did at least 50 CI's is mostly because I did it while doing long fasting (30 to 40 days) and during fasting the body's toxins go into the blood stream and from there to the brain and you feel dizzy, like having a headache and pretty much miserable. I was doing colonics 3 times a week as a way to get rid of those toxins and it works great in that regard in addition to the cleansing effect. I was also working during that period and at the same time that sometimes I was feeling low, other times I was jumping around all the time because I had so much energy. Fasting works great for me. I did the colonics with a chiropractor in Los Angeles and during that time I met a lot of people that were also doing the program and reported the benefits. I'M TALKING FROM PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE, MINE AND OTHERS.

The problem here is that some people oppose or ridicule CI's not because of practical experience (actually, they deny the experience of others like UG that already mentioned his removal of thousands of seeds from childhood) but because of a pre established "DOGMA' of how things should be, what works or not. In the end, we are all different, there are many different body types, we are all unique in our own way and what works for some may not work for others. Fasting works for some body types, but doesn't work well for others, maybe the same with CI's. To each their own based on what they need and feel comfortable with.

For those that say that filling your colon with water is not natural; well...... a blood transfusion isn't either but you do it if need to fix a problem. Fried foods are not natural foods for the human body but most people eat them, cooking meat isn't natural either (raw meat would be the "natural" meat to eat), come on, we do plenty of non natural things. If somebody wants to find a reason to not like CI's or something else, it's very easy to find something, the point here is, do what feels right for you and go from a practical perspective of what works not what others preach that work or not.

Also, for those that say that just drinking that liquid that they give you before a colonoscopy (I have done it also) is enough, let me say that that liquid works by being a big irritant to the colon, that's how it gets the job done, but the CI works in a much more gentle, natural way; it will take a few to get the job done, but it works well and it can also include other things in the water in order to do other beneficial effects and it works great as part of a cleansing program, but again, it may be the right things for you to do or not, I don't pretend to tell others what to do (unlike some other people), just do what feels right for you.

P.S. Sorry about the delay to reply but a really bad internet connection prevented me to get into the thread for a few days or ....... maybe I was waiting for the right astrological timing to replay.........

I am sure an occasional CI is low-risk, but I question whether having it done regularly is a good thing.

The reason why animals can digest the food they eat, without digesting their own bodies, is because of the protection afforded by the mucus lining of the stomach wall against the strong acidic content.

If you are continually washing out the lower colon, is there not a risk that you are changing the composition of its natural fluid lining that stops the body being poisoned by its own waste?

Just a thought.

Regards.

[carlosacao]

Good point, good food for thought, an informative, reasonable posting for a change. I'll research about your point. Thanks.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Tee Vee Friends,

People doing whatever with whichever orifice doesn't phase me : it's your body; nor do I perceive some great Manichean dichotomy between the green-eco-nature-loving-herbal-fasting-vegan-holistic forces on the one side of Armageddon while on the other are doctors-using-evil-chemicals-created-by-greedy-corporate-drug-manufacturers-in-collusion-with-the-military-industrial-complex.

I personally think there are some rare people who, as a part of their "spiritual" life, engage in extremes of diet, and I respect them, but, in my experience, the few people like that I have known never saw such practices as an "end" in themselves, only a "means" to move forward toward their vision of what their life should be, or could be.

But may I mentiion that many people who are over-concerned with the body, and who are driven to compulsively oscillate between binge and fast, are very often people with very deep and real psychological problems related to eating and body image. And their suffering is very real, their loss of human potential is very real, very tragic.

But ... you will say : "wait, what about people who exercise many hours a day : are they 'fanatics' or running away (displacing) psychological problems ?" ... and all I can answer is that each of us has to find the balance in our lives which is unique for us, and, imho, that "balance" changes with the seasons of life.

My own sister, following my mother's death, when she was about 14 (I'm eighteen years older) went through several years of episodes of compulsive over-eating followed by self-induced vomiting (bulemia), periods of not eating (anorexia). Today she's a clinical psychologist specializing in (guess) ... yes ... you are right ... eating disorders.

On a strange and wonderful level our human body is both temple and a theater, and what we do with food, and what we do with the organs of excretion and what comes out of them, is both instinct and performance, ritual and biological necessity.

For me the real question is not what I eat, or don't eat, or what I excrete, but am I fulfilling my human potential in the present moment, the present "phase" of my life. Am I open to intimacy and love ? Am I creating a life which is my own, or just passing time in a comfortable rut.

There is effective psychological help for eating disorders and for problems of distortion of body image; there are effective short-term therapies, there are medications that may help adjust some imbalance in the appetitive, or metabolic systems (or in the dopamine and/or serotonin metabolism in the brain) which is "driving" a pattern of over-concern with the body and extremes of manipulation.

My heart goes out to those who suffer from eating disorders; I've seen the cost of it in my own family; but my heart also goes out to those who enjoy their food and wine in moderation and find, in food, one of the "musics" of life.

All I can say to my taste buds who brought so much joy over so many wonderful meals of the best Thai food in the world (now that they are rather dead) is "thanks for the memories."

I will enjoy a banana now.

best, ~o:37;

[carlosacao]

Hi orang37, In my experience (including myself), I would say that most of the people engaged in fasting or colonics do it because of health reasons (in many cases not because of having actual health issues but because of a desire to do internal cleansing, etc) and sometimes related to spiritual practices, Jesus fasted for 40 days as part of his spiritual practice, many spiritual practices advocate fasting also. In Yoga they also have a technique for washing and massaging the colon called Nauli.

I've met many people into fasting and colonics but I can't recall anybody doing it because of eating disorders or body image problems. Just my 2 cents worth. I would say that is a means to a end for those who feel that is the right thing for them to do at the stage of life where they are at.

[Ulysses G.]

In the Essene Bibles, Jesus supposedly recomended natuaral enemas to cure illness.

[ollylama]

Didn't he turn water into Milk of Magnesia?

Time for a prayer...

Our Doctor, who art not a real doctor

Give us today our daily enema.

And lead us not into constipation.

For thine is the colonic, and the water, and the gory.

A-Menorreah.

[Blinky Bill]

.............I did the colonics with a chiropractor in Los Angeles and during that time I met a lot of people that were also doing the program and reported the benefits. I'M TALKING FROM PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE, MINE AND OTHERS...........

Hmmm. Los Angeles. Isn't that the place where 80% of the population need to regularly visit Therapists. And the Therapists need their own Therapists. And isn't it the place where psychotic animals owned by psychotic people need regular visits to their equally psychotic animal Therapists who no doubt, need to visit their own Therapists who also need.........?

Only in America.

[Ulysses G.]

Australia has them too!

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[Blinky Bill]

Yes Ewe Gee, they say Australian paranoia is slowly catching up with that of America, some years to go yet I feel.

Fortunately I haven't lived there for more than a quarter of a century.

[Ulysses G.]

They say that you guys - not you - are catching up to us in the obesity department too.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[ollylama]

there is no such thing as "toxins."

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4083

http://www.massagetoday.com/archives/2002/12/08.html

the reason you had a headache was because you were hungry, dude. you don't need to be a "doctor of divinity" to arrive at that conclusion.

of course, anyone can purchase a "doctor of divinity" ph.d at the universal life church for 29.95.

just because things sound logical doesn't mean they are. the word "spurious" is a good one to keep in mind at all times, like a swiss army knife to separate truth from truthiness.

Lisa Simpson : Dad, I think that's pretty spurious.

Homer : Well, thank you, honey.

No dud, I wasn't hungry at all for the most part, maybe difficult for you to believe it or to understand how it works since you don't seem to have a clue about these things, but again, I was the one going through it and I have my experience, which nobody can take away, as for you....... why don't you joint the crowd of "The Earth is flat", same way of thinking dude.

"there is no such thing as "toxins."", wow, that's a good one

If you're done being cheeky, my bummed-out friend, let me ass-ure you that i'm quite familiar with different anal-yses of colonics and other silly ways to separate the earnest from their hard earned cash. i had a regular column in a magazine where i took the piss out of a wide array of pseudosciences.

here's one i wrote which you will no doubt find full of poo:

Zen and the Art of Utter Rubbish

The Bottom Line

What is this strange relationship between progressive philosophy and the human posterior? I mean, I’ve got nothing against the bum per se, and couldn’t imagine life without one. For one thing, It would be very difficult to balance on a barstool. And the bikini industry would see their profits slashed by 50 percent. But do we really need to pay so much attention to its inner workings? The earnest new-ager or alternative medicine aficionado would certainly assent to that assertion. And while I see their point, I’d like to take the time to interject a few important buts.

Though I often rail against new age stuff, I was once quite the fan. Many years ago I spent a lovely two weeks in the Himalayas at a yoga retreat designed to cleanse my soul as well as other equally unfathomable aspects of my person. After drinking a liter of salt water and throwing up tiny remnants of the tragic little food I’d been allowed the day before, I was invited to take a huge enema. When I balked, the master insisted, with no apparent irony, that “The ends justify the means.” I assured him that my end was already perfectly justified, and that being mean to it would serve no purpose at all.

Still, I understood why they thought this would have made me a better person. As we all know, clean is good, dirty is bad. And what’s more dirty than, well, you know? Since “purification” is at the base of all mystical practices, it stands to reason that this rather impure of locations might draw an inordinate amount of attention from those who’ve acquired such a bent.

Nearly all spiritual retreats now offer supercharged versions of the humble enema – it’s called “colonic irrigation” and is essentially a variation on the childhood taunt “up your nose with a rubber hose” only God, in his eternal wisdom, placed your nose far away from where this rubber hose is headed. Plus, if you stuck this high pressure stream in your nose your eyeballs would fly across the room.

The principle behind colonics is that because modern humans eat so poorly we’ve got all sorts of petrified crud (“plaques”) on the insides of our intestines, and outside of surgery, only a firehose can remove them. The problem, of course, is that there are no plaques in there at all. After hundreds of years of dissecting cadavers and a few decades of colonoscopies, the medical community can state with rather fundamental authority that there is absolutely no such thing as intestinal plaques, or tar as it’s affectionately referred to by licensed colonic irrigators (who are sometimes affectionately referred to as Tarminators.). Any benefit the patient receives from the procedure, therefore, is probably purely psychological. Call it the assebo effect.

This, of course, flies in the face of first-hand knowledge of many of those who have been irrigated. “I saw it with my own eyes, man,” a friend once told me “it was like a piece of bicycle tire!” The possibility that it really is a piece of bicycle tire planted there by overzealous irrigationists notwithstanding, there is likely a far more simple answer. What most colonics patients fail to remember is that they are normally fed an oral solution prior to receiving their treatment. This solution often contains psyllium fiber – a plant compound normally used to treat constipation that grows to many times its dried size on contact with water. A couple spoonfuls with a meal will approximate the driving of an eighteen-wheel lorry through your digestive tract. So even the smallest amount of this tough, fibrous powder will be likely to make a pretty grand exit.

Nevertheless, this whole “plaque” bogeyman is just window-dressing for the real problem, namely that of “toxins.” The reason we must “purify” our bodies via induced vomiting, turbo enemas, extended fasting and bitter herbs is because we unfortunates are filled with malevolent “toxins.” But what are toxins, anyway? The standard answer is that they are things that shouldn’t be in our bodies (rubber pipes being apparently exempt). Most toxins, it is assumed, are byproducts of the modern world – pesticides, artificial hormones, industrial carbon and the entire McDonalds menu. As the primary channel to receive toxins is presumably through food, it stands to reason that we should be obsessively aware of the process of taking in food and excreting its waste products.

And yet, the body does just fine on its own. That’s exactly what our livers and kidneys and colons are here for. If nature wanted us to stick high pressure torrents up our bums she would have given us garden hoses for arms. Of course, this is a potentially specious argument – nature didn’t intend for us to eat Big Macs for breakfast either. But then, our distant ancestors dined on things far filthier and they didn’t need to sit on any geysers.

Of course, the best way to avoid taking in toxins is to avoid taking in anything at all. Practitioners of alternative medicine therefore recommend periodically going without food of any sort for extended periods of time, a solution that virtually every trained medical practitioner will tell you is not only utter nonsense, but unhealthy and if carried on too long, quite dangerous. All one needs to do is visit a refugee camp anywhere in the world to see what the effects of extended fasting are. Yet many fasters report that they feel much better after a fast. Of course the operative word here is “after.” There is nothing quite so wonderful as plain white rice and water after you’ve starved yourself stupid. Suddenly a sliver of carrot looks like a heavenly boon and the world is vibrantly alive with wonderful offerings you once took for granted. If you push it too far, though, those wonderful offerings can include a saline drip, shots of adrenaline, and a comfy hospital bed.

The sad and resolutely scientific truth is, when it comes to removing toxins, fasting will do nothing. It takes energy for your system to work, and without energy it will have a harder time filtering out things that should not be there. In fact, after an extended time without food, “toxins” will actually build up in the body in the form of ketones, causing the blood to become dangerously acidic. Still, there’s nothing wrong with going without food for a day or so, however, and some travelers report that this is not only a good way to get over the runs, but also leaves more money for beer.

So if you really want to be clean and healthy inside and out, just eat a high-fiber diet, exercise regularly, and let the amazing human body doo-doo what it does naturally.

You’re better off using the hose to irrigate your vegetable garden.

THE END

[Ulysses G.]

This, of course, flies in the face of first-hand knowledge of many of those who have been irrigated. "I saw it with my own eyes, man," a friend once told me "it was like a piece of bicycle tire!" The possibility that it really is a piece of bicycle tire planted there by overzealous irrigationists notwithstanding, there is likely a far more simple answer. What most colonics patients fail to remember is that they are normally fed an oral solution prior to receiving their treatment. This solution often contains psyllium fiber – a plant compound normally used to treat constipation that grows to many times its dried size on contact with water. A couple spoonfuls with a meal will approximate the driving of an eighteen-wheel lorry through your digestive tract. So even the smallest amount of this tough, fibrous powder will be likely to make a pretty grand exit.

Swallowing psyllium fiber is a relatively new thing in the fasting world and its purpose is to push impacted matter through the colon to clean it faster. When I was doing this 30 years ago we only used distilled water and still got the "bicycle tire" effect and the first time that I tried it, I also saw about 1,000 fruit seeds and lost 5 lbs as well.

By the way, it comes out of your anus and only looks something like a tire - more like very old, rubbery feces - but there is really no way for some colema zealot to sneak up and "plant' it in your basket.

If it is all fake, I don't know how they brainwashed so many people to see it over the years and who knows what all the 1,000s of photos that are in 100's of holistic health books of impacted matter really are?

Anyone who wants to find out more of the pro colonic side might try talking to Julia Jus at http://www.juliajus.com/ She is a medical doctor (M.D.) who uses raw foods and colema (a type of colonic) therapy and she lives in Chiang Mai much of the time and has a good reputation. She can probably answer many questions that the internet amateurs cannot.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Nienke]

Anyone who wants to find out more of the pro colonic side might try talking to Julia Jus at http://www.juliajus.com/ She is a medical doctor (M.D.) who uses raw foods and colema (a type of colonic) therapy and she lives in Chiang Mai much of the time and has a good reputation. She can probably answer many questions that the internet amateurs cannot.

Not any more. She is moving to or has already moved to Bali. You can still contact her through her website though.

[wayfarer108]

Right on, ollylama. I checked all the links UG posted, didn't see any of them that contained a link or citation for a single scientific study in favour of CI. I would like to see the results of one statistically valid, double blind study where CI is shown to have a significant probability for curing any known pathological condition (other than hypochondria ).

In the meantime, here are several citations that say CI is not an effective treatment and is in fact potentially harmful, from the library of the National Institute of Health.

Journal of Clincial Gastroenterology

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9252839

1: J Clin Gastroenterol. 1997 Jun;24(4):196-8. Links

Colonic irrigation and the theory of autointoxication: a triumph of ignorance over science. Ernst E.

Autointoxication is an ancient theory based on the belief that intestinal waste products can poison the body and are a major contributor to many, if not all, diseases. In the 19th century, it was the ruling doctrine of medicine and led "colonic quackery" in various guises. By the turn of the century, it had received some apparent backing from science. When it became clear that the scientific rationale was wrong and colonic irrigation was not merely useless but potentially dangerous, it was exposed as quackery and subsequently went into a decline. Today we are witnessing a resurgence of colonic irrigation based on little less than the old bogus claims and the impressive power of vested interests. Even today's experts on colonic irrigation can only provide theories and anecdotes in its support. It seems, therefore, that ignorance is celebrating a triumph over science.

Journal of the History of Medicine and Allied Sciences

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7665877...ogdbfrom=pubmed

J Hist Med Allied Sci. 1995 Jul;50(3):364-90. Links

"Doubtful theories, drastic therapies: autointoxication and faddism in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries." Sullivan-Fowler M.

Pharmacy History Australia. 2002 Mar;(16):9-11.

"Quacks: fakers and charlatans in medicine." Magee R.

Quackery abounded in Britain in the 16th to the 19th centuries. Some of these practitioners were colourful characters who successfully promoted their medical and surgical abilities and their remedies to a gullible public. Although many may have been harmless, a number of them may have been considered to be rather dubious and dangerous, but altogether they played a large part in influencing the history of medical practice between 1750 and 1850. The methods of practice employed by these people have been reviewed and examples given of such quacks as Sir William Read and Joshua Ward both of whom were very successful. Alternative medicine has always had an attraction for some members of the community, and this has extended into the twentieth century. Examples are given of therapies, such as that for the treatment of cancer and arterial disease, in recent years that can only be described as modern-day quackery.

World Journal of Biological Psychiatry. 2004 Apr;5(2):66-72.Links

"Historical review: Autointoxication and focal infection theories of dementia praecox."

Noll R.DeSales University, Center Valley, PA 18034-9568, USA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1517966...ogdbfrom=pubmed

The popularity of theories of autointoxication and focal infection in general medicine and dentistry in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries led Emil Kraepelin and others to speculate that dementia praecox was caused by a poisoning of the brain from toxins produced in other parts of the body, notably the sex glands, the intestines and the mouth. Emil Kraepelin's commitment to the autointoxication theory is ignored in the literature on the history of psychiatry due to the focus of historians and clinicians on the major contributions of Kraepelin's methods of clinical psychopathology. Besides heredity, autointoxication and focal infection were the other most dominant theories of the organic aetiology of dementia praecox in the first three decades of its existence as a nosological entity in psychiatry. Rational treatments for dementia praecox that followed logically from these aetio-logical theories were colonic irrigations and major abdominal surgeries such as appendicostomies, colectomies and the removal of presumably infected ovaries, testes and other organs associated with reproduction. Autointoxication and focal infection theories disappeared from psychiatry by the mid-1930s.

Mayo Clinic

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/colon-cleansing/AN00065

Question

"Colon cleansing: Is it helpful or harmful?I've read many negative things about colon cleansing, but I don't believe any of them. Colon cleansing generally sounds like a good way to clear toxins from your body. What do you think?"

Answer from Michael Picco, M.D.

Proponents of colon cleansing believe that toxins from your gastrointestinal tract can cause a variety of health problems, such as arthritis, allergies and asthma. They say that colon cleansing — also called colonic irrigation — removes these toxins, thus promoting healthy intestinal bacteria, boosting your energy and enhancing your immune system.

While there is little scientific evidence to support or refute the benefits of colon cleansing, critics say it's generally unnecessary and at times may even be harmful. Although doctors prescribe colon cleansing as preparation for medical procedures such as colonoscopy, most don't recommend it for detoxification. Their reasoning is simple: The digestive system and bowel naturally eliminate waste material and bacteria — your body doesn't need enemas or special diets or pills to do this.

One concern with colon cleansing is that it can increase your risk of dehydration. A potentially more serious concern is that certain laxatives used in colon cleansing, such as those with sodium phosphate, can cause a rise in your electrolytes, which can be dangerous if you have kidney disease or heart disease.

National Council Against Health Fraud Position Paper on Colonic Irrigation

http://www.ncahf.org/pp/colonic.html

Colonic irrigation (CI) is a procedure in which very large quantities of liquids are infused into the colon via the rectum through a tube, a few pints at a time, in an effort to wash away and remove its contents. CI differs from an ordinary enema which involves infusing a lesser amount of liquid into the rectum only. A "high colonic" may involve the use of twenty or more gallons pumped by a machine or transmitted with an apparatus that relies upon gravity to achieve its purpose. Liquids used in colonics may include coffee, herbs, enzymes, wheat grass extract, or many other substances. Proponents of the procedure advertise that "all disease and death begin in the colon," that colonics "detoxifies" the body, and that regular "cleansing" is necessary to maintain one's health. None of these claims are true.

NCAHF agrees with the assessment of the California Department of Health Services. Colonics has no real health benefits, but does have a number of serious hazards. Consumers should not use colonics, and should avoid patronizing practitioners who employ this procedure. Practitioners who use colonics are either too ignorant or misguided to be entrusted with delivering health services.

References

Kizer, "The Case Against Colonic Irrigation," California Morbidity #38, September 27, 1985.

Martin, "Fatal Poisoning from Sodium Phosphate Enema." JAMA, 1987; 257:2190-2.

Deutsch, "Life Along the Alimentary Canal," New Nuts Among the Berries (Bull, 1977) 83-6 (Describes the popularity of the intestinal toxicity theory during the 19th Century)

Ballentine, "The Doctor is In - - Jail", FDA Consumer, October 1981, 30-1.

Eisele, "Deaths Related to Coffee Enemas," JAMA, 1980; 244: 1608-9

"An Outbreak of Amebiasis Spread by Colonic Irrigation at a Chiropractic Clinic," New England Journal of Medicine, 1982; 307:339-42.

Franklin, "Questions and Answers: Colonic Irrigation," JAMA 1981; 246:2869 (References three major gastroenterology textbooks which "reveal no mention of colon irrigation as a therapeutic technique in colon disease."

DeHoff, "Colonic Irrigation and Practice of medicine," Wisconsin Board of Physician Quality Assurance, 1991.

Edited July 8, 2009 by wayfarer108

[amexpat]

I highly recommend a visit to her (Julia Jus) web site. Be sure to look at her CV - it's a hoot.

The good doctor(?) is not exactly an MD from what I can tell. She offers this one-liner about any medical training:

"1994 Doctor of Medicine (Medicina Alternativa) The Open University of Complimentary Medicine, Colombo, Sri Lanka."

Of course. OUCMCSL is a leader in the Supplementary Complimentary Alternative Medicine field.

If you are a believer, you might want to be prepared with the Family Homeopathic Emergency Kit

"The Family Homeopathic Emergency Kit is safe and easy to treat acute illnesses at home."

Remedies for the following: Cough, Fever, Colic Abdominal, Indigestion, Diarrhoea, Cold, Headache, Earache, Pains, Burns, Injuries, Toothache, Insect Bites, Dentition Troubles, Depression, Low Blood Pressure, High Blood Pressure, Eye Troubles, Stone Colic, Skin Allergies, Menses Troubles, Tonsillitis, Sleeplessness, Piles and Fissures, Heart Disease, Mumps, Measles, Whooping Cough.

Really, now, your health is important and you are responsible for it. It you want to go with subjective anecdotal claims that contradict empirical research and controlled experiments, up to you. But if you are a nice person, I hope you won't.

Edited July 8, 2009 by amexpat

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry, if Julia is indeed not a medical doctor. I have been told that she is for many years and her web site has MD after her name. I have never heard anything negative about her, but I have never used her services.

I still wish that someone like her would defend colonic therapy. Right now we have a few people who have tried it with no ill effects and are not sure if it helps one's health, or not.

She is an intelligent person who helps people do it for a living. It would be interesting to hear what she had to say. I would also like to ask her how she justifies putting M.D after her name, if she is not one.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Right on, ollylama. I checked all the links UG posted, didn't see any of them that contained a link or citation for a single scientific study in favour of CI.

The only links that I remember posting were the results of Googling: "colonics in Australia" to point out that they are not only found in L.A..

They semed to be mostly links to places that provide colonics, nothing to do with studies.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Chunkton]

The medical/pharmaceutical financial cartel have been trying to eliminate all forms of natural therapy for over 100 years through intimidation, getting oppressive laws enacted and ridicule. None of this is about the patient of course, it is about protecting a very lucrative monopoly. And yet natural therapies continue to grow in popularity despite this well financed campaign as the public as in any free market chooses what works and what is well priced.

I noticed some posts quoting articles with the usual medical opinions about anything they don't profit on, so here are a few more below, but there are endless references you can dig up.

Have a look at this link for a brief outline of how and why the AMA was formed: Follow the Money

The medico-drug cartel was summed up by J.W Hodge, M.D., of Niagara Falls, N.Y., in these words:

"The medical monopoly or medical trust, euphemistically called the American Medical Association, is not merely the meanest monopoly ever organized, but the most arrogant, dangerous and despotic organisation which ever managed a free people in this or any other age. Any and all methods of healing the sick by means of safe, simple and natural remedies are sure to be assailed and denounced by the arrogant leaders of the AMA doctors' trust as fakes, frauds and humbugs.

Every practitioner of the healing art who does not ally himself with the medical trust is denounced as a 'dangerous quack' and impostor by the predatory trust doctors. Every sanitarian who attempts to restore the sick to a state of health by natural means without resort to the knife or poisonous drugs, disease imparting serums, deadly toxins or vaccines, is at once pounced upon by these medical tyrants and fanatics, bitterly denounced, vilified and persecuted to the fullest extent."

Quoted from full article: Truth About Rockerfeller Drug Empire

If you want to be diced and sliced or have your symptoms suppressed or poisoned then go ahead and see your GP. Others prefer to to try and remedy the actual cause of the problem first by natural non-toxic means, they always then have the option of the GP. To each their own.

Finally, the UK had a doctors strike many years ago, the end result was that the death rate fell. It went up again after the strike of course.

[amexpat]

If you want to be diced and sliced or have your symptoms suppressed or poisoned then go ahead and see your GP. Others prefer to to try and remedy the actual cause of the problem first by natural non-toxic means, they always then have the option of the GP. To each their own.

Huh? If the home brew doesn't work, then they might choose to be diced and sliced or have their symptoms suppressed or poisoned?

Seems you should avoid the evil GP no matter what.

Finally, the UK had a doctors strike many years ago, the end result was that the death rate fell. It went up again after the strike of course.

This all seems absurd to me - which just proves I am part of the conspiracy, doesn't it?

[carlosacao]

there is no such thing as "toxins."

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4083

http://www.massagetoday.com/archives/2002/12/08.html

the reason you had a headache was because you were hungry, dude. you don't need to be a "doctor of divinity" to arrive at that conclusion.

of course, anyone can purchase a "doctor of divinity" ph.d at the universal life church for 29.95.

just because things sound logical doesn't mean they are. the word "spurious" is a good one to keep in mind at all times, like a swiss army knife to separate truth from truthiness.

Lisa Simpson : Dad, I think that's pretty spurious.

Homer : Well, thank you, honey.

No dud, I wasn't hungry at all for the most part, maybe difficult for you to believe it or to understand how it works since you don't seem to have a clue about these things, but again, I was the one going through it and I have my experience, which nobody can take away, as for you....... why don't you joint the crowd of "The Earth is flat", same way of thinking dude.

"there is no such thing as "toxins."", wow, that's a good one

If you're done being cheeky, my bummed-out friend, let me ass-ure you that i'm quite familiar with different anal-yses of colonics and other silly ways to separate the earnest from their hard earned cash. i had a regular column in a magazine where i took the piss out of a wide array of pseudosciences.

here's one i wrote which you will no doubt find full of poo:

Zen and the Art of Utter Rubbish

The Bottom Line

What is this strange relationship between progressive philosophy and the human posterior? I mean, I’ve got nothing against the bum per se, and couldn’t imagine life without one. For one thing, It would be very difficult to balance on a barstool. And the bikini industry would see their profits slashed by 50 percent. But do we really need to pay so much attention to its inner workings? The earnest new-ager or alternative medicine aficionado would certainly assent to that assertion. And while I see their point, I’d like to take the time to interject a few important buts.

Though I often rail against new age stuff, I was once quite the fan. Many years ago I spent a lovely two weeks in the Himalayas at a yoga retreat designed to cleanse my soul as well as other equally unfathomable aspects of my person. After drinking a liter of salt water and throwing up tiny remnants of the tragic little food I’d been allowed the day before, I was invited to take a huge enema. When I balked, the master insisted, with no apparent irony, that “The ends justify the means.” I assured him that my end was already perfectly justified, and that being mean to it would serve no purpose at all.

Still, I understood why they thought this would have made me a better person. As we all know, clean is good, dirty is bad. And what’s more dirty than, well, you know? Since “purification” is at the base of all mystical practices, it stands to reason that this rather impure of locations might draw an inordinate amount of attention from those who’ve acquired such a bent.

Nearly all spiritual retreats now offer supercharged versions of the humble enema – it’s called “colonic irrigation” and is essentially a variation on the childhood taunt “up your nose with a rubber hose” only God, in his eternal wisdom, placed your nose far away from where this rubber hose is headed. Plus, if you stuck this high pressure stream in your nose your eyeballs would fly across the room.

The principle behind colonics is that because modern humans eat so poorly we’ve got all sorts of petrified crud (“plaques”) on the insides of our intestines, and outside of surgery, only a firehose can remove them. The problem, of course, is that there are no plaques in there at all. After hundreds of years of dissecting cadavers and a few decades of colonoscopies, the medical community can state with rather fundamental authority that there is absolutely no such thing as intestinal plaques, or tar as it’s affectionately referred to by licensed colonic irrigators (who are sometimes affectionately referred to as Tarminators.). Any benefit the patient receives from the procedure, therefore, is probably purely psychological. Call it the assebo effect.

This, of course, flies in the face of first-hand knowledge of many of those who have been irrigated. “I saw it with my own eyes, man,” a friend once told me “it was like a piece of bicycle tire!” The possibility that it really is a piece of bicycle tire planted there by overzealous irrigationists notwithstanding, there is likely a far more simple answer. What most colonics patients fail to remember is that they are normally fed an oral solution prior to receiving their treatment. This solution often contains psyllium fiber – a plant compound normally used to treat constipation that grows to many times its dried size on contact with water. A couple spoonfuls with a meal will approximate the driving of an eighteen-wheel lorry through your digestive tract. So even the smallest amount of this tough, fibrous powder will be likely to make a pretty grand exit.

Nevertheless, this whole “plaque” bogeyman is just window-dressing for the real problem, namely that of “toxins.” The reason we must “purify” our bodies via induced vomiting, turbo enemas, extended fasting and bitter herbs is because we unfortunates are filled with malevolent “toxins.” But what are toxins, anyway? The standard answer is that they are things that shouldn’t be in our bodies (rubber pipes being apparently exempt). Most toxins, it is assumed, are byproducts of the modern world – pesticides, artificial hormones, industrial carbon and the entire McDonalds menu. As the primary channel to receive toxins is presumably through food, it stands to reason that we should be obsessively aware of the process of taking in food and excreting its waste products.

And yet, the body does just fine on its own. That’s exactly what our livers and kidneys and colons are here for. If nature wanted us to stick high pressure torrents up our bums she would have given us garden hoses for arms. Of course, this is a potentially specious argument – nature didn’t intend for us to eat Big Macs for breakfast either. But then, our distant ancestors dined on things far filthier and they didn’t need to sit on any geysers.

Of course, the best way to avoid taking in toxins is to avoid taking in anything at all. Practitioners of alternative medicine therefore recommend periodically going without food of any sort for extended periods of time, a solution that virtually every trained medical practitioner will tell you is not only utter nonsense, but unhealthy and if carried on too long, quite dangerous. All one needs to do is visit a refugee camp anywhere in the world to see what the effects of extended fasting are. Yet many fasters report that they feel much better after a fast. Of course the operative word here is “after.” There is nothing quite so wonderful as plain white rice and water after you’ve starved yourself stupid. Suddenly a sliver of carrot looks like a heavenly boon and the world is vibrantly alive with wonderful offerings you once took for granted. If you push it too far, though, those wonderful offerings can include a saline drip, shots of adrenaline, and a comfy hospital bed.

The sad and resolutely scientific truth is, when it comes to removing toxins, fasting will do nothing. It takes energy for your system to work, and without energy it will have a harder time filtering out things that should not be there. In fact, after an extended time without food, “toxins” will actually build up in the body in the form of ketones, causing the blood to become dangerously acidic. Still, there’s nothing wrong with going without food for a day or so, however, and some travelers report that this is not only a good way to get over the runs, but also leaves more money for beer.

So if you really want to be clean and healthy inside and out, just eat a high-fiber diet, exercise regularly, and let the amazing human body doo-doo what it does naturally.

You’re better off using the hose to irrigate your vegetable garden.

THE END

Sorry amigo, but you don't have the slightest clue about how fasting and detoxing works because you talk from scientific theory, not from having done it and you are not open to anything different than what your medical books say.

During most of my fast I had more energy (often a lot more) than when i was eating and I was also detoxing heavily, but I was also moving those toxins out of my system with the colonics, steam baths, etc. Many other people were also doing the fasting and colonics and the results were quite consistent, so.......... let's face it, you are not going to convince me and I will not convince you. As I said before, I don't pretend to tell others what to do or what works best for them, but I also know what works for me and that's THE END.

[ollylama]

that's cool, man. you've got your opinion, i've got mine. i didn't mean to imply i had the last word on the subject by writing "THE END". That was just another ass-oriented joke. if colonics make you feel better, then you're fortunate - it's a simple way to improve the quality of your day. but i don't think that "personal experience" proves anything. even if i personally liked colonic hydrotherapy i'd probably still consider it a bad idea.

people should do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. but i also think that there is a campaign of disinformation being waged by the new age/alternative health community. alternative health and new age therapists quite generally dispense treatment which has no clinical benefit, only placebo - but as we all know the placebo effect is more powerful than most medicines. but is it ethical to charge (sometimes quite high fees) for fakery - even if it's inadvertent? however, there are also are many unethical/moneygrubbing practices which are part and parcel of the western health community.

the problem is that since your heath is priceless, it's easy for health practitioners to manipulate the market and prey on the lack of knowledge of those who are anxious about their own well-being. as far as i know, science is the only way to cut through any of the bullshit. and that includes cutting through the bullshit of western medical doctors -- one of the main reasons the usa has such a problem with health care is because doctors routinely order expensive tests and treatments that they know probably won't do any good but which make them moolah. studies have shown that patients don't benefit from a lot of the stuff western doctors do as well.

so even though western medicine works far better than alternative medicine does (as proven by science), the business side of western medicine renders it just as prone to screw the patient in the bum as any hydrocolonic "doctor".

[Mapguy]

This must truly be the most astonishing topic ever posted on this forum !!!!!! I have avoided it for a long time. This thread has to go down in someone's history of internet fora as exceptional crap, if you'll pardon my allusion!

I must admit that I have not read all the posts, but who would really want to?! More than I really need or want to know!

A quick scan has revealed that the number of posts on this thread correlates highly with the creation of and number of posts of/on restaurant threads! Check it out!

I have every sympathy for people straining on the toilet to relieve themselves (and the general fear of cancer, et cetera). That is truly nasty business, but I still find this thread bizarre. It seems to reflect a certain declining Roman Empire sort of personal absorption. Even though I have been labeled an a**hole by some on TV Chiang Mai, I am not so absorbed or annal retentive. Still, I do sympathize with those who do have toilet problems!

Most importantly, maybe, it occurs to me that what goes in must eventually come out and may have an insidious as well as treacherous trip through the gut and affect key body organs along the way.

This, of course, leads one to look at the restaurant threads on TV Chiang Mai. Should a health alert be called??!! Should restaurant threads be put on hold for analysis by a committee of dieticians instead of the gormand who thrive here on Chiang Mai TV on these threads?

Edited July 8, 2009 by Mapguy

[ollylama]

this video doesn't offer any new insights. he says "fasting aids mental clarity and it probably does this by cleansing the body of toxins, and i know this is a controversial claim and ultimately you just have to try it yourself and see if you feel the same way."

come on. why use the bogeyman word "toxins" in such a context? one might as well use the term "thetans" - which the scientologists have done, to resounding effect. i maintain that this word "toxins" is so badly misused by alternative therapists that it should constitute a red flag for anyone with the slightest inclination to skepticism.

just say "fasting makes me feel healthier." anything else is utter pseudoscience. and just as lame as when people invoke a severely limited understanding of particle physics to justify supernatural phenomena.

the guy in the video says that when you stop eating for a while your body gets a chance to flush out toxins. and again, that the headaches are caused by "detoxification." and goes on to say that the pancreas gets to stop creating digestive enzymes and instead can work on detoxification.

this is all made up. it's a Kiplingesque just-so story. the guy just keeps going on and on about his own personal impressions about what foods are good and which ones are bad. saying that science hasn't supported these notions because "there's no money in [studying] fasting" is specious. fasting has been studied (hence the ketone problem i mentioned above) and the results seem to have shown very little to recommend it. which (again) isn't to say that you shouldn't do it - only don't start talking about pancreases and toxins and other fantasy explanations for why you do it.

[heybruce]

In summary: Science on one side, anecdotes and quacks on the other, both sides trying to make money.

I'll stick with exercise and a healthy, high fiber diet. I've read nothing to convince me I should stick a water hose up my butt.

[personchester]

.

For colonic irrigation detox in Chiangmai, I recommend Janrawee House spa.

I was there for my first time this week.

Here's a review.

First, why might colonic detox be important while we are in Thailand?

Since moving to Thailand five years ago, I've been diligent about getting detox.

The reason is that food in Thailand is usually delicious, but often not clean.

So it's useful to regularly wash out the exit route.

I won't describe or promote colonic detox -- there's enough of that elsewhere on the web.

The comparison for my recommendation of Janrawee is the detox clinic at Yanhee Hospital in Bangkok.

Yanhee is very well-equipped, clean, and efficient.

I've been there seven times, and have no complaints at all -- I recommend Yanhee, too.

The key difference is Yanhee is a hospital, and Janrawee is a private spa.

Janrawee in Chiangmai uses the same, advanced, equipment as at Yanhee.

The facilities here are spotless and very pleasant, as you would expect from a slightly pricey spa.

Service is caring and careful.

That would make it ideal for a first-timer with no previous experience of colonic detox.

English language at Janrawee is limited, but sufficient.

If you don't speak any Thai, just go slowly, smile, and ask all the questions you wish.

Janrawee offers free transportation -- which I used both ways.

I arranged for pickup when I called for the appointment.

The driver came early, which impressed me.

For my first time, I was given their standard detox solution of dissolved mineral salt.

They also offer coffee solution, which I will order next time.

Cost of detox is 1,500 baht for a single session.

Package of three sessions is 3,000, which works out to 1,000 each -- three sessions for the price of two.

I bought that package.

There are other discount packages available, but I'm leery of giving Thais money in advance, and that was the smallest package to get a big discount.

For comparison, Yanhee Hospital is just over 800 baht per session.

No packages.

Plus, going to Yanhee you must include the cost of taxi two ways, because no subway or skytrain anywhere near .

So the overall cost is about the same.

Janrawee is a middle-level spa, of which there are dozens just like it in and around Chiangmai.

The colonic detox seems to be their main attraction, and that's what attracted me.

Other than that, offers the same as every other spa in town.

However, while there I also had an herbal steam and an herbal scrub.

Cost for both together: 950 baht.

Very nice, but nothing special, and I wouldn't go out of the way just for that.

But as long as I had my clothes off anyway, I ordered those, also.

I tipped 200 baht for the herbal scrub -- that girl worked hard for an hour -- but I didn't tip for the detox; not appropriate.

Gentlemen:

Spas like this are marketed to tourist females with lots of time and little to do.

Men customers are rare.

But I was treated with total courtesy.

What helped is that I had a Thai woman friend call ahead to make my appointment.

That way there was no question that the services I expected were services they provide.

And I dressed totally opposite tourist style.

I wore a fresh, ironed, buttoned shirt, with long trousers and proper shoes.

All of the above ensured that the staff took care of me in a very polite way.

Also, I went mid-day on a weekday, so less likely to have any tourist females around.

I can't object to foreign elephants visiting Thailand, but if I can avoid them, I will.

One negative -- but not bad really -- is the up-sell for packages.

You can expect up-sell at any tourist venue.

I handled that by being "all-business" when I walked in the door.

There was a hint that the staff was going into their programmed, up-sell pitch, but I quietly said, "Just detox today. Where do I go to get ready for that."

Immediate understanding; the up-sell book was closed, and I was guided into the detox room.

However, at the conclusion, the up-sell started again when I went to the front desk to pay.

Because they knew I am a Chiangmai resident, they had two ladies, working together, with big smiles, trying to point me toward the most expensive membership plans.

I simply paged through their rate book until I found the package which offered detox, 3-for-the-price-of-2, which I bought.

That is the best "deal" on offer there.

How do I know it is the best deal?

When I selected that particular package, two up-sell ladies -- in unison -- stopped smiling.

Here in Chiangmai, there is at least one other spa which offers colonic detox, but I have no experience.

There may be more; I don't know.

I'm pleased to find a clean and well-organized detox service here in Chiangmai.

-- Oneman

What is the matter with you ? How can anyone describe Thai food as being delicious when it is not clean, this is a revolting thought, and that gives the impression that you wish to recommend that people eat dirty Thai food, in order to ensure that the have to go to the "detox" center which you seem to promote here.

Moreover, one can not generalize the taste of food, one has to follow the concept of

"one persons meat is another persons poison" thus to describe Thai food as delicious must be restricted to your personal taste, therefore you should have stated ...

"I personally find Thai food delicious, notwithstanding the fact that it is dirty"

because after consuming it I go to my favorite detox center" ...

and thereafter carry on with you promotional script.

[Nienke]

"The Family Homeopathic Emergency Kit is safe and easy to treat acute illnesses at home."

When (some) people now just stop believing that homeopathy is totally safe and harmless, as it is NOT when practiced incorrectly. Aggravation can do indeed harm. And applying the wrong remedy (in the wrong potency, and the wrong dose) can add a disease to the already existing disease picture, making cure much harder or in some cases impossible.

And mind you, I'm certainly NOT anti-homeopathy. On the contrary ...

I still wish that someone like her would defend colonic therapy. Right now we have a few people who have tried it with no ill effects and are not sure if it helps one's health, or not.

She probably won't as she IS intelligent enough not to go into totally useless discussions. Those who do not believe in alternative medicine (and here I generalize enormously, such as herbal med's, homeopathy, chiropractice, TCM, acupuncture, colon cleaning, etc.) will never do so as they don't want to. And that's their good right, as much as it is the right of others who do believe and have experienced that one of those alternative med's does work for that particular individual.

The interesting part is that (some) people who are so anti-alternative med's just believe whatever the 'doctor' tells them, without any scientific back-up. Just a small example about dogs and cats: there is NO scientific back-up that annual vaccinations are necessary. Just how many people still vaccinate their animal every year? Just because the (medical) doctor says it's necessary?

[carlosacao]

The problem here is that some people talk not from experience, but just recite what they read in some medical books, etc, but had probably never ever in their life been without food for more than a few hours but they pretend to tell me how it feels, what should I experience, what my energy level should be, how hungry I should get, etc, etc as have been said earlier,....... the thing is, I know how it feels, what I experience, what to expect and what to do, because unlike them, I'VE DONE IT a few times, once for 30 days, other time for 40 days, twice for a week, etc. I know how it works. Like they say TALK IS CHEAP, experience is king, before trying to preach to others, do it for a change, experience it, and then talk, but of course it wont happen because they wont even bother to try, but of course they are the experts, they know better than those of us that have done it.

[carlosacao]

Those people remind me of the religious fundamentalist, I would call them "medical fundamentalist", they talk the same way.

Planet Earth is a few billion years old? nonsense, my holy book says that it was created in just 6 days and that was a few thousand years ago. Same way of talking and same level of intelligence. They follow the all knowing god of western medical science, the same one that said until recently that acupuncture didn't work, now they admit that it does work, the problem is, they also say that they don't have a clue about why it works...... hummm that tell me that they still have a few things to learn and discover, but try to tell those guys.