Another Karon Drowning

[HDRIDER]

Hi

Can see somebody deleted my last comment, i wonder why, would be nice to know

[micaw60]

I was with my family at Surin Beach late yesterday afternoon and apparently a 12 years old Thai boy was missing believed to be drowned also. The mother was at work but arrived later obviously distressed but being smothered by people wanting to give her advice.

No news yet in the media?

[bangkokrick]

item--8--- on VDO at http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/prev...hp?news_id=1156

or

A foreign tourist drowned on Karon beach last Saturday.

One of our viewers took these videos from his mobile phone as the Phuket Tourist rescue centre staff and volunteers, brought the body off the Kata Yai beach, where they took a speed boat back to calmer waters, after finding him drowned in heavy swells near the north end of Karon beach on Saturday afternoon. Martin Carpenter, British Honorary Consul in Phuket, told Andaman News that the deceased British man was James Henry Patton, only 21 years of age. His family in the UK has been contacted and proceedings are underway for James to be flown back to London this coming week. James was visiting Phuket with his girlfriend, who returned home to UK on Sunday as scheduled. Martin Carpenter, and the British Embassy in Bangkok, are doing all they can to assist the family at this tragic time. This incident followed a similar accident on Friday when a French man and Thai woman also apparently drowned at Karon, during high waves and rip currents. The red flags are visible on most beaches warning people of the danger in swimming now during the monsoon season. Our condolences go out to the affected families.

Andaman News NBT TV (VHF dial) at 8.30am & perhaps repeats on Phuket Cable TV channel 1 at 3.30pm, 7pm, 1.30am & 6.30am, broadcast to Phang Nga, Krabi & Phuket provinces & maybe Mazz Radio FM108 at 7pm in Phuket, Monday June 8th 2009 & http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/ & www.YouTube.com/AndamanNews

What an absolute tragedy.

RIP young man.

Regards, Richard

[Sir Burr]

Hi

Can see somebody deleted my last comment, i wonder why, would be nice to know

Yeah.......me too.

[Valentine]

Hi

Can see somebody deleted my last comment, i wonder why, would be nice to know

Yeah.......me too.

Its the "summer" conspiracy.

[toptuan]

Hi

As somebody say, get some big signs up. maybe it will help maybe, and i have hears the same thing about red flags, a lot dont know what it is, but maybe the signs is not good for the Summer Season, very bad this, make me angry......

This is the second time you've referred to "the Summer Season."

THIS IS NOT THE SUMMER SEASON.

Summer in Thailand is March through May. This is now Monsoon Season (or the rainy season) which features turbulent weather with heavy rains and high seas.

Sweetheart, you're not in Bristol or Malibu any more. The fewer times to you refer to "summer season," the less the tourists will have the impression that this is just like summer back home where the seas, rivers and lakes are at their optimum for water sports. No so in Southeast Asia.

[steelepulse]

Hi

As somebody say, get some big signs up. maybe it will help maybe, and i have hears the same thing about red flags, a lot dont know what it is, but maybe the signs is not good for the Summer Season, very bad this, make me angry......

This is the second time you've referred to "the Summer Season."

THIS IS NOT THE SUMMER SEASON.

Summer in Thailand is March through May. This is now Monsoon Season (or the rainy season) which features turbulent weather with heavy rains and high seas.

Sweetheart, you're not in Bristol or Malibu any more. The fewer times to you refer to "summer season," the less the tourists will have the impression that this is just like summer back home where the seas, rivers and lakes are at their optimum for water sports. No so in Southeast Asia.

Toptuan,

You're a bit behind the tongue in cheek usage of "summer season".  The authorities that be decided to rename low season to summer season to attract more tourists.  Most of us here don't agree with this term as it's really the "dangerous season" due to the big waves and riptides that come with the seasonal monsoon.

[Valentine]

Hi

As somebody say, get some big signs up. maybe it will help maybe, and i have hears the same thing about red flags, a lot dont know what it is, but maybe the signs is not good for the Summer Season, very bad this, make me angry......

This is the second time you've referred to "the Summer Season."

THIS IS NOT THE SUMMER SEASON.

Summer in Thailand is March through May. This is now Monsoon Season (or the rainy season) which features turbulent weather with heavy rains and high seas.

Sweetheart, you're not in Bristol or Malibu any more. The fewer times to you refer to "summer season," the less the tourists will have the impression that this is just like summer back home where the seas, rivers and lakes are at their optimum for water sports. No so in Southeast Asia.

As previously mentioned there are some tongue in cheek referrals to the "summer" season but yes the issue of drownings is a serious business.

Back home means different things to us all, depends on where you come from. In previous postings I have mentioned about the shows on TV featuring well known beaches in Australia & New Zealand which can be far from safe during their summer season, mainly because people ignore the warning signs.

Scubabudda has taken a good step by contacting the Phuket Surf Lifesaving Association which is a very new group but with community cooperation & funding could provide a viable alternative to the woeful safety standards which exist on our beaches. If we all feel strongly enough about this maybe something positive will come from it.

[toptuan]

Toptuan,

You're a bit behind the tongue in cheek usage of "summer season". The authorities that be decided to rename low season to summer season to attract more tourists. Most of us here don't agree with this term as it's really the "dangerous season" due to the big waves and riptides that come with the seasonal monsoon.

Ah, tongue in cheek! Sorry, I missed the emoticon that probably should have been there!

Nevertheless, you really helped to drive my point home. The local authorities, then, have really done a disservice to the safety of the public, for the love of money. Such a strange thing to happen in Thailand. (Now THAT'S tongue-in-cheek).

[huggybear]

The sea didnt look that bad but having been in it further up the beach could feel that there was a vicious riptide which will catch people out.

The biggest thing that people don't understand is how quickly a sand bottom can change. Waves will pound in one spot, create a bit of a dugout, and bang you can have a serious, undertow, a whirlpool situation which can hold you down. Oftentimes what you will see is stirred up sand heading out to see. Sometimes I've experimented, held my breath and gotten shot out the back, goofing around for me, but serious and life threatening to people who don't know the water or worse yet, are panicking.

Breaks my heart to hear of these deaths.

[HDRIDER]

Hi

I only use the name “Summer Season” in an ironic way, i don’t like that word at all, i try to get some people from Summer Season to reply to this, i am sure they read it, i had a post there was deleted, maybe i was a little too angry when i wrote it, but i still don’t know why it was deleted, i can put it in a much nicer way but it will probably be deleted again. But let the “Summer Season “ people have a say.......

[LivinginKata]

Hi

I only use the name "Summer Season" in an ironic way, i don't like that word at all, i try to get some people from Summer Season to reply to this, i am sure they read it, i had a post there was deleted, maybe i was a little too angry when i wrote it, but i still don't know why it was deleted, i can put it in a much nicer way but it will probably be deleted again. But let the "Summer Season " people have a say.......

Actually your post was deleted because of bad language/bad taste. Your point is valid otherwise.

[billythehat]

It may have been mentioned already and so I’m prepared for another finger-wagging, but here goes:

If the Thais, showing their natural sense of good humour, allows such groups as the Tourist Police to exist, then how about a farang based group of trained Lifeguards (voluntary of course) made available on a few of the beaches? Many advantages here, like culture and language, to name but a few…….maybe not, though, as it could be perceived as taking ‘jobs’ from the locals or just die (sic) from apathy….sheesh, what’s a life worth, eh?

[pagallim]

It may have been mentioned already and so I’m prepared for another finger-wagging, but here goes:

If the Thais, showing their natural sense of good humour, allows such groups as the Tourist Police to exist, then how about a farang based group of trained Lifeguards (voluntary of course) made available on a few of the beaches? Many advantages here, like culture and language, to name but a few…….maybe not, though, as it could be perceived as taking ‘jobs’ from the locals or just die (sic) from apathy….sheesh, what’s a life worth, eh?

Of course you're absolutely right in the 'self help' scenario, and I'm sure that there would be a number of volunteers for such an enterprise (though I think not enough to resource it completely, and as you rightly point out, there would be the very real risk of being exposed to accusations of 'working without permit' etc.

Instead of concentrating their efforts in coming up with marketing themes such as the joke 'summer season' etc, those in the tourist related industry should direct their efforts towards collective action and participation in providing safety and quality for the fewer and fewer tourists who want to come here, and deliver value of service for what are increasingly extortionate prices.

[steelepulse]

Just got an email from a friend that comes over in low season and surfs and kites everyday on the west coast that has rescued over double figures of drowning victims in his years here.  

Last week a young girl was brought in not breathing.  My friend noticed no one was doing CPR, so he jumped in and started, then someone else jumped in and started the heart compressions.  The girl eventually started breathing and my friend said he could hear the water gurgling in her lungs. She eventually opened her eyes and started breathing, then 30 seconds later she was back to being unconscious.  An ambulance eventually arrived and she was taken away unconscious.  

Scary stuff knowing there is no one trained in lifesaving here on an island that is known to have dangerous rips and currents.

[ScubaBuddha]

Just got an email from a friend that comes over in low season and surfs and kites everyday on the west coast that has rescued over double figures of drowning victims in his years here.

Last week a young girl was brought in not breathing. My friend noticed no one was doing CPR, so he jumped in and started, then someone else jumped in and started the heart compressions. The girl eventually started breathing and my friend said he could hear the water gurgling in her lungs. She eventually opened her eyes and started breathing, then 30 seconds later she was back to being unconscious. An ambulance eventually arrived and she was taken away unconscious.

Scary stuff knowing there is no one trained in lifesaving here on an island that is known to have dangerous rips and currents.

Wow that is great he is will and able to help. Scary numbers. I am curious though, just for the sake of accuracy, what you mean by "rescued ..drowning victims." You mean each of them were unconscious when he brought them ashore and he did CPR, like the girl in the story? Or just people in trouble? I ask because a drowning drowning victim is someone who has died from drowning. It's like people who say, "I was electrocuted." Can't be, because death is required. Just curious.

Regaurding the story of the girl: Often near drowning victims end up having complications later due to a condition created in the lungs where a substance called pulmonary surfectant, a kind of lubricant for the lungs, is washed away by the water, and the person can't breath again. Usually occurs hours after the near drowning, but it's possible that was a factor in what caused the girl to go unconsious again. It's critical anyone that recovers from a fear drowning seek emergency care immediately. Surfectant can actually be re-applied back to the lungs, and sometimes surfectant from animals is used.

[steelepulse]

Guess I should have said, 99.9% "potential" drowning victim as for sure they would have died had they not been pulled out.  I'd say that the number of people pulled out by my friend is over 40 over the past 7 years.  Many of them were already under the water with no breath left.

Edited June 11, 2009 by steelepulse

[sriracha john]

A foreign tourist drowned on Karon beach last Saturday

One of our viewers took these videos from his mobile phone as the Phuket Tourist rescue centre staff and volunteers, brought the body off the Kata Yai beach, where they took a speed boat back to calmer waters, after finding him drowned in heavy swells near the north end of Karon beach on Saturday afternoon.

Martin Carpenter, British Honorary Consul in Phuket, told Andaman News that the deceased British man was James Henry Patton, only 21 years of age. His family in the UK has been contacted and proceedings are underway for James to be flown back to London this coming week.

James was visiting Phuket with his girlfriend, who returned home to UK on Sunday as scheduled.

Martin Carpenter, and the British Embassy in Bangkok, are doing all they can to assist the family at this tragic time.

This incident followed a similar accident on Friday when a French man and Thai woman also apparently drowned at Karon, during high waves and rip currents. The red flags are visible on most beaches warning people of the danger in swimming now during the monsoon season. Our condolences go out to the affected families.

Andaman News NBT TV

James Patton and his fiancee Bethan Jones

Family's warnings after young man drowns in Thailand

THE family of a 21-year-old man from Hindhead who drowned off the coast of Thailand say they are "determined" to make people more aware of the dangers of strong waves and rip currents in the area.

James Patton’s relatives said his death could have been prevented by simple measures such as warnings from tour operators, English signs for international tourists on the beaches around Phuket, and red flags being flown.

His mother Lynn Creasey, who booked the holiday for Mr Patton and his fiancee Bethan Jones, said her son had been told by tour operators that the waters "could be choppy" but were "quite safe".

“James was six foot three, a very strong swimmer and very fit indeed,” she added. “He was absolutely idolised by his loving family, he was a very popular, talented young man with his whole future ahead of him.”

His sister Charlotte said the invisible rip currents were common knowledge to everyone living in the area, and she criticised the Thai authorities for not passing the information on to tourists.

“To know his life could so easily have been spared makes our loss even more difficult to comprehend,” she added.

“How can the local authorities turn a blind eye to such a dangerous and unstoppable threat to human life?"

“If any good can come from such a terrible situation then we, as a family, are determined to make that happen."

"No more lives should be lost and nobody should have to suffer the indescribable pain that we are enduring.”

Mr Patton, a DJ, died on June 6 on the last day of the holiday. He and his fiancee had been celebrating their engagement and 21st birthdays, and Ms Jones is expecting their first baby in November.

The couple were swimming at Karon beach when it is thought a wave engulfed them and dragged them out to sea. A swimmer managed to pull Ms Jones to safety, but Mr Patton’s body was found more than a kilometre offshore.

Reports suggest a 12-year-old Thai girl, a 31-year-old Thai woman, and a 43-year-old French tourist drowned at nearby beaches the same weekend, and an Australian family were rescued days earlier.

Thai media said that the beach patrols normally organised by Phuket authorities had been suspended due to lack of funding, and no permanent signs warning holidaymakers about the dangers had been put up in case tourists were scared off.

Mr Patton’s friends and family have set up a Facebook page dedicated to his memory and to warn potential tourists about the risks of swimming in Phuket, particularly during the monsoon season.

A funeral will be held next week, but exact details have not yet been confirmed. There will be a memorial party at the Woodcock pub in Churt Road, Hindhead, from 8pm on July 3.

- Get Surrey News (UK) / 2009-06-16

[ScubaBuddha]

One thing that could help...the flags and signs need to be posted closer to the water, near or below the high tide mark.Unfortunatley they are usually up in the trees near the road, and not at every entry point to the beach. And many more of them are needed. As mentoined, someone needs to update them to give them credibility. Use western beaches as a model. That's how it's done.

Like this:

or this:

4 maybe 5 flags in sight.

Click on thumb for larger image.

And maybe a flier like these could be given to all hotels and their guests and posted all over the beaches to educate.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Scubabuddha

[ScubaBuddha]

Some good tips for not drowning. Actually talks about Phuket in the low season as being one of the worst spots.

http://tezzasthaiinfo.blogspot.com/2007/04...t-drowning.html

[NBT TV Phuket]

item-5---- on VDO at http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/prev...hp?news_id=1174

or

Rescue boats and personnel are added on Karon beach to keep watch for beach goers’ safety during the monsoon weather.

To take precaution measures the Phuket provincial authority has deployed boats and personnel to be stationed at vulnerable beaches to warn swimmers that they should not swim during rough seas. According to Chotnarin Koedsom, the provincial chief of Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Office, three boats are to be stationed at Kata, Karon and Nong Harn (lake) to assist or rescue swimmers in distress. The move follows a few recent drowning cases at western beaches. Chotnarin further explained that nine navy officers, four staff from charity foundations and six civil volunteers are also assigned to rotate the work in three shifts per day. He stressed that the navy officers are very professional and well trained. This operation is to ease the problem, while waiting for the Provincial Administration Organization which expects to take a month before it can deploy contracted beach guard to beaches.

Andaman News NBT TV (VHF dial) at 8.30am & perhaps repeats on Phuket Cable TV channel 1 at 3.30pm, 7pm 1.30am & 6.30am, broadcast to Phang Nga, Krabi & Phuket provinces & maybe Mazz Radio FM108 at 7pm in Phuket, Wednesday 17 June 2009 & http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/

& www.YouTube.com/AndamanNews

[HDRIDER]

Hi

I really hope that tourist start to stay away from "Summer Season" no feed back from the guys at summer season, i send them a mail, but no reply, just what i thought, will try to get it in newspaper back in EU

[LeungKen]

Phuket & Thailand Government Agencies are complaining about too few tourists coming here.

Perhaps a little help is needed to keep those alive that do come.

How many swimmers are to die before a proper Beach Life-Guard System is put in place ?

[ScubaBuddha]

Hi

I really hope that tourist start to stay away from "Summer Season" no feed back from the guys at summer season, i send them a mail, but no reply, just what i thought, will try to get it in newspaper back in EU

Great to see they are doing something at last. I doubt it's much solace the loved ones of the deceased. Let's hope they follow through.

I think the "Summer Season" relabeling is fine, even good, (I am biased as my livelihood depends on tourists) but I will qualify that by saying summer season promotion must come with the safety and education concerning the changes in the oceans at these times, as there would be at just about any other tourist destination in the world, developing country or not. (Thailand may still be a developing, 2nd world, and in parts, 3rd world, but Phuket in most ways is not.)

The other issue is security. Everyone is saying, and some are noticing increase in crime, which is normal every low...er...excuse me...summer season, but it is going to be potentially worse with the slower economic times, pig flu etc. I won't go so far and the the police are doing a good job as of yet, but I am a bit of a night owl, thus I am out at night a lot, often jogging on the beach very late, and I see a lot of police out tht look to be actively patrolling and in the Kata/Karon area. Makes me feel comfortable at least.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Scubabuddha

[LivinginKata]

Thursday, June 18, 2009

Phuket beaches finally get lifeguards

TEMPTING FATE? Tourists ignore the red warning flags and test the waters at Karon Beach this morning. Photo by James Goyder.

PHUKET: It will come as little consolation to the families and friends of those who drowned off Phuket's beaches in recent weeks, but lifeguards are finally in place on 12 of the popular local strands.

New signs have also been erected at the beaches alerting tourists to the dangers of swimming during the monsoon season.

A spokesman for the Phuket Provincial Administration Organization (PPAO), Jalernkiat Kaewpetch, said a company signed a contract to manage beach safety across Phuket on Tuesday.

LP Laikhum Co Ltd set to work immediately, erecting the signs at Nai Harn, Kata Noi, Kata, Karon, Patong, Laem Singh, Kamala, Surin, Bang Tao, Nai Thon, Nai Yang and Mai Khao beaches.

At Karon Beach, a sign included a message in English signed by Karon Mayor Thavee Thongcham.

"The monsoon season has started and on certain days the sea can be very dangerous. Whenever the red flag is placed, we urge you not to swim in the sea as there are invisible undercurrents which are almost impossible to detect from the shore.

"Too many accidents occur every year on the Andaman Sea beaches and we cannot assume responsibility for every one," it said.

The signs explain, in Thai and English, the red and yellow flag system intended to stop tourists from swimming when conditions are dangerous.

Red flags mean people should not enter the water; yellow flags mean swimming is allowed, but lifeguards are not on duty; while yellow-red flags mark areas patrolled by lifeguards.

Under the contract, LP Laikhum will have to provide certified lifeguards on duty from 8am until 7pm daily.

On Karon Beach this morning most swimmers were in areas under lifeguard supervision and marked on either side by yellow-red flags.

Confusingly, yellow flags were also on display in these areas, even though lifeguards were on duty.

There were also people swimming in red-flagged areas of the beach.

Doug Cowmeadow, a tourist from Australia said, "I saw a girl getting in trouble earlier in what couldn't have been more than two feet of water. I was watching quite closely because I thought I might have to rescue her."

One man happily swimming in an area marked with red flags was Anders Kjell from Sweden. "I know what the red flags mean but I am not going in too deep so I don't think it is very dangerous," he said.

There are still a number of pathways onto the beach that have no visible signs to warn tourists of the dangers of swimming in the sea.

"There are signs, but you could easily get onto the beach without seeing one. We come from Australia so we know what a red flag means, but would someone who is not used to beaches realize its significance?" Mr Cowmeadow asked.

"I did see a sign a bit further up the road, but I think there's need for more." Mr Kjell said.

Karon Beach remains accessible along its entire length from Patak West Road, better known simply as "the beach road". – James Goyder and Tipwarintron Tanaakarachod

-- Phuket Gazette 2009-06-18

[Rawkus]

<snip>

One man happily swimming in an area marked with red flags was Anders Kjell from Sweden. "I know what the red flags mean but I am not going in too deep so I don't think it is very dangerous," he said.</snip>

<snip>"There are signs, but you could easily get onto the beach without seeing one. We come from Australia so we know what a red flag means, but would someone who is not used to beaches realize its significance?" Mr Cowmeadow asked.</snip>

<snip>"I did see a sign a bit further up the road, but I think there's need for more." Mr Kjell said.</snip>

Personal responsibility takes a massive facepalm as Darwin rubs his hands gleefully in anticipation.

Blaming Phuket, TAT, Thailand et al for the drownings is asinine; these are the same clowns that think that the laws of physics don't apply when they ride a scooter in Phuket on holiday.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Rawkus

[ScubaBuddha]

Some activity down at Karon circle right now. Hopefully our new lifeguards are on it.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Scubabuddha

[ScubaBuddha]

Some activity down at Karon circle right now. Hopefully our new lifeguards are on it.

Could be http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.as...0&display=1

It's possible they were still looking for the boy this morning.

[steelepulse]

There's an update in the gazette about the missing boy.  Lifeguard saying the undertow was too strong for him etc.  I wonder why the lifeguards don't have fins, some sort of surfboard, and a rescue buoy.  I've not seen any of the Karon lifeguards with this most basic of equipment, although I have seen a nice 4WD truck that the guards drive in Kata when they aren't too busy renting out their jet skis.

[Valentine]

There's an update in the gazette about the missing boy. Lifeguard saying the undertow was too strong for him etc. I wonder why the lifeguards don't have fins, some sort of surfboard, and a rescue buoy. I've not seen any of the Karon lifeguards with this most basic of equipment, although I have seen a nice 4WD truck that the guards drive in Kata when they aren't too busy renting out their jet skis.

I agree as I often see a top of the range pick up around town during the day with Phuket Lifeguard logo (they are not the only ones as I see Red Cross have two Toyota Prados which cost 4 to 5 million each when a Fortuner would easily suffice leaving a lot of funds for other more useful causes). It would be OK if it was equipped with some emergency equipment & stationed at the most likely trouble spot. Incredible that the lifeguards do not have the most basic rescue gear such as big surfboard, neoprene tube & the lifeguards having proof of being strong & competent swimmers. There is also the fact that jet skis are used all over the world for surf rescues.

These guys need to watch Bondi Rescue on cable TV & although I do not expect them to attain the high standards of the lifeguards at Bondi they can at least aspire to get close. This whole lifeguard contract both now & in the past just looks like one of the usual rorts prevalent in this country. I hope I am wrong & these guys do have a genuine desire to be more professional but if they are lacking in training & equipment they should ask as I am sure there are plenty of trained surf lifeguards (I am one but my methods go way back to surf belt & reel) on this island willing to assist & others who could take up the cause to provide good equipment which is only useful with the proper training.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Valentine