Fertiliser Prices

[somo]

When I checked my supplier in Chayapoum a few weeks ago 0-0-60 was 1100/50kg bag

Has the price jumped since then?

[slapout]

WatersEdge; Do you really foresee the application of Anhydrous Ammonia in the normal Thai farm situation? Granted the large farmers could afford the holding tanks and applicators, but production and transport would be a nightmare (speaking of Thailand). Not being too much of a pessimist but, the potential for self harm, waste, application time, etc vs the present use of pellet form fertilizers may be a scary scenario.

[WatersEdge]

Hi Slapout,

I suppose I drive toward the advantage,

and consider the obstacle later.

Perhaps it's too much to hope for.

The obstacle is an entire set of equipment.

Transport Tanks, Storage Tanks, Field Application Tanks

and the soil injection shanks & hoses on the tractor.

The soil must be moist to absorb the NH3.

Transport for the short term could be in 20 ft Tank Containers,

until the industry merits propane type tank trucks.

Cost is the advantage,

and since fertilizer is a major cost of any farm operation,

with under use of fertilizer greatly limiting yield in Thailand,

the effect would significantly increase the national output.

Imagine if cheap Nitrogen was applied under the seed at planting time,

so that the seed sprouted in very rich conditions.

The tanks are similar to LPG Propane,

which is transported in Thailand without terrible incident.

Tiny manual labor farms are always going to use pelleted fertilizer,

but farmers who already hire tractors to plow and plant,

could just as well hire that same tractor to also apply fertilizer.

Production is just another industrial process,

nothing particular dangerous about it.

The raw material is natural gas, which Thailand has an abundance of.

There are plants built in Africa, which use gas that formerly was flared.

The cost of a plant is high, but so is the value of the product.

Surplus production is readily sold for export.

Handling isn't inherently dangerous,

just everything done orderly.

Ammonia is irritating in a closed space,

but disperses safely in open air

It dissolves well in water, 30% NH3 in 70% Water,

which eliminates the need for pressure tanks,

but increases the weight to handle.

Thailand has a significant farm economy,

and could be much more efficient on many fronts.

With a frost free climate, sunlight could be the limiting factor.

because we have water which other countries only dream of.

The small scale of the Thai farm,

with the clumsy handling from farm to market,

prevents the country from competing on the world market.

Increasing scale, mechanization, yield, and handling efficiency across the average could enable us to compete.

The outside world is not going to help Thailand reach a competitive scale,

we have to do it for ourselves.

One grade of fertilizer is admittedly not going to do it all.

[slapout]

The farm application, yes is solvable, I have seen smaller tanks mounted on 3 point attached, applicators. The transport from refinery to distribution point in the real world is via rail, as is movement of farm grain, etc for export. In our part of the world the coop was located in a town with a rail siding. the greatest distance between coops was normally no more than 40 mile. The infrastructure in Thailand would not appear in place for this type of approach (farmers coop, rail siding, delivery/receipt of farm related products, etc)

One other observation, application can be made into a dry soil, if prepared correctly. We used sweeps for application and the soil which was prepared for planting would hold the gas with minimal loss. The one thing noticed that high temp application seemed to have significant more loss, although some felt it acceptable.

[IsaanAussie]

Watersedge and Slapout,

Can I pick your brains for comment. I have a source of NH3 in pig manure and a tractor, plough and rotary hoe and a row maker. Reading your last posts and post #25 spurs me to suggest that I could use black water from the pigs to fertilise crop land. The question is when and how, cheaply.

To clarify a little, here is the essence of the system. Pig manure is dry mucked out (>75% ) and then the pen washed to remove the remainder. Water, urine and slurry enter into one of the septic tanks.

The solids collected are combined with rice straw through a hammer mill and composted.

So if I have a bowl of manure soup, when and how do I apply productively? Ideas from you both are welcomed.

Isaanaussie

[WatersEdge]

Hi IsaanAussie

You can pump your septic tank into a sprinkler line.

The septic tank contents alone are too strong to apply undiluted to plants,

but pumping it in a diluted amount into a much larger amount of irrigation water

will work nicely.

I use a large impeller portable Honda 2" gasoline pump,

which will pump slurry fine as well.

If you have a small impeller electric water pump,

you'll want to screen the intake,

as the occasional large particle will clog your pump,

causing a troublesome job to pull the pump apart.

If the dry hammer milled manure is small enough to pass through the sprinkler nozzles,

then it can be sprinkler spread as well,

also with a large impeller pump.

Dry milled manure is more effective if placed in the seed row,

thus concentrated in the root zone

so it becomes a question of labor.

Spreading it by sprinkler is certainly less work.

This assumes that you have sprinklers on your field.

Flood or furrow irrigation will work just as well,

it's only a matter of getting the manure on the soil.

I currently flush my hog barn with a large water volume to level retention trenches in the field,

as a quick cheap way to move large amounts of manure

This results in a manure enriched strip the full length of the field,

which can then be dug out to spread a short distance outward in the field.

My next improvement is to screen and sprinkle the barn flush.

Fresh wet manure is too concentrated to distribute directly on plants,

but when diluted in a much larger amount of irrigation water is not harmful.

Your septic tank is a ready made methane generator, tap a hose into it and burn.

[slapout]

The soup you refer to, depends on the volume, solids in it, thickness, etc. Have seen the application of something similar (liquid from large dairy operation) it was rigged to be gravity spread from a holding(transport) tank via 3" valve, to 3" pipe with holes drilled about every 9 " or so, about 20 ft in width behind tractor with chisel plow to partially cover and smooth out implement tracks. This was done, time wise, with the idea that it would get a good rain prior to finish work to prepare for planting.

The dry manure, from feed lots/pens was normally just put in pile and when volume was there it was spread via manure spreader (pto driven) a couple months prior to planting. For a ancient idea and a early 20th century machine shop, with a shade tree mechanic, the modern (manure spreader) was created. Not sure of the purpose of adding straw via hammer mill, if additional bulk is wanted for manure, just add as you stack manure and let set for a few weeks, most manure spreaders mixed somewhat, the material thrown by the spreader whatever it is. (if dry) Just some ideas

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks guys, your comments duely noted. A few clarifications, The septic tanks are basically intended to allow sediments to settle out of the waste water. Less than 25% of solids are intended to be included and the collections pits are filtered to remove all but the finest materials. I am composting the solids with straw and other things to produce compost which will be used as a to fertilise and condition some poor quality soil.

Again my thanks

Isaanaussie

[rice555]

Hello All, I saved this picture on applying wet stuff from pigs, not a cheap setup, but over comes some of the limitations of pumping.

rice555

[nitecm]

Hi

Anyone know what is the current price of ferterlizer for 16-20-0 at Cgiang mai .

Will the flood affect the price and supply ?

Last month I have checked THAT Amphoe Pai sell at 860 Baht and Chiang maI 850 BAHT