ProfessorFart Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) Having been a learner of Thai I find a lot of the posturing and persiflage from the 'big guns' on this branch, once a question has been answered, not only irrelevant but also confusing to the learner. 'This is a Thai language branch' I hear you cry, but looking at this branch, it is used mainly by beginners/intermediates who need a bit of guidance and not a discourse in the Sanskritic roots of Thai pronouns. If the posters on this branch really want to help learners may I suggest keeping it simple. If you want to show off your skills then surely an 'advanced' branch may be arranged for your wankfests? Edited February 20, 2005 by ProfessorFart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 couldn't disagree with you more. there is no posturing nor is there any persiflage from the big guns. there is enough of that in your post above. if you want watered down thai language knowledge that is easy to assimilate and digest then go and buy any one of the million little guide books that will teach you how to say hello and when to take your shoes off. as for the thai language forum , any beginner can filter out the advanced stuff if he is afraid of reading it in case he/she might actually learn something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarn Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) I must disagree. I think it's up to you to decide, once a question has been answred to your satisfaction, to go further, or not. In fact, you should be studying at a step or two above your level, many professional teachers would argue. When I first starting learning Thai at AUA, my teacher would teach us the origin of the words, alternative uses, and the 'logic' behind phrases and compound words... At the time, it seemed like boring and useless stuff for this beginner, but I know how valuable all that was in my learning process over the years in helping me to figure meanings from unknown words, and to make pretty good guesses when formulating many new (for me) Thai words and expressions. Also, since language is a direct reflection of the local culture, the more you learn or are exposed to, the better your window into Thailand, its culture, and its people. Edited February 20, 2005 by Ajarn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarn Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I've also enjoyed this forum because it's been relatively free of any kind of personal posturing, except for modesty and support Lot's of smart and experienced folks here way outa my league. Thanks to all of those who come here to try to offer support and clarity in an environment fraught with confusions and misconceptions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaaaa Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 well, I think both opinions are valid. briefly - perhaps it isn't bad idea to make at least note on the thread - for beginners or next levels.... if not separate subforums... taxe and ajarn a right too... although Prof. pointed a common problem for whole TV Forum - irrelevance of posts; at least in Language forum it is much less than else where; but it is obvious fact that there is a tendency for show off and smartassness... in many cases instead of answering simple Q some or many of those who comment start to crack jokes etc. but again - in this language Forum it is not so much.... in fact I'd say it is one of the most civil here - from my observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaaaa Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 another thing came to my mind - there is different approach in learning foreign language. the traditional one, widely spread - is to start teach beginner from ABC or alphabet/ characters and so on... then put characters into syllables, then into words > phrases > sentences > speech etc. and then only person can realy start to learn spoken language and be able to polish and refine one's skills to make it more or less smooth or what is called fluent. BUT this approach even though most common prooved to be not very effective for learning foreign language. only for one's own native language or mother-language. another approach is - to teach by using transliterations of characters in foreign language with characters of one's language; in other words - phonetical (sounds) or spoken language first. because after all this is what any language is for - for speaking / communication. in any country/ nation/ culture we learn first language from parents - SPOKEN language, by listening and attempting to repeat what they say etc. and by the certain age - depending on individual and some local factors - of may be 5-7 y.o. child goes to shcool where they start to teach those characters etc. so, the fact is - we learn SPOKEN language during 2-4 first years of our lives - and by the time we go to school we are quite fluent in it and then only start to learn grammar and written language and ecverything accompanies it. modern education system in the world puts things upside down by trying to teach written language first. yes, it is confusing, hard (well, again, depending on individual and some other circumstances) even boring ... nad the main thing - dissapointing. because we want to learn , say Thai, language - to SPEAK - but when it takes sooooo long time to go through all the characters and grammar and all the intricacies - most ppl feel like it is almost impossible to make it. THE MOTIVE, driving force for doing anything, especially learning - is usually lost or forgotten. that is why most of ppl as I saw and spoke with in Taiwan or here in THailand (examples of 2 countries not from British Commonwealth) even though have been studying English for years - school, high school, University, some even post graduated - can SPEAK it. they are shy, or afraid to make mistakes or whatever reason - but main reason that they were not tought HOW TO SPEAK. my wife graduated from Ramkamkhaen Uni here in Bkk and English was her major in the first year, then second major. she admits that she simply couldn't practice itsufficiently. and anyone can ask oneself: waht percent of what we've been thought in school and even more recently in Universities we still remember and then - from that percantage REALY USE in daily life ? that's the point - when we don't use it - we don't need it and forget, because no interest or motive. many ppl may have even Ph.Ds as lingvists in some foreign languages - but might not be able to speak as fluent as small child for whom that language is native - why? simply because child DOES practice. so, that is another importan thing - practice ! and the best opportunity for practice is in the country where this language is spoken .... my teacher of bengali in Bangladesh told me and my classmate (Aussie guy) - that western system is something like "leanr a lot - practice a bit"; but eastern system , well, at least it used to be - different : "learn a bit - practice a lot" ! same thing was telling us our chinese teacher in Taiwan: even if you know only one word xie xie (thank you) - in Thai that is kap khun khrap / ka - just use it and practice ! and I can assure you - everybody will tell you: "oh, you speak chinese SOOOO good !" here in Thailand I have such practicall experience - I attended only 2 courses of Thai language and despites the huge amount of material given - I can remember only littlebit. but I try to speak - and ppl embarrase me all the time complimenting: oh, phut thai geng mak - chad chad ! so, I'd suggest to anyone - just try to SPEAK it ! of course it doesn't mean that no need to learn how to speak properly. but without practicing or using the knowledge - SPEAKING - one never would be able to learn language good enough to be able to communicate with people properly. sorry for long post - but I suggest and would like that specialists here in this Forum could keep in mind the difference in level and adress particular Qs accordingly. if it is a beginner - then better to use ONLY transliteration of thai words into latin characters (although it is in itself another big issue because transliteration varies very much - so far as I know there is no standartised system for Thai as there is pingyin for chinese); and if some person asks about spelling and written Thai language - then it is ok to go into subtelties of how this word is written and grammar etc. these are my few ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Having been a learner of Thai I find a lot of the posturing and persiflage from the 'big guns' on this branch, once a question has been answered, not only irrelevant but also confusing to the learner. 'This is a Thai language branch' I hear you cry, but looking at this branch, it is used mainly by beginners/intermediates who need a bit of guidance and not a discourse in the Sanskritic roots of Thai pronouns. If the posters on this branch really want to help learners may I suggest keeping it simple. If you want to show off your skills then surely an 'advanced' branch may be arranged for your wankfests? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ไอ้ตดใช้คำไม่เพราะเช่น 'wankfest', it's the right time of year for flying kites what with the strong breezes but to suggest the right honourable members of this branch indulge in ชักว่าว festivities is indeed outrageous, especially as they all seem to be married to Thai ladies. bannork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toastwars Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) /edit This is the language forum. Try to keep it civil. Edited February 20, 2005 by RDN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 maybe its my anthropology background but i love the complex posts; its a break from meh meh meh baa baa baa; and besides, when i'm not in the mood for long complex things, i just skip them..... thats why its all on a computer and not in a lecture in a univ. where u cant really walk out... here i can just turn it off.... as with all the different stupid or irrelavant posts on all the forums for the most part i just read thru real quick and ignore, like a dumb article in a newspaper.... no separate forums please, then i'll have to keep track of so many different things and its better to aim higher anyway... i'm sure i've asked lots of dumb questions and people were very patient in answering or they didnt bother, i dont take it personal, this is cyber space i dont even know what some of u look like or are really like ' mai ruu jai'.... as the thai say.... so far every one has only been helpful and i've progressed amazingly fast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaaaa Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 quality...the proffesor has created a lingering odour that is going to get right up someones nose...anyway back to the subject... aaaaaa ..... to be bored to death...thankyou <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well, yeah - surely your mocking and "smart" jokes (if not almost insults) about person's simple and straight Qs and requests - "I suggest keeping it simple" - is VERY relevent and on topic ! oh, and not boring at all - so entertaining indeed ! why won't just smart guys like you keep quite when they have nothing else to say ON THE POINT than mock and ridicule a person who asks question which realy concerns him, huh ? oh, and don't bother to answer - I almost can guess what your answer would be - some other smartass VERY ENTERTAINING and RELEVENT replica most probably.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarn Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I've also enjoyed this forum because it's been relatively free of any kind of personal posturing, except for modesty and support <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadish_sweetball Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Having been a learner of Thai I find a lot of the posturing and persiflage from the 'big guns' on this branch, once a question has been answered, not only irrelevant but also confusing to the learner. 'This is a Thai language branch' I hear you cry, but looking at this branch, it is used mainly by beginners/intermediates who need a bit of guidance and not a discourse in the Sanskritic roots of Thai pronouns. If the posters on this branch really want to help learners may I suggest keeping it simple. If you want to show off your skills then surely an 'advanced' branch may be arranged for your wankfests? People learn differently and have different approaches/tastes and goals with their Thai language studies. Those who have a linguistic background or interest like it when somebody tries to bring an expression or word into the bigger picture using scientific terminology. The forum is here for everyone, beginners and intermediate/advanced students alike and is the product of everyone's contributions, for better and for worse. Some of us are more interested in theory and some are more interested in practice. Everyone can contribute, and this means that some posts will be too advanced for some forum members, and some posts will give inaccurate or incomplete information. Nobody here in the forum is an absolute authority on Thai although educated native speakers like Khun Yoot are much more reliable than any of us farang who try to explain to the best of our abilities. Personally, I think there is a place here for all aspects of the language. If you want to change the direction of the forum or get annoyed by some posts I suggest you start to contribute more at the level you think is appropriate. Looking forward to see more of your contributions. /Meadish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandl Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 This is a forum for the discussion of the Thai language. It is not designed to teach people how to read, write, and speak Thai. There is no point in separating it into a "beginners" and "advanced" forum. For those of you who find some of the discussions a bit too complex, you can choose to ignore the post and/or the poster. This topic is closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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