Torturing Myself Over Lenses

[Tywais]

Before moving to Thailand I was a pretty avid photographer and had a Nikon FE plus a half dozen lenses including a 500mm catadioptric, all had filters but the catadioptric, too big. Sold them all just before moving here and got a Ricoh P&S due to planning on travelling a lot. Now the photography forum has got my urge back, especially with the new "toys" available.

One way to reduce dust entry is, if outdoors, be sure you are facing away from the wind and your body blocking it. Camera should be pointing down while you change lenses. Also, you may want to practice quick changing lenses to get comfortable with the feel. Also, a large ziplock bag may do what you mention above, or a film changing bag - though those are usually black and can't see what you are doing.

By the time neverdie is finished his kit is going to look like this.

[The Vulcan]

The one aspect that seems to be missing from this thread is your intended output.

Are you shooting for prints or screen viewing? What size prints? 6 x4 and locked away in an album? Thumbnails on a photo-sharing site?

I'm not being sarcastic but if any of the above is the prime intention then I would argue that a quality point and shoot (no need to worry about lens change either) would suffice.

You can then fire away in jpeg format and nobody will know the difference.

On the other hand maybe you have larger prints or even sales in mind. Maybe even submissions to stock agencies.

Then you need to address IQ and RAW content. Jpegs will be a no-no in this area.

What software will you use to develop your RAW files? What about resolution and image size? 50mb is the MINIMUM size for stock submission. Will your files upsize without interploation?

The camera/lens debate is most certainly important BUT equally so is the next stage.

Just my 2 cents worth!

[astral]

^ Skippy, you talk about a 18-200mm lense, which one are you using? You refer to image stabilisation, is that Vibration reduction?

Lenses like the 18-200mm are very flexible and save carrying others in a bag,

but you sacrifice speed and quaility. A lot depends on what you plan to photograph.

10mm or even 14mm really is quite wide, and only really beneficial for interior work, where you do not have room to

move back, or architecture. Even then you have really watch your verticals are not falling out or in.

Macro is great for close work. Some standard lenses have a macro facility, try that first, before you

invest in a special lens.

F1.4 to F2.8 is TWO stops.

BUY QUALITY / OWN QUALITY

I'd look for second hand, mint pro gear versus new consumer grade stuff.

I had the 18-200. Could not get rid of it fast enough. Too slow for me.

It will get you some good pictures but compared to the 24-70. No contest.

Why not get the 50mm f 1.4 and zoom with your feet.

Primes are so much better for walking around.

The f2,8 zooms are huge and for pros that absolutely need every mm. No?

I have the 14-24, 24 - 70 and 70-200 f2.8 but when I walk around it's my 35 f2 or 85 f1.4.

This is good advice.

VR, or IS in the Canon world is worth at least 2 stops and well worth it as you get older.

Lastly Vulcan's comments about how you want to view the results are very relevant

[neverdie]

Thanks The Vulcan & astral, you both seem to hit the nail on the head often with ur posts. I was asking about lenses in this thread because I'm at that step. My intentions regarding photos initially is to simply get into the swing of things and most of the viewing will be on the computer screen. As for the GF, she is keen to both print stuff up & gives gifts to family and friends (photos). She is also keen to get a good digital photoframe to hang in the house for everyone to view her favourite shots.

Eventually, I know she wants to study photography and end up making some money from it but its a long road. I have absolutely not much idea about photoshop programs and all of that & will probably yell out in due course to get some ideas from you all. My old experience with SLR's involved sending film away and the co. would pay for it to be processed....this is a completely different game now. Our digital stuff todate with the point and shoot jobby has an external computer drive half full.

Sorry I've not got anything else to say on the issue because I just don't know.

Im guessing you guys have discussed those issues before regarding computer programs and the like, so perhaps I should take myself up to the search bar and take a peek

[neverdie]

Before moving to Thailand I was a pretty avid photographer and had a Nikon FE plus a half dozen lenses including a 500mm catadioptric, all had filters but the catadioptric, too big. Sold them all just before moving here and got a Ricoh P&S due to planning on travelling a lot. Now the photography forum has got my urge back, especially with the new "toys" available.

One way to reduce dust entry is, if outdoors, be sure you are facing away from the wind and your body blocking it. Camera should be pointing down while you change lenses. Also, you may want to practice quick changing lenses to get comfortable with the feel. Also, a large ziplock bag may do what you mention above, or a film changing bag - though those are usually black and can't see what you are doing.

By the time neverdie is finished his kit is going to look like this.

Ur a funny chap, I wish I had a kit like that, nice bag....I'm yet to see a bag I like 100%. Do you know what brand that one is?

[The Vulcan]

Before moving to Thailand I was a pretty avid photographer and had a Nikon FE plus a half dozen lenses including a 500mm catadioptric, all had filters but the catadioptric, too big. Sold them all just before moving here and got a Ricoh P&S due to planning on travelling a lot. Now the photography forum has got my urge back, especially with the new "toys" available.

One way to reduce dust entry is, if outdoors, be sure you are facing away from the wind and your body blocking it. Camera should be pointing down while you change lenses. Also, you may want to practice quick changing lenses to get comfortable with the feel. Also, a large ziplock bag may do what you mention above, or a film changing bag - though those are usually black and can't see what you are doing.

By the time neverdie is finished his kit is going to look like this.

Ur a funny chap, I wish I had a kit like that, nice bag....I'm yet to see a bag I like 100%. Do you know what brand that one is?

Yep, it's a Lowepro Pro trekker - best bag I've ever owned.

[The Vulcan]

Thanks The Vulcan & astral, you both seem to hit the nail on the head often with ur posts. I was asking about lenses in this thread because I'm at that step. My intentions regarding photos initially is to simply get into the swing of things and most of the viewing will be on the computer screen. As for the GF, she is keen to both print stuff up & gives gifts to family and friends (photos). She is also keen to get a good digital photoframe to hang in the house for everyone to view her favourite shots.

Eventually, I know she wants to study photography and end up making some money from it but its a long road. I have absolutely not much idea about photoshop programs and all of that & will probably yell out in due course to get some ideas from you all. My old experience with SLR's involved sending film away and the co. would pay for it to be processed....this is a completely different game now. Our digital stuff todate with the point and shoot jobby has an external computer drive half full.

Sorry I've not got anything else to say on the issue because I just don't know.

Im guessing you guys have discussed those issues before regarding computer programs and the like, so perhaps I should take myself up to the search bar and take a peek

Which of course is another consideration. Full frame files from my Canon 5D (13 mp) open as 35mb in A4 format. i.e. 28 files per 1 gigabyte!

Work out how much hard drive space you'll need and the RAM to drive those type of files. Whilst working on an image with levels and curves I'm OFTEN using a 300/400 Mb file before downsizing to 8 bit and 50 Mb target!

i.e. don't forget the cost of a new computer

[neverdie]

^ Yeah both our PC's are fairly good, except the internet connections ahh thailand .

All up at the moment I have about 1.5TB in storage space, although Ive thought about getting a seperate newer external drive to back every photo up on, not a problem now but I can see it coming with those RAW files.

Thanks for the info on the Lowepro....is that your kit in the pic?

[skippybangkok]

skippy,

Obviously people with very serious money buy lenses like that & once again I doubt very much that the worlds most expensive lense would make much difference in my hands.

It would be nice to have that much money that you could just have the best of everything, BUT, it would probably also take some of the fun out of hunting for the gear too. I think I will be more than happy with middle end consumer grade stuff.

Having spent alot of time in the middle east and the outback dusty Australian areas, changing lenses is one thing that concerns me greatly.

I'm surprised that nobody has come up with some type of bag invention when you can insert the camera, two lenses & change from the outside, thus elimating 90% of the dust in the air. Naturally the bag would have to be clear and soft....ohh and something that could be cleaned easily enuf. The bag wouldnt elimate dust 100%, but it would have to be better than nothing. I've heard many people talk about changing lenses in the car etc, but for those who have experienced outback travel, the car can be one of the dustiest places to do such a job.

Cheers..... best wishes in your choice. Mine was simple - i enjoy my trip more than i enjoy dragging around tons of gear. I got so fed up ( as did the wife waiting for me ) with changing lenses, the 18-200mm filled my niche. Horses for courses of course.

[astral]

All up at the moment I have about 1.5TB in storage space, although Ive thought about getting a seperate newer external drive to back every photo up on,

Good.

A backup is essential.

[jukapot]

Serpico may have had the best suggestion of all. I have the I.8 50 mm for the following reasons

1. Its cheaper

2. I recall my 35 mm days when I avoided using the 1.4 opening for quality reasons. So I am not misssing much with the 1.8.

3. I'm tired walking around withe a telephoto sticking out banging into every thing. The 50mm is so compact it feels like a point and shoot.

4. I have a full range of f stops from 1.8 to f22 - just like the real camera I used to have.

5. The 1.8 has been around for a while with great reviews. Its one of the classic lens for only $120 in the States.

6. The camera + lens is inconspicuous and I can great candid shots by moving in closer.

Enough for the 50 mm, for all around usefulness the 18 - 135 mm provides a nice range. It will cover all shots I commonly take and is my work horse.

I also have a 70 - 300 mm. Lots of fun to use but limited in its uses.

Save some money, buy a camera kit with one or two lenses included.

[neverdie]

Serpico may have had the best suggestion of all. I have the I.8 50 mm for the following reasons

1. Its cheaper

2. I recall my 35 mm days when I avoided using the 1.4 opening for quality reasons. So I am not misssing much with the 1.8.

3. I'm tired walking around withe a telephoto sticking out banging into every thing. The 50mm is so compact it feels like a point and shoot.

4. I have a full range of f stops from 1.8 to f22 - just like the real camera I used to have.

5. The 1.8 has been around for a while with great reviews. Its one of the classic lens for only $120 in the States.

6. The camera + lens is inconspicuous and I can great candid shots by moving in closer.

Enough for the 50 mm, for all around usefulness the 18 - 135 mm provides a nice range. It will cover all shots I commonly take and is my work horse.

I also have a 70 - 300 mm. Lots of fun to use but limited in its uses.

Save some money, buy a camera kit with one or two lenses included.

Yes I agree with what you have said about the 50mm f/1.8 & at 4400 baht for a grey one, I don't think I could go wrong with that one. Now I just need to get my act together & go organise it all. Hopefully when i get proficient at using the gear I may even be confident enuf to post a pic or two....THEN again, I might just cheat and post one of the GF's pics

[Tywais]

I may even be confident enuf to post a pic or two....THEN again, I might just cheat and post one of the GF's pics

You realize there is a rule that the very first photo that comes out of the camera must be posted here. How's that for pressure?

[neverdie]

I may even be confident enuf to post a pic or two....THEN again, I might just cheat and post one of the GF's pics

You realize there is a rule that the very first photo that comes out of the camera must be posted here. How's that for pressure?

Listen talking about pressure, I have one last question about this lense situation.

The main lense I was the AF-S NIKKOR 24-70 f/2.8 has just about every Nikon feature except VR. Now we're all discussed how great this VR or Stablisation is......and the basic consensous is that it will allow shooting at shutter speeds roughly 4 to 3 times faster, although it is acknowledged that this doesnt allow anymore light than the lowests f stop setting the camera allows....SO WOULD I BE BETTER OFF to get say the AF-S VR Zoom Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6 which has VR and I would gain the benifit of VR accross my photo taking range & in low light conditions considering the VR, maybe photos taken would be as good or nearly as good as the f/2.8 lenses?

Does that make sense to anyone....with the 24-120mm lense you get the benifit of VR accross the range of ur photos?

Or are you going to tell me I should go with my first pick and go with the 24-70mm f/2.8 lense & use a tripod if stabilisation (vibration) is my problem?

I want to go order today but im getting wobbly feet, as i feel this primary lense pick is very important....I wont have the cash to splash around next month, if the choice is no good

thanks in advance

[Tingnongnoi]

don't think the vr is as necessary on the shorter range of the 24-70 to be honest, as much as it would be on 200 or 300 mm and haven't seen too many good reviews of the 24-120. Another option to look at if you are definitely going with the D300 would be the 17-55mm f/2.8 high quality and produces great images, but around 10,000+ baht cheaper than the 24-70

[neverdie]

don't think the vr is as necessary on the shorter range of the 24-70 to be honest, as much as it would be on 200 or 300 mm and haven't seen too many good reviews of the 24-120. Another option to look at if you are definitely going with the D300 would be the 17-55mm f/2.8 high quality and produces great images, but around 10,000+ baht cheaper than the 24-70

Thanks Ting, Ive been PMing a few of the others to get them in here as well, was just about to send you one cos I saw u were online but you beat me too it .

I actually got a price on that lense at 58k, but had decided to go with the otherone because in a few months time will probably buy a real wide angle job, hence the lower end of that lense would be double up some more. It doesnt have VR either, BUT I note your very good point about VR probably not coming into play over the 24-70 range. I probably just need to get over this and get on with it. Am waiting for a call back from a shop regarding delivery of the bits they dont have, might delay the order until tommorrow morning. DECISIONS DECISIONS. Thanks for your help.

[Serpico]

VR is better for the longer telephoto lenses.

I doubt Nikon will put VR in their pro gear under 105 mm. They do put VR in some of their slower consumer zooms.

The 24-70 is just plain awesome. Sharp, sharp, sharp.

If you get a tripod, get a very good one. So many buy a cheaper model then later realize how important a stable platform is.

[Serpico]

don't think the vr is as necessary on the shorter range of the 24-70 to be honest, as much as it would be on 200 or 300 mm and haven't seen too many good reviews of the 24-120. Another option to look at if you are definitely going with the D300 would be the 17-55mm f/2.8 high quality and produces great images, but around 10,000+ baht cheaper than the 24-70

Thanks Ting, Ive been PMing a few of the others to get them in here as well, was just about to send you one cos I saw u were online but you beat me too it .

I actually got a price on that lense at 58k, but had decided to go with the otherone because in a few months time will probably buy a real wide angle job, hence the lower end of that lense would be double up some more. It doesnt have VR either, BUT I note your very good point about VR probably not coming into play over the 24-70 range. I probably just need to get over this and get on with it. Am waiting for a call back from a shop regarding delivery of the bits they dont have, might delay the order until tommorrow morning. DECISIONS DECISIONS. Thanks for your help.

If you go for a wide zoom, I highly recommend the 17-35 instead of the 14-24.

Especially if you go to FX later on. 17 is very very wide on FX.

This lens also takes filters which you will need if you do lots of landscapes.

[neverdie]

Thanks Serpico,

Interestingly, we just had a telephone call back from one shop. I was told that they have checked with their head office & they can't get anymore D300's . I have also noticed around several of the shops that deal with Nikon, they also don't have D300. As to the same with the 24-70mm lense, they havent got any of them either. They also told me they don't have the Macro lense I have picked either. This isnt a small shop, its one of the larger ones with many outlets.

So, I'm left asking myself, those few D300's and other 24-70mm lenses that I saw, are they on their way out? As others have said the D300 is getting a bit long in the tooth, are they about to relase perhaps a D400 or are they going to pull that level of Camera, letting people jump from the much more affordable D90 to the much more expensive D700?

I wonder what is going on. Thinking about ringing Nikon, wondering if theres any point in doing so ?

I'm now faced with jump now & drive around to half a dozen different shops to get the bits, which I'm really trying to avoid or WAIT, but WAIT FOR HOW LONG?

[Tingnongnoi]

don't think they are about to replace the 24-70, it has always been a little hard to get hold of though I think. As for the D300 there are always plenty of rumors of a D400 or a D300s about to come out. The D300s is the one being talked about now an upgrade of the D300 with video also this is rumored to be out in August. There is also talk that the 70-200 lens is about to be upgraded also in November and a 24 m pixel D700x then too

Edited July 16, 2009 by Tingnongnoi

[neverdie]

don't think they are about to replace the 24-70, it has always been a little hard to get hold of though I think. As for the D300 there are always plenty of rumors of a D400 or a D300s about to come out. The D300s is the one being talked about now an upgrade of the D300 with video also. There is also talk that the 70-200 lens is about to be upgraded also

Ting, ur a man with ur finger on the pulse, do you have any links with forums or sites that are talking about this....perhaps some of the others, Bard etc were right, maybe I should be trying to be patient for a little longer.

[Tingnongnoi]

nikonrumors.com has a lot of info there, how reliable it is I don't know

[neverdie]

Thanks I will have a look. Its like alot of things, especially on the internet, you have to dicifer where the truth lies

It never ceases to amaze me how many sites and things are actually out there.

[Tywais]

The main lense I was the AF-S NIKKOR 24-70 f/2.8 has just about every Nikon feature except VR. Now we're all discussed how great this VR or Stablisation is......and the basic consensous is that it will allow shooting at shutter speeds roughly 4 to 3 times faster, although it is acknowledged that this doesnt allow anymore light than the lowests f stop setting the camera allows....

One thing to understand and that the VR compensates for camera movement and reduces blur the same as using a faster shutter speed and not the same as an aperature f-stop correction. In other words, it's a change in shutter speed effective stop and not aperture. The 2.8 will allow more light in at a given speed and as such allow to use lower ISOs (that is less noise). As others have mentioned, at that length I don't think the VR is very crucial.

Summary: Using an f2.8 gives more light gathering, thus higher shutter speed can be used for the same ISO. If you go up to 3.5-5.6 then you need a much longer shutter time or higher ISO, both compromises I would rather not have to worry about. The above seems to be a good choice to start with as a general purpose walk around lens.

[neverdie]

Tywais,

it's a change in shutter speed effective stop and not aperture

okay, ive got that, i need to learn to construct my sentences more better or more goodly than i have before

thanx 4 ur help

[monkfish]

D90s also a good Camera

Probably better than mi D200

What ever you buy it will be out of date in 2 years

[astral]

The main lense I was the AF-S NIKKOR 24-70 f/2.8 has just about every Nikon feature except VR. Now we're all discussed how great this VR or Stablisation is......and the basic consensous is that it will allow shooting at shutter speeds roughly 4 to 3 times faster, although it is acknowledged that this doesnt allow anymore light than the lowests f stop setting the camera allows....SO WOULD I BE BETTER OFF to get say the AF-S VR Zoom Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6 which has VR and I would gain the benifit of VR accross my photo taking range & in low light conditions considering the VR, maybe photos taken would be as good or nearly as good as the f/2.8 lenses?

Does that make sense to anyone....with the 24-120mm lense you get the benifit of VR accross the range of ur photos?

Or are you going to tell me I should go with my first pick and go with the 24-70mm f/2.8 lense & use a tripod if stabilisation (vibration) is my problem?

I want to go order today but im getting wobbly feet, as i feel this primary lense pick is very important....I wont have the cash to splash around next month, if the choice is no good

thanks in advance

Sorry I am a bit late here with my comments if you want to order today.

VR will help you across the range of focal length, but is less critical at the shorter focal lengths.

We are talking about exposure here.

1/250 at F2.8 is the same as 1/125 at F4.

If you change the shutter speed to compensate for handshake, then you must also change the aperture.

If I remember rightly the rule of thumb is 1/focal length to get the slowest shutter speed for

a particular lens. eg 300mm 1/300 is the best you will be able to hand hold, 1/500 would be better.

The older you get the worse it becomes and you will need a faster shutter speed.

When I was 20 I could hand hold a 50mm lens at 1/15, but not any longer.

Using a tripod changes all that, but you do not want to carry a tripod all the time?

Leaving aside all the obvious puns, size does matter.

In the Canon range the 450D is the smallest(and lightest), then 50D, then 5D and finally the 1D.

That means more weight to carry around, and have hanging round your neck.

I expect the same is true in the Nikon range.

[neverdie]

Once again thanx astral, I'm going to make a few more inquiries now before I jump with the D300, but my lenses are fixed.....unless they release something new....ohhh brother

had a good laugh about ur size really does matter comment and I have no problems carry a tri-pod, have for years.

[jukapot]

There are probably 60 people giving you advice - each of us think we have the best camera made. I guess it really doesn't matter what camera you buy, you'll love it as much as we all love our own cameras. Tomorrow go buy a camera and then you can join us in bragging about your camera.

:D

When you get to a fork in the road, take it !!!.

[astral]

Jukapot does have a point, while you are waiting you could be out taking photos.

I am a Canon man, but looking at the spec for the D300, it is quite impressive.

There may be something better coming, but do you really want to wait????