Crackdown On Back-to-back Tourist Visa Applications

[wintermute]

Personally I think that it would be a good idea to start screening people who are still in the country to check what they are doing, is their visa and/or work permit in place and where their funds are coming from.

I know several people who are either independently well off and own a place in Thailand and just happen to live here or earn income through outside sources such as the internet or stock market. This means these people have to leave Thailand or get married in order to stay.

Oh well.

[truthfulfox]

finally ! was about time. i guess in your "civilized" country you welcome illegal workers with open arms...

Yes we do then after a few years we give them an amnesty and let them stay(Uk)

Yabaaa. even worse in Belgium: we regularise their illegal stay (by 20,000 units at a time) and give them a Belgian passport so that they can re-unite with their Marokkan or Turkish family in Belgium (NOT in Marokko or in Turkey) and that their family also can obtain the Belgian Nationality after 9 months... After that they all vote for the socialist or Christian Democrat party as compensation for their Belgian passport...

So really we ARE civilized....

lies are so bad ,you can lie in europe not in here . It's is not easy as you are telling , anyway thailand is right to kick usless people from it's land .

[robblok]

The problem is that you cant just start a business in Thailand and get a work permit you need to employ 5 Thais.

Nonsense! To have a Thai Limited Partnership you just need one Thai person.

I had a thai limited

to get a workpermit for me to work in my own company i needed to employ 5 thais

[marsteele]

Another nail in the coff.........

This one will come soon too

And don't forget the perennial, "They hate us farangs, they really, really hate us...".

Maybe they're regretting giving the tourist visas for free now?

umm yes I am confused they give free in one hand and clamp down in the other hand. What is really true and real in Thailand? They try to encourage tourists but block them at the same time.

[SM7WGP]

The point is get a real visa before you come Thailand if you like to stay longer then 60 days.

I said it before and I say it again, who in his right mind would like to work in this country and for a sallary around 10 K Baht a month that some do.

If you dont have the money to stay, go home again and work and come back when you have it !

[Garret]

Cockney is spot on.....Show where your money is coming from....Have the right visa and funds and you should be able to stay.......Work here under the law....shoot over on the Jack Golf Bus....and be open to even more corruption and Thai tranparencey...........The system is flawed no doubt....But on a whole the 'Good' That labor,immigration and tax violators due for the ecoomy minimal.

What a lot of people think is that they have a right to stay here even if they can't meet the demands of the Law. This can't be allowed.

Stay home if you are coming here to break the law. If you have come here has a tourist and want to stay then meet the requirments.

And Yes. you should be able to come here and apply for a job, no doubt . But then you will need to leave and return to your home country to get the proper Visa in order to return....

Loong.....They are everywhere....I had to go over the border a year ago with a budd of mine that was activating his next 60 day visa i went along for the ride and hung out all day with these people..used Jacks Golf and they made up the most of the people crossing the border.

[moskito]

I think thats a great idea and hope they really go for it. I know some guys which are work here on a tourist visa and there will be many more working here as cheap so called diving instructors in high season......KICK THEM OUT....I dont wanna have foreigners in europe working on tourist visas, why they should work here?

But TiT.....for sure they forgot the 30day hoppings at airports if up to me, three times 30days on airport without staying away for at least 30days in another country and I dont let them in again without a proper Visa

[Robbie Dye]

Well people can still fly in and out every 30 days to use 30 day stamps.

Would we like to bet how long for ??!!

[JIP]

Philippines: Pretty much unlimited trips to the local Bureau of Immigration for 2-month visa extensions are allowed, 2000 baht, 40 minutes to an hour for total time spent, never a hassle. (Thailand: 20,000 baht, and 2-3 days' time required, hassles, and uncertainty.)

In addition, where I'm at, my wife just takes the paperwork and my passport with her to the Bureau of Immigration while she's out shopping, and does it all in my stead... I don't have to even leave the house to renew/extend.

Maybe I'll see some of you here soon.

Jungle Jil

[mysticpaki]

It is easy follow the law and you have no problems.Try to get a visa for europe as Thai people and you will see were it is the most difficult.

If you work get a workpermit like in every decent country in the world and you get a 1 year renewable visa.If you are retired put 800.000 baht in a thai account and you get also the same visa.The people who complain are those who are doing monkey business and think that as foreigner all is allowed.Dont forget we are guest here no local people.

I totally agree with ERICPHUKET. The amount of humiliation arrogance and attituse which the visa issuing officers use of European, Usa,is unbeleivable. You really have to be there to see how the third world country citizens are treated and spoken to. Sometines the tourist visa is rejected without any realistic reason.They act like God.

One question what visa can you get by showing 200 thousand baht???

How does one qualify for the non immigrant O visa?? Is it valid for 1 year or 3 years?

I donot want to work in Thailand so whats my best option? My age is 48

Would appreciate any advise on this

Thanks All.

[pattaya_girl]

Well this does not affect me, as I go back to the UK to renew my Non Immigrant class O Multiple Entry Visa every Year.

However next time its due for renewal, I am going for an Education Visa for a Year, it will cost about the same as going back home, but I will also be learning to speak, read and write Thai as well, so I will actually be getting something back for my money.

Feel sorry for the Back to Backers though, just go back to your home Country and get the propper Visa required, its simple.......

I use to have the Tourist Visa's a few years back, but got sick and tired of doing Visa Runs and back and forth to Immigration ect...

It really is worth getting the correct Visa if you want to stay here a long time, and its also good to get a nice worry free nights sleep.

[Garret]

My little brother decided to early retire here two years ago. He came here on a tourist visa , not a visa on arrival. Hired a lawyer to help him with an early retirment visa......He was able to prove that he did indeed have the required 100,000$......he uses HSBC and they furnished him with a letter....He got his retirment visa in less than an hour......he is 36 years old so did not meet the 800,000b requirment when you hit 50.......They could have asked the money to be in Thai baht but they did not......

Guys come here and want to stay...pretty much for one reason.........I said pretty much, not all cases.

[sunnymarky]

Well not sure if this will work or not will be interesting but I agree with the objective . The backpacking dimwits who come to Thailand and think . "Oh I can be a teacher here easily" is widespread. I have met them , airheads and wasters, but the real fools are the establisments who employ them.

[rexall]

There is NOTHING written in stone or "grandfathered in" about the various Non-Imm visa policies or the amount of funds required for marriage, biz or retirement. To the "I've got mine, Jack!" voices; try not to be so smug. There is no telling when someone will get a wild hair up his arse and come after you! Every expat ought to be concerned about the creeping restrictions.

[ersl]

It is easy follow the law and you have no problems.Try to get a visa for europe as Thai people and you will see were it is the most difficult.

If you work get a workpermit like in every decent country in the world and you get a 1 year renewable visa.If you are retired put 800.000 baht in a thai account and you get also the same visa.The people who complain are those who are doing monkey business and think that as foreigner all is allowed.Dont forget we are guest here no local people.

OK. The situation is grim for teachers and the majority of schools. Most private language schools will not provide "Work Visas" as it means that they will have to show their earnings in order to be able to sponsor teachers. Moe than 50% of schools will lose teachers.

Teachers want to work here legally but the schools will not do the accreditation steps. The schools that have the best pay, or reasonable pay, and conditions fall into this area.

Given the effect this move will have it won't last long and it will be back to business as normal. Visa Runs are forced on so called "illegals" by the Thais themselves, not by the "illegals". All this latest move is going to do is send shivers and panic into the schools industry, especially the teachers, but if they cannot get the Back to Back Tourist Visas then the students will drop out of the private school system, schools will lose their income and shut down.

In Western countries the process is much easier. You just apply for a Temporary Work Visa that lasts for three months or six, and if you find a job then your employer will apply to Immigration. The company or school need not be accredited to sponsor. This is where the stupidity of Asia is most evident. But this avenue is only for people 35 and under, down to 18. Older people are up against it but can get in on Tourist Visas and transfer to Temp Residence without much difficulty. Business Visas are easy to get which is why so many Asians emigrate.

What this latest move will do is push thousands of teachers into neighbouring contries' job markets.

As there are thousands upon thousands of teachers in Thailand on Tourist Visas a forced mass exodus will have a major negative impact on the Thai economy. Teachers recycle Thai money which economically creates productivity and fiscal growth. That's why illegals are in any country. Smart countries convert "ïllegals" into legals to bolster their domestic economies, to turn the money over, to pay the taxes that wealthier residents avoid though systems created by the system.

This latest move is just a rerun of such moves in Thailand over the last 20 or so years. It will go down very fast and last a mere breath of existence. But, we teachers live in hope that they will come to their senses and force the schools to come clean with their earnings and give us all a "Work Permit" which we all qualify for in any case. Unqualified teachers who work in government schools just do a short course to qualify and then they can get a "work visa". But even government schools play the "screw the teachers game" too. Government schools may employ teachers for up to 2 years on Tourist Visas, and they will make the necessary arrangements for the Visas too, and reimburse the teachers as well.

Therefore this move is aimed not at "illegals" but at Thais not paying their taxes, billions upon billions of Baht. But rather than Thais confronting the Thais because it is cultural suicide, they are doing it by proxy.

Casualties will be minimal. Then back to the way it always was.

[crusty]

Personally I fail to see the problem. If someone is a genuine tourist they ahve nothing to fear. On the other hand if they are working on tourist visas tnen they only have themselves to blame.

Try pulling the same stunt in the EU, the US or Australia. Anyone caught doing that would be tossed out immediately and possibly be banned from the country for ever. It seems to me that despite all the crackdowns Thailand is still very generous at this stage and lots of people are abusing the system.

Incidentally an Australian I work with recently went to Canada on a tourist visa and she was interrogated for three whole hours. She thinks it may because she was born in Armenia. Who knows but it seems Thailand won't be the only country to interrogate some tourists.

exactly...

This is one of the ways to curb the time share touts and I hope it works. These pests are top of the list of visitors grievances

[ericB]

What's illegal about seeking employment? I thought only working with a tourist visa is illegal?

And I also thought that also a tourist 60 day visa can be applied for 3 times within a year only. No?

That means that you can never travel to Thailand to seek work unless you have been invited to do so, and have a letter that approves your non-B.

So a job in Thailand can only be found online or by connections with people that live in Thailand. Is that what it means ?

Then people have to provide you a non-b letter before your interview. And that is impossible! In some immigration offices they don't just ask you a letter, but all the information of the company. How will you ever get this when they haven't even hired you??

Yes I am aware of the huge amount of illegal workers in Thailand, people that will never get a pension, or maybe even drink so much that they cannot practically be alive at the time they cannot work anymore (and normally would receive a pension). What are they all doing here then....

All I can say is that Freedom does not exists in the world, and Thailand is a great country to learn this.

Thai Nationalism will make sure that you will always be and feel like an outsider, Thailand should favor you being here and the other way round, who cares!

What you favor about thailand is probably not the thing that Thailand is proud off, so everyone who will contribute to Thailand's bad reputation should go in the first place. Or you could do that job that illegal workers normally do, like the Burmese. Thai just want to make clear that Foreigners don't own this country, even if some think they do. Everything seems so easy, as if they can play gods. While this behavior is not possible anywhere in the world, why would anyone expect it from Thailand. Maybe they're not so fast, but they learn by mistake, that's all.

Please do not place all 'Farangs' in the same basket... Not everyone thinks that Thailand should favour us for being here. I love Thailand and the people, and appreciate being able to live and work (legally) in such a beautiful country, with such a wonderful culture and hsitory, and I have many friend who also think and feel this way. One thing that is the same for all countires all over the world... we all need tourists... they are what provides money for the country, I do agree that there should be laws around working illegally anywhere, not just in Thailand.

<removed-see below>

On the topic, well Thai people run Thailand, they selected a Government. The Government just took action, those of us who live here have simply to apply and accept the law or move somewhere else. Fact is alot of us have simply used legal loopholes to do their 'business' here , thinking it will be like that forever. I do not think it is wise to comment on law, we are foreigners (I never ever considered myself as a guest but an expatriate worker) by so or we comply or we leave (At least it's how things were last time I was in my country for the legal foreigners living there).

Edited September 11, 2009 by cdnvic
removed off-topic Royalty reference

[rrose070]

It's not always nefarious. I have to do the b2b because my husband (we're both from America, sorry) is on retirement visa but I don't qualify, since I'm not yet 50 (or even 40). I hope they don't crack down on me!

[barry]

its amazing that the real problem is never faced head on: TOURISTS

ban all tourism and the visa problem will vanish

i'm also very disheartened watching all these illegal foreigners from the U.S., UK, Australia

mowing peoples lawns, cleaning their houses, and cleaning up the street garbage...give these jobs back to thai citizens

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

Now we can expect the next crackdown to be on back-to-back Non-Immigrant visas... and after that a crackdown on back-to-back visa extensions. To all of those who say "just play by the rules", what makes it so difficult is that the rules are being changed all the time! Things that were perfectly legal a year ago are now illegal.

They REALLY don't want foreigners here and are finding more and more ways to make staying long-term impossible. Non-married under-50's who don't need or want to work now have no chance anymore.

Best regards

Thanh

[CockneyGit]

The problem is that you cant just start a business in Thailand and get a work permit you need to employ 5 Thais.

Nonsense! To have a Thai Limited Partnership you just need one Thai person.

I had a thai limited

to get a workpermit for me to work in my own company i needed to employ 5 thais

You've been given some dodgy advice somewhere my friend. I've had a Thai Ltd.Part. for a number of years and work permit has never been a problem. Several of my partners/associates have done exactly the same in all parts of the country so i'd check again with your local Labour Office.

[SomchaiCNX]

This will be a problem for farang with internet business. The problem is that you cant just start a business in Thailand and get a work permit you need to employ 5 Thais. If they would get rid of that stupid rule a lot of people with internet businesses would pay tax and get a work permit. Many internet business are just not big enough to employ 5 Thais its completely crazy. They are not stealing jobs from Thai they are creating new jobs and spending money in the economy.

I fortunately am married so i dont have a problem, but they should really make it easier for internet businesses.

I would say get more strict with internet businesses.

There are a lot of fakes out there on the WWW.

Found some guys using fake company names, wrong licenses, wrong phone numbers, wrong addresses, stolen copyright text and stolen copyright pictures from others etc etc etc.

I think you can agree with that Rob.

If you are married you do not need to employ 5 people.

You need at least a 2.000.000 baht investment or sometimes even not, depending on the set-up. (ask around)

If you need people, you can employ your sister in law, your brother in law your maid, your driver etc etc on paper.

If they make less than 5000 or 6000 (on paper) they don't pay tax and your contribution to the social welfare is less than 400 baht a month a person before it was 200 for you employer and 200 for the employe.

If your company makes less than 1.800.000 your do not need the 7 % VAT etc etc. (this to keep things simple)

Sometimes withholding tax (3 %) will apply. etc etc.

But.... be warned even with a work permit and all de legal papers you are doing at least 20 things a day that are not legal according to your legal papers anyway. (if you have to leave your office for example or have to drive the company car, or visit your customers, buy your goods, teach your staff English, train your staff outside the office, go to a meeting at a hotel etc. etc.)

There are some businesses that only can employ Farang illegally as they are not allowed to do it legally because the law does not allow it.

Do a little home work and it will help a lot, even accountants and lawyers don't know or don't want to tell you.

[moskito]

THANKS FOR THAT POST Garret, I AGREE 100% .....and I bet so do the most of the "normal" Expats.

These cheating loosers give us all a bad name here in LOS.

I like specially these from head to toe tatooed bodybuilding idiots which wear shorts and armless t-shirts and no shoes at all in Lotus or immigration offices.....do they walk around in their homecountrys like this too in the meantime?

[robblok]

The problem is that you cant just start a business in Thailand and get a work permit you need to employ 5 Thais.

Nonsense! To have a Thai Limited Partnership you just need one Thai person.

I had a thai limited

to get a workpermit for me to work in my own company i needed to employ 5 thais

You've been given some dodgy advice somewhere my friend. I've had a Thai Ltd.Part. for a number of years and work permit has never been a problem. Several of my partners/associates have done exactly the same in all parts of the country so i'd check again with your local Labour Office.

I doubt it had 2 lawyers on it, i would have kept the LTD if i could have worked in it. I closed it because i could not, went to the labour department they also said have to have 5 Thais. For me that was impossible because the work that needed to be done was in Dutch.. Thais don't speak Dutch.

[gosompoi]

I came here as a tourist, jumping from one country to another via Thailand using Thailand as a hub. Then I came back as a volunteer and again as a teacher. I am now married to Thai with Thai children. The rules change for tourist visa do not affect me. I think the change maybe a good thing because there are many legal ways to stay without using a tourist visa. I do not think the new rules will affect any true tourists.

[oldgeezer]

What's illegal about seeking employment? I thought only working with a tourist visa is illegal?

And I also thought that also a tourist 60 day visa can be applied for 3 times within a year only. No?

That means that you can never travel to Thailand to seek work unless you have been invited to do so, and have a letter that approves your non-B.

So a job in Thailand can only be found online or by connections with people that live in Thailand. Is that what it means ?

Then people have to provide you a non-b letter before your interview. And that is impossible! In some immigration offices they don't just ask you a letter, but all the information of the company. How will you ever get this when they haven't even hired you??

Yes I am aware of the huge amount of illegal workers in Thailand, people that will never get a pension, or maybe even drink so much that they cannot practically be alive at the time they cannot work anymore (and normally would receive a pension). What are they all doing here then....

All I can say is that Freedom does not exists in the world, and Thailand is a great country to learn this.

Thai Nationalism will make sure that you will always be and feel like an outsider, Thailand should favor you being here and the other way round, who cares!

What you favor about thailand is probably not the thing that Thailand is proud off, so everyone who will contribute to Thailand's bad reputation should go in the first place. Or you could do that job that illegal workers normally do, like the Burmese. Thai just want to make clear that Foreigners don't own this country, even if some think they do. Everything seems so easy, as if they can play gods. While this behavior is not possible anywhere in the world, why would anyone expect it from Thailand. Maybe they're not so fast, but they learn by mistake, that's all.

This needs to be said much more often. There are many legal ways to get a visa and stay on one year extensions. "Tourists" would have to be millionaires to stay on consecutive 90 day visas. Not many millionaires in LOS. And it doesn't take years to "tour" Thailand. The farangs complaining the most are those "flying under the radar" so to speak.

If someone can give me an example that shows me wrong......................

Edited September 11, 2009 by oldgeezer

[moskito]

One question what visa can you get by showing 200 thousand baht???

How does one qualify for the non immigrant O visa?? Is it valid for 1 year or 3 years?

I donot want to work in Thailand so whats my best option? My age is 48

Would appreciate any advise on this

Thanks All.

with 200.000.- Baht at least about 8years in Thailand, if you pay the money under the table to some LAW firms or so called VISA and Accounting offices (sad but still true)

officially NOTHING at all, but there is GOOGLE and I bet you will find a lot of Tips about Visas and Thailand if you try to google Non Immigrant Visa Thailand and requirements

[sorensen]

Are there a lot of jobs that are being taken by illegal frangs, that Thai nationals would get if they were not here? I am not sure what the problem is. Or is this like the USA .. . keep the Mexicans out because they are stealing our jobs... jobs we wouldn't do even if they were available.

It would be more like the Mexicans trying to keep the Yankees out of Mexico for stealing their jobs at the Tequila farm.....

[koheesti]

Foreigners are the ones bringing in all the money! So why are they trying to kick and drive all the foreigners away??

How true. Thousands of bar girls should take to the street and protest. Issan should fight for independence as the central gov't seems to be trying to strangle the region's main source of income.

On a more serious note, is it considered back-to-back if 1 month is spent somewhere else before returning to Thailand? In other words, 180 days in Thailand on a double entry tourist visa. Then one month in another country in Europe or wherever. Then apply for another double entry tourist visa. Any ideas if they would have a problem with that?

[rjk]

If you come to Australia on a tourist visa and the Immigration department or Customs get the slightest impression you may seek work then you would not even get out of the airport before being returned back to where you came from.

Thailand has every right to enforce it's immigration laws. Nothing to complain about here.