Major Retailers Start Charging For Plastic Bags

[JetsetBkk]

IMHO it would make much more sense to replace plastic bottles and tins (cans).

Back in Belgium, we always bought mineral water and beer in returnable glass bottles and milk in returnable hard plastic bottles (which replaced the once thick glass bottles).

It is not only better for the environment, but also for health and taste.

Provided they are cleaned, sterilised, rinsed and dried correctly.

I think I prefer brand new plastic containers.

[givenall]

1 to 2 bth. Tis alone will increase the profit margin of these stores. In may case i just tell them put the stuff in my cart without the bag. that should make the happy

[samuijimmy]

I get the same response from any 7-11 here on Samui, & many other shops when I say "Mai Plastic".

Quote... "On the contrary I have noticed that in many 7-11s they don't bother giving me straws anymore and if I buy only a small bottle of water for example they don't bother giving me a bag anymore. In some 7-11s they start saying 'thank you!' "

It is not a big deal to say it before they starting ringing up stuff on the cash register.... when you have a few items that can be carried by hand.

I certainly don't find the staff at 7-11 as stupid as some people seem to think they are.... perhaps it the attitude of those on the other side of the counter... !

Same which ever 7-11 I go into....( in any part of Thailand I have traveled) , or at other stores for that matter... just say NO! / Mai plastic! Often they will say "Thank you for saving the Environment" ....

Sure hope they move the idea to the rest of the country.

It is not just Thai's who litter either.... "farangs" can be just as guilty... let's stop Thai bashing & show some respect

Edited November 16, 2009 by samuijimmy

[brahmburgers]

Next, maybe one in 4 billion Asians can figure a way to make a biodegradable substitute for styrofoam. Styrofoam is used much too often for 'take-away'. Banana leaves work well. I will offer $5,000 for anyone who can invent a Styrofoam substitute that's bio-degradable.

I was just about to mention styrofoam when I stumbled upon your post. Stryofoam food boxes are everywhere. Much more insidious than plastic bags I think. The styrofoam "kratongs" are pretty disgusting too .. go back to the traditional ones, I say.

However. There's someone in Japan waiting for your $5000 because they have already done it .. years ago. They make take away food containers out of rice. It looks like styrofoam .. but it's edible. A lot of Japanese really don't like to eat them .. but they can crumble them in their hand and throw it on the ground. The birds eat the stuff if they are quick enough before it rains.

I suspected, but couldn't nail the thought down. Good on whomever invented that. There are probably a bunch of plants that could be processed to degradable containers. Cornstarch? hemp hulls?

In Oz we have "Clean up Australia Day" every year. Whole communities get out there with their rubber gloves and garbage bags cleaning up all the trash. Even the police and fire brigades get into it .. dredging rivers, creeks and lakes of all sorts of crap. Dumped cars, refrigerators, murdered backpackers etc etc. What are the chances of the BIB here volunteering themselves for that kind of thing here ... for free? ... bugger all I think.

I like that concept. An American started a trend in NW US (Washington State) when he decided to clean up a lake. He got his friends to go to a popular, yet polluted lake near Seattle, and he personally donned a scuba gear and went there and pulled out hundreds of beer cans and crap. Passers by saw the strange sight, and stopped to assist. It's become an annual event, and now the lake is near as clean as before the white man came to them there parts.

BTW, if plastic bags made from fossil fuels decompose, what is the remaining residue?

Also, when possible, I put new purchases in one larger bag, and try to avoid a bunch of smaller bags. I later use the larger bag for my household garbage, so it's recycled to some degree.

As for recycling in Thailand, it's actually quite dynamic. The two pick up places at my small village are gone through by locals, and then again by the garbage truck guys as they're loading the mess on their trucks. I don't know about other areas, but in Chiang Rai, there are several large recycling centers, and they're well organized. One has a pneumatically powered crusher specifically for plastic. Most of the workers are Burmese working for under minimum wage, about 120 baht per 10 hour day.

If I see recyclers with push carts on the street (often with scruffy kids hanging on), I clandestinely slip them forty baht or so. They're at the bottom rungs of the social ladder, but at least they're doing something industrious, rather than begging.

If they could vote, Thaksin would promise them riches beyond imagining, to help him get back control over Thailand and get his hands on that 2.2 billion dollars he thinks he deserves.

[zzaa09]

Just wanted to complain about 7/11 wasting plastic too, but about 10 people already said the same thing.

They usually get those straws in my bag before I think to stop them, so I just put in on the counter. I know it get's thrown away, but at least they might start to ask (foreigners at least) if we want a straw for our half gallon of milk and liter of coke.

Never going to happen... 7-11 staff is in full auto pilot mode, only if they know you (and you have previously made them look stupid for giving you straws and plastic bags for everything) they might remember not to do so...

There should be a petition to tell 7-11 to stop telling their staff to give out plastic bags for advertising purpose, anything else is a drop in the ocean.

Better yet, practice your protest. Don't shop at 7.....ever.

[tmark]

 

BTW, if plastic bags made from fossil fuels decompose, what is the remaining residue?

I want to know that too .. so I Googled it ...

According to the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM), an international body that has established standards for compostable and degradable plastics, compostable plastics are "capable of undergoing biological decomposition in a compost site..., such that the plastic is not visually distinguishable and breaks down to carbon dioxide, water, inorganic compounds, and biomass..., [leaving] no toxic residue."

Compostable bags do not undergo this ideal transformation when placed in a landfill, however. This is because modern-day landfills are largely void of oxygen. When compostable items, including grass clippings, leaves, fruit and vegetables, coffee grinds, newspapers, etc. enter a landfill, methane gas is created. This is problematic because methane - a greenhouse gas - is 20 times more effective at trapping heat than carbon dioxide.

So it looks like it depends where you put them.... and if its in landfill .. you create more problems.

Where's that string bag????

[imaderbyfan]

This is great idea, but as with every idea there is also a downside.

I made a visit to my local Tesco, and took a user friendly canvas bag, at the checkout I took it out, and was preparing to put in my purchases, to be told

"sorry you cannot use that for security reasons"

Basically when the staff standing at the exits see everything packed into Tesco bags they accept that everything is purchased, if the see some other non see through bag then they become suspiscious.

An Email, however, to Tesco Thailand, explaining what had happened in my store, was responded to with a phone call from a Tesco employeewithin an hour who apologised profusely and told me steps would be taken to rectify the situation.

He was true to his word.

My re useable bags are accepted readily now.

[JetsetBkk]

This is great idea, but as with every idea there is also a downside.

I made a visit to my local Tesco, and took a user friendly canvas bag, at the checkout I took it out, and was preparing to put in my purchases, to be told

"sorry you cannot use that for security reasons"<snip>

Ditto Makro - I used to take a large cool box to put the cold stuff in. Worked OK for a few months - I just took the lid off when I went in to show it was empty. Then they said I couldn't "for security reasons".

[ozsamurai]

I applaud the move by the big supermarkets, however, I think they it should be mandated that they re-invest that money revenue raised for what was once a free item, to a) reduce prices or preferably clean up their crap that is now polluting the environment. This is for sure the focus and direction this should take. I am tired of walking past inner city sewer pits.

Oz

[cognos]

geez..if they had started this just last year... the price of world oil would be at an all time low, the LOS GNP would be soaring thru the roof, and the area around BKK train station ( and Nai Yaan beach in Phuket..etc. etc...would not be awash with 10 trillion "lost" plastic bags. Signed.. (from the grave in the eons of the past).."better late than never" ( LIVY , 500 B.C.)

[Captain Jack]

The artical lists Makro amongst the stores partaking in this revolutionary scheme. Someone aught to get there facts straight. Makro is a cash and carry, and like all cash and carry's it always has charged for plastic bags, in all its stores. Of course this isn't out of any sense of environmental responsibility but rather simple economics. The premise is simple, if you sell the bags you make money from them and can afford to keep other costs down. This results in lower costs to the cunsumer at the end of the day.

Now this begs the question why other major retailers haven't taken this supposedly bold step long ago, aspecially when you consider the positive spin of the perceived environmental awareness. In my native England the major retailers have all been doing this for many years now.

Also, conspicuous in its absence from the list is Carrefeur. I'm sure that in it's native France the retail giant has long ago begun charging for plastic bags and pretending it's because of the environment. So why not here? The answer is simple, this is Thailand. Thai people lack the required sense of responsibility ah, oh, how to say, they just don't care.

[Jimjim]

Good idea.

[brahmburgers]

The fuss about plastic bags is a start.

However, it's like a hospital treating a little pimple on the face of a patient with multiple organ failures and fractures.

It's called 'greenwash' ....a rather good new word that describes publicity campaign (usually for a corp, but could also be for a government), which shows an environmental concern, but is really just dealing with a modicum of the problem as a whole.

Makro, for example, publicizes that it doesn't use plastic bags at the check-out counter (though it does, they're thick red plastic and for sale). However, Makro uses lots of plastic bags in their fresh foods dept, and uses added styrofoam there and in other sections as well. However, and this is the clincher, Makro and all other super stores, have their shelves packed with limitless amounts of heavily packaged items.

It's not directly Makro's fault, as they simply stock what's available by suppliers. However, if Markro (and the others who appear to be 'green') wanted to do something worthwhile, they would emphatically tell their suppliers/manufacturers to lighten up on the packaging. The amount of packaging garbage that stores generate indirectly is phenomenal! It averages out to about one compacted garbage pail for each person in Thailand per month. Most is thick plastic that takes eons to decompose. Indeed, a chart of various types of garbage in Discover magazine (respected science mag) listed some types of commonly used plastic taking 500 to 1,000 years to decompose, and other common plastics (liter soda bottles and such) as taking 'forever.'

The concern for the flimsy plastic bags is greenwash. It's a little bit significant, but cosmetic at best. I guess we should figuratively pat the Phuket authorities on the back for doing something good, and hope they take on more dire polluting substances/corporations bye and bye.

How about a tax on superfluous and environmentally unsound packaging?!?!

[spidermike007]

I have been using cloth bags, and bags made of recycled materials for some time now. Most Thai people comment

on them, when they see them. They are all shocked when I say no plastic please, and see the bags and say what

a good idea. I explain I am trying to save Thailand one bag at a time. It is long overdue. Somehow, the

extraordinarily deficient Thai educational system, is not teaching the youth any sense of awareness of the

environment. They just do not know, or think about these things. They do not consider where waste goes,

what happens to the plastic bags, etc. Even the concept of keeping the bags to re-use is foreign to them. It is

time the nation wakes up, or else it may be too late when they do. Hopefully this policy will help. I would love

for shops in Bangkok or Koh Samui to implement this too.

[hhiser]

It will only be a drop in the bucket, besides 7-11. There are also all the fresh markets around town that are far worse offenders than 7-11. But never the less it is a step in the right direction. Let's see if the this sparks the Thai government to enforce its environmental regulations! 

[asiawatcher]

The consensus shows all Thai Visa readers and contributors are behind this - why not Bangkok? The Khlongs are getting full of plastic and even the beaches are getting flotsam float up along our coastline with all types of plastic (along with lots of other goodies). At least all here are concerned - - and - make it 5 baht not 1.

[Geekfreaklover]

geez..if they had started this just last year... the price of world oil would be at an all time low, the LOS GNP would be soaring thru the roof, and the area around BKK train station ( and Nai Yaan beach in Phuket..etc. etc...would not be awash with 10 trillion "lost" plastic bags. Signed.. (from the grave in the eons of the past).."better late than never" ( LIVY , 500 B.C.)

Plastic bags are made from the waste petro-chemicals produced by refining oil at upstream refineries, so it makes sense to make a profit from the petro-chemicals. Thats why this is an issue. We have to limit the amount of oil we use. Nuclear power is an answer, but ignorance hinders the contingency. If we limit the amount of oil we use then we also limit the abundance of petro-chemical products that are handed out left right and center. The answer and the soloution to the problem is to embrace and invest in renewable energy.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[PaulOkay]

There is no need to use paper bags instead of plastic bags. Use of too much paper is an environmental problem just as well.

But producers of plastic bags also produce biodegradable and photodegradable bags. Problems with these bags is the price, but producers now start to offer them for the same price as normal plastic bags. So without a mentality change and without retailers needing to buy new plates for the printing of the bags, there is a major benefit for the environment possible.

Tesco, Big C, Carrefour, Makro, 7/11 and all the others, what are you waiting for???????

[tmark]

There is no need to use paper bags instead of plastic bags. Use of too much paper is an environmental problem just as well.

But producers of plastic bags also produce biodegradable and photodegradable bags. Problems with these bags is the price, but producers now start to offer them for the same price as normal plastic bags. So without a mentality change and without retailers needing to buy new plates for the printing of the bags, there is a major benefit for the environment possible.

Tesco, Big C, Carrefour, Makro, 7/11 and all the others, what are you waiting for???????

"major benefit for the environment possible" .... It seems quite the opposite is true.

You should read my previous post (on this page) about what happens to  biodegradable and photo-degradable bags when they end up in landfill. Methane gas (another "greenhouse gas") is produced which is more heat retaining than CO2 .. thus worsening global warming. Same thing with paper bags in landfill also. Reusable cloth or string bags are one of the best solutions.

Edited November 17, 2009 by tmark

[unsuredebra]

I just see it as more profit for the supermarkets. I also use the bags to put our rubbish in, many Thais do the same, that way bins are not left with food stuck to them and smelling, well thats how it is where we live, as the village has Wheelie bins. So, we could end up with really smelley bins esp if the Thais dont want to pay for bags...If I go and buy cloth bags, that means I will now have to go and buy bin liners which are plastic which end up in the same place as my bin bags on some rubbish dump. People may re use the bags for shopping for a short time rather than pay for new bags, but then that means go and buy the bin liners for your rubbish so supermarkets are getting people to spend on liners whereas once they did not as they used the plastic bags.

I dont think having to pay for the bags will stop bags being dumped on the beaches or ending up in the sea, people are people and will just carry on as before.

If I have to pay for plastic bags, I would like to see stronger bags that can be reused, similar to the bags that we get in UK or use to get as I have not been home for over year, in Sainsbury they were good strong plastic bags which are easy to pack and strong, the cloth bags that were being sold over there were too small. Also in Sainsbury they had largish plastic box's they are good but take up a lot of room, but so easy if you can just put all your shopping back in the trolly then once at your car, put your shopping in the box's

I dread to think how the staff in Tescos will be, when you will be having to say, no, put more in the bag as yes they do tend to put few items in the bags.

If the powers at B were really concerned about the plastic bags and what they are doing to the enviroment and dont forget the power it takes to make them, they would be banned and we would have something else to use, something that is long lasting and does not mess up the enviroment, which once finished and has recycle material, just another con to get more money.

[glegolo]

This sounds like a great idea....and it should work......but it's not new by any means. Charging for plastic bags had been done for years in western countries. All the supermarkets in my home town in Canada started doing it and what actually happened was that most people just paid for the bags instead of getting them free....so the result was that the supermarkets got a new and very profitable product line. A few stalwarts use cloth bags for sure....but often forget to bring them when they go shopping...so after all the initial promotion dies down....its plastic as usual. If the Phuket stores charge 2 baht a bag....and a bag actually costs them 0.3 baht....they will have a bigger margin on the bags than on most of the other merchandise they sell.. The only way you will ever stop Thailand from being littered with plastic bags is to ban then altogether.....and what a shock that would be to the poor 7-11 staff..... [/b]

The other one of course is plastic bottles......wrapped in plastic....which is then put in plastic bags........double plastic bags... ..... plastic plastic everywhere....

and now we have to pay....

I do hope I'm wrong because I hate the bloody things............but that is what happened back home..........

------------------------------------------------

Yes you´re probably right. What must happen tgogether with this charging of plastic bags, is the recycling program. There MUST be an option for people, so they prefer to pick it up and recycle it, instead of just drop it where they stands. Which almost 100% of the 65 miljon people do here in Thailand.

Pay for the plastic, there is always people arround here in Thailand, that can make a few baht every day and survive by picking up plastic.

Good luck

Glegolo

[Toltec]

People think first !!!

Bad stupid idea. The plastic bags are free. They are mostly used as garbage bags. Now you have to buy these. It won't cut down the plastic since you have to dispose trash with something.

This another case where "BANDWAGON" mentality wins. You nedd plastic bags to dispose of trash period.

Bringing bags is stupid and cheap looking. Plus it's dirty. Paper bags ? Why in the first place did we get rid of them. THINK!

The wet fetish for paper wont cut here in the tropics. Once you get the cold stuff from the grocery inside the paper bag then it makes a nice hole and its useless. Just think of the ice cold cans of beer you just dropped on the floor because of these stupid paper bags. Same with the cloth bags. They get mesy and will stink in this tropical climate. Plus its will attract roaches and rats.

I say its a bad bad idea....

[tmark]

 Same with the cloth bags. They get mesy and will stink in this tropical climate. Plus its will attract roaches and rats.

I say its a bad bad idea....

Psssst .. little tip .... "Wash" the bags. Do you have the same problem with your underwear?

[Toltec]

"Wash" the bags. Do you have the same problem with your underwear?

HAHAHA. I guess you double up on your skid-marked undies to "bag' your veggies .LOL.

Its still a stupid idea. There are already biodegradable plastic bags. The big stores as mentioned above will make another buck on you little poor greenie. Also as mentioned above the packaging of the stuff in the stores is humongous compared to the little teenie weenny plastic bags. This is so pathetic and wimpy....ARGHHHH.....

[tmark]

HAHAHA. I guess you double up on your skid-marked undies to "bag' your veggies .LOL.

Its still a stupid idea. There are already biodegradable plastic bags. The big stores as mentioned above will make another buck on you little poor greenie. 

If you spent less time shouting and a little more time reading .. you would have seen this .. on this very page.

According to the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM), an international body that has established standards for compostable and degradable plastics, compostable plastics are "capable of undergoing biological decomposition in a compost site..., such that the plastic is not visually distinguishable and breaks down to carbon dioxide, water, inorganic compounds, and biomass..., [leaving] no toxic residue."

Compostable bags do not undergo this ideal transformation when placed in a landfill, however. This is because modern-day landfills are largely void of oxygen. When compostable items, including grass clippings, leaves, fruit and vegetables, coffee grinds, newspapers, etc. enter a landfill, methane gas is created. This is problematic because methane - a greenhouse gas - is 20 times more effective at trapping heat than carbon dioxide.

.. I've highlighted the pertinant parts for you .. aren't I nice guy?

[Toltec]

Wimps . Willing Imbeciles Manage Plastic Scourge.

Arghhhhh...Nuff said (Bernard Trink)...Arghhhhhh....(Charlie Brown)......

[diehard60]

Just wanted to complain about 7/11 wasting plastic too, but about 10 people already said the same thing.

They usually get those straws in my bag before I think to stop them, so I just put in on the counter. I know it get's thrown away, but at least they might start to ask (foreigners at least) if we want a straw for our half gallon of milk and liter of coke.

Gee maybe they should start a crack down on this too. Just a thought.

[tmark]

Wimps . Willing Imbeciles Manage Plastic Scourge.

Arghhhhh...Nuff said (Bernard Trink)...Arghhhhhh....(Charlie Brown)......

Your a little behind .. It's the middle of November now.

September 19th (every year) is International Talk Like A Pirate Day

 http://www.talklikeapirate.com/

Seems you have trouble reading a calendar too... maybe if you refrained from wearing plastic bags on your head it may help.

[tmark]

Just wanted to complain about 7/11 wasting plastic too, but about 10 people already said the same thing.

They usually get those straws in my bag before I think to stop them, so I just put in on the counter. I know it get's thrown away, but at least they might start to ask (foreigners at least) if we want a straw for our half gallon of milk and liter of coke.

Gee maybe they should start a crack down on this too. Just a thought.

I'm sure the wheels are grinding into gear at the M.O.C (Ministry of Crackdowns)

[JetsetBkk]

The artical lists Makro amongst the stores partaking in this revolutionary scheme. Someone aught to get there facts straight. Makro is a cash and carry, and like all cash and carry's it always has charged for plastic bags, in all its stores. <snip>

I totally agree.

Someone really ought (not 'aught') to get their (not 'there') facts straight.

I have never seen, nor been offered, any plastic bags at the checkouts at Makro, Phuket.