Tuk-tuk Stand Off In Karon

[markg]

This was posted earlier but was removed by mods as it contained links and direct quotes to a site which is against TV rules.

I think the story needs exposure and have tried to paraphrase it so as to not fall foul of the rules.

An online news source is reported that there was a stand-off between the Centara resorts and the Karon tuk-tuks.

The gist of the story is that guests who book tours with Siam Safari based in Chalong, are then picked up from the hotel by staff from Siam Safari and taken to their base in chalong.

The tuk-tuk drivers got angry and blocked the hotel. The police were called and cleared them off.

Centara and Siam Safari have requested a meeting with the phuket govenor.

However, and this is where the story gets very interesting and quite unbelievable.

The president of Karon tuk-tuk, backs his men 100% and is insisting that each guest pay 300 baht to the local tuk-tuk drivers if they want to be picked up by Siam Safari.

His rationale is that if the guests took a tuk-tuk from Karon to Chalong it would be 300 baht per person and that money should stay in the local tuk-tuk drivers pockets because (get this) they look after the environment of Karon. Apparently.

A quite outrageous statement and claim. Does this strike anyone as being a Mafia style operation? Imposing a tax or levy against one company so that its guests can leave the hotel?

I hope the governor comes down very hard on the tuk-tuk Don.

[lovelomsak]

Interesting indeed. please keep us informed. Sound very extortionary to me. Maybe Tuk Tuk president has good contacts and he will get his money.

[stevenl]

This is a first. All the time tour operators pick up guests from the hotels and take them on a tour.

Yes, the tuktuks are a mafia and iutrageous, but it sounds to me there is more to it than centara is telling. Tuktuks chsrge per car, not per person, so the mentioned 300 baht per person is nonsense.

Let's see how this works out, could end up being the start of the mafia demise.

[markg]

Interesting indeed. please keep us informed. Sound very extortionary to me. Maybe Tuk Tuk president has good contacts and he will get his money.

The ramifications for this are great.

Imagine staying at a hotel, booking a trip to Phi Phi where a mini bus comes and takes you to the port, and then the tuk-tuk mafia demanding say 500 baht extra per person for lost revenue...............

Visa run companies also pick up at hotels. Would they too have to be paid.

Incredible.

[KarenBravo]

This is a first.

No it isn't. I believe the tuk-tuks were blockading the Arcadia hotel in Karon a couple of years ago for the same reason. I believe it was because Siam Safari were picking up guests there.

Edited December 9, 2009 by KarenBravo

[laosuwan]

Definately not a first in Phuket. A few months ago the Marriott Courtyard was blockaded by local taxi mafia for letting guests use outside taxi instead of tuk tuk taxi mafia. Laguna hotels have had many incidents over the years. Its endemic here. Now, all these mafia taxi are run by the families that win the election for the local tessaban and or bor tor. Same as the mobs the shut down the highways whenever they have a grieveance. last time the mobs shut down the highway in Kamala the ringleader was the head of the tessaban. Read that in the newspaper. So, there you have it. The government is the mafia and the mafia is the government. Look at jet skis. Never mind the jet skiis are illegal. they are illegally imported without tax. the operators have no license, no business regisration, no insurance, pay no income tax or VAT, provide no beneifts to their "staff" and yet they can openly rob people. In patong you can see the police serving the jet skii operators by directing traffic to allow the trucks towing jet skis to and from the beach to turn against on coming traffic. Think of all the governors who have begun their term saying they are going to shut down jetskis. The governors dont shut them down becuase as we all know the money funnels upwards. Thats a fact. Thats all a governor does. Oh, his job also includes referee disputes between mobs shutting down roads and hotels.

Phuket corruption is like Tijuana mexico in the 1970s. its laughable. Dont look for justice or rule of law here. You can get yourself killed thinking like that.

This is a first.

No it isn't. I believe the tuk-tuks were blockading the Arcadia hotel in Karon a couple of years ago for the same reason. I believe it was because Siam Safari were picking up guests there.

[LivinLOS]

But the whole thing to me is the attitude that we 'must' use their service.. Not that a business lives or dies on the quality of service it provides, or the price, or any one of many real world factors. No the tuktuks must get their slice no matter what they do, and they will blockage, trespass, and break the laws to intimidate and demand their protection money to ensure that their right to that money is protected. Its insane.

Its the very definition of cartel and monopoly that allows no one else to provide a better cheaper service. They really should let them form a blockade and take a dam_n earth mover and smash up a whole bunch of tuktuks, when the 'mob' complains arrest every one that wants to put up a fight and charge them.. This isnt about protecting 'poor thais' its about placating an ever growing (and backed by those with influence) mob. Someone sometime is going to have to take them on or next year its 500 baht per person, etc.

[hkt83100]

There is a very easy solution to this problem: Put meters on these Tuk-Tuks (should be cheaper than taxis because of no aircon) and fine every driver who does not use the meter with at least 10,000 Baht per incident or cancellation of the license. That's it.

[stevenl]

This is a first.

No it isn't. I believe the tuk-tuks were blockading the Arcadia hotel in Karon a couple of years ago for the same reason. I believe it was because Siam Safari were picking up guests there.

You're right, a first is not the correct wording.

I don't recall it exactly, but have somewhere in the back of my mind that at the Arcadia it was something different, but don't know exactly what it was anymore.

I'm convinced though there is something else playing out here, something that lies underneath.

Every day there are lots and lots of tours picking up guests from all the hotels. Why this now, with this tour company and this hotel?

[LivinginKata]

There is a very easy solution to this problem: Put meters on these Tuk-Tuks (should be cheaper than taxis because of no aircon) and fine every driver who does not use the meter with at least 10,000 Baht per incident or cancellation of the license. That's it.

Dream on ....

[steelepulse]

I would love to see the Thai military give the tuk tuks a warning that they are coming and will flatten all vehicles that are involved in the blockade. Then have the tank roll over these vehicles and have the tank drive off with the mafia never knowing who it was that took them on......................... Oh wait, I've just been daydreaming.

[Wellington]

(get this) they look after the environment of Karon. Apparently.

Someone should take a look at the Tuk Tuk "stand" outside the new front entrance to The Avista (Laem Sai Road,Kata)

Drivers are sitting there in a pile of filth, dry litter, paper,plastic you name it

The Hotel only opened last month and has been made aware of this.

Not a nice sight for guests arriving.

Has anything been done, NO and they don't even respond to emails!

[stevenl]

Correction in the post from the OP BTW: the tuktuk charge is 350 baht, but per tuktuk, not per person. That is according to the article.

This does not change the issue at all though IMO.

Edited December 9, 2009 by stevenl

[LivinLOS]

Correction in the post from the OP BTW: the tuktuk charge is 350 baht, but per tuktuk, not per person. That is according to the article.

This does not change the issue at all though IMO.

350 per tuk tuk, and only 4 to a tuk tuk.. Hence the 5 people 700 price.

[steelepulse]

The next thing you know they won't allow the the airport taxis to take them to or from the airport, but rather have them taken to a field where they have to also take a tuk tuk to continue their journey. But why stop there when you can also hijack the cheap bus that is "allowed"to run during daylight hours.

[ScubaBuddha]

markg, thanks for reposting the story. I was about to do the same then saw yours.

The greedy Thai's in Phuket are really getting out of hand. Really shameful they can do this, and as mentioned not the first time. The Siam vs Tuk Tuk battle is not new. Years ago they blocked the entire road between Kata and Chalong. The dive shop pick-ups had to go through Rawaii that day.

However, I would like to make one correction to an assumption that was made by many here which, due to some poor writing or poor English skills of the Karon tuk tuk boss, I believe to be inaccurate. After re-reading the article and the comments from the tuk tuk boss a couple times, I don't believe he is saying that the tuk tuks need to be paid 350 baht, or 700 baht for groups of 5 or more, anytime Siam Adventures picks customers up. The trouble is with this line: ''It's not fair. We need to make sure that the money stays in the local area. All we want is 350 baht for every trip involving between one and four customers. If there are five customers, we will need to take two tuk-tuks, so it will be 700 baht.'' I believe he is trying to say is that they would like to be able to collect the fares and deliver the customers to Siam, evidenced by the fact that he then says, "The fare is one-way, from anywhere in Karon-Kata to Siam Safari, and Siam Safari remains free to continue to return the customers to their resorts afterwards" Some clarification is needed, but it seems far fetched, even for Phuket tuk tuk mafia boss to be openly admitting to extortion. Seems to be setting himself up for trouble if he is saying that. I could be wrong, and I could see him saying that behind closed doors, as extortion is the name of the game for the mafia's in Phuket. It's not a bad word to them, it's just how business is done. Or, maybe the tuk tuk boss is using negotiating tactics and stating a position one past what he actually wants so he can negotiate a "compromise" which allows his cronies to take all the customers to Saim. Hmm..doubtful he is that clever.

A conversation I recently had with a nice Karon tuk tuk driver seems relevent here. He explained how much better organized Karon/Kata tuk tuks were than Patongs, which, according to him explains why fares are more expensive going to Patong than coming back from Patong to Kata/Karon. Less competition. He told me that through the high season, Kata/Karon tuk tuk drivers make on average 50,000 baht a month!, and in the low season never less than 20,000!!! (Consider Thai minimum wage in Phuket is less than 7000 baht a month.) Keeping the money local indeed!!! Greedy little buggers.

Wellington you are exactly right. Protecting the environment? What a bizarre comment. That must have been taken out of context. I went past the Kata Beach tuk tuk/taxi stand IFO Kata Beach Resort last night and noted what an eye sore it is especially now with all the nice modern buildings around.

Of course Siam should be able to pick up their customers in their vintage OD green jeeps as that is part of the experience of it. Who want's to ride in a cramped, underpowered, uncomfortable, noisy, smoke belching, top heavy tuk tuk which have a tendency to flip over on the pass between Kata and Chalong because the drivers take the corner way too fast, which I have seen happen more than once, when they can ride in a comfortable, theme appropriate jeep or vintage truck?

Here's hoping the Governor sets them straight. Yeah right. I expect tourism to take the hit on the nose in this one, yet again.

Edited December 9, 2009 by ScubaBuddha

[ScubaBuddha]

Definately not a first in Phuket. A few months ago the Marriott Courtyard was blockaded by local taxi mafia for letting guests use outside taxi instead of tuk tuk taxi mafia. Laguna hotels have had many incidents over the years. Its endemic here. Now, all these mafia taxi are run by the families that win the election for the local tessaban and or bor tor. Same as the mobs the shut down the highways whenever they have a grieveance. last time the mobs shut down the highway in Kamala the ringleader was the head of the tessaban. Read that in the newspaper. So, there you have it. The government is the mafia and the mafia is the government. Look at jet skis. Never mind the jet skiis are illegal. they are illegally imported without tax. the operators have no license, no business regisration, no insurance, pay no income tax or VAT, provide no beneifts to their "staff" and yet they can openly rob people. In patong you can see the police serving the jet skii operators by directing traffic to allow the trucks towing jet skis to and from the beach to turn against on coming traffic. Think of all the governors who have begun their term saying they are going to shut down jetskis. The governors dont shut them down becuase as we all know the money funnels upwards. Thats a fact. Thats all a governor does. Oh, his job also includes referee disputes between mobs shutting down roads and hotels.

Phuket corruption is like Tijuana mexico in the 1970s. its laughable. Dont look for justice or rule of law here. You can get yourself killed thinking like that.

leosawn, apparently the jet ski issue has been somewhat sorted. They are more legal now than ever before. Insurance is required for them as well now, but in practice the system has broken down and the operators have been going with what they know, demanding money from the tourist for damages. You right though technically the tourists operating them need Thai boat licenses to do so, but it's "not inforced" as so many other things here.

[LivinLOS]

However, I would like to make one correction to an assumption that was made by many here which, due to some poor writing or poor English skills of the Karon tuk tuk boss, I believe to be inaccurate. After re-reading the article and the comments from the tuk tuk boss a couple times, I don't believe he is saying that the tuk tuks need to be paid 350 baht, or 700 baht for groups of 5 or more, anytime Siam Adventures picks customers up. The trouble is with this line: ''It's not fair. We need to make sure that the money stays in the local area. All we want is 350 baht for every trip involving between one and four customers. If there are five customers, we will need to take two tuk-tuks, so it will be 700 baht.'' I believe he is trying to say is that they would like to be able to collect the fares and deliver the customers to Siam, evidenced by the fact that he then says, "The fare is one-way, from anywhere in Karon-Kata to Siam Safari, and Siam Safari remains free to continue to return the customers to their resorts afterwards" Some clarification is needed, but it seems far fetched, even for Phuket tuk tuk mafia boss to be openly admitting to extortion. Seems to be setting himself up for trouble if he is saying that. I could be wrong, and I could see him saying that behind closed doors, as extortion is the name of the game for the mafia's in Phuket. It's not a bad word to them, it's just how business is done. Or, maybe the tuk tuk boss is using negotiating tactics and stating a position one past what he actually wants so he can negotiate a "compromise" which allows his cronies to take all the customers to Saim. Hmm..doubtful he is that clever.

I too agree with this assessment of the statement..

But what I dont agree with it the idea that anyone MUST be forced to use a tuk tuk.. Why do they have sole rights to collect and drop off people within Kata / Karon.. Its that he admits its not a free market and they 'own' the rights to public transport. Its that no trip or tour can operate in the people moving business if your not a tuk tuk.

Hes flat out saying it.. Its not a choice based on supply, demand, service or price.. Its based on cartel and monopoly.. Backed up by threats and blockades. Thats extortion not free market.

[LivinLOS]

leosawn, apparently the jet ski issue has been somewhat sorted. They are more legal now than ever before. Insurance is required for them as well now, but in practice the system has broken down and the operators have been going with what they know, demanding money from the tourist for damages. You right though technically the tourists operating them need Thai boat licenses to do so, but it's "not inforced" as so many other things here.

OT but..

Witnessed on Patong beach just the other day.. Jetski guys claiming for damages caused (odd just behind the seat) and when the argument started to escalate in noise level a little they were all "shhh shhh" and calming it down to attempt to keep it un noticed.

Leads me to believe they are still extorting but no longer can count on police support.

[ScubaBuddha]

I too agree with this assessment of the statement..

But what I dont agree with it the idea that anyone MUST be forced to use a tuk tuk.. Why do they have sole rights to collect and drop off people within Kata / Karon.. Its that he admits its not a free market and they 'own' the rights to public transport. Its that no trip or tour can operate in the people moving business if your not a tuk tuk.

Hes flat out saying it.. Its not a choice based on supply, demand, service or price.. Its based on cartel and monopoly.. Backed up by threats and blockades. Thats extortion not free market.

Agreed Lilos. The story is disgusting enough even if he isn't requesting a toll for other companies to pick up in "his area."

[hkt83100]

Dream on ....

Where would we be without dreaming... :-( It know very well it will never come true. But it would be helpful ;-)

[Samuian]

It's the "puu Yai" system, if one is "Pee" or "Nai"... sure will "the cops" help the "big daddy", sure will everyone connected to the clan or benefiting from it, do anything not to get the boot, well I think some of the posters in this role, would act the same..it's a bit of Thai-cultural inheritance...it will take some time (years) till this system is successfully abolished till then....those involved certainly don't think a second that they are on the wrong side of the story.

[cardew]

Don't know where the posters here have ever taken taxis, but there is no free market in them anywhere in the world I have been, and that is most places.

I've been staying at the Hilton in Karon for a good while, regularly take taxis from the hotel all over Phuket and back, and have never been ripped off.

I know I'd much rather associate with the drivers I meet than the miserable **** who moan on here.

[PoorSucker]

-Sir where are you going.

-For a walk.

-That will be 350 baht, khap.

[pagallim]

Don't know where the posters here have ever taken taxis, but there is no free market in them anywhere in the world I have been, and that is most places.

I've been staying at the Hilton in Karon for a good while, regularly take taxis from the hotel all over Phuket and back, and have never been ripped off.

I know I'd much rather associate with the drivers I meet than the miserable **** who moan on here.

Have to disagree, there is a free market in most places of the world, i.e. you choose to use them or not. The current situation in this post is that tuktuk (i.e. taxis) are demanding payment for other transport providers (tour operators) on the basis they're providing transport to the tour rather than the tuktuk transports.

Bottom line is all about choice. Good that so far you've had pleasant experiences. How would you like it if you went outside your hotel, and found that the road was blocked because you hadn't taken one of the 'preferred' ones?

Miserable ****'s? No sir, me thinks that description is only applicable to you. Remember that most of the posters here actually live here, and are not '2 week millionaires'. Comprende?

[ScubaBuddha]

Don't know where the posters here have ever taken taxis, but there is no free market in them anywhere in the world I have been, and that is most places.

I've been staying at the Hilton in Karon for a good while, regularly take taxis from the hotel all over Phuket and back, and have never been ripped off.

I know I'd much rather associate with the drivers I meet than the miserable **** who moan on here.

Have to disagree, there is a free market in most places of the world, i.e. you choose to use them or not. The current situation in this post is that tuktuk (i.e. taxis) are demanding payment for other transport providers (tour operators) on the basis they're providing transport to the tour rather than the tuktuk transports.

Bottom line is all about choice. Good that so far you've had pleasant experiences. How would you like it if you went outside your hotel, and found that the road was blocked because you hadn't taken one of the 'preferred' ones?

Miserable ****'s? No sir, me thinks that description is only applicable to you. Remember that most of the posters here actually live here, and are not '2 week millionaires'. Comprende?

Cardew is a troll, just disregard.

So pagallim is your take on it then that they just want money for each time Siam Safari does a pick-up or are they saying that they, the tuk tuks, want to deliver the customers? I think it's the latter, no?

[shawndoc]

This is my one complaint with Phuket, the transportation options are all run by a bunch of crooks. Look at the cost of a Tuktuk anywhere in Phuket, and compare it to Bangkok or Chiang Mai. What should be 40-70 baht will run you 200-300 baht depending on which town you're in. And it quickly adds up.

And the problem is even worse getting to/from the airport.

Its getting harder and harder for me to recommend Phuket to friends and family, and I've influenced quite a few people to visit Phuket in the past.

[mrukman]

The news today was thai airways are suing pad over the airport blockade. Why then cant the hotel owners sue the tuk tuk owners for blocking there hotels. I know it won't happen but its about time these thugs and thieve's were taught a lesson and maybe a few of them locked up for comitting a nuisence to hotel guests.

At the end of the day your dealing with idiots and people with sub standard education hence the statement from the tuk tuk boss in karon. Start by setting as example and lock him up for a few days. The governor knows the tourist industry in Phuket mostly Patong is always in the spotlight at present and he will not want this to escalate to world news at least on you tube. Lets see how he deals with this latest knock back.

[pagallim]

Cardew is a troll, just disregard.

So pagallim is your take on it then that they just want money for each time Siam Safari does a pick-up or are they saying that they, the tuk tuks, want to deliver the customers? I think it's the latter, no?

Yes, the latter I agree, though how anyone could agree with such monopolisation, God only knows. What would be their next step, stopping all people leaving the hotel and giving them the third degree on where they are going? Just highlights the desperation that's prevalent within the tourist service sector at the moment.

[maccaroni man]

The news today was thai airways are suing pad over the airport blockade. Why then cant the hotel owners sue the tuk tuk owners for blocking there hotels. I know it won't happen but its about time these thugs and thieve's were taught a lesson and maybe a few of them locked up for comitting a nuisence to hotel guests.

At the end of the day your dealing with idiots and people with sub standard education hence the statement from the tuk tuk boss in karon. Start by setting as example and lock him up for a few days. The governor knows the tourist industry in Phuket mostly Patong is always in the spotlight at present and he will not want this to escalate to world news at least on you tube. Lets see how he deals with this latest knock back.

they even have control over the hotels who offer free shuttle service?! We have a good friend who moved from samui to phuket as a job promtion within the crentral chain, when he arrived he had to deal with a blockade and threads from the tuk tuks because of his free shuttle service, and the bib? not a word. TIT