leah Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I came across an interesting blog post a couple days ago. This guy has a method to learn Thai in 8 weeks. He has successfully learned several other languages before, so it should be interesting to see how far he gets in Thai - he wrote that he'll document his success with a video. It seems like he is going to begin by focusing on reading and producing the tones. I guess I can't post the URL here but it is the most recent entry at fluentin3months dot com. [Edit: http://www.fluentin3months.com/thai-in-8-weeks-mission/] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikker Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 This guy's in Bangkok now. You can follow him on Twitter (@irishpolyglot) or even meet him tonight and offer your suggestions for learning Thai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaccha Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) His grasp on reality is limited: " I don't speak any other Asian languages. I’ve never dealt with a tonal language before, and I’ve never read a language that doesn’t use the Latin alphabet" But his goal is very easy to achieve: "I want to be able to correctly speak the 5 tones of Thai and be able to read a given text of several sentences aloud to a local (who is not necessarily familiar with English and European accents), so that they can understand it." It would be astonishing if he failed. Edited January 9, 2010 by Gaccha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikker Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I met him last night. Really nice, personable guy and fun to talk to. I agree, Gaccha, that it's an achievable goal. The really astonishing thing is how many people don't speak or read after living here for years and years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickBradford Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 a given text of several sentences aloud That depends on whether he's seen the text before or is seeing it for the first time. I'm sure we all know some texts which would challenge even experienced readers on first sight. But if he has time to prepare the text, then he could potentially write a transcription and read it from there, and where's the pleasure in that? Or he could basically memorize the passage, which again defeats the object. Anyway, he has set himself an admirable goal, I wish him well, and I will watch his progress with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmax Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 im in school now learning 2 hours every morning, im finding it difficult ! good luck to him as i know i couldnt do it in 8 weeks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rak sa_ngop Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 In the school I attended a few years ago I met an Asian-American who was learning Thai (I am not sure but I don't think he could speak any other Asian languages). He was a university professor and within about 8 weeks he was speaking pretty good Thai, much to the chagrin of other students who were cr*p in comparison. I believe he used some type of mind-mapping technique to learn the vocabulary. It can be done, but in my opinion only by the gifted few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoftWater Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I don't know whether its deliberate sleight of hand or just clever blog marketing, but the goal is not that difficult. 'Fluent in 3 months' (the blog name) - impossible. 'Speak a few lines of Thai in 8 weeks' - easily achievable with intensive study. As Rick says, passing his own 'test' depends much on what kind of text he chooses - but I think its safe to say it'll be something based on the vocabulary he learns over those 8 weeks. I'm fully supportive of what he's doing - both in advertising the fact that any language can be learned with a bit of dedication and his attempt to learn Thai. I'm a little wary of where he's going with this, though. Quote "He has a method to learn Thai..." Are we going to see 'Benny the Polyglot' language products in the next couple of years? Hmmmm....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulandmaneerat Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I am attempting to learn to read and write Thai in a fairly concentrated 13 week course, 10 hours a week. Only one week gone and I'm surprised how much I have learned. Long way to go, but so far I have about 180 consonant / vowel combinations learned. I make mistakes, and read very slowly. I am getting the sounds right first, then add the meanings. I'm told this is the best way. When I embarked on the course last weekend I was very apprehensive and very confused, but I am beginning to get my confidence that at 64 years of age I can probably do it. Tonight we start the next 24 consonants! P&M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaccha Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) I just don't buy this idea that it is the tones that are the major obstacle. It is the stresses. Since they are not shown in the dictionaries they have to be heard. If you say a word 'tonedeaf' but with the right stress then a Thai will not even blink. Native English speakers stress the first syllable on a noun (usually) and the second syllable on a verb (a lot of the time), which means Issan dialect is often easier-- it tends to have a dropped stress on the noun. It's learning the vocab that is staggeringly tedious. You need to get to 12,000 words, but just getting to the first 3,000 is very hard going because it is so dull. Once you get to 3,000, the World is your oyster since you can learn via movies, dramas, cartoons etc., learning idioms, odd grammar patterns. Edited January 11, 2010 by Gaccha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishpolyglot Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) I noticed a bit of traffic coming to my site from this page. Glad to see my project has sparked some interest! I also found some great resources in these forums; I wasn't aware of this site before so thanks for the link love To answer some questions I see above: * I don't necessarily have "a method" to learn Thai in 8 weeks. This is an experiment to see if my current method that works well with European languages, can be adapted and if I can find a fast and efficient way of learning Thai writing and tones, which as far as I can tell are the major difference (everything else, including learning vocabulary [and even correct use of stress as mentioned above], being the same or actually easier than in European languages, especially grammar). If my experiment is a success I'll blog about what my method is for others who wish to learn Thai quickly. * "his goal is very easy to achieve... it would be astonishing if he failed". To the best of my knowledge, very few other farangs learn Thai quickly. If they do, they'd be dismissed as being a "language genius". I've already met expats living here for years who don't have more than the basics. I think my goal is do-able, but definitely not easy. You seem to have misunderstood what I'm aiming for: * I plan to be able to spontaneously read aloud ANY TEXT (that I've never seen before, e.g. newspaper article) by the end of the 8 weeks (in such a way that it's understood well) and have some level of conversation (approximately lower intermediate). I'm not aiming for parrot-level with just a store of words and phrases I can repeat; I want to actually communicate. This will not be easy, but I am confident that I have a good chance. My success will have much more to do with efficient study and the application method rather than intelligence and "natural ability". (I failed languages in school; this is a recent passion for me) @Rikker Thanks, it was nice meeting you too! I won't be able to tell you stories of my travels these months through Thai, but I'm hoping you'll be pleased with my "ok" level nonetheless come first week of March when I'm back in Bangkok So far, I can already read aloud most signs without relying on romanisation. I've put in a total of about 5 hours study since I got here (have to unfortunately work full time), but that's more than enough to apply good memory techniques to all symbols and test yourself reading random texts. I'll go into detail on that in a post tonight/tomorrow. Hope you enjoy the blog and leave comments. Thanks again for mentioning the mission here Leah! Edited January 12, 2010 by irishpolyglot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadish_sweetball Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 everything else, including learning vocabulary [and even correct use of stress as mentioned above], being the same or actually easier than in European languages, especially grammar Regarding grammar being easier than in European languages, that is very much a 'yes and no' thing. Once you have acquired the basic rules of word order etc (which are indeed very easy), and the most common patterns, you will quickly bump into the next hurdle, that Thai has so many quirks and idiomatic expressions, as well as that casual Thai is so open-ended, that the rules become close to useless and the possibility of landing a correct guess for some passages, even when you feel you have a good grasp of the structure as well as the meaning of individual words, is next to zero, even for gifted language learners. I see DavidHouston reading this, he has posted numerous interesting passages here in the forum where the correct interpretation is next to impossible to decode, except for somebody with massive background knowledge. Luckily we have a few such people here as regulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidHouston Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I, too, am very interested in this 8-week experiment. Effort and methodology are certainly important factors in learning a language. But, let's face it, our learning capacities fall along a bell curve, just like other functions. A small group of polymaths, Stuart Jay Raj, are at one end of the curve, and others are at the opposite end. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle. In addition, our abilities to comprehend new languages and acquire specific language skills likely do diminish over time. I guess a Buddhist would say, "the key is not to suffer or experience anxiety; wherever one is along the language learning curve is o.k." There will always be individuals who will learn faster and be better communicators than you (o.k., there may be none better than Stuart); but you will almost always be better than someone else. Is Thai easy or difficult? The answer is clearly, "Yes." Be happy where you are and enjoy the journey. I wish Irishpolyglot the best of luck in his studies and I am happy that he will be keeping us informed of his progress and providing us study hints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishpolyglot Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 "so many quirks and idiomatic expressions" EVERY language has this. Open endedness and vagueness in languages is also something I've come across before. I'm sorry but even if these are hard, they are still not unique to Thai. That's part of the difficulty in learning any language, even if the workload is greater in Thai due to the greater number of differences (both cultural and linguistic), I still don't see why the same learning techniques can't be applied. Note that I'm not aiming for perfect "correct interpretation" in 8 weeks. I don't ever aim for perfection - I will make mistakes and I'm cool with that. I don't think that the impossibility of (anyone) to learn a language perfectly should hold us back from giving a pretty dam_n good stab at doing it well I've already come across some words that are untranslatable, but seeing them in context a few times helps fine for "getting" them. Once again plenty of languages have plenty of quirks. There will be lots of things I will never understand in Thai, even if I decided to live here. That's not something I'm trying to disprove. Everything you mentioned is something to concern people aiming for professional level Thai. This is the very problem I have with the academic approach (perfectionism), which contrasts with how I've learned other languages. Looking forward to hearing the opinions of the other regulars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishpolyglot Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Thanks David!! I like your philosophy I've seen Stuart Ray Jay's videos and I'm quite impressed! However, I'm aiming to shatter that bell curve and let "mere mortals" know that they too can find shortcuts to learning languages without having to give up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parvis Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Irishpolyglot - I am pleased to see that there others who believe there are better methods in learning a language than currently accepted - it just has to be researched and experimented with. It is the effort to try what has not been done before that gives those who try the "edge" to succeed. I am also very interested in your progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickmanchester2 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 So is it ok to work as a freelance translator in thailand on an extended tourist visa? I think I know the answer to this one - be careful. fluentin3months.com/how-to-become-a-location-independent-freelance-translator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishpolyglot Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) @nick I'm not working "in Thailand". My VAT number is Irish, my bank is Irish, my clients are European, my official address is in Ireland. I am working in Europe, but "doing it" here. I'm in Thailand as a tourist, plain and simple, I'm not employed here or working as a freelance/entrepreneur based in Thailand or with Thai clients/business. I don't take work away from Thais or illegally process any money in Thailand. From an economic point of view, there is just a pure inflow of money from my ATM or credit card to the Thai economy, just like with all other tourists. Officially, I don't see what rule I'm breaking Anyway, I'm not the only location independent worker in Thailand... Edited January 12, 2010 by irishpolyglot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickmanchester2 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 @nick I'm not working "in Thailand". My VAT number is Irish, my bank is Irish, my clients are European, my official address is in Ireland. I am working in Europe, but "doing it" here. I'm in Thailand as a tourist, plain and simple, I'm not employed here or working as a freelance/entrepreneur based in Thailand or with Thai clients/business. I don't take work away from Thais or illegally process any money in Thailand. There is just a pure inflow of money from my ATM or credit card, just like with all other tourists. Officially, I don't see what rule I'm breaking Anyway, I'm not the only location independent worker in Thailand... yep, i am in the same boat as you, I can work from anywhere... although i got a 12 month non immigrant visa delivered from Hull this morning so can stay a bit longer if I like. But I wont be shouting about it... in fact, I am going to say to any falang/thai that I meet that I am there for studying thai and I wont mention my UK job, UK bank and UK clients as I dont want deporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikker Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Benny, at the end of your 8 weeks let's meet up again and I can help you assess how far you came. I'll be very interested to hear you read aloud, and if you get my thumbs up, that should earn you a few points with the naysayers around here. ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoftWater Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 (edited) Benny, at the end of your 8 weeks let's meet up again and I can help you assess how far you came. I'll be very interested to hear you read aloud, and if you get my thumbs up, that should earn you a few points with the naysayers around here. ;P I don't think anyone is "naysaying" - it's a great idea and good luck to him. I'm sure everyone on the forum wishes him well and is happy to help with any questions, certainly I am. As we all know, you could do an intensive course at a Union school that would get you quite competent in 8 weeks. Benny's working full-time and focusing on writing, making it much harder, but perhaps that's countered in some way by his previous language-learning experience and organisation skills (how many of us approached Thai with any kind of language learning background or organised strategy when we first started? I'm STILL not doing that!!!). I know first-hand that its not that difficult to learn the symbols and phonetic rules to be able to say out loud what you read - eight weeks is surely enough. However, understanding is another matter, and as Benny says, he's not aiming to just be able to read parrot fashion. That's going to need a vocabulary of at least 3-5000 words, and for newspapers, even more. If he manages to acquire that much vocab in 8 weeks that would be truly remarkable, and I would be a 'naysayer' if it was suggested that anyone could do that by following some 'method' or 'study plan' or 'simple principles', 'memory techniques' or whatever way it is described. Nonetheless, no matter how far he gets in 8 weeks he'll have got quite far relative to where he started, and that can only be a good thing. It remains to be seen what claims are made after that about what the whole project means in relation to others' language learning efforts. Edited January 14, 2010 by SoftWater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadish_sweetball Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 "so many quirks and idiomatic expressions" EVERY language has this. Open endedness and vagueness in languages is also something I've come across before. I'm sorry but even if these are hard, they are still not unique to Thai. That's part of the difficulty in learning any language, even if the workload is greater in Thai due to the greater number of differences (both cultural and linguistic), I still don't see why the same learning techniques can't be applied. No need to get defensive. I am not disagreeing about the learning techniques being applicable, nor did I wish to make out that Thai is unique for having quirks... My point was more about the degree to which they occur compared to the other (European) languages I have studied. Note that I'm not aiming for perfect "correct interpretation" in 8 weeks. I don't ever aim for perfection - I will make mistakes and I'm cool with that. I don't think that the impossibility of (anyone) to learn a language perfectly should hold us back from giving a pretty dam_n good stab at doing it well Of course not. The more the merrier, and the one thing that always works when it comes to language learning is persistence. I've already come across some words that are untranslatable, but seeing them in context a few times helps fine for "getting" them. Once again plenty of languages have plenty of quirks. There will be lots of things I will never understand in Thai, even if I decided to live here. That's not something I'm trying to disprove. Everything you mentioned is something to concern people aiming for professional level Thai. This is the very problem I have with the academic approach (perfectionism), which contrasts with how I've learned other languages.Looking forward to hearing the opinions of the other regulars! I wish you good luck, too. Do let us know how you get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneman Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 . I certainly hope Irishpoly accomplishs his goal of learning Thai from scratch in 8 weeks (to the standard he specifies). It brings to mind Roger Bannister; the first man in history to run a mile in under 4 minutes. Once Bannister did, others quickly followed at even faster times. For the Thai language, Irishpoly may demonstrate what rate of learning is really possible. -- Oneman Chiangmai Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Bannister . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeSurd Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Any news on how this guy Benny is doing? Isn't he about halfway through his 8 weeks now? Good luck to him anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leah Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) Maybe he'll be in here to update us himself, but I saw that he made a video about it, showing that he can produce some of the tones. He also made the connection between Thai tones and the tones we use in English for asking a question, making a statement, etc. - this isn't a particularly novel idea (most resources on learning Thai will mention it), but it's always good to be reminded that tones aren't really that foreign. It also looks like he made an updated post today with his rules and shortcuts on reading Thai. One thing I'm surprised by is his insistence that everyone warned him it takes months/years to read or told him he can't do it, because I haven't seen anyone say that at all, and in fact quite the opposite. With that said, his shortcuts seem pretty good, and actually gave me a new idea to try, to remember the alphabetical order of the letters (something I've never quite gotten down) by associating each one with its order number. Edited February 4, 2010 by leah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handydog Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I noticed a bit of traffic coming to my site from this page. Glad to see my project has sparked some interest! I also found some great resources in these forums; I wasn't aware of this site before so thanks for the link love To answer some questions I see above: * I don't necessarily have "a method" to learn Thai in 8 weeks. This is an experiment to see if my current method that works well with European languages, can be adapted and if I can find a fast and efficient way of learning Thai writing and tones, which as far as I can tell are the major difference (everything else, including learning vocabulary [and even correct use of stress as mentioned above], being the same or actually easier than in European languages, especially grammar). If my experiment is a success I'll blog about what my method is for others who wish to learn Thai quickly. * "his goal is very easy to achieve... it would be astonishing if he failed". To the best of my knowledge, very few other farangs learn Thai quickly. If they do, they'd be dismissed as being a "language genius". I've already met expats living here for years who don't have more than the basics. I think my goal is do-able, but definitely not easy. You seem to have misunderstood what I'm aiming for: * I plan to be able to spontaneously read aloud ANY TEXT (that I've never seen before, e.g. newspaper article) by the end of the 8 weeks (in such a way that it's understood well) and have some level of conversation (approximately lower intermediate). I'm not aiming for parrot-level with just a store of words and phrases I can repeat; I want to actually communicate. This will not be easy, but I am confident that I have a good chance. My success will have much more to do with efficient study and the application method rather than intelligence and "natural ability". (I failed languages in school; this is a recent passion for me) @Rikker Thanks, it was nice meeting you too! I won't be able to tell you stories of my travels these months through Thai, but I'm hoping you'll be pleased with my "ok" level nonetheless come first week of March when I'm back in Bangkok So far, I can already read aloud most signs without relying on romanisation. I've put in a total of about 5 hours study since I got here (have to unfortunately work full time), but that's more than enough to apply good memory techniques to all symbols and test yourself reading random texts. I'll go into detail on that in a post tonight/tomorrow. Hope you enjoy the blog and leave comments. Thanks again for mentioning the mission here Leah! Do you have a method for learning Welsh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishpolyglot Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 (edited) @Leah - everyone in this forum has been extremely helpful, and most comments on my site are positive However, I asked for advice on Lonely Planet's thorntree forum and got a wave of people tell me how arrogant I am. As well as that, I get discouraging reminder comments occassionally on the site and quite a few e-mails through my contact-me form. Obviously, never from Thais, just from farangs who themselves put years into learning who think everyone else should suffer the same or it isn't fair... Glad you liked my suggestion for learning alphabetical order! @handydog Sorry mate; I haven't learned any Welsh!! I'll be writing a few posts about Irish Gaelic just after I finish this Thai mission. Irish and Welsh are really different, but since they are in the same family, maybe something I'd say about Irish might help a wee bit! In terms of my progress, I think I said everything pretty much on the site; I've only put a few hours into just pure reading since I was intentionally being a tourist in the south. I'm moving up to Chiang Mai tomorrow and will attempt to speak as much as possible (phrase-book in hand), and we'll see how much I can learn to converse in my final 4 weeks! Thanks again for all the positivity here!! Edited February 5, 2010 by irishpolyglot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desi Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 @Leah - everyone in this forum has been extremely helpful, and most comments on my site are positive However, I asked for advice on Lonely Planet's thorntree forum and got a wave of people tell me how arrogant I am. In which Lonely Planet thread? I can only find this one and they all seem positive as well as helpful - Can a linguist learn Thai tones and script in 2 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishpolyglot Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Whoops! My bad!! I got my forums mixed up; I always write to a few language/travel forums to encourage more interested commenters to the site. Seems, I confused LPTT with one of the other ones I was on. My apologies to Thorntree for the unwarranted negativity... about negativity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishpolyglot Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 BTW, I have 2 questions, maybe someone can help? 1. I think I'll stay in Chiang Mai for the next few weeks and focus on speaking here (currently looking for a flat). How is the dialect different here from standard central? 2. Could someone possibly point out a link to a non-standard-font alphabet? The skewed symbols are hard to read only because I don't have a way to compare them directly other than guessing similarities. For example "S" looks way more like ธ than ร to me, (which I was wrong about) so I do need a wee bit of help with this aspect Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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