Jump to content

Canadian Confesses, Pays Fine At Phuket Court


Recommended Posts

Only those actually there know what really happened, so any judgements or assumptions on the part of anyone here is simply irrelevant... not even the damage to the face of the Canadian proves anything conclusive one way or the other... maybe he was assaulted first, maybe he got whacked in retaliation for assaulting the other guy... nothing proven, just another bad ad for Thailand and Phuket in particular!! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 203
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

My feelings are the local government are at fault for not having regulated these tuktuks years ago, Its quite clear there should be some kind of shuttle bus service but i read somewhere this mafia did,nt allow it or even burned a bus to the ground?

Why is it the local government dont have control over the police and tuktuk mafia? or are they on the take also. :)

The route of the bus in question was Patong to Karon via the shorter mountain route. The price was 10-20 Baht. They pulled the driver off the bus, and they proceeded to beat the crap out of him.

By the way, for those who think that the general thrust of this,and the initial topic, is to promote racist attitudes towards Thais, you need to read more carefully. Now I will make it very simple so even highly intelligent idealists can understand.

If a Thai national , or any other foreigner, visits the seedier areas of Vancouver/Las Angeles/London etc, and he gets beaten over a cab fare/parking/verbal/traffic dispute, the police will arrive. They will rescue him. The offenders will be arrested. He will not have to worry about extortion. If the aforementioned incidents happened in the tourist zones, there would be inquiries, media storms, and a very high likelihood that the observing public would intervene.

In a previous life i once took a part time job as a taxi driver in the uk ( indian owned company) in the begining it was quite enjoyable driving kids to school and old ladies to the hospital, After a while i was asked to work on a saturday night and had thoughts to rebel against it but in the end agreed to give it a try, Sometime after closing time and having the rear seat pissed full by drunks who fell to sleep 2 young guys got in and asked me to drive them to the next city (night clubbing) i did a quick call to the control center and asked how the fare worked...they said do it with the meter, when we arrived the 2 guys looked at the meter and said...were not paying that! i told them...better for me you just do a runner then i dont have to witness the outcome,Their answer was no...we dont refuse to pay...we just refuse to pay that amount, I had to radio the center to inform them 2 passengers dont want to pay...the police arrived and roughed them up then they paid....i quit the job.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have friends who did in fact see the canadian first verbally, and then physically attack the driver!!

BUT consider the following..long i know but shows the facts.

I am the first to agree that violence is not always the way to solve a problem,but please ,all you expats consider what goes on in your own countries,they are not immune to these types of goings on at all. Most taxi and/or tuk-tuk drivers anywhere in the world are not exactly rocket scientists but most are good people, and it only takes a few bad apples to upset the works.

The difference is that in expats home countries these people are probably on a salary plus percent as income or they are owner drivers..The few bad apples there are either greedy and/or predatory in an bid to increse their take home pay.

In phuket only 20% are owner drivers, so the majority are leasees.These guys have to pay 500 baht dailey in the high season, and 300 baht in the low,[ and the low these days is probably at least 8 months long] to their collective employers..Who they are i can not find out yet, but no doubt they are in the upper end of society!and anonamous for their own protection.

They ,like any mafia around the world have underlings to do their menial tasks, such as finance collection,self protection,standovers, etc.Basically these upper enders are the very ones that some of you misguided expats think are the ones to appeal to to stop this rot. IMPOSSIBLE..They are not at all concerned.

What you are seeing is the tip of the iceburg [the drivers] .They are visible to us at all times, and sadly when one snaps due to the situation they are in regards finances in this quiet high season the sh--t hits the fan and ,well look at some of the outragious comments posted, unbelievable statements from some 'educated expats', quite embarressing some of them!

Anyway back to the root cause of all this; The drivers [scapegoats] are made the villain in all this.

Like i said ,high season..500 baht, low season 300 baht to be paid to the MAN. Come hel_l or high water this money MUST be paid.

They are given grace of 3 days of non pay ,then they get the visit.A beating, followed by the taking back of the tuk-tuk and basically told GO HOME and don't return..huge loss of face as well as loss of employment. Of course there is a queue of potential new drivers waiting to take his place to earn BIG MONEY [as they are told] and this cycle repeats and repeats.

And the uppers naturally want more and more tuk-tuks to provide more and more daily income...not a problem in their eyes.

Consider the sheer number of tuk-tuks now,compared to the lower number of fares, and you don't have to be Einstein to see that the drivers are stuggling to meet their financial obligations, after also paying running costs, it is near impossible to earn a basic living even now , let alone after Feb.

The consequence of all this is exactly what we see now!

When times get tough[er] a man will react, often violently in a bid to have at least some income.

This is the case in the whole TWO incidents so far regarding drivers over reacting!!

IMO this is going to get far, far more common an occurance as time goes on, as more and more drivers can not meet their obligations to the secretive bosses.....Desperate people often make the wrong decisions..thats human nature!!

Uh, happyinkathu, 150 baht for a one minute fare means a very short distance. 500 baht per day to rent the tuk-tuk. 4 fares and he has covered his daily nut. Minimum fare is 100 baht. 5 fares and he has made his daily nut. 4 or 5 of these fares represent about 30 minutes total running time. That would be about 50 baht max in fuel. Explain the economic oppression again, please? Taxis overseas operate the same way, only they paid about US$90 per day 10 years ago in NY City. No way they could ever cover that in 30 minutes. So, please explain again the rationale for pitying the tuk-tuk drivers. Correct me if I am wrong, but what I see in your opining is a lethargic entitlement mindset, viz., because they pay 500 baht they are entitled to adequate income. Well, excuse me, but if they have only one minimum fare an hour during high season and work, (if you can call sleeping and waiting for a fare to wake you up work), 9 hours a day they earn about 10-12K a month. During slow seasons their revenues increase by 200 baht per day or 5-6K per month, based on one minimum fare per hour. I know families living on half that amount. Of course, you have to stay awake.

Entitlement mindsets preclude the concept of earning, and the idea of "value for money" is foreign. But not always. There is lethargy in NY as well and the entitlement mindset there is in full bloom now. Doesn't the driver have the option to negotiate renting 10 tuk-tuks? Possibly getting a marginal volume discount? But even without the discount, since you say there is a queue of potential new drivers, he can re-rent them for 550-600 baht per day, with no capital investment! He could sleep all day and make the same amount, guaranteed. Or, instead of sleeping, he could train drivers to clean the vehicles, dress in a flattering way and offer a free bottle of chilled water which costs him 7 baht or less. Now he is offering added value and expands to 50 vehicles, which he doesn't even have to buy. His drivers are his own little union and can control the main pickup spots by thumping the individual drivers on the nose to clear them out. At this point, he is earning 500-600K a month with no captial investment, based on only one minimum fare per hour. Now, happyinkathu, before you rush out the door and launch this new enterprise, here is the best part. As you grow a thousand or more drivers and offer them training and protection, these secretive uppers as you call them will, have to pay you to get their tuk-tuks on the street. Or you could buy your own vehicles and become one of them. Cheers!

Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading the news on Mr Anwar's escapades, and this is my opinion only, Mr Anwar forgot why he is there. He is on a holiday. 3 days of R & R in the new year with his wife. Mr Anwar also should realise he is in a foreign land where he does not speak the language and the people although waiing all the time are fake. It is just a custom not something they do out of the goodness of their heart. He should know this. He work in Japan where they bow to each other more out of propriety than anything else. On top of this, Phuket is a tourist spot especially Patong area and they have been used to milking the system.

He had agreed to the said price 150tb before they took the tuk-tuk. Irregardless of the distance, this is a verbal agreement and binding in some countries. Even if he feel he had been had, he should have paid up brush it off as one of many possible rip-off encounters he is going to get on his holiday and enjoy himself.

But NOOO, Mr Anwar decided he is going to show this tuk-tuk driver whose the boss and will only pay him 100bt. To me, that savings of 50bt almost could not buy him water in Phuket yet Mr Anwar was willing to forsake his safety in a strange land for it.

True enough, Mr Anwar had to spend a grand total of 2,000bt in hospital bills and 1,000bt to pay a fine to leave the country and most importantly his holiday is ruined. 3,000bt extra against a 50bt savings.

I have been to Phuket for a holiday recently and it has changed alot post tsunami. A 50bt tuk-tuk ride is now 100bt but we took it in our stride, haggle with them a little and once they agreed to the price than take the tuk-tuk, there is normally no problem. Sometimes, being in such a country where some things are modern but alot of tradition such as face is very much in place, it is best to separate western ideals and opinions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
It's about tourists, and did you really need to bring that kind of racist talk into the equation?

What's racist about it?

Racist: Look it up in the Ask Oxford dictionary

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/racism

1. noun: the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race.

2. verb: discrimination against or antagonism towards other races

What the chap is saying is that it is a characteristic of, quote, "South Asians (probably Indian/Pakistani)". Whether negative or positive (flaw/trait) is not relevant in the definition. It is the characteristic that is mentioned in the definition.

In its verb form (2), "discrimination against or antagonism towards other races". How is the chap, the one you admonish, being discriminatory? This topic surrounds the circumstances of someone who we are arguing is of a particular nationality and therefore his nationality has to be included in the sentence otherwise the sentence would not be complete and therefore not worthy of being admissable.

If you follow the definition you get the clear picture.

It is not an act or racism. Plus, everyone knows that Indians and Pakistanis are stingy and they even pride themselves on it. Thus, failing to be antagonistic. Iwill go as far as saying that all the Pakistano and Indian friends i've got eveb see it as a trait and would not have any issue being called stingy.

If someone calls you stingy (whatever your race) do you really believe that you are being racially targetted, even if they do or don't mention which part of the World you come from?

The illustrative example of "All white Brits are stingy" is not racist, so why should it be when mentioning others?

By your logic if i say "all woman have got breasts", is regarded as sexist.

Take your politically correct compass and point it back to your own "wannabe controlling, language imposing" self. You are not the language police! Thanks god!

Oh...pardon me was the mention of God being religionist?

Of course its racist, and you PROVED it is racist, under the NOUN definition. Attributing universal characteristics based on race is always racist. Negative or positive ones. Of course stingy is negative. An example, African Americans are sometimes called "good athletes" and "good dancers"; these are positive characteristics, and its totally racist to say such a thing. No, I am not the language police here. The mods here are. Frankly I am surprised they enforce anti-Thai racist comments, but not anti South Asian ones. That's their call.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Uh, happyinkathu, 150 baht for a one minute fare means a very short distance. 500 baht per day to rent the tuk-tuk. 4 fares and he has covered his daily nut. Minimum fare is 100 baht. 5 fares and he has made his daily nut. 4 or 5 of these fares represent about 30 minutes total running time. That would be about 50 baht max in fuel. Explain the economic oppression again, please? Taxis overseas operate the same way, only they paid about US$90 per day 10 years ago in NY City. No way they could ever cover that in 30 minutes. So, please explain again the rationale for pitying the tuk-tuk drivers. Correct me if I am wrong, but what I see in your opining is a lethargic entitlement mindset, viz., because they pay 500 baht they are entitled to adequate income. Well, excuse me, but if they have only one minimum fare an hour during high season and work, (if you can call sleeping and waiting for a fare to wake you up work), 9 hours a day they earn about 10-12K a month. During slow seasons their revenues increase by 200 baht per day or 5-6K per month, based on one minimum fare per hour. I know families living on half that amount. Of course, you have to stay awake.

Entitlement mindsets preclude the concept of earning, and the idea of "value for money" is foreign. But not always. There is lethargy in NY as well and the entitlement mindset there is in full bloom now. Doesn't the driver have the option to negotiate renting 10 tuk-tuks? Possibly getting a marginal volume discount? But even without the discount, since you say there is a queue of potential new drivers, he can re-rent them for 550-600 baht per day, with no capital investment! He could sleep all day and make the same amount, guaranteed. Or, instead of sleeping, he could train drivers to clean the vehicles, dress in a flattering way and offer a free bottle of chilled water which costs him 7 baht or less. Now he is offering added value and expands to 50 vehicles, which he doesn't even have to buy. His drivers are his own little union and can control the main pickup spots by thumping the individual drivers on the nose to clear them out. At this point, he is earning 500-600K a month with no captial investment, based on only one minimum fare per hour. Now, happyinkathu, before you rush out the door and launch this new enterprise, here is the best part. As you grow a thousand or more drivers and offer them training and protection, these secretive uppers as you call them will, have to pay you to get their tuk-tuks on the street. Or you could buy your own vehicles and become one of them. Cheers!

:)

Great ramble my friend..very obvious you have very little understanding of the tuk-tuk situation in Phuket.

Like i said ''the sheer amount of tuk-tuks now on the streets combined with this ''quiet'' high season'' means that often a driver has only a few fares daily. Sure a few of them in high profile areas do make a quid but very few !!This high season income is needed to tide them over the long low season where drivers can go 2-3 days and more without a single fare. Your rave ,my friend is very flawed huh!Cheers to you..PS. now i have re-read your post i see you are only joking..right!..sorry yesdavy :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually it should read:

"Thais generally exude an appearance of calm but are prone to violence, even in mundane disagreements, which are typically resolved peacefully in most other countries. Due to a dysfunctional, corrupt law enforcement system and rampant racism, foreigners should be warned that they are likely to be found responsible for any altercation between themselves and a Thai & consequently subject to extortion and possible incarceration, regardless of who is at fault." 

sooooo true!

Reminds me of the one and only Thailaw regarding foreigners.

IF YOU ARE NOT HERE THE INCIDENT (ACCIDENT) WON`T HAPPEND IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Link to post
Share on other sites

AH i see the Canadian is already in court & paid hes fine, may be if he broke the driver arm & attacked hes family he would of been let off, as is that tuk tuk driver who attacked the french family, WHERE IS HE????????

Link to post
Share on other sites
Of course its racist, and you PROVED it is racist, under the NOUN definition. Attributing universal characteristics based on race is always racist. Negative or positive ones. Of course stingy is negative. An example, African Americans are sometimes called "good athletes" and "good dancers"; these are positive characteristics, and its totally racist to say such a thing. No, I am not the language police here. The mods here are. Frankly I am surprised they enforce anti-Thai racist comments, but not anti South Asian ones. That's their call.

I never said anything racist about Thais or anyone else.

Are you realistically expecting me to consider that calling a black guy 'a good athlete' is racist just because he is a good athlete? Calling a black guy 'a good dancer' is racist just because he busts some cool moves? Are you insane? For your information i not 100% black....i am not 100% anything other than mixed.....and i know full well what constitutes racism. I have African blood running through my veins as well as European blood.

I have a very very close friend from St. Kitts, raised in UK. He is 100% St.Kitts! The real deal! I know for a nailed on fact that when i go to clubs with him he dances better than anyone i've ever seen - on screen or in real life - end everyone tells him the same thing 'you are a wonderful dancer'. He DOES NOT think it's racist one bit at all, he loves it. His brother is not as good but he is still 'a good dancer' and he doesn't give a shti either.

You are way wide of the mark!

If you are applying your twisted sense of logic with your 'good dancer' nonsense then we could apply it to any race or any attribute. If you called Mike Tyson 'a good boxer' in his day, do you think he'd call you racist? No, he wouldn't! If i called you 'a good man' that’s sexist in your mystical myopic mindset! And with that, we are not allowed to compliment anyone of any race! What utter rubbish!

I hope some guys (white, black, green, midnight-blue or whatever you are); regardless of where you come from, or where brought up, can comment on this.

I appreciate that this is not strictly linked to the main topic, but it is connected by virtue of the fact that that one poster commented on the origin of the Mr. Anwar. But i am more than willing to set up a new topic on this, if advised to do so by a moderator.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have been going to Phuket a long time. And the price of tuk tuks, the mafia label, and various other negative aspects of transportation in Phuket are well known to non-tourists--even guide books mention the problems. Since the beaches have grown into carnivals of "nightlife"(Patong) or just tourist traps(Karon/Kata) I usually stay in Phuket town, favoring it's low key ambiance, restored architecture, and faceless qualities. And transport to beaches is easily accomplished by public sangtow transportation--about 50-60 baht each direction to Patong is the norm as opposed to 500 baht by taxi.

Several common sense rules exist in Thailand. First of all, when a price is agreed upon both parties keep the deal. If you think the price is too high, you negotiate before the trip starts. Secondly, never ever go violent in Thailand because you seldom take on one guy but a collection of his peers who will beat you down.

You can also rent a cheap suzuki "jeep" for 700baht a day in ptown. 1000 for a new car. 150-200baht for a motorbike

Link to post
Share on other sites

:)

Hey jingthing...as a business operater here in Phuket,do you really expect me and many others to suffer even more financial hardship so you can''have some fun'' Thanks a lot ...Why dont you keep your great ideas for the dump you live in ''Patts'' i do believe it is!!There must be plenty over there for you to focus on.

The hysteria being created about a few very unfortunate and unnecessary incidents is already very damaging for us all.

Consider the amount of people who actually do have a problem, compared to the number of visiters and it is a very small percentage.It does happen, no doubt about it and every effort should be made to to prevent any more, but hey, any touristy destination in the world has similar problems!! BTW....I DO NOT CONDONE THEIR BEHAVIOUR IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM!!

Your ''solution'' to hurt the various ''mafia's'' will hurt all of us directly in the hip pocket and with this predicted short high season we already have enough problems here thank you very much!!!Please butt out!

Sure, make people aware of what can happen but dont make us all suffer more than is neccessary for your fun!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
I've never had a problem with a tuk tuk driver in all my years here and I'm a cheap charlie so I always negotiate the minimal price I can. Once it's agreed on it's as good as cast in stone! I got a Tuk Tuk from Sukumvit to Banglampoo, which is quite a trek. Only cost 20B as the guy said he wanted me to go into a gem store and look around so he could get a 5 litre fuel voucher. No strings attached and I walked through the door to the sales floor and out the door on the opposite side where there was a fridge full of Chang waiting for me.

I took a beer and asked the bored looking girl who was reading a book behind the counter "How much?" and she said "it's free!" So I sat there and drank 2 Changs while my tuk tuk driver waited outside. Upon my return he looked happy about the waiting and took me to where I wanted to go for the agreed 20B fee. I forgot to mention there were 4 of us so it was 5B each. We didn't buy anything!

Going to court because you hit a Tuk Tuk driver is rediculous. Even if you end up in the police station agree to drop the charges if he does and pay the 100B admin fee which the tuk tuk driver will also have to pay. Then walk away!

Absolutely right to drop the charges but you forgot get your value for money by giving the scum bag a good kicking first and for those of you scared of the Thai boys brigade I have been in a fight with a Taxi driver in Bangkok (I am not proud about it) the incident started when he wouldnt drive me home because it was raining and he wanted short distance fares instead and I 'accidentally 'spilt some of my beer on him. He started kicking and slapping me outside the taxi and after a few kicks I kicked him in the nuts, once only but it was worth it to see him crumple onto the ground. After that I walked away and there were no repercussions. I don't recommend this kind of behaviour but I do worry about how frightened some of you seem about these small Thai people.

Link to post
Share on other sites
<snip>

I do worry about how frightened some of you seem about these small Thai people.

It's not the small Thai person that we're worried about - it's the 5 or 10 of his mates who come out of nowhere to join him that's the worry.

Anyway, nice to see the police, yet again, taking care of their paymasters. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...