Red-Shirts Blamed For Gunfights, Bomb Attacks

[kraxlhuber]

4 soldiers dead and hundreds wounded....

If thailand had a professional police, with anti riot force to front the insurgents, special forces to quickly and clean arrest the red leaders, they had no needs for the intervention of the Thai Army.

But cops are too busy to count the baht made with their corrupted activities and to scared to face to face a mob.

Excellent post.

Thai army is probably the worst in the world in anyway. The weakest / spent money. They lost against Laos and they'd lose against Cambodia.

Abisith is also 100% responsible for the yesterday drama. He never tried to understand the other opinions. Friday, Thai police and Thai army tried to solve the issue in a Thai way but at 10 PM, Abisith put some oil on the fire.

Thai regular armed forces,marine,airforce,what can they be proud of?

Now a lot of you guys are gonna be pissed off,its intended to be contraversial,therefore I live,(or was it something else that way)

The Thais never can start a war on their own against any forces,foreign or national.

They did a bad job by assisting and fighting alongside the US forces in Vietnam,Laos and Cambodia.

These countrys didnt do anything against Thailand,but having been bombed into oblivion from B52.s based in Thailand,and some with Thai crew.

Thais are not fighters by themselves,a wolfspack to tear another apart.

Thai soldiers are mainly conscript such as the GI were in Vietnam.

Now the US armed forces are a voluntary force,paid mercenaries,hired to kill.

They know what the score is.

The poor thai soldiers have to die now because some politicians cannot think straight, and have their own agendas.

[Throatwobbler]

Indeed the actual snipers have not been seen. The forum members think these clowns in black actually are the snipers. Sorry to burst their bubble, but those lads would not be in any uniform and would just simply blend into the crowd.

I admire your courage, calling these Red-Shirt-supporting people who are armed & clearly happy to use their weapons, "clowns in black".

Isn't the point of snipers not to be seen? Surely the whole point of that there have been no photos of people with sniper rifles means they were quite good at their job. Who's side they were on we can disagree about.

But surely some of these photos show that the red being peaceful group is a total fallacy. And by that I not only mean photos of armed "men in black", but other photos of reds attacking army guys with clubs, spears etc. I seem to remember Thaksin comparing himself to Ghandi. I don't think any red supporter can now defend that claim.

[Throatwobbler]

It is not hard to hit man-sized target at 100m with a scope for a proficient marksman.

The statement is simply ridiculous.

It is very easy for anybody to hit a man-sized target at 100 meters with any kind of assault rifle which has decent iron sights.

When I was at the Army (20 years ago), the standard training shooting distance was 200m, and we used the FAMAS with standard iron sights.

Our targets were not man sized, but triangle-shaped, approx. 30cm large.

Almost everybody in my group hit the targets.

Moving targets are of course something totally different.

The thing is you are quoting from experience of using weapons. Most other people seem to like to use Wiki or anecdotes. I have never been trained to fire a weapon so I can not comment and I wish most of the other so called experts, who do not have professional training, would stop commenting as well.

It would be nice to think, that for one, if people did not know then they would be quiet. Of course this will not happen on here, because if you believe some of the posters, they Know everything.

So how about it guys do we think we can do this.

Probably not.

[britmaveric]

^not easy considering the conditions that night and remember if every soldier was a sniper it would not be a highly skilled specialty. If I recall think 1.5miles or so is the record by a Canadian soldier not too long ago.

[Slip]

^^Who did he kill?

[britmaveric]

AQ/Taliban in afghanistan, must admit I kind of admire a skill like that - hitting smth so far way. Pretty Amazing.

[JohnLeech]

Last time I tried a Mini-M14 with a good scope and hot rounds,

I was hitting a 1/2 inch target at 400m consistently in light winds. /quote]

If by a "1/2 inch target" you mean a target half an inch large, then you should have competed in the Olympic games as you would have destroyed any opposition. A half-inch group at 400 metres even with a good conventional sniper rifle and the appropriate ammuniton would put both you and the weapon amongst the best; with a Mini-M14, even with a target barrel, you would, quite simply, be doing the impossible.

If you mean a half-scale target that is a different matter, although it would still be pushing the Ruger beyond its limits.

You have, metaphorically speaking, shot yourself in the foot.

[JohnLeech]

.....according to the autopsy most of the dead were shot expertly in the head or chest/heart region.....

An autopsy cannot determine if a shot was "expert" or lucky - just the type of weapon, likely range, etc.

If out of the 800+ casualties say (for the sake of argument) that 200 were small arms injuries (shot), then if 20 were shot "in the head or chest/heart region" and killed, that does not indicate snipers or expert shooting; 10:1 is no more than an average injury:fatality ratio in any armed engagement.

[JohnLeech]

...I wish most of the other so called experts, who do not have professional training, would stop commenting as well.

It would be nice to think, that for one, if people did not know then they would be quiet. Of course this will not happen on here,...

Of course not. As Winston Churchill should have said, never has so much bullshit been written by so many and believed by so few.

A few too many re-runs of "Company Leader to Raven. Company Leader to Raven. Can you hear me, Johnny?" by some of Seafood's friends!

[animatic]

Last time I tried a Mini-M14 with a good scope and hot rounds,

I was hitting a 1/2 inch target at 400m consistently in light winds.

If by a "1/2 inch target" you mean a target half an inch large, then you should have competed in the Olympic games as you would have destroyed any opposition. A half-inch group at 400 metres even with a good conventional sniper rifle and the appropriate ammuniton would put both you and the weapon amongst the best; with a Mini-M14, even with a target barrel, you would, quite simply, be doing the impossible.

If you mean a half-scale target that is a different matter, although it would still be pushing the Ruger beyond its limits.

You have, metaphorically speaking, shot yourself in the foot.

My friend was a Viet Nam era US Marine sharpshooter trainer, and went in country, he set up the weapon.

Loaded the shells himself. What he did to set it up I do not know. But it was a superb unit.

We were shooting at the lead counter weight of a dactyl reading lamp at 400m, and hitting it.

Mostly because hitting the targets got boring. Believe it or not, I don't care.

It was an excellent weapon and I am not a bad shot.

Another friend I used to shoot with was sent in early via rubber raft to Kuwait as a sniper in DS1,

I could out shoot him, back in the day. I was just the wrong age for either conflict.

He once took a moose from his toilet with a 30-06, before zipping up, in season of course.

[iwad2010]

4 soldiers dead and hundreds wounded....

If thailand had a professional police, with anti riot force to front the insurgents, special forces to quickly and clean arrest the red leaders, they had no needs for the intervention of the Thai Army.

But cops are too busy to count the baht made with their corrupted activities and to scared to face to face a mob.

Excellent post.

Thai army is probably the worst in the world in anyway. The weakest / spent money. They lost against Laos and they'd lose against Cambodia.

Abisith is also 100% responsible for the yesterday drama. He never tried to understand the other opinions. Friday, Thai police and Thai army tried to solve the issue in a Thai way but at 10 PM, Abisith put some oil on the fire.

I don't think you understand the other opinions.

The red shirts want power. They don't want to change anything else.

The army are poor. Too many Generals poking there snouts in the trough.

Thailand needs a seperation of power. If this was the case; there wouldn't have been so many coups in the land of smiles.

[elkangorito]

The 'generals' are only following orders.

Have a nice one

[hanuman1]

A couple of new reports:

1) Seems like an explanation of who that guy in the balaclava carrying a load of guns around among red shirts was:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...n-30127201.html

2) An analysis of the split within the army

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/id...0100413?sp=true

[CrossBones]

Well I have much respect for the army in the way they handle this.

I can not think of any other country in the world where the police or army would be so patient!

In any western country.. protesters throw bombs as soldiers.... protesters all get massacred.

There is no other country in Asia where the protesters would be tolerated like this, and I cant think of any Western countries either.

Try to protest in a major intersection in the USA peacefully and see what happens to to... let alone bombs, explosives and people inciting anarchy.

There is some democracy in Thailand.

[hanuman1]

Well I have much respect for the army in the way they handle this.

I can not think of any other country in the world where the police or army would be so patient!

In any western country.. protesters throw bombs as soldiers.... protesters all get massacred.

There is no other country in Asia where the protesters would be tolerated like this, and I cant think of any Western countries either.

Try to protest in a major intersection in the USA peacefully and see what happens to to... let alone bombs, explosives and people inciting anarchy.

There is some democracy in Thailand.

With respect, it's got nothing to do with patience. Nobody's doing anyone else any favors here. The army's 'patience' here derives from an awareness within the ranks that it is split. It is therefore hesitant. Similarly, I've heard people going on about how 'patient' the red-leaning government was with the yellows when they took over the airport. Rubbish. The army simply didn't want to do anything.

There's never been any patience involved in Thai politics or military shenanigans. To believe that is to dignify the constant power struggles that keep happening mainly within the army and to a lesser but more publicized extent in Thai politics.

[imafaranggetmeoutofhere]

Military admits firing at reds

Only single shots fired to minimise casualties

Published: 15/04/2010 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

http://bangkokpost.com/news/local/36079/mi...-firing-at-reds

Some soldiers fired live rounds at red shirt demonstrators to provide cover for injured comrades as they were retreating during Saturday's clashes, a spokesman for the Centre for Public Administration in Emergency Situations says.

Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said yestersday the soldiers had no choice but to open fire at terrorists hiding among demonstrators to protect their colleagues. They were ready to testify before the committee investigating the clashes.

The CPAES released its comments as public suspicions grow over the use of violence by government forces during the April 10 violence. Video footage, including news coverage by foreign media outlets, shows pictures of soldiers firing automatic guns in the direction of red shirt protesters.

Col Sansern told a news conference yesterday soldiers only fired live rounds for two reasons. First, they fired into the air to intimidate demonstrators, and then at advancing crowds to protect the lives of wounded comrades. They fired only one bullet at a time and did not switch to fully automatic to avoid causing more casualties, he said.

The CPAES showed reporters five video clips of Saturday's clashes. One of the clips showed soldiers firing at demonstrators. According to Col Sansern, the soldiers were protecting the injured as they were retreating from the area.

In another clip, a red shirt demonstrator was shot in the head from behind. Col Sansern said judging from the direction, it meant the man was not shot by a soldier.

Other clips include the accounts of red shirt protesters saying they saw a man wearing a blue shirt firing some kind of explosive from a rooftop of a building; another red shirt protester asks, ''Has Seh Daeng [Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol] come to help us?''; and footage of red shirt protesters attacking authorities and blocking a vehicle carrying the injured to hospital.

Col Sansern said judging from the five video clips he did not believe red shirt leaders were unaware there was a group of terrorists among the demonstrators.

Meanwhile, Maj Gen Khattiya, an army specialist who supports the red shirts, claimed armed militants he called ''Ronin warriors'' fired weapons at soldiers after soldiers fired M16 rifles at red shirt demonstrators first.

He said he believed those firing the M16 rifles were army snipers. They fired from the rooftops of high buildings in the area.

''Ronin warriors'', originally called ''King Taksin's warriors'' when set up by the red shirt movement after the 2006 coup, were trained by Seh Daeng until he stopped when ordered by the army.

Meanwhile, Bangkok Emergency Medical Service's Erawan Centre yesterday confirmed two more deaths from the April 10 clash, bringing the number of fatalities to 23. The two latest victims are Pvt Anupol Hommalee, 29, and Napaton Paopanas, a 30-year-old civilian.

Pvt Anupol succumbed to shrapnel wounds to his head, while Napaton died from a gunshot wound to his abdomen.

The centre reported 195 injured civilians and soldiers are still in hospital, with 14 in a serious condition.

[JohnLeech]

...

If by a "1/2 inch target" you mean a target half an inch large, then you should have competed in the Olympic games as you would have destroyed any opposition. A half-inch group at 400 metres even with a good conventional sniper rifle and the appropriate ammuniton would put both you and the weapon amongst the best; with a Mini-M14, even with a target barrel, you would, quite simply, be doing the impossible....You have, metaphorically speaking, shot yourself in the foot.

We were shooting at the lead counter weight of a dactyl reading lamp at 400m, and hitting it. ... Believe it or not, I don't care.

It was an excellent weapon and I am not a bad shot.

In a thread of wannabee experts, this is probably the most outrageous claim made so far and illustrates just how large a grain of salt needs to be taken with some of the posts on this topic.

I am not questioning your ability as a marksman (much!), but this sort of shooting is simply impossible with a weapon of that type - it is not just a question of the load or the firer, as you seem to imagine, but of the limitations of the weapon itself, particularly rifling and barrel length.

Although I have never enjoyed competition shooting as I see it simply as a means to an end (training for operational shooting), I have been a range umpire and shot with reasonable success at a number of international meetings including ones in Brunei (Tutong), Hong Kong, Australia (Townsville), Oman (Muscat) and in the UK at Bisley (RASAAM) where the competition included most of the world's top military shots (including the USA's). A half-inch group at 400 metres would have been beyond the capability of those competing with standard military rifles, even using green-spot ammunition, except for those using sniper rifles, and of those only a very few would have been capable of such a group.

My apologies if this seems unnecessarily harsh or "immoderate", but while some of those posting here are very probably what they claim to be, others are simply living in a world of their own and this should be made clear; anyone doubting this has only to look at any of the published results of range meetings (including the olympics) to verify this beyond any possible doubt.

[TAWP]

I competed for some years with a Mauser 6.5mm, 300m and field-shooting (200m-600m unmarked), and putting a hole-in-hole-grouping at 300m was something that occurred (chance ofc). And 10^1 shots was done a lot by the top shooters.

What kind of rifle are you talking about here that couldn't possibly hit a half-inch target at 400m? An assault rifle? I don't think Animatic was talking about one? My guess is he is referring to a bolt action rifle

[animatic]

I repeat again;

This was a modified weapon from a serious gunsmith, Nam era, sniper,

who did all his own weapons. It was not a stock soldiers mini M-14, and I don't know what he did to it.

I was honored to be allowed to fire it for several clips, and his comment was "I hit want I aim at."

He 'worked with SEALS', so I have no doubts he was a bad dude in country, back in the day.

I also saw him shoot and it was astounding.

He had a stock one and I got to go Rock n Roll 2 clips in it.

Not everyone gets fully automatic licenses in this area either.

He said he never goes RnR with the other one, because "it is too finely tuned".

So take it or leave it.

Edited April 16, 2010 by animatic

[JohnLeech]

I competed for some years with a Mauser 6.5mm, 300m and field-shooting (200m-600m unmarked), and putting a hole-in-hole-grouping at 300m was something that occurred (chance ofc). And 10^1 shots was done a lot by the top shooters.

What kind of rifle are you talking about here that couldn't possibly hit a half-inch target at 400m? An assault rifle? I don't think Animatic was talking about one? My guess is he is referring to a bolt action rifle

Sorry, TAWP, but you're guessing wrong. I would agree that something like a Mauser 6.5, in the hands of any reasonable shot, should have no problem hitting a half-inch target at 400m, but what he was talking about was a Mini M-14, which is a short-barreled carbine made for use by the police to bridge the gap between an assault rifle and a handgun, and for shooting small game at relatively short range (or "plinking" at cans in the woods). It is not used by any military forces, to the best of my knowledge.

It now appears that it was "a modified weapon from a serious gunsmith", which was anything but the details first posted, but such shooting would simply not be possible given the weapon's barrel length and rifling.

I, too, have "worked with SEALS". They swim, make a lot of noise, and love applauding themselves.

I think I'll leave it.

[TAWP]

JohnLeech>> Read the reply before yours. Your guess is partly wrong, it was a customized version of the weapon. How anything is possible given you don't know the specs of the unit becomes more if a pissing match than an arguments over facts.

Edited April 17, 2010 by TAWP

[JohnLeech]

JohnLeech>> Read the reply before yours. Your guess is partly wrong, it was a customized version of the weapon. How anything is possible given you don't know the specs of the unit becomes more if a pissing match than an arguments over facts.

I did, TAWP, as that was the first time animatic mentioned the weapon being customised, and I am not making a "guess". The Ruger simply cannot be that accurate at that range even with their own competition barrel, which is considerably longer and with much tighter rifling; it simply is not made to shoot to that level, regardless of the firer's ability, and any such modification would, in any case, be immediately obvious as the extra barrel length makes it look like a wierd "Buntline special" so anyone using it could not fail to "know what he did to it". 300 metres is the key range for most modern military rifles (SA 80, SAR, TAR, Steyr, etc), due to the limited barrel length, and that extra 100 metres out to 400 does make a big difference to accuracy and the Ruger is limited by an even shorter barrel.

As you say, though, this has become a pointless pissing match of the type I avoid at all costs in the real world (there are enough bullshitters of this type in Thailand's bars to make up a small - or possibly even a large - army), so I will leave it at that. Anyone who knows anything about shooting can make up their own minds, as they probably already have.

[Maestro]

Five Subcommittees Set Up to Investigate the April 10 Incident

The Government has set up five subcommittees to investigate the April 10 incident during violent clashes between anti-government protestors and security forces in Bangkok. Results of the investigation will be submitted to the Prime Minister and publicized to provide factual information to the general public.

The issue was discussed at a meeting of the committee assigned to compile news and information on the incidents. The meeting, chaired by the Permanent Secretary of the Prime Minister’s Office, Mr. Jaturong Panyadilok, took place at the Government Public Relations Department (PRD) on 22 April 2010. Representatives from various television stations also joined the committee to gather and compile facts on the incident. The committee, with the PRD Director-General as spokesman, will listen to the views of all people witnessing the incident and impacts from the incident will be taken into consideration.

The five subcommittees are chaired by the Permanent Secretary for Information and Communication Technology, the Permanent Secretary for Justice, the Secretary-General of the Office of the National Economic and Social Development Board, a Deputy Permanent Secretary of the Prime Minister’s Office, and the PRD Director-General.

A total of 25 people – 20 civilians and five soldiers – were killed in the April 10 clashes, and 839 persons were injured. In the initial stage, the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security had provided financial assistance to the families of the victims. The Cabinet, during its meeting on April 20 approved a budget of 19.75 million baht to help those affected by the incident.

Referring to the April 10 outbreak, Prime Minister Abhisit observed that prior to the clashes, there had been attempts to incite hatred and misunderstanding. For instance, old doctored sound clips of the Prime Minister were played to make people believe that he intended to harm them during the events of April 2009; the sound clips have been scientifically proven to be fabricated. Another attempt involved the constant incitement by protest leaders and the attacks by individuals clad in black, leading to deaths on April 10. All these acts combined reflected behaviors which could constitute terrorist acts, making it necessary for the Government to adjust the organizational structure of the Center for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation to deal with them.

Noting that the Thai society regrets the loss of life on that day, the Prime Minister stressed his wish to see truth come out. He expressed his belief that the military officers had conducted their operations with professionalism and abided by international standards, for, had they not done so, they might not have suffered such losses themselves. He therefore asked the public to be open-minded in examining the facts.

In response to the question whether there would be an effort to stop the red shirt protesters from distributing CDs of their own version of the clashes, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said that there is no need for that as the people are fully aware of what really happened on April 10.

-- The Government Public Relations Department

Link: thailand.prd.go.th/view_inside.php?id=4951

[pornsasi]

Five Subcommittees Set Up to Investigate the April 10 Incident

The Government has set up five subcommittees to investigate the April 10 incident during violent clashes between anti-government protestors and security forces in Bangkok. Results of the investigation will be submitted to the Prime Minister and publicized to provide factual information to the general public.

The issue was discussed at a meeting of the committee assigned to compile news and information on the incidents. The meeting, chaired by the Permanent Secretary of the Prime Minister's Office, Mr. Jaturong Panyadilok, took place at the Government Public Relations Department (PRD) on 22 April 2010. Representatives from various television stations also joined the committee to gather and compile facts on the incident. The committee, with the PRD Director-General as spokesman, will listen to the views of all people witnessing the incident and impacts from the incident will be taken into consideration.

The five subcommittees are chaired by the Permanent Secretary for Information and Communication Technology, the Permanent Secretary for Justice, the Secretary-General of the Office of the National Economic and Social Development Board, a Deputy Permanent Secretary of the Prime Minister's Office, and the PRD Director-General.

A total of 25 people – 20 civilians and five soldiers – were killed in the April 10 clashes, and 839 persons were injured. In the initial stage, the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security had provided financial assistance to the families of the victims. The Cabinet, during its meeting on April 20 approved a budget of 19.75 million baht to help those affected by the incident.

Referring to the April 10 outbreak, Prime Minister Abhisit observed that prior to the clashes, there had been attempts to incite hatred and misunderstanding. For instance, old doctored sound clips of the Prime Minister were played to make people believe that he intended to harm them during the events of April 2009; the sound clips have been scientifically proven to be fabricated. Another attempt involved the constant incitement by protest leaders and the attacks by individuals clad in black, leading to deaths on April 10. All these acts combined reflected behaviors which could constitute terrorist acts, making it necessary for the Government to adjust the organizational structure of the Center for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation to deal with them.

Noting that the Thai society regrets the loss of life on that day, the Prime Minister stressed his wish to see truth come out. He expressed his belief that the military officers had conducted their operations with professionalism and abided by international standards, for, had they not done so, they might not have suffered such losses themselves. He therefore asked the public to be open-minded in examining the facts.

In response to the question whether there would be an effort to stop the red shirt protesters from distributing CDs of their own version of the clashes, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said that there is no need for that as the people are fully aware of what really happened on April 10.

-- The Government Public Relations Department

Link: thailand.prd.go.th/view_inside.php?id=4951

If the government is investigating itself then am confident the truth will emerge

[pornsasi]

Military admits firing at reds

Only single shots fired to minimise casualties

Published: 15/04/2010 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

http://bangkokpost.com/news/local/36079/mi...-firing-at-reds

Some soldiers fired live rounds at red shirt demonstrators to provide cover for injured comrades as they were retreating during Saturday's clashes, a spokesman for the Centre for Public Administration in Emergency Situations says.

Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said yestersday the soldiers had no choice but to open fire at terrorists hiding among demonstrators to protect their colleagues. They were ready to testify before the committee investigating the clashes.

The CPAES released its comments as public suspicions grow over the use of violence by government forces during the April 10 violence. Video footage, including news coverage by foreign media outlets, shows pictures of soldiers firing automatic guns in the direction of red shirt protesters.

Col Sansern told a news conference yesterday soldiers only fired live rounds for two reasons. First, they fired into the air to intimidate demonstrators, and then at advancing crowds to protect the lives of wounded comrades. They fired only one bullet at a time and did not switch to fully automatic to avoid causing more casualties, he said.

The CPAES showed reporters five video clips of Saturday's clashes. One of the clips showed soldiers firing at demonstrators. According to Col Sansern, the soldiers were protecting the injured as they were retreating from the area.

In another clip, a red shirt demonstrator was shot in the head from behind. Col Sansern said judging from the direction, it meant the man was not shot by a soldier.

Other clips include the accounts of red shirt protesters saying they saw a man wearing a blue shirt firing some kind of explosive from a rooftop of a building; another red shirt protester asks, ''Has Seh Daeng [Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol] come to help us?''; and footage of red shirt protesters attacking authorities and blocking a vehicle carrying the injured to hospital.

Col Sansern said judging from the five video clips he did not believe red shirt leaders were unaware there was a group of terrorists among the demonstrators.

Meanwhile, Maj Gen Khattiya, an army specialist who supports the red shirts, claimed armed militants he called ''Ronin warriors'' fired weapons at soldiers after soldiers fired M16 rifles at red shirt demonstrators first.

He said he believed those firing the M16 rifles were army snipers. They fired from the rooftops of high buildings in the area.

''Ronin warriors'', originally called ''King Taksin's warriors'' when set up by the red shirt movement after the 2006 coup, were trained by Seh Daeng until he stopped when ordered by the army.

Meanwhile, Bangkok Emergency Medical Service's Erawan Centre yesterday confirmed two more deaths from the April 10 clash, bringing the number of fatalities to 23. The two latest victims are Pvt Anupol Hommalee, 29, and Napaton Paopanas, a 30-year-old civilian.

Pvt Anupol succumbed to shrapnel wounds to his head, while Napaton died from a gunshot wound to his abdomen.

The centre reported 195 injured civilians and soldiers are still in hospital, with 14 in a serious condition.

Every soldier shot in single shot mode at protesters 20 times .

They fired only burst in the air but missed .

Am relieved now

[pornsasi]

Well I have much respect for the army in the way they handle this.

I can not think of any other country in the world where the police or army would be so patient!

In any western country.. protesters throw bombs as soldiers.... protesters all get massacred.

There is no other country in Asia where the protesters would be tolerated like this, and I cant think of any Western countries either.

Try to protest in a major intersection in the USA peacefully and see what happens to to... let alone bombs, explosives and people inciting anarchy.

There is some democracy in Thailand.

With respect, it's got nothing to do with patience. Nobody's doing anyone else any favors here. The army's 'patience' here derives from an awareness within the ranks that it is split. It is therefore hesitant. Similarly, I've heard people going on about how 'patient' the red-leaning government was with the yellows when they took over the airport. Rubbish. The army simply didn't want to do anything.

There's never been any patience involved in Thai politics or military shenanigans. To believe that is to dignify the constant power struggles that keep happening mainly within the army and to a lesser but more publicized extent in Thai politics.

Exactly right

[fxe1200]

Goddamn, if the Reds just would have accepted the 6 month period for new elections, than both sides would be able to prepare for this event decently, and all the stupid fuzz would have come to an end, and these endless discussions would have become obsolete.

But as the American say: "Money talks and bullshit walks." Maybe this statement fits here. Who knows? I don't.