Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[rabo]

I don't know what happened, but for a short period I couldn't access thaivisa.com because of this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/404.0.html

Everytime I clicked something on Thai visa I was getting this message. What was going on???

Anyhow. Any more casualties by now???

I was getting the same message it was as if TV was beng hijacked ?? by a Sponser ??

BT

No, 404 is the standard code for "web page not found" used everywhere. If the mods are cleaning up links or renaming pages this will happen. I get the sense the mods are hard a work today. More power to them, they do a very good job.

[samjaidee]

Firstly, I'm neither red nor yellow nor any other colour for that matter, I'm just curious.

Many people on ThaiVisa refer to the reds an being controlled by Thaksin. Someone just now used the word Thaksinista.

From what I understand, these protesters/insurgents,terrorists, whatever takes your fancy, were historically Thaksin supporters when he was in government. Does being a supporter of someone automatically mean that you are controlled by them?

I no longer live in Thailand but follow the news, albeit mostly "headline news" about what's happening there and I don't remember seeing anywhere a piece of evidence that Thaksin is the person controlling the red's actions.

Why would he? Could he ever make a triumphant return to govern Thailand?

I genuinely look forward some of your answers. Educate me please.

[OzMick]

Am utterly appalled at the reds. They had such sympathy a month and a half ago, now they are just a bunch of criminals working for their master Thaksin to the detriment of the entire nation. Disgusting.

OK. However, I can't understand any civilized person having any sympathy for them at all after Pattaya Asean and Black Songkran.

The only ones that have sympathy for them are the reds themselves - like their fan club here - time for negotiation is over and I hope the government realizes that the only way to win this is to go full out and destroy them once and for all

Maybe you should study the situation a bit more. The majority of the Thai population supports the "red shirts". Let me say it again...the majority. That means over 50% of the population. Maybe you have not been out of the large tourist cities and into the rural areas where the majority of the Thai population lives.

It may appear that way from California, here the view is quite a bit different. I refer you to my post directly after yours. I spent Saung Kran in the far NE, travelling by road. There is NO overt support for the red cause, and in the village in which I stayed, residents had been coerced to give financial support, with the promise of B100,000 WHEN THAKSIN WAS RETURNED TO POWER. Everything else is smoke and mirrors; there is ONLY ONE AIM.

[aaacorp]

Well, believe it or not but even if the reds loose the battle today, this will change the futur of the Kingdom.

Now the entire country is politicaly awaken, so even if the elections are in 2 years, the yellow are sure to loose. The fact is that reds are surely manipulated, surely they have been paid for that. But it's also a part of the politic game to try to convince them to refuse the easy money. But how to convince them as corruption is the national game. How to say to the poor to refuse the money and see the politicals, the police, the army take tea money?

[hughbk]

AT 16.15 HEAVY FIGHTING ON RAMA 4, LIVE BULLETS USED AFTER REDS PROVOKED ARMY AND SHOT ROCKETS, BURNED TYRES, ONE BOY SHOT IN SHOULDER!

[neverdie]

As for the FARANG tourists that you seem to dislike so much- they prop up the economy in this country, without them the economy will crash imo.

You seem to thing that Tourism is the main source of income for thais. Its not. Remove yourself from Tourist Thailand and go check the rest of it out......tourist schmourist.

[dobadoy]

AT 16.15 HEAVY FIGHTING ON RAMA 4, LIVE BULLETS USED AFTER REDS PROVOKED ARMY AND SHOT ROCKETS, BURNED TYRES, ONE BOY SHOT IN SHOULDER!

And what on earth is he and the others in that photo doing there in the middle of a security operation, if not to attack security forces?

No sympathy here. Go home and you won't get hurt.

[Capealava]

Soon we will have UDD protesters in every part of Thailand, not only Ratchaprasong and Silom.

By protesters do you mean armed insurgents?

So thats every single red or just the hardcore ones like yellows, muslims, yanks etc etc

I am not a red nor yellow just a simple farang that lives in bangkok btw. I cant choose a colour as its not my business.

This is a terrible time for all thais and maybe farang thai wannabees jingthing

Good post. Lots of blood thirsty Farangs here I see

[wlcart]

there is no need for "negotiations" with these war mongers at this point, round them up and punish them. they are keen on burning buses and inciting violence.

when I passed through the area about 1:00 pm I could feel the tension in the air. happy I got outta there in time before it really started up. Man oh man are the supporters just a bunch of filthy scrubs. you have to seem 'em and then you can't deny.

What a fool you really are for going through that area today.

Another silly farang.

Im just waiting for pictures of drunk ones mingling with the reds and making us all look very stupid indeed.

I happen to live in the area, and I see a lot of silly Thai's out there too!

[ChiangMaiFun]

It may appear that way from California, here the view is quite a bit different. I refer you to my post directly after yours. I spent Saung Kran in the far NE, travelling by road. There is NO overt support for the red cause, and in the village in which I stayed, residents had been coerced to give financial support, with the promise of B100,000 WHEN THAKSIN WAS RETURNED TO POWER. Everything else is smoke and mirrors; there is ONLY ONE AIM.

Please don't believe this rubbish - I would say nearly half the country (we don't know until elections for sure) are probably red - disgusted that they have a government with no mandate and want one simple thing - a chance to VOTE.

[h90]

As for the FARANG tourists that you seem to dislike so much- they prop up the economy in this country, without them the economy will crash imo.

You seem to thing that Tourism is the main source of income for thais. Its not. Remove yourself from Tourist Thailand and go check the rest of it out......tourist schmourist.

6-7 % they estimate, not sure if that includes all the sextourists tax free spendings.

6-7 % is a lot but not the main source, as well the southern Tourism will not be full effected.

If tourism drops to half than it is less than the estimated economic grow.

That does not kill the economic, but of course damage it.

[chadintheusa]

Firstly, I'm neither red nor yellow nor any other colour for that matter, I'm just curious.

Many people on ThaiVisa refer to the reds an being controlled by Thaksin. Someone just now used the word Thaksinista.

From what I understand, these protesters/insurgents,terrorists, whatever takes your fancy, were historically Thaksin supporters when he was in government. Does being a supporter of someone automatically mean that you are controlled by them?

I no longer live in Thailand but follow the news, albeit mostly "headline news" about what's happening there and I don't remember seeing anywhere a piece of evidence that Thaksin is the person controlling the red's actions.

Why would he? Could he ever make a triumphant return to govern Thailand?

I genuinely look forward some of your answers. Educate me please.

Seh Daeng and other leaders have claimed to receive orders directly from Thaksin and follow them without question.

[Jingthing]

Your lovely peace loving reds could have had an election in November, nooooooooooooo, that wasn't good enough for them. Nobody is fooled by this. What they want is a total takeover of Thailand and to change the government structure entirely to create a dictatorship for the Thaksin power forces.

[bushke]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

[Jingthing]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

[jdinasia]

Am utterly appalled at the reds. They had such sympathy a month and a half ago, now they are just a bunch of criminals working for their master Thaksin to the detriment of the entire nation. Disgusting.

OK. However, I can't understand any civilized person having any sympathy for them at all after Pattaya Asean and Black Songkran.

The only ones that have sympathy for them are the reds themselves - like their fan club here - time for negotiation is over and I hope the government realizes that the only way to win this is to go full out and destroy them once and for all

Maybe you should study the situation a bit more. The majority of the Thai population supports the "red shirts". Let me say it again...the majority. That means over 50% of the population. Maybe you have not been out of the large tourist cities and into the rural areas where the majority of the Thai population lives.

Huh?

Apparently YOU haven't been out of whatever small rural area you live in. The MAJORITY does not in fact support the reds at all. That means less than 50% of the population does not support the reds and fewer every day. In a recent poll conducted in Isaan about 50% supported immediate house dissolution and 50% were opposed. That is in the heart of the area that the reds claim support them. You add in the South. The West. Central Thailand and you get FAR less than 50%. The 2007 elections showed more individual support for the Democrats that the Thaksin backed PPP. Since Newin and others left the Thaksin backed coalition it means that more than 50% of the elected MP's back the PTP.

Your claim is not upheld by ANY fact.

[Explorer]

water canon will be like songkran in May

[dobadoy]

As for the FARANG tourists that you seem to dislike so much- they prop up the economy in this country, without them the economy will crash imo.

You seem to thing that Tourism is the main source of income for thais. Its not. Remove yourself from Tourist Thailand and go check the rest of it out......tourist schmourist.

Try to think past sexpats going to Pattaya, tourists come from all over the world, go to all parts of the country, and come for all sorts of reasons (e.g., medical tourists).

Tourism and industries supporting tourism and the money from it account for a significant part of the Thai economy. The knock on effect of reduced tourism in supporting industries is potentially devastating, from the guy who sells diesel to people running the laundry service to those that fit mosquito screens in serviced apartments. It effects everyone.

[hughbk]

As for the FARANG tourists that you seem to dislike so much- they prop up the economy in this country, without them the economy will crash imo.

You seem to thing that Tourism is the main source of income for thais. Its not. Remove yourself from Tourist Thailand and go check the rest of it out......tourist schmourist.

[spud1]

there is no need for "negotiations" with these war mongers at this point, round them up and punish them. they are keen on burning buses and inciting violence.

when I passed through the area about 1:00 pm I could feel the tension in the air. happy I got outta there in time before it really started up. Man oh man are the supporters just a bunch of filthy scrubs. you have to seem 'em and then you can't deny.

What a fool you really are for going through that area today.

Another silly farang.

Im just waiting for pictures of drunk ones mingling with the reds and making us all look very stupid indeed.

I happen to live in the area, and I see a lot of silly Thai's out there too!

Yes,there known has red shirts.

[Jingthing]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

[chadintheusa]

AT 16.15 HEAVY FIGHTING ON RAMA 4, LIVE BULLETS USED AFTER REDS PROVOKED ARMY AND SHOT ROCKETS, BURNED TYRES, ONE BOY SHOT IN SHOULDER!

And what on earth is he and the others in that photo doing there in the middle of a security operation, if not to attack security forces?

No sympathy here. Go home and you won't get hurt.

It has been nearly 24 hours since the crackdown started, anyone foolish enough to still be on those streets is putting themselves in jeopardy. Things will only get worse in the coming hours as reds use darkness for cover to launch attacks.

[Jingthing]

MCOTEnglishnews: Red Shirt leaders urge government to revoke Emergency Decree, PM to resign; Clashes at Bon Kai, Sala Daeng intersections continue

Are their leaders INSANE? Why would the government lift the emergency when the red insurgent army is throwing MOLOTOV COCKTAILS at Thai soldiers?

[dobadoy]

Maybe you should study the situation a bit more. The majority of the Thai population supports the "red shirts". Let me say it again...the majority. That means over 50% of the population. Maybe you have not been out of the large tourist cities and into the rural areas where the majority of the Thai population lives.

A proportion of the people in not more than 15 provinces are Thaskinites. The other 51 provinces couldn't care less about him or the UDD's war. If they had, they would have filled Rajarpasong to bursting point weeks ago.

The million man march never happened, some people seem to forget that...

[ScouseTommy]

As for the FARANG tourists that you seem to dislike so much- they prop up the economy in this country, without them the economy will crash imo.

You seem to thing that Tourism is the main source of income for thais. Its not. Remove yourself from Tourist Thailand and go check the rest of it out......tourist schmourist.

As i stated above i have and still do get out and see Thailand, as for tourist area's - i don't live in one. Do you understand anything about economics? Because if your capital city and economic centre crashes so does the country, who do you think will suffer most if that happens??? The elite and the army, NO it will be the poor people of rural thailand who suffer first and suffer the most. Tourism brings a huge amount of money into the Thai economy, NOTICE i use the word ECONOMY, because without an economy the country will fail not just Bangkok. Check the official government figures, they are online, even from Thaksins time. If the tourists go, the Farang that live here wont be far behind, is that what you want???? No one but thai's in thailand? "we all hate tourists and farang"???? Sounds very much like the point of view an Austrian bloke had in 1939!!. If you'd actually read my post you'd know a lot of my friends are very poor and NOT from tourist Thailand, they dont support the reds at all, are they all wrong??? Will you kick them out of thailand with the farang and tourists if you get your way?????

Rant over...

[toenail]

One of the best things Thailand could do with their education system is start teaching "civics" in their classes so when the young adults begin to vote, they will know how the system works-that you just don't go to the capital city as a mob and take over an airport, government gounds, or the business center (hospitals included) to get your way. there is a certain procedure to follow and you can't keep re-writing the "rules". Next, (a no brainer) give more attention to the north and Isaan with better schools, and subsidies for the farmers. And in the city, up the minimum wage and limit the hours to 40 hours - not working 6 days a week at 8-10 hours for peanuts. (of course the business people won't like this). After this is over, I hope (can't mention his name) comes out and makes a big speech about UNITY and scolds the population like children.

[hughbk]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

The Abhisit's thugs use live ammunition because they have a history of hanging protesters from trees and using many other forms of intimidation besides Abhisit's main tactic of suppression of free thinking by mass censorship. It is no coincidence that Abhisit's thugs have targeted journalists.

If you go out on Rama 4, where I just came back you will see that the Reds attack the Soldiers and police...they burn tyres, throw molotov cocktails and shoot rockets directly at them!!! Soldiers shoot in the air first, but then live...WHAT DO YOU EXPECT!! Reds are out to kill them!

[dobadoy]

The Abhisit's thugs use live ammunition because they have a history of hanging protesters from trees and using many other forms of intimidation besides Abhisit's main tactic of suppression of free thinking by mass censorship. It is no coincidence that Abhisit's thugs have targeted journalists.

Hysteria. Lay off the pschedelics, man.

:D

[Zolt]

Huh?

Apparently YOU haven't been out of whatever small rural area you live in. The MAJORITY does not in fact support the reds at all. That means less than 50% of the population does not support the reds and fewer every day. In a recent poll conducted in Isaan about 50% supported immediate house dissolution and 50% were opposed. That is in the heart of the area that the reds claim support them. You add in the South. The West. Central Thailand and you get FAR less than 50%. The 2007 elections showed more individual support for the Democrats that the Thaksin backed PPP. Since Newin and others left the Thaksin backed coalition it means that more than 50% of the elected MP's back the PTP.

Your claim is not upheld by ANY fact.

Actually as of last elections, about 31% of voters supported PPP. Take into account a pretty low turnout - under 50% and also substract the Newin - BJT supporters, mainly around Buri ram, and the figure of actual "Red" supporters doesn't seem so impressive. Then again the number of people who actually support the democrats is even lower. Most people just don't give a dam_n either way as long as they're able to get on with their lives.

By the way, accurate figures of injured/dead people probably won't come before tomorrow at best - but so far it doesn't look - thank God! - like we're having a repeat of April 10. So what's up - are the reports of soldiers firing hundreds of bullets into the crowd exaggerated or is their aim just that crappy?

Edited May 14, 2010 by Zolt

[samjaidee]

Firstly, I'm neither red nor yellow nor any other colour for that matter, I'm just curious.

Many people on ThaiVisa refer to the reds an being controlled by Thaksin. Someone just now used the word Thaksinista.

From what I understand, these protesters/insurgents,terrorists, whatever takes your fancy, were historically Thaksin supporters when he was in government. Does being a supporter of someone automatically mean that you are controlled by them?

I no longer live in Thailand but follow the news, albeit mostly "headline news" about what's happening there and I don't remember seeing anywhere a piece of evidence that Thaksin is the person controlling the red's actions.

Why would he? Could he ever make a triumphant return to govern Thailand?

I genuinely look forward some of your answers. Educate me please.

Seh Daeng and other leaders have claimed to receive orders directly from Thaksin and follow them without question.

Thanks, that's a start.

Links to any media sources would, I'm sure, go further to help me understand. If anyone happens to know any.