Legionnaire's Disease Outbreak Warning In North Thailand

[EODghost]

Just a couple of points

1) Why haven't the the hotels with contamination been shut down.

2) Have recent guest and hotel staff been told of the contamination so they have the option of getting a check up?

3) If the elderly and smokers need to wear masks entering a contaminated site. How do they know the site is contaminated?? Did the hotel put up a sign in reception advising of Legionnaires??

Easy answer to easy questions:

1) Contaminated hotel stay open because they could care less about you. You spent your money, now your problem, not their problem.

2) NO, see answer number 1

3). Thais take car of their own and give f-all about you. Again, see answer number 1

As far as wingers talking about "you live in a 3rd world country and you want everything perfect" <deleted> mate? I simply want a reasonable degree of common sense. If something is blatantly hazardous, It should be fixed.

But in Thailand that is like expecting Monkeys to fly. Time to move to Singapore.

[Cnxforever]

Another scaremonger article by " The Nation" there is no need to panic and Legionnaires disease has nothing to do with tourism in can be found anywhere also in your houses water supply. Most people don't know about it and never bother to sanitize there water system.

The bacteria can be found everywhere mostly in stagnant water (older buildings are more likely to have it). So if you have a water tank you should sanitize it regularly with at least 200 PPM chlorine solution (if the bacteria is confirmed in your water supply you can even go higher like 1000 PPM) -and flush all water facets with this hyper-chlorinated water.

The bacteria is also frequently found in shower heads which can also be either sanitized or killed with heat (good hotels should change the shower heads frequently they have two sets -while sanitizing on set they use the other) - a water temperature of over 65 C will kill the bacteria so if you have real hot water and flush the shower heads with over 65 C the bacteria should be killed. Very dangerous are so called "dead ends" - if you have any dead end (cut off) water pipes the bacteria ones there -will thrive there and even if you sanitize your water tank it will re-occur as the dead ends are not flushed trough.

The disease is not spread by drinking the contaminated water - but by inhaling it that's the way it finds its way into our lungs and causes the disease. Very dangerous are those fans which spray very fine waterparticles at you for cooling purpose - if these water particles contain the bacteria and are inhaled you are very likely to catch the disease - the same goes for fountains with an integrated water supply. Same goes for the shower the water which is sprayed through the shower-head can contain the bacteria if the spray is fine enough to be inhaled you can catch the disease. The symptoms are very similar to pneumonia - and especially the youngest and oldest are at risk of not surviving the disease if diagnosed incorrect by a physician as the disease is often wrongly diagnosed as a bad flu or pneumonia. There have recently been outbreaks on cruise ships - (which where of course denied by the cruise line in question) cruise-ships especially older ones have a very high risk of legionnaires disease as it is a closed environment and air conditioning shafts and water supply pipes can be kilometers long and are very difficult to clean.

[moe666]

Well that answers my question, as to why i got a chest infection on my holidays.

I now take antibiotics just in case.

Plus i leaned from my Thai friends, to sniff the Thai tiger balm.

It has helped over the last 2 trips and i now use it at home.

What antibiotics do you take, if you are allergic to pennicillian you have a chance only the new ones work aganist leginaires.

[moe666]

Same here I rented a condo in Chiang mai and every time I was there i got sick. Some times for weeks. When i left i got better very fast. <BR>It was an upscale condo that had CARPET that was never cleaned properly i think.<BR>Since i changed condos I have not had another problem.<BR>

Probaly mole.

[moe666]

According to www.legionella.com, air conditioners are not a source of Legionaires disease.They were suspected to be the source of the original American Legion outbreak in a Philadelphia hotel, but new data suggests that the water supply was the culprit, as was the well publicised outbreak in the BBC building.The most popular theory is inhaling droplets of water containing Legionella, but new evidence suggests that it is aspiration or choking.

Sorry wrong, it was the A/C system. The cooling tower( part of A/C system) on the roof exhausted the water droplets off the roof down the front of the building at the entrance. The legioners and the wives were entering and leaving on a daily basis being exposed, breathing in the droplets of water carring the bacteria also they were partying, drinking so reduced immune system.

The water droplets that carry the bacteria have to be a certain size, if to small the bacteria cannot ride if to big you cannot breathe the droplet into your lungs so no infection. That is why you very seldom here of some one getting this diease from a shower droplets to big but not that it could happen.

The bacteria is usually found in water obtained from the surface rivers, creeks and lakes if your water supply comes from a well not to worry so much. The source for outbreaks have been found up to 4 miles away so these little buggers can carry a good distance.

Donot worry about being infected by this nasty bacteria which poses as a virus that is why it took them a while to figure it out, if you have a good immune system you will generally have a bad cold.

[moe666]

Well, I've just had 3 brand new Aircons fitted in my home and ever since then I've had a cold and a permanent cough. Does this mean I have Legionaire's disease now?

No it means that your temp is to far down mate

27c ????

A/c units dry out the air, if you spend to much time under one you will dry out your mucus membranes and even your lungs this is why you are getting sick add a humidifier (A/C unit will have to work harder) but should help your body. Also high doses of vit.c will help thats my solution in Thailand.

[elkangorito]

Firstly, dirty filters are more effective than clean filters. Air flow is reduced with dirty filters & if in a situation whereby little fresh air can enter the room, bacteria in the filter media may cause a problem. The bacteria problem is particularly apparent in areas of high humidity when the a/c is not operating (switched off for many hours).

Secondly, Legionella infections are not easy to acquire. This has been discussed before on Thaivisa. Take your pic from the below selection:

Edited July 22, 2010 by elkangorito

[Viper]

Ive know about this for years - Ive worked in the Air Con business and know all about it. When my friend and i feel ill

last year we put it down to poor air con unit maintenance. You will experience this just about everywhere in Thailand

as there is ZERO maintenance and air condition unit in hotels. We put this down to cost saving, negligence, or lack

of knowledge. When i stay in a hotel i usually clean the units myself now to avoid breathing contaminated spoors.

There needs to be a standard recognised maintenance program on everyone who uses air condition units! This is very

important or eventually you will find a very sick Thailand - BTW i have been living in UK since Feb and ive never felt

more healthy. The air quality is perfect here )

[marc11864]

"There has been a significant increase in the number of patients in the North, though the figures cannot be revealed as it would hurt tourism, Injai said."

NICE!

At least now when I tell my partner why I have no interest in visiting the area, he'll get it. Besides the elderly and smokers, why are they not mentioning those of us with immune system disorders? Huge fail on the part of the government once again for not taking this issue seriously.

[moe666]

"There has been a significant increase in the number of patients in the North, though the figures cannot be revealed as it would hurt tourism, Injai said."

NICE!

At least now when I tell my partner why I have no interest in visiting the area, he'll get it. Besides the elderly and smokers, why are they not mentioning those of us with immune system disorders? Huge fail on the part of the government once again for not taking this issue seriously.

How do they know significant number when I was working in industrial water treatment the test was very expensive and complcated so many illiness not diagnoised. Most people only show a cold and so they donot test.

[sirchai]

As if a Thai hotel will go to the expense of cleaning umpteen air conditioners in their hotel. Why do people bother writing this shit, nothing will ever be done about it....

Maybe it's necessary to write about this 'shit', that some people wake up and a kind of technical inspection team will be sent to your place to check your filter?

[sirchai]

Just a couple of points

1) Why haven't the the hotels with contamination been shut down.

2) Have recent guest and hotel staff been told of the contamination so they have the option of getting a check up?

3) If the elderly and smokers need to wear masks entering a contaminated site. How do they know the site is contaminated?? Did the hotel put up a sign in reception advising of Legionnaires??

Easy answer to easy questions:

1) Contaminated hotel stay open because they could care less about you. You spent your money, now your problem, not their problem.

2) NO, see answer number 1

3). Thais take car of their own and give f-all about you. Again, see answer number 1

As far as wingers talking about "you live in a 3rd world country and you want everything perfect" &lt;deleted&gt; mate? I simply want a reasonable degree of common sense. If something is blatantly hazardous, It should be fixed.

But in Thailand that is like expecting Monkeys to fly. Time to move to Singapore.

Guess it's better for you to move on, Singapore is waiting..Your post shows your outstanding character, indeed.

[Ulysses G.]

But in Thailand that is like expecting Monkeys to fly. Time to move to Singapore.

Wait till you get there and see the price of apartments. I have a feeling that SingaporeVisa.com should be expecting an angry new member.

[maninthailand]

Legionaire's disease is treated with patiem fermagnate anfd forulin how do i know ??? it was my job

[Kwasaki]

Well, I've just had 3 brand new Aircons fitted in my home and ever since then I've had a cold and a permanent cough. Does this mean I have Legionaire's disease now?

No not Legionaire's I hope ! The cough, colds and runny nose is what I found when the temperature was being set too cold, I set it now only to be comfortable.

If some of them are not used a lot, clean them every 6 months and the ones you do use, every year. PS. Tiffy's tablets are very good.

[bubba]

Legionaire's disease is treated with patiem fermagnate anfd forulin how do i know ??? it was my job

No it is absolutely not Legionnaires. As has been posted here many times, Legionella is a water-borne pathogen. It is spread through inhalation of aerosol droplets containing the bacterium. So many people are still posting here stating their fear of dirty aircon filters at hotels, but those absolutely do NOT harbour Legionella.

Read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionellosis

Note that in this article, it is stated that 40% to 60% of all cooling towers contain Legionella. So if 40% of northern Thailand's contain Legionella, they are on the low end of the scale. I really think this is all unfounded hysteria, a la swine flu, bird flu, SARS, etc.

[oldgit]

According to www.legionella.com, air conditioners are not a source of Legionaires disease.They were suspected to be the source of the original American Legion outbreak in a Philadelphia hotel, but new data suggests that the water supply was the culprit, as was the well publicised outbreak in the BBC building.The most popular theory is inhaling droplets of water containing Legionella, but new evidence suggests that it is aspiration or choking.

Sorry wrong, it was the A/C system. The cooling tower( part of A/C system) on the roof exhausted the water droplets off the roof down the front of the building at the entrance. The legioners and the wives were entering and leaving on a daily basis being exposed, breathing in the droplets of water carring the bacteria also they were partying, drinking so reduced immune system.

The water droplets that carry the bacteria have to be a certain size, if to small the bacteria cannot ride if to big you cannot breathe the droplet into your lungs so no infection. That is why you very seldom here of some one getting this diease from a shower droplets to big but not that it could happen.

The bacteria is usually found in water obtained from the surface rivers, creeks and lakes if your water supply comes from a well not to worry so much. The source for outbreaks have been found up to 4 miles away so these little buggers can carry a good distance.

Donot worry about being infected by this nasty bacteria which poses as a virus that is why it took them a while to figure it out, if you have a good immune system you will generally have a bad cold.

[oldgit]

According to www.legionella.com, air conditioners are not a source of Legionaires disease.They were suspected to be the source of the original American Legion outbreak in a Philadelphia hotel, but new data suggests that the water supply was the culprit, as was the well publicised outbreak in the BBC building.The most popular theory is inhaling droplets of water containing Legionella, but new evidence suggests that it is aspiration or choking.

Sorry wrong, it was the A/C system. The cooling tower( part of A/C system) on the roof exhausted the water droplets off the roof down the front of the building at the entrance. The legioners and the wives were entering and leaving on a daily basis being exposed, breathing in the droplets of water carring the bacteria also they were partying, drinking so reduced immune system.

The water droplets that carry the bacteria have to be a certain size, if to small the bacteria cannot ride if to big you cannot breathe the droplet into your lungs so no infection. That is why you very seldom here of some one getting this diease from a shower droplets to big but not that it could happen.

The bacteria is usually found in water obtained from the surface rivers, creeks and lakes if your water supply comes from a well not to worry so much. The source for outbreaks have been found up to 4 miles away so these little buggers can carry a good distance.

Donot worry about being infected by this nasty bacteria which poses as a virus that is why it took them a while to figure it out, if you have a good immune system you will generally have a bad cold.

Well,the experts say different. Incidently, Legionella pneumophila, which is resposible for 90% of all cases, can lurk in any water supply pipework as a biofilm. Plastic,wood and rubber are particularly good at attracting this.

[MAJIC]

"figures cannot be revealed as it would hurt tourism, Injai said"

So responsibity concerning Tourists health once again is only taken into account as long as it does not interfere with the Countries income?

Sad County!

[DickFarang]

To not reveal the numbers as it would hurt tourism is........ words fail me.

LOL = Land of Lies.

[DickFarang]

I have three 21 year old aircon units in my rented house. How do I clean the filters?With water or just shake them ss I have always done? Thanks in advance Dave..No good asking the landlord for help or new units...lol

Domestic air cons have to be cleaned twice a year by specialised staff.

Not only the filters need to be cleaned, but also the gas pressure to be checked.

In Pattaya the cleaning of the filter costs about THB 300 per air con; a gas top-up, when necessary, can cost up to THB 600 per air con, depending on the quantity of gas needed.

If the gas pressure is low or inexistent, your electricity consumption will go up and the cooling effect will go down.

[moe666]

I have three 21 year old aircon units in my rented house. How do I clean the filters?With water or just shake them ss I have always done? Thanks in advance Dave..No good asking the landlord for help or new units...lol

Domestic air cons have to be cleaned twice a year by specialised staff.

Not only the filters need to be cleaned, but also the gas pressure to be checked.

In Pattaya the cleaning of the filter costs about THB 300 per air con; a gas top-up, when necessary, can cost up to THB 600 per air con, depending on the quantity of gas needed.

If the gas pressure is low or inexistent, your electricity consumption will go up and the cooling effect will go down.

I would suggest that the filters be cleaned by the home owner at least weekly, it only takes a small amt. of dirt to raise your electrical usage.

[moe666]

According to www.legionella.com, air conditioners are not a source of Legionaires disease.They were suspected to be the source of the original American Legion outbreak in a Philadelphia hotel, but new data suggests that the water supply was the culprit, as was the well publicised outbreak in the BBC building.The most popular theory is inhaling droplets of water containing Legionella, but new evidence suggests that it is aspiration or choking.

Sorry wrong, it was the A/C system. The cooling tower( part of A/C system) on the roof exhausted the water droplets off the roof down the front of the building at the entrance. The legioners and the wives were entering and leaving on a daily basis being exposed, breathing in the droplets of water carring the bacteria also they were partying, drinking so reduced immune system.

The water droplets that carry the bacteria have to be a certain size, if to small the bacteria cannot ride if to big you cannot breathe the droplet into your lungs so no infection. That is why you very seldom here of some one getting this diease from a shower droplets to big but not that it could happen.

The bacteria is usually found in water obtained from the surface rivers, creeks and lakes if your water supply comes from a well not to worry so much. The source for outbreaks have been found up to 4 miles away so these little buggers can carry a good distance.

Donot worry about being infected by this nasty bacteria which poses as a virus that is why it took them a while to figure it out, if you have a good immune system you will generally have a bad cold.

Well,the experts say different. Incidently, Legionella pneumophila, which is resposible for 90% of all cases, can lurk in any water supply pipework as a biofilm. Plastic,wood and rubber are particularly good at attracting this.

What do the experts say that is different? If you get your water from a surface source contaiminated then the water supply will fill the cooling tower which is made from wood, plastic, and othe materials. The bacteria will then grow in this very friendly enviroment. As most cooling towers use a fan to either push or pull air across the cooling medium, the contaminated water, water particles with the bacteria are exhausted into the air

ready for some unsuspecting person passing by to inhale the airborne contaminated water particles.

No the part of the A/C system most people see, in their room was not responsible that is a closed loop system. The part of the system that delivered the bacteria in a arosol to be breathed in was the cooling tower a major part of the a/c syatem that no ones see. Yes it was fed by pipes delivering contamined water.

Edited July 24, 2010 by moe666

[Seismic]

Well, I've just had 3 brand new Aircons fitted in my home and ever since then I've had a cold and a permanent cough. Does this mean I have Legionaire's disease now?

No it means you could be allergic to the AC,i have the same problem,i never use the AC in hotels (ask for a fan),(patlum),nor do i have it at home,sorry to say you may have wasted your cash,i bought a potable AC 2000Bt,you fill with water or if you need to be more cool you can put ice in,works great,i also use ceiling and/or a portable stand up fan,if it's really hot i have a supply of damp towles in the fridge to dowse down with (paian) easy simple,AC is overrated.

Just to be pedantic, the portable units you are describing are not actually Air-Conditioners. They are used extensively in the US (swamp coolers/desert coolers is, I believe, the laymans term) but in fact are only effective in areas of low humidity. Guess what .... Not Thailand where Humidity is king. They work on the theory of evaporative cooling (cooling is achieved by evaporation, radiation convection and conduction). If you live in arizona they are a great buy, in Thailand......Naaah

In regard to other posts which are more On topic, why shut down the Hotel ??, generally in western eyes it is seen as a sign that the management acknowledges the potential risk and wants your custom, so they do a thorough cleaning before exposing guests to the potential again, ie Scarborough UK, that huge imposing victorian hotel, bunch of people got sick, legionnaires confirmed, they (at hotel expense) transferred everyone else to another hotel, shut down the hotel for professional cleaning, paid expenses for everyone inconvinienced, and also paid for any private medical expenses. As a result, 6 months later Hotel was again at full capacity, manager noted that the hotel actually gained customers due to their swift actions and total bill payments, not an ambulance chaser in sight because hotel paid all claims without going to court.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Seismic

[Seismic]

Just to add another spoke to the Cleaning wheel, I work for 6 months a year on a small (60-80 metre) research vessel,. We have central AC to the critical areas, ie Instrument room, engine control room, general deck areas and individual AC to some of the newer cabins (added after a refit) Every week we have a shedule for AC maintenance and every 2 weeks we have a schedule for individual AC filter cleaning. This is adhered to 100%, preventative maintenance saves money, no contest, try explaining that to Thai managers

[pastitche]

I used to stay at a hotel in Bangkok where I would get sick every time I stayed there. I suspected that there was some kind of bacteria in the air con and stopped staying there and stopped getting sick when I visited Bangkok..

Yes - so you weren't in Chiang Mai and you survived for 3 weeks without treatment......