chainarong Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Looks much like the fail safe system failed , I wounder why??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainarong Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I have worked on lift shafts and it has been demonstrated to me several times how this is impossible. One can only conclude that the lift was of some design that is completely unacceptable for public use or some essential parts had been removed and the lift shouldn't have been in service.......or the story is false. THe number of people is pretty much irrelevant as the lift won't move if overweight. Unless of course the floor fell out! Trevor BRIDGE was probably around the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce1 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Are you sure that's overloading? The lifts where I work have signs stating the maximum load is 18 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Are you sure that's overloading? The lifts where I work have signs stating the maximum load is 18 people. Weight Bruce, weight. Is that a special lift at your work, 18 small asian people or 18 people on the way to a weight watchers meeting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I remember reading that in Argentina that people die most everyday from elevator accidents. It is a country with many smaller older buildings, and older elevators. Yet we don't hear about elevator accidents very often here in Thailand. Happily, there were no deaths. They really were lucky. Interesting you should mention that...we were in Buenos Aires 2 years ago...and the lift in our building was that old type where you had to close the outside door, and then the inside door...none of which looked safe...especially when the lift will move if called when only the outside door is closed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeral Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I think the significance for thailand is not that this occurs ever day, but that this sort of negligence - or absurdity - in one form or another occurs everyday. II have been told time and again that no matter what happens, it is virtually impossible for a lift to "plummet" yet here in Thailand they mange to fit a lift that does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce1 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 There are four lifts and there is a maximum weight limit, but I can't remember what it is. I wonder how a group of people decide if they pass the weight limit. Do they stand there and total up their combined weight before getting in the lift? Hardly. Re. the Pattaya thing I thought there was a safety brake which was supposed to loock the lift to the shaft if the power went off, or something similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tompa Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I wonder if anyone inside bothered jumping just prior to the elevator impacted with the ground? Thats what I would of done. They tried that in mythbusters and it wouldn't have saved your life. http://mythbustersresults.com/episode17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 The lift probably did not move due to overloading by 16 people in it, and it was jump started... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I thought 10 person was the maximum in a lift? Have you seen the size of some of these Pattaya tourists? That lift could well have been carrying 4800lbs or 2177 kilos or 2.177 tonnes. Here are the workings: Arithmetic mean average weight of Pattaya tourist: 300 lbs Number of Pattaya tourists in lift come Disneyland ride: 16 16# x 300lbs = 4800 lbs 1 kg = 2.20462248 lbs 4800/2.20 = 2177 kgs. 1 tonne = 1000 kgs. 2177/1000 = 2.177 tonnes. Just as a matter of personal preferences I refuse to get on a elevator with 15 other people my size. Also reading these posts can be upsetting I had no problem with it happening in third world countries but Tywais You ruined it with the post about America having so many problems. No wonder Dean Martin was afraid to take elevators. Oh well I fly and the odds of getting hurt on the elevator are probably worse. I was 160kgs (352lbs) two years ago, now 90kgs. So, yes I know what you mean. I was scared to get in an elevator with me! What was the answer. Not that high and no intention of getting there but at 68 it dosen't go that fast. Life threatening diabetes. Very poorly chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrycallahan Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 The monkey stopped pedalling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meelousee Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I have a very dear friend that works for OTIS Elevator, and I helped her secure a contract here in BKK. We had many in depth discussions and I can tell you why this happened. Brake systems detect speed of the car and if it moves faster than X meters or X feet per second the lift cables are locked down. It takes 2 hours to unlock them. Tea money for the contract, brake system not present, it is expensive. This is why OTIS will not pay tea money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Being at least 18 floors high the lifts will run on cable with a counter weight. These lifts have two safety measures that I'm aware of: the first is a clutch that is held open by a solenoid. No power and the clutch closes causes a breaking effect. They also have an over-speed system, which could be either hydraulic or mechnical (never electrical because it is meant to activate in the event of no power). Basically, when the system gets too fast hydraulic fluid is pumped into a ram that has a breaking effect. My understanding is that these won't actually stop a heavily loaded lift, just slow it down to a life-saving speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerman Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I didnt think this was possible, if there is a failure they are supposed to stop/lock where they are , i have a friend that works for otis and im sure he told me this, bizzarre Does it suprise you that they haven't serviced the lift since it was installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurwait Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Injured appear to be Thai nationals, lift instructions in English or Chinese 10 inturpreted as minimum not maximum?. Well that throws my theory out the window then. Although there are a lot burger joints in that town. Obesity on the rise? Do you not know any middle or upper class Thais ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinrada Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Glad nobody killed .. Never stayed there but seem to remember visiting about 10 plus years agao... Anyway had a look on a Trip A thingy and found a recent comment from an obvious unhappy guest ...QUOTE Have stayed in many hotels in the world & this has to be the worst one ever. The staff were rude when they could even try to speak English, the rooms were disgusting the bed felt like you were lying on a rock the sheets were that old they had tears & were grey in colour. The shower head was rusted you got a blob of water not a flow the balcony door lock was broken the bed tilted so the blood ran to your head. We all decided to change hotels the next day we were supposed to stay 7 nights & only stayed 1 thats how bad it was. Do yourself a favour dont stay at this dirty outdated hotel which is owned by Russians that says it all. We moved to Jomtien Garden Hotel & had the most wonderful & enjoyable stay there!!!! When we mentioned to the locals what Hotel we had left they all laughed & said it was 75 years old & didnt have a good reputation!!!!! I dont think they have done much to improve this dump for at least 60 years. should able to pick up some good (cheap)rates now ...IF you dare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycjoe Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scania Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I thought 10 person was the maximum in a lift? Not when you can fit in 16 ! At least not here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiercesnake Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I have worked on lift shafts and it has been demonstrated to me several times how this is impossible. One can only conclude that the lift was of some design that is completely unacceptable for public use or some essential parts had been removed and the lift shouldn't have been in service.......or the story is false. THe number of people is pretty much irrelevant as the lift won't move if overweight. Unless of course the floor fell out! I don't know why so many stories like this surface here that don't appear to have all the facts. I agree, lifts are in general extremely safe in most parts of the world. Sure they occasionally fail but usually just stop not collapse. These machines have fail safe systems, even in the most simplest units. If they start to break, even catastrophic cable breaks, the automatic brakes come on and lock it in place, even if half way between floors. Takes a while to get people out but they are safe. I agree, overweight (16 people) in a small lift would simply trigger the overweight alarm and the elevator would simply open the doors and not move! Another poster wrote that a full drop of 10 floors means complete utter catastrophe. I agree, do the maths, full acceleration at 9.8 m/s2 gives a massive KE by impact. They'd all be dead. Most posters are right, not all the facts are in on this one. Clearly something went wrong but what really happened and what were its true causes would be very interesting to find out IF they do a REAL investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I don't know why poor Otis keeps getting mentioned. Chances are it was German or Swiss technology. The Schindler Group of Switzerland and Germany's ThyssenKrup are major players in Thailand. Anyone want to bet with me that Otis won't be involved? In any case, the elevator did not plunge, it merely descended at an accelerated speed and when the emergency brakes and governor kicked in, the result is that a few people were jostled and a bone or two was fractured. The physical injuries probably came as people fell on each other. As others have pointed out, had the elevator "plummeted" they'd have been hosing out the collapsed elevator box and trying to push gooey bits and organs back into the bodies. We'd also be treated to more entertaining photos of squashed bodies. Instead we have to settle of the reporter's artistic interpretation of events. The emergency braking system most likely worked, but the overloading and usual panic associated with adventures in Thailand facilitated the phyysical injuries. No one died and that's what matters most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seismic Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Its amazing that all these amazing thailand comments get called as if lifts are plunging every second day right accross the country. I don't ever recall hearing of this before, although I do recall a lift worker being crushed to death not so long back when working in a lift shaft with the lift still operating. Anyway, perhaps some shouldnt be so critical of thai, perhaps this had nothing to do with Thailand, other than the accident occuring here, of course. I believe that day-night plaza was closed due to a lift incident many years ago, before it emerged from the chrysalis as Tuk.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtongfarang Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 (edited) I seem to remember that the lift at the citi bank silom branch plumeted a couple of years ago but only the 2 guys repairing it at the time were in there, On a side note 2 years ago i traveled in the lift at the 101 buiding in taiwan and wow it was fast...even has a speedometer but speeds up and slows down in such a way its not so alarming, The little taiwanese minx who pilots it gets a sadistic smile on as the passengers go almost weightless. Edited July 25, 2010 by tingtongfarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raro Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I wonder in what various stages of shock they will be when the BPH presents them the bill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I wonder in what various stages of shock they will be when the BPH presents them the bill... Ohhhh, you are bad man. A very bad man. Too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokbruce Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Thai's are notorious for overcrowding just about anything that moves with no regard for safety. Busses, escalators, tuk tuk's, motorcycle's, river ferries, and taxi's. I remember the old days in Bangkok when the busses were so full I had my ass hanging out the door hoping the bus driver didnt get to close to another car, bus, or street sign. How many times have you seen a scooter with 4-5 people on it? Or a tuk tuk with 6-7 people crammed in there? My guess annual inspections were not done in this elevator and the use of substandard parts failing here. I'm sure some safety mechanism failed in this case but it did seem to slow it down or their would have been fatalities for sure. Tea money and inspections go hand in hand in the LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Pedantic Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I thought Jomtien was the next town down from Pattaya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 elevators are equipped with a mechanical spring brake independent of power. The weight of the elevator against the cables that hold the elevator keep the brake in the off position. if the cable breaks, the tension is relieved and the break snaps into the one position. Unless the "unknown power failure" suspended the laws of physics, something else caused this. i have heard of accidents like this and they have always been from novices putting in their own elevators instead of having a professional modern lift installed. Correct: The only thing that holds the brakes off the side runners, is the cable block mechanism at the top of the lift,once the main cable breaks or disconnects,the brakes automatically apply onto the side runners. Still, if overloaded with passengers,there would be more strain on the brakes efficiency,but not a free fall scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franklnooner Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Well Im sure the lift had great and proper maintenace, just like everthing else in Pattaya, Yeah Right!!!! Lets just keep paying people off and cutting corners to save money no proplem. TIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkok101 Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 I remember reading that in Argentina that people die most everyday from elevator accidents. It is a country with many smaller older buildings, and older elevators. Yet we don't hear about elevator accidents very often here in Thailand. Happily, there were no deaths. They really were lucky. I live in an 8 floor condo unit in Jomtien and heard a horrendous sound one afternoon when the lift plunged, free-fell, etc from the 8th to the 4th floor just after a person exited on the 8th floor. The lift took two days to repair and still has many problems. There are two lifts in the complex with one out of service for the past 2 months. They cannot seem to repair it properly. The life is manufactured by "Eastern Group" and seems to be rife with problems. Most residents use the stairs now. If an elevator actually did free-fall for 4 floors ....you would sustain serious injury and most likely death, 10 floors.....NO CHANCE baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokal Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 While it is a tragedy no one can really be surprised. We are truely on our own here in the Land of Smiles. Maintenance is an afterthought and only becomes an issue after an incident. I wonder just how many near misses we have had at the airports? I wonder who will get the contract for the nuclear reactors? The same company that does the elevators I suppose. I want to be on my own here in the LOS. That is why I like it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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