A Story Of Fear

[NaChampain]

Let me tell you a story and please allow me to ask for your comments - if you care to comment.

Remember the man holding two closed hands out to you? Would you like to see what's in the hands before choosing the left or right? Yes! The right hand has a 1,000 bath note and the left has no note. You pick which hand? Right hand of course, you say - Would you like an explanation before making your choice? No! Fine, but had you asked. He would have told you: The right hand has the 1,000 baht note. The left hand has "No Fear" and "No Worries". Asking you now how would you choose: Feeding your greed or extinguishing your suffering?

Remember Extinguish fear - extinguish suffering is what lord buddha said. Let me say that this story is one of very many out next year in a book here in Thailand. I hope we all enjoy life and live life without fear

[Xangsamhua]

Perhaps not so much a story as a "hypothetical". If you and your neighbour had no money and 1000 baht would pay for essential surgery for your neighbour's child, which would be better - to be relieved of personal fear or to pay for the essential surgery for the child? The option in this case is not between greed and detachment, but between compassion and personal benefit.

What can you tell us about the book?

[NaChampain]

Perhaps not so much a story as a "hypothetical". If you and your neighbour had no money and 1000 baht would pay for essential surgery for your neighbour's child, which would be better - to be relieved of personal fear or to pay for the essential surgery for the child? The option in this case is not between greed and detachment, but between compassion and personal benefit.

What can you tell us about the book?

Let me say, your insight tells me that you are thoughtful. Actions may be the same, but intentions (Jetana in thai) are different. Hence, your story would of course give intentions (jetana) as you help someone else so that you choose 1000 baht. But my story had intentions (jetana) for that person to receive 1000 baht themself.

You need to distinguish between actions and intentions. Sometimes people may tham bun at the temple, but if the intentions are wrong, actions are not right. Jetana is the important point here.

The book will blow a few people away. There are many books out there about Sine-Samathi, but not many books about Panya (Thai words, but difficult spelling them in english). However, it will be Kham-Khum short stories based on many years of scolarly studies. Buddhism: Hit-the-point as Than buddhsa Bhikku may have done had he been here now . Use Hed-Pon in life

[ducksonspeed]

As a teacher in a pratom school I suggest that these ideas be explained as just that. An idea. It is an interesting story but do you really believe that Buddhist are that pure. i suggest that all religions give scenarios like you have stated and as soon as these ideas become popular they will be tainted by people using them for personal gain.

An interesting story but do you really think people are interesting in the actions you championing. I wish you all the best in your endeavours but please be realistic.

[NaChampain]

As a teacher in a pratom school I suggest that these ideas be explained as just that. An idea. It is an interesting story but do you really believe that Buddhist are that pure. i suggest that all religions give scenarios like you have stated and as soon as these ideas become popular they will be tainted by people using them for personal gain.

An interesting story but do you really think people are interesting in the actions you championing. I wish you all the best in your endeavours but please be realistic.

I congratulate you. I honor your choice of duty in life - a teacher in pratom - it's a hard life, but you fulfill an important role.

Jetana - intentions: in law or in budhism is a key issue. The government now gives the interpretation to people: what is the Jetana of this or that action. The action may be the same, but if the Jetana is different... Try ask your students in pratom.

Now Than Wor from Chiang Rai is starting out, but its a long process. Your actions may be the same, but your intentions - who knows?

Our goal is to sell our book and the foundation will start a roadshow to all public schools.

[Xangsamhua]

Perhaps not so much a story as a "hypothetical". If you and your neighbour had no money and 1000 baht would pay for essential surgery for your neighbour's child, which would be better - to be relieved of personal fear or to pay for the essential surgery for the child? The option in this case is not between greed and detachment, but between compassion and personal benefit.

What can you tell us about the book?

Let me say, your insight tells me that you are thoughtful. Actions may be the same, but intentions (Jetana in thai) are different. Hence, your story would of course give intentions (jetana) as you help someone else so that you choose 1000 baht. But my story had intentions (jetana) for that person to receive 1000 baht themself.

You need to distinguish between actions and intentions. Sometimes people may tham bun at the temple, but if the intentions are wrong, actions are not right. Jetana is the important point here.

Maybe I'm too literal, but the choice between 1000 baht and freedom from worry and fear doesn't seem evenly balanced. Freedom from worry and fear would be a marvellous boon; 1000 baht doesn't satiate your greed much at all. Now if the 1000 baht were, say, 76 billion baht, how would that weigh against the alternative?

I take your point that the story's intention is to juxtapose freedom from one poison - delusion (i.e. worry and fear) with attachment to another - greed. However, until you explained that the choice to take the money had to be bound by the intention to spend it ignorantly (for greed), there was no prior indication that greed had to be the motivation for taking it.

The choice between an insignificant medium for satisfying small-time greed and a lifetime freedom from worry and fear is not a realistic one. It would be more topical in Thailand to use the example of 76 billion baht (to be used for whatever purpose) as a choice against freedom from fear. Trouble is, nearly everyone is going to choose the 76 billion baht and most will justify that choice with reasons that are unrelated to greed (even if they don't really act on them). With 76 billion baht one can do so many worthwhile things, ease so much physical suffering and deprivation, employ so many people, free people up to realize their potential, etc..

Of course, dreams fuelled by money often don't work out they way they should, but to choose the alternative - one individual's freedom from worry and fear - suggests a desire for self-emancipation and perfection in callous disregard for the suffering of others.

I think the story needs to be nuanced a bit before it's used, or at least clarified from the beginning (i.e. "you must spend the money on self-indulgence").

As it stood, the story to me was a platform for contrasting the way of the arahat with that of the bodhisattva.

[christiaan]

There is something I do not like about this story. That is the fact it does not explain the difference between 'material' greed and 'spiritual' greed.

Greed itself is spiritual, it is not material and this story shows to me greed is greed no matter if it is related to money OR a life without worries and without fear. So talking about intentions??

This story tells about Buddhisme as we know it and it certainly could be a 'Thai' story

To illustrate the quest of MODERN Buddhisme I have a follow-up story.

There is this man with closed hands before you again and again he has two closed hands and tell you you can make a choice and one of them could make you feel very happy. (you could become the happiest enlighted man or woman in Thailand)

Before choosing this time you ask: What is in the left hand, what is in the right hand?

This man tell you:

In the left hand is a life without fear and without worry for you.

In the right hand there is a life without fear without worry for that female munk overthere struggling to fullfill the rules of Buddhisme.

WHAT will you choose??

[Xangsamhua]

There is this man with closed hands before you again and again he has two closed hands and tell you you can make a choice and one of them could make you feel very happy. (you could become the happiest enlighted man or woman in Thailand)

Before choosing this time you ask: What is in the left hand, what is in the right hand?

This man tell you:

In the left hand is a life without fear and without worry for you.

In the right hand there is a life without fear without worry for that female munk overthere struggling to fullfill the rules of Buddhisme.

WHAT will you choose??

I don't think this version would be permitted in Thailand.

[SpoliaOpima]

I would have to question the intentions of the man holding out the two closed hands. Why torture another person with such a choice? If you really had the power to offer such a choice, and knew which was better, then why not not simply give that one to the other person? You would have to be cruel to make them choose between what you thing to be right and what you think to be wrong.

Who has that kind of power? No one. Spiritual freedom cannot be given. It can only be earned.

[christiaan]

There are many ways to look at a story like this, maybe a dozen. They all help to show what the story in essence could tell. The story itself is probably meant to be a teaching. That seems to be the intention. In the story the man holding out the closed hands seems to have the intention to teach. But the reality is that this is one of the many stories out in a book that seems to be published next year....in Thailand. Where do these stories come from? Real life?

They come from the mind pondering about enlightment and I would say this story conserves a way of thinking, a way of feeling, a way of handling that is called Buddhisme. It is telling the same story over and over again in a not very original way. And while these stories are coming out, real life continues just the way as it is, nothing new.

[NaChampain]

There are many ways to look at a story like this, maybe a dozen. They all help to show what the story in essence could tell. The story itself is probably meant to be a teaching. That seems to be the intention. In the story the man holding out the closed hands seems to have the intention to teach. But the reality is that this is one of the many stories out in a book that seems to be published next year....in Thailand. Where do these stories come from? Real life?

They come from the mind pondering about enlightment and I would say this story conserves a way of thinking, a way of feeling, a way of handling that is called Buddhisme. It is telling the same story over and over again in a not very original way. And while these stories are coming out, real life continues just the way as it is, nothing new.

Thank you all for the interesting comments on the OP story. The purpose was to hopefully be able to test a few presumably knowledgeable persons readings of this short story. Those of us with time and interest enough to check out this forum on Buddhism hopefully fall in that category (some level of knowledge…J)

Let me say that the story is written as Zen style ("Kham Khum baab Zen" in Thai words) but based on Theravada theory. I have given it 4-5 days, but with a typical Zen story originating long ago from either China or Japan one would often need months of reading and contemplating to get to the core of the story – many times even that amount of time didn’t necessarily mean a clear insight was achieved.

I guess I should wait another 2-3 weeks before pushing further, but in these fast times many people couldn’t care less about reading such a short and seemingly simple story more than once or twice. Hence, I will wait just a few more days – perhaps one or more in the meantime will reach the core of the meaning of the story. If not, I will (for the one or two of you out there, whom cares…) return back with the follow up around Friday/Saturday this week.

“The 5 aggregates are worth contemplating, but don’t believe me – practice it by yourself and then you may believe on your own”

[NaChampain]

There are many ways to look at a story like this, maybe a dozen. They all help to show what the story in essence could tell. The story itself is probably meant to be a teaching. That seems to be the intention. In the story the man holding out the closed hands seems to have the intention to teach. But the reality is that this is one of the many stories out in a book that seems to be published next year....in Thailand. Where do these stories come from? Real life?

They come from the mind pondering about enlightment and I would say this story conserves a way of thinking, a way of feeling, a way of handling that is called Buddhisme. It is telling the same story over and over again in a not very original way. And while these stories are coming out, real life continues just the way as it is, nothing new.

Thank you all for the interesting comments on the OP story. The purpose was to hopefully be able to test a few presumably knowledgeable persons readings of this short story. Those of us with time and interest enough to check out this forum on Buddhism hopefully fall in that category (some level of knowledge…J)

Let me say that the story is written as Zen style ("Kham Khum baab Zen" in Thai words) but based on Theravada theory. I have given it 4-5 days, but with a typical Zen story originating long ago from either China or Japan one would often need months of reading and contemplating to get to the core of the story – many times even that amount of time didn't necessarily mean a clear insight was achieved.

I guess I should wait another 2-3 weeks before pushing further, but in these fast times many people couldn't care less about reading such a short and seemingly simple story more than once or twice. Hence, I will wait just a few more days – perhaps one or more in the meantime will reach the core of the meaning of the story. If not, I will (for the one or two of you out there, whom cares…) return back with the follow up around Friday/Saturday this week.

"The 5 aggregates are worth contemplating, but don't believe me – practice it by yourself and then you may believe on your own"

There are many wonderful posts in this forum. There are many forms of Buddhism, but only one form of enlightenment. That is that suffering is extinguished. Do you extinguish suffering by chasing the 8 forms of wants/don’t wants? You do not.

Wants of assets, position, reputation and happiness. And you want to make sure that you don’t loose out on assets, position, reputation and happiness. One word for this may be FEAR. Fear of not getting your wants.

This book will be published in Thai first. Then translated into English, Chinese Mandarin, Japanese and perhaps a number of other languages along the way.

The point of the story of fear is best explained in the book, but let me offer you a taste of it here: The point is that most people never see the two hands stretched out. Most people only see the hand with money. That is all well and fine, if the person selecting the money is doing their duty and using the money to the best of their abilities and whatever comes out of that action is just a bonus for them personally. Unfortunately what Buddhism has fallen to here is a focus on the hand with money (seek happiness as a way to extinguish suffering). Seeking assets, position, reputation and happiness is not the truth and you will hopefully enjoy a world class book next year – I know I will love it, since it’s my wife who has written it.

I saw some place via google search that Buddhism was summarized as “Play nice”. Simply incorrect. There are no good or bad in Buddhism. The five aggregates leads you to accept that there is no self and without a self or an ego you do not have black or white, good or bad, yin or yang and so on. I could continue, but this is my last post on this subject. Best of life to you all.

[SpoliaOpima]

There is another possibility, too. That is that the story is in fact inadequate to teach us anything about Buddhism, that it is an ego-driven concoction. Not every Zen parable pans out. Many are of the 'Chicken Soup Is Good For The Soul' variety, and IMO this could be deemed thus.

Of course, everyone is welcome to his own opinion. If you find it to be deep and meaningful, then for you that is a wonderful thing.

Good luck marketing your astounding book

[kurnell]

I like the story of the Welshman who says "If you can guess how many pounds I have in my pocket, I'll give you both of them"

[christiaan]

Like I wrote before , nothing new, .

It could be possible beside the closed hands with the money inside in the story there could be a hand opened to receive money for a book to translate in many languages. But I have my doubts about the sales, ....and the translations.

[lukeskywalker]

I hope the book is written in better English than the title of this thread. "Life my life?"

Just saying..