Thai King Permits Queensland, Australia, To Use His Artificial Rainmaking Technology

[Garry]

Dr. Howard Florey, a future Nobel Laureate, and three colleagues at Oxford University began intensive research and were able to demonstrate penicillin's ability to kill infectious bacteria...... so I still fail to see how you think Penicillin is an Australian invention!

Howard Walter Florey, Baron Florey OM, FRS (24 September 1898 – 21 February 1968) was an Australian pharmacologist and pathologist who shared the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1945 with Ernst Boris Chain and Sir Alexander Fleming for his role in the extraction of penicillin. Florey's discoveries are estimated to have saved over 80 million lives, worldwide.[1] Florey is regarded by the Australian scientific and medical community as probably[weasel words] its greatest scientist. Sir Robert Menzies, Australia's longest-serving Prime Minister, said that "in terms of world well-being, Florey was the most important man ever born in Australia".[citation needed]

This probably explains it better:

White Hat Report

Sometimes Person A discovers a substance or process while Person B later invents a way that it can be used or harnessed. Thus while penicillin was ‘discovered’ by Alexander Fleming, it was later isolated by Howard Florey and Ernst Chain at Cambridge and it was Florey and his team who turned it into the practical medication that was used to save millions of lives. Thus there were numbers of important people in the ‘invention’ of penicillin as we know it, and Fleming, Chain and Florey shared the 1945 Nobel Prize.

[MUYTHAI]

Interesting! It would be interesting to find out how the said particular technology operates and is carried out. Good to read some positive news.

[Garry]

Interesting! It would be interesting to find out how the said particular technology operates and is carried out. Good to read some positive news.

I think one of the important things of HM the King's technique, was his unique ideas on the application of the cloud seeding process and specialised chemicals that were trialed.

[James22]

Ok and how is it working out down there?

[RedBullHorn]

down where ?

[naiharn]

I left Queensland 6 weeks ago there were record floods and flow to South Australia from one of the driest parts of Queensland ??? Ongoing drought ??? Not in Queensland but some areas in South Australia and New South Wales Maybe ! Then again ive never ever seen a 100% correct "News Release" on here yet why should they start now Hey!

Shame on you for introducing some non-conforming facts to this debate!

(I would like to add some additional comments, but certain restrictions in force prevent serious discussion )

[naiharn]

After a quick search, I can't find a single mention of this exciting development in the Australian media. Granted there is a national election campaign in progress, but, still not a sausage. Does anyone have a link to an article on the subject from an aussie viewpoint?

[naiharn]

Some posters here seem to think that the holding of a patent is an indication of briliance, even extreme brilliance, even genius!

A few facts:

• patents are not rare things, over 8 million have been registered in the US alone
• If someone is regarded as a genius for holding 2 or 3 patents, what do you make of a man who holds over 3,000? http://en.wikipedia....lific_inventors (Kia Silverbrook)
• there is nothing in the award of a patent that indicates the invention actually WORKS, or is USEFUL

Many patents are extremely entertaining, for the wrong reasons, try these for starters:

http://totallyabsurd.com/bethebike.htm

http://totallyabsurd.com/milkgun.htm

http://totallyabsurd...abbleshield.htm

[chainarong]

queensland not needing rain on the east coastal strip maybe be not, but in towns west of toowoomba, the further west you go the worse the drought is, we are reliant on rainwater tanks for our water, if we dont get some real rain soon we will have to buy water or put in a bore,might get a bit of a real wet about february or march, my garden looks a bit like the simpson

It's getting a bit dry in regional west oz also.

[Garry]

queensland not needing rain on the east coastal strip maybe be not, but in towns west of toowoomba, the further west you go the worse the drought is, we are reliant on rainwater tanks for our water, if we dont get some real rain soon we will have to buy water or put in a bore,might get a bit of a real wet about february or march, my garden looks a bit like the simpson

It's getting a bit dry in regional west oz also.

I tend to forget about my distant cousins out in the sticks. Sorry all

[animatic]

Dr. Howard Florey, a future Nobel Laureate, and three colleagues at Oxford University began intensive research and were able to demonstrate penicillin's ability to kill infectious bacteria...... so I still fail to see how you think Penicillin is an Australian invention!

Howard Walter Florey, Baron Florey OM, FRS (24 September 1898 – 21 February 1968) was an Australian pharmacologist and pathologist who shared the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1945 with Ernst Boris Chain and Sir Alexander Fleming for his role in the extraction of penicillin. Florey's discoveries are estimated to have saved over 80 million lives, worldwide.[1] Florey is regarded by the Australian scientific and medical community as probably[weasel words] its greatest scientist. Sir Robert Menzies, Australia's longest-serving Prime Minister, said that "in terms of world well-being, Florey was the most important man ever born in Australia".[citation needed]

Sir Alexander Fleming

• Alexander Fleming
• born August. 6, 1881 , Darvel, Scotland
• died March 11, 1955 , London, England

History of Penicillin

Originally noticed by a French medical student, Ernest Duchesne, in 1896. Penicillin was re-discovered by bacteriologist Alexander Fleming working at St. Mary's Hospital in London in 1928. He observed that a plate culture of Staphylococcus had been contaminated by a blue-green mold and that colonies of bacteria adjacent to the mold were being dissolved. Curious, Alexander Fleming grew the mold in a pure culture and found that it produced a substance that killed a number of disease-causing bacteria. Naming the substance penicillin, Dr. Fleming in 1929 published the results of his investigations, noting that his discovery might have therapeutic value if it could be produced in quantity.

http://inventors.abo.../Penicillin.htm

Never really understood nationalism about inventors.

Edison invented electric lights using DC, Tesla invented flourecent lights and AC.

Most all movie projectors use AC and are watched world wide...

who cares where a useful thing was invented,

saying it comes from your country doesn't make

it's global citizenry more intelligent,

just the one who actually was.

Edited August 7, 2010 by animatic

[harrry]

Never really understood nationalism about inventors.

Edison invented electric lights using DC, Tesla invented flourecent lights and AC.

Most all movie projectors use AC and are watched world wide...

who cares where a useful thing was invented,

saying it comes from your country doesn't make

it's global citizenry more intelligent,

just the one who actually was.

Most all projectors use Xenon Arc Lamps and they are DC as was their predecescor the Carbon arc.

[animatic]

Never really understood nationalism about inventors.

Edison invented electric lights using DC, Tesla invented flourecent lights and AC.

Most all movie projectors use AC and are watched world wide...

who cares where a useful thing was invented,

saying it comes from your country doesn't make

it's global citizenry more intelligent,

just the one who actually was.

Most all projectors use Xenon Arc Lamps and they are DC as was their predecescor the Carbon arc.

And the motors and source electricity? AC in, conversion later.

Many early ones used gas light too. Mot a good match with Nitrite film stock.

[geriatrickid]

I suggest that prior to commenting, folks have a look at the Queensland government's public information on whether or not there is or has been a drought.

http://www.longpaddo...eport/index.php

I am not a farmer, nor a specialist in soil conditions. However, an estimate of 1.4% of land area experiencing drought like conditions, does add some context to the discussion and one can draw one's own conclusions.

My understanding is that parts of Queensland are still recovering from flooding. I have no idea about the press release reliability. If the government of Queensland sent a request, then the letter is in the public domain, at least in Australia and I am unable to find the request. Perhaps, MCOT can release the text to help the discussion along.

Edited August 7, 2010 by geriatrickid

[sabaijai]

Yes, I did read what she said carefully, I was trying to make a point without getting banned by suggesting that the method used here in Thailand is exactly the same as the method used in the US during the 50s and was given to the Thai government during the 60s for military purposes.

Do you have a source for that claim? I can find no mention anywhere on the web that shows Americans using either of the two technologies for which the King holds patents.

In 1955 the King became the world's first to hold a patent when he invented the original ‘sandwich’ rainmaking technology, in which two planes seed warm and cool clouds at differing altitudes, causing vapour droplets to form and fall to earth as rain. He continued his rainmaking research and earned further patents, the most recent in 2004.

From http://www.writespirit.net/authors/king_bhumibol:

As the need arose for greater precision in rainmaking, and also for the rain to fall over a wider area of the parched paddies, King Bhumibol developed the "Super Sandwich" technique. In 2002 [sic] he was granted a patent [by European Union] for the "Super Sandwich", making it his fourth patent. He is believed to be the only member of a royal house to hold patents for his inventions.

In early 2005, cloud seeding more than 1,000 times in less than one month was instrumental in easing the most severe drought in seven years. This drought affected more than 11 million people. Water levels in rivers and dams fell dramatically and rice paddies across the country became scorched and cracked.

The King personally directed operations from his command centre in Hua Hin where planes were taking off at least three times a day in a desperate effort to raise water levels in the Kaeng Krachan Reservoir. A story in the Taipei Times of April 15th, 2005 describes how water is wrung from the clouds:

"The propeller planes are packed with up to seven people including the pilot, scientists and technicians, all squeezed around large containers of chemicals ranging from silver iodine to ordinary salt and dry ice. Flying at about 3,000m over parched fields, dusty dams and thirsty rivers, the planes fly directly into clouds that most pilots avoid so scientists can dump their loads and wait for rain."

Thailand's success has led to requests for technical assistance from neighbouring Cambodia, as well as Indonesia, the Philippines, Oman and, as recently as February 2007, from the East African nation of Tanzania. Thai experts advise that cloud seeding is only effective under certain circumstances: the cloud cover must be suitable and the humidity levels higher than 60%.

Rainmaking is only one of the many environmental and agricultural projects to which this royal pioneer is committed. He is also deeply involved in issues such as pollution, over-logging, soil erosion and poverty.

In 2006, the Secretary-General of the United Nations, Kofi Annan, awarded King Bhumibol the UNDP's inaugural Human Development Lifetime Achievement Award for his dedication to improving the lives of the Thai people.

and from BBC in 2003:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2940430.stm

[harrry]

quote

Another, and quite unusual, example of His Majesty's thought provoking and innovative projects is that of the Royal Rainmaking. King Bhumibol was acutely aware that several areas of his Kingdom suffered from periodic drought especially the arid plateau of Northeast Thailand (I-San). In fact, at one time in I-san, monsoon storm clouds had built over the plateau but rain was not falling. A program of chemically "seeding" the cloud formations, with hygroscopic chemicals, might provide the answer. King Bhumibol researched the project personally, took opinion from experts in Israel and the United States, and compiled a "what to do" handbook. The handbook was presented to a Special Task Force in 1999 and there are now six rainmaking "basins" throughout the nation (including Chiang Mai and Phrae). This Royal Rainmaking Project claimed the Outstanding Innovative Award from Brussels, Belgium, in 2001 and was also declared one of the two most interesting projects at the 7th International Weather Modification Forum.

http://www.auswathai.austhai.biz/Home/thai-monarchy/a-salute----to-his-majesty--king-bhumibol

end quote

This gives a little more of the background to His Majesty's interest in rainmaking and his important work on improving rainmaking techniques to suit the Thai cloud conditions and topography.

Edited August 7, 2010 by harrry

[Hawk]

Yes, I did read what she said carefully, I was trying to make a point without getting banned by suggesting that the method used here in Thailand is exactly the same as the method used in the US during the 50s and was given to the Thai government during the 60s for military purposes.

Do you have a source for that claim? I can find no mention anywhere on the web that shows Americans using either of the two technologies for which the King holds patents.

The Americans, Russians, Chinese and various other countries use a variety of different rain making techniques some the same as what we are discussing here. Look and you will find.

As for the Americans showing the Thais how to do cloud seeding, check out "Operation Popeye" from the Vietnam war era, the Thais were shown how to make rain in order to hinder the activities of the Thai communists infiltrating various areas of the North.

Linky Lou: http://en.wikipedia....peration_Popeye

By the way your link; http://www.writespir.../king_bhumibol: doesn't show anything other than an error message.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Hawk

[Hawk]

In Australia' date=' CSIRO's activities in Tasmania in the 1960s were successful^[31]. Seeding over the Hydro-Electricity Commission catchment area on the Central Plateau achieved rainfall increases as high as 30% in autumn. The Tasmanian experiments were so successful that the Commission has regularly undertaken seeding ever since in mountainous parts of the State.

The above abbreviated quote has been taken from the wiki entry on cloud seeding, and it seems that Australia is quite capable of cloud seeding without seeking help from any Asian sources. Nearly 50 years of successful rain making. So why does Queensland need help when the Australian government know exactly how to increase rainfall, and have been doing so since the 60s?

It makes one wonder where this story that we are discussing actually originated from?

Edited August 7, 2010 by Hawk

[sambai]

If you bother to read the relevant articles you will see that Vincent Schaefer invented the principle of cloud seeding, with other scientists contributing to the details afterwards.

I think we're wasting our time cmsally 555 It's called brainwashing.

Edited August 7, 2010 by sambai

[sbk]

If you bother to read the relevant articles you will see that Vincent Schaefer invented the principle of cloud seeding, with other scientists contributing to the details afterwards.

I think we're wasting our time cmsally 555 It's called brainwashing.

HM the King holds patents in specific technologies and techniques related to rainmaking. I do hope that makes it clearer and we can all drop this rather pointless argument.

If you cannot grasp the concept of patentable techniques of existing technologies then please do some research online rather than attacking something you do not really understand. cheers

[Nignoy]

I suggest that prior to commenting, folks have a look at the Queensland government's public information on whether or not there is or has been a drought.

http://www.longpaddo...eport/index.php

I am not a farmer, nor a specialist in soil conditions. However, an estimate of 1.4% of land area experiencing drought like conditions, does add some context to the discussion and one can draw one's own conclusions.

My understanding is that parts of Queensland are still recovering from flooding. I have no idea about the press release reliability. If the government of Queensland sent a request, then the letter is in the public domain, at least in Australia and I am unable to find the request. Perhaps, MCOT can release the text to help the discussion along.

Queensland government and press release reliability in one sentence now you are being rediculous I used to live in a cute little Sunshine coast hamlet near Bribie island, which used to have a major flood problem every couple of years but never suffered any personal damage tour home, and we could put up with fishing in the back yard for short periods, but there have been 10,000houses built in the shire resulting in natural waterways being changed and new roads acting as dams,now in the rainy seasonyou have up to 4 floods a year , and still be on level 5 water restrictions , 200litres of town water per day per house.If here is not a drought ?? why the Fxxx does the Queensland Govt and its town councils pay upto 3500$ to every household that fits rainwater tanks and connects them to the house for domestic use!! :jap:

[Hardie]

Yes, I did read what she said carefully, I was trying to make a point without getting banned by suggesting that the method used here in Thailand is exactly the same as the method used in the US during the 50s and was given to the Thai government during the 60s for military purposes.

Do you have a source for that claim? I can find no mention anywhere on the web that shows Americans using either of the two technologies for which the King holds patents.

In 1955 the King became the world's first to hold a patent when he invented the original 'sandwich' rainmaking technology, in which two planes seed warm and cool clouds at differing altitudes, causing vapour droplets to form and fall to earth as rain. He continued his rainmaking research and earned further patents, the most recent in 2004.

From http://www.writespir.../king_bhumibol:

The Thai governments own publications indicate that they not only learned from the Americans and others, but that 1955 was only the year of initial interest, nothing more: http://thailand.prd....ing/father.html

"His Majesty donated his private funds to launch the Royal Rainmaking Project... conducted intensive research and experimentation over several years from various models applied by various countries, such as the United States, Australia, and Israel. After initial research, the first practical experiment took place over a mountain barrier at Khao Yai National Park in Nakhon Ratchasima Province in July 1969... (from 1988 to 1999) an essential part of the program was the transfer of US technology to the royal rainmaking operations.

Interestingly the application itself even alludes to its origins as ancient (if unscientific): http://www.freepaten...05/0056705.html

"In the old days, people in this North-East region cleverly launched a firework to function as a traditional cloud seeding device to cause chemical burning underneath the cloud resulting in rainfall. They had to carefully observe behaviour of the frogs in the locality as it is well-known that frogs are animal able to indicate the possibility of rainfall," it says. In fact there are at least 16 patents pending in the US concerned with weather modification, including the king's: http://ip.com/usapp-ipc-E01H-13.htm

Bottom line from the European Patent Office: "The granting of the patent does not say whether it is a good patent or a bad patent and does not mean that it has been checked technically but that yes it seems plausible," said EPO spokesman Rainer Osterwalder.

This whole thread would seem much ado about nothing if it didn't seem so much like a press release being passed off as fact- to be handed down for generations in Thailand- at a time when critical thinking is so necessary to the country's future. The recent civil violence and saber-rattling against Cambodia are good examples of this lack of critical thinking and the excesses of partisan loyalty. PR is just that. Historical and scientific data are there for the taking, but it's up to the individual to avail themselves of it. We westerners need to be patient in a system where rote learning is the norm.

[animatic]

If you bother to read the relevant articles you will see that Vincent Schaefer invented the principle of cloud seeding, with other scientists contributing to the details afterwards.

I think we're wasting our time cmsally 555 It's called brainwashing.

HM the King holds patents in specific technologies and techniques related to rainmaking. I do hope that makes it clearer and we can all drop this rather pointless argument.

If you cannot grasp the concept of patentable techniques of existing technologies then please do some research online rather than attacking something you do not really understand. cheers

Agreed.

And try and understand the concept of ;

technologies 'built from and added to existing technologies', each independently patented,

and when multiple patented technologies are combined the effectiveness increases for the application.

That is the case here.

Oh and these last two comments are from two farangs,

so the brainwashing comment hardly can apply.

[Hawk]

Yes, I did read what she said carefully, I was trying to make a point without getting banned by suggesting that the method used here in Thailand is exactly the same as the method used in the US during the 50s and was given to the Thai government during the 60s for military purposes.

Do you have a source for that claim? I can find no mention anywhere on the web that shows Americans using either of the two technologies for which the King holds patents.

In 1955 the King became the world's first to hold a patent when he invented the original 'sandwich' rainmaking technology, in which two planes seed warm and cool clouds at differing altitudes, causing vapour droplets to form and fall to earth as rain. He continued his rainmaking research and earned further patents, the most recent in 2004.

I really don't think that the King had any patent in 1955 as he was just starting to take an interest in all things farming at that time, watching the farmers and how they went about their daily tasks etc.

The history of Thailand has been "adjusted" to suit the needs of the "few" in order to convince the multitudes. So, after a number of years fiction has now become fact in this country and history will continue to be manipulated by the powers that be for their own ends. And "adjusting" the facts is easy as Thai children never question their elders, and so it will go on. Like a few months ago we were discussing the 1976 student thing down at Tammassat, but many of the facts have now been altered, and when I wrote on here what I saw in person that day people refused to believe me as they preferred the Bangkok Post version of events. Strange because I happen to be watching the whole thing.

[sabaijai]

Yes, I did read what she said carefully, I was trying to make a point without getting banned by suggesting that the method used here in Thailand is exactly the same as the method used in the US during the 50s and was given to the Thai government during the 60s for military purposes.

Do you have a source for that claim? I can find no mention anywhere on the web that shows Americans using either of the two technologies for which the King holds patents.

In 1955 the King became the world's first to hold a patent when he invented the original 'sandwich' rainmaking technology, in which two planes seed warm and cool clouds at differing altitudes, causing vapour droplets to form and fall to earth as rain. He continued his rainmaking research and earned further patents, the most recent in 2004.

I really don't think that the King had any patent in 1955 as he was just starting to take an interest in all things farming at that time, watching the farmers and how they went about their daily tasks etc.

Hawk, you've made a few unsubstantiated accusations. How about backing up your claims with cited references with regard to the topic at hand?

[harrry]

What I find a little strange is that the original article was a press release of the Royal Thai Embassy in Singapore. I would have felt that the Royal Thai Embassy in Canberra would have been a more apropriate place.

The work of the King has been and continues to be of importance to Thailand in this and other fields. It stands on its merits which are many. It does not need puff and poor writing from people trying to glorify him and his country.

Edited August 8, 2010 by harrry

[Hawk]

Hawk, you've made a few unsubstantiated accusations. How about backing up your claims with cited references with regard to the topic at hand?

Show me which accusations you are referring to and I will do my best to find those references for you and for anyone else who thinks that Thai history, as portrayed by the Thais themselves, in this glorious year of 2010 is accurate and true.

I gave you the "operation popeye" reference and "Hardie" gave you the reference about Thailand receiving cloud seeding technology from the Americans and a few other places.

And let me ask you what patent did the King supposedly hold in 1955 before the rain making issue even came to Thailand?

Edited August 8, 2010 by Hawk

[RedBullHorn]

Yes, I did read what she said carefully, I was trying to make a point without getting banned by suggesting that the method used here in Thailand is exactly the same as the method used in the US during the 50s and was given to the Thai government during the 60s for military purposes.

Do you have a source for that claim? I can find no mention anywhere on the web that shows Americans using either of the two technologies for which the King holds patents.

In 1955 the King became the world's first to hold a patent when he invented the original 'sandwich' rainmaking technology, in which two planes seed warm and cool clouds at differing altitudes, causing vapour droplets to form and fall to earth as rain. He continued his rainmaking research and earned further patents, the most recent in 2004.

I really don't think that the King had any patent in 1955 as he was just starting to take an interest in all things farming at that time, watching the farmers and how they went about their daily tasks etc.

Hawk, you've made a few unsubstantiated accusations. How about backing up your claims with cited references with regard to the topic at hand?

sabaijai, how about you show us the claims of his majesty's 1955 patent ?

Please read post # 83

or this http://thailand.prd....ing/father.html

( it reads at the bottom of the page :

Foreign Office

The Government Public Relations Department

Rama VI Road, Soi 30, Bangkok 10400, Thailand

Tel : (66-2) 618-2323 ext. 1700 Fax : (66-2) 618-2358 E-mail : [email protected] )

Edited August 8, 2010 by RedBullHorn

[cmsally]

Looking for patents only seems to turn up one issued in 2006 for rainmaking.

European Patent Database

Searching on Google patent search turns up the same.

Edited August 8, 2010 by cmsally

[Hawk]

To, Sabaijai,

His Majesty the King in 1999 discovered a new technique to increase cloud density at both upper and lower levels simultaneously to increase the amount and extent of rainfall. The royal rainmaking team tried out the new technique and it proved to be a very efficient way of inducing rain. He named the new cloud-seeding technique "Super Sandwich."

This quote was taken from here; http://thailand.prd....ing/father.html

1999 not 1955 a vast difference in the number of years don't you think?

All the information is readily available to the inquiring mind. But as Thais refuse to even listen then they will never see it and anyway they refuse to believe anything except their "adjusted" history.

Look back and you will see "chantorn" (post 41) wanted to have the Encyclopedia banned because it gave a different version of history that she did not want to believe. Incredible!

Edited August 8, 2010 by Hawk