Getting Started In Chiang Mai

[Somnambulist]

I’m a soon-to-be first-time gardener. I’ve bought and read Mel Bartholomew’s All New Square Foot Gardening (thanks for the headsup, Jandtaa) and I’m going to start with one 4X4 raised bed (120X120cm) with six inches (15cm) of soil. I want to use local materials where possible so I’d like to avoid buying imported peat moss and vermiculite. My ex-neighbor, a farmer, gave me four sacks of cow manure and he says it’s ready to use. It doesn’t reek but he says keep it dry or it will. I’ve also bought rice husks and a bit of dried coconut husks. First of all, how can I tell if the manure is really ready? Communication with my neighbor was tough because it had to go through my wife. Assuming it’s ready, what’s a good ratio of manure to rice husks? (I bought the coconut just to line the bottom for drainage.)

Planting – Is transplanting absolutely necessary? I want to keep this as simple as possible since I’m a total beginner so I’d rather not. Oh, speaking of planting, is now an OK time of year for planting? The book discusses various coverings for protection against rain, sun and insects but for now I just want to grow some veggies that are hardy enough to survive the rain. Or is that a bad idea?

Lastly, I need seeds. I want to buy local if possible. I’ve seen seeds for sale at Khomtien Market. I read somewhere in this forum that Khomtien seeds may be of questionable quality. Is there a better in country source? My raised bed will have 16 individual squares so I can try lots of different veggies but what are some of the easiest to grow things for a beginner. A little success the first time out would greatly encourage me and impress the wife as well. Well, I think I’ve puked out the most important questions. Any help at all would be much appreciated.

[drtreelove]

That's an exciting adventure that you are undertaking and I wish you the best experience, good exercise and healthy, tasty food.

I dont' know that book, but if Jandtaa has recommended it then I would take it to note. I worked at a biodynamic-french intensive research garden in California many years ago with John Jeavons the author of How to Grow More Vegetables

http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0898154154 and learned many of the principles of raised bed organic gardening. I came to firmly believe in the superiority that system. I don't know what similarities there are in the book you mention.

But one thing you should be sure to get right is the proper use of the organic matter that you have obtained. Basic issue is that you should not plant directly into raw organic matter (which has not been composted or aged) because it will require a considerable draw on the nutrient resources in the soil for the decomposition process, to the detriment of your plants. Organic matter (manure, ground coconut shells, rice hulls) should be composted first or mixed with the mineral soil (native or imported) and allowed to mature for a month or so in order for the intitial, high nitrogen requirement decomposition to take place before you plant the bed. You can add raw organic matter to the surface as a mulch layer, but don't plant directly into soil/organic medium that has not been partially decomposed. The exception is that if you add a ntirogen source, like manure, then the other raw organic matter will have the nitrogen it needs and not draw as much from the soil. But I would still let it sit fallow for a month before planting. Getting the mixture right, percentage of each component is not an exact science, but you should strive for at least 5% organic matter content in the soil. The manure content should be very conservative.

It's hard to know the exact condition of the manure that you were given without knowing the history. If it's moist and stinky, then it's probably too fresh to dig in and plant into, it will be too "hot" and could burn your new little plant starts. If it's dry and powdery, then it has probably been aged in a pile where some decomposition has taken place, some of the hot nitrogen has leached out, and you could mix a limited amount with your rice husks and soil. For a 4 ft x 4 ft bed, four sacks of manure in 6 inches of soil may be too much, start with one.

I would caution you about creating a layer of coconut material at the bottom. Layers of different material can create problems for drainage, contrary to what you might think. It's better to have a homogenous soil medium and maybe loosen and mix the top layer of the native soil at the bottom of the bed with the soil you will plant into. If the native soil is reasonably good, then use it, mix in your organic matter instead of bringing in totally different soil.

We are approaching the end of the rainy season and start of the cooler weather. It's a little tricky to decide what to plant, and it depends on how soon you will have it together to plant. Some things will grow well, others it's best to wait until late Feburary or March when it starts to warm up. I hope other members will contribute and advise you what to plant when. Ka Naa (Chinese Kale) is easy, Tua Pak Yao (long beans) is too, but requires some space and trellis support.

Some things you can plant seeds directly in the ground, but it's usually better to germinate and grow in small pots or flats while you are preparing your bed and soil, then plant out the starts when you are totally ready.

If I were you, and I wanted to get started and get some vegetables started that could mature for harvest in the next two months before the December cold nights, I would buy some ready-made sack compost to mix with your soil, and save the raw organic matter you have to start a compost pile or for mulch. At Kamtieng plant market in CM you can get "Maw Din" compost from CP (150 to 180 baht per sack) , or a lower cost alternative pictured below (100 baht/sack); and at Dokmai Garden you can buy sacks of real good compost from "Natural Agriculture", it's locally made in Mae Taeng area. Mix the compost up to 50% with your soil. Then try to find some vegetable plants that are already started; not easy to find here, but ask around. You can get your hands dirty and learn a few things, enjoy the products of your labor and new passion, then plan your next beds and be ready for the spring growing season.

A bed covering is wise to protect the young plants from getting beaten down with a a heavy rain like we had last night. The black or green shade cloth with bamboo poles is cheap and easy.

The seeds that you find at Kamtieng from the major Thai companies should be good. Don't buy more that you will use, germination rates will decrease if you save them over for next year or more. don

Edited September 24, 2010 by drtreelove

[Somnambulist]

Hi Don,

I followed your link to the Jeavons book. Will have to track down a copy because I don’t think Amazon’s used book sellers will ship to LOS. Fascinating. You’ve certainly given me lots to consider so I’ll need a day to do more reading before I come back with my next questions. In the meantime, FYI, Mel Bartholomew was an industrial efficiency expert before he retired young and got into gardening. He uses only raised beds and uses “Mel’s Mix” – 1/3rd portions of peat moss, vermiculite and commercial compost. He insists on attaching a grid above the soil so that you can visualize each one sq. foot section and he has simple but elegant spacing solutions. He’s very enthusiastic, to the point of sort of saying he invented raised bed gardening (no mention of the French) but hey, he gets the word out. Apparently, he used to have a show on PBS.

One quick question – before transplanting, Bartholomew uses pure vermiculite to start his plants. What do you use?

Well, gotta run now, but thank you very, very much for taking the time to share your knowledge with me.

[Somnambulist]

Google Books has the J.J. book!

[drtreelove]

One quick question – before transplanting, Bartholomew uses pure vermiculite to start his plants. What do you use?

Well, gotta run now, but thank you very, very much for taking the time to share your knowledge with me.

I like a sandy loam soil. I believe in soil and the "soil-food web", so vermiculite is not something I have used and can comment on with experience. Many people like this material and the benefit of moisture retention and relatively sterile properties that are attributed to it.

If it doesn't decompose and build soil structure and fertility, then I can't accept it as a soil amendment, but that's me, soil fertility through building organic matter content is my thing.

Peat moss is great stuff where available, slightly acid, so good with alkaline soils; but I wouldn't recommend going to the trouble and expense of importing it.

The problem with starting veggies or other plants in soil is the possibility of soil borne diseases that can be present and colonize the seeds or tender young plants, so that is one reason to use a sterile well drained mix for seedlings. I take my chances with sandy soil and usually get a high enough survival rate to make it worthwhile.

[IsaanAussie]

That's an exciting adventure that you are undertaking and I wish you the best experience, good exercise and healthy, tasty food.

I dont' know that book, but if Jandtaa has recommended it then I would take it to note. I worked at a biodynamic-french intensive research garden in California many years ago with John Jeavons the author of How to Grow More Vegetables

http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0898154154 and learned many of the principles of raised bed organic gardening. I came to firmly believe in the superiority that system. I don't know what similarities there are in the book you mention.

But one thing you should be sure to get right is the proper use of the organic matter that you have obtained. Basic issue is that you should not plant directly into raw organic matter (which has not been composted or aged) because it will require a considerable draw on the nutrient resources in the soil for the decomposition process, to the detriment of your plants. Organic matter (manure, ground coconut shells, rice hulls) should be composted first or mixed with the mineral soil (native or imported) and allowed to mature for a month or so in order for the intitial, high nitrogen requirement decomposition to take place before you plant the bed. You can add raw organic matter to the surface as a mulch layer, but don't plant directly into soil/organic medium that has not been partially decomposed. The exception is that if you add a ntirogen source, like manure, then the other raw organic matter will have the nitrogen it needs and not draw as much from the soil. But I would still let it sit fallow for a month before planting. Getting the mixture right, percentage of each component is not an exact science, but you should strive for at least 5% organic matter content in the soil. The manure content should be very conservative.

It's hard to know the exact condition of the manure that you were given without knowing the history. If it's moist and stinky, then it's probably too fresh to dig in and plant into, it will be too "hot" and could burn your new little plant starts. If it's dry and powdery, then it has probably been aged in a pile where some decomposition has taken place, some of the hot nitrogen has leached out, and you could mix a limited amount with your rice husks and soil. For a 4 ft x 4 ft bed, four sacks of manure in 6 inches of soil may be too much, start with one.

I would caution you about creating a layer of coconut material at the bottom. Layers of different material can create problems for drainage, contrary to what you might think. It's better to have a homogenous soil medium and maybe loosen and mix the top layer of the native soil at the bottom of the bed with the soil you will plant into. If the native soil is reasonably good, then use it, mix in your organic matter instead of bringing in totally different soil.

We are approaching the end of the rainy season and start of the cooler weather. It's a little tricky to decide what to plant, and it depends on how soon you will have it together to plant. Some things will grow well, others it's best to wait until late Feburary or March when it starts to warm up. I hope other members will contribute and advise you what to plant when. Ka Naa (Chinese Kale) is easy, Tua Pak Yao (long beans) is too, but requires some space and trellis support.

Some things you can plant seeds directly in the ground, but it's usually better to germinate and grow in small pots or flats while you are preparing your bed and soil, then plant out the starts when you are totally ready.

If I were you, and I wanted to get started and get some vegetables started that could mature for harvest in the next two months before the December cold nights, I would buy some ready-made sack compost to mix with your soil, and save the raw organic matter you have to start a compost pile or for mulch. At Kamtieng plant market in CM you can get "Maw Din" compost from CP (150 to 180 baht per sack) , or a lower cost alternative pictured below (100 baht/sack); and at Dokmai Garden you can buy sacks of real good compost from "Natural Agriculture", it's locally made in Mae Taeng area. Mix the compost up to 50% with your soil. Then try to find some vegetable plants that are already started; not easy to find here, but ask around. You can get your hands dirty and learn a few things, enjoy the products of your labor and new passion, then plan your next beds and be ready for the spring growing season.

A bed covering is wise to protect the young plants from getting beaten down with a a heavy rain like we had last night. The black or green shade cloth with bamboo poles is cheap and easy.

The seeds that you find at Kamtieng from the major Thai companies should be good. Don't buy more that you will use, germination rates will decrease if you save them over for next year or more. don

Dear Dr,

I am making compost at the moment and selling to local villagers for a fraction of the numbers you quoted. Mate find me some customers and we are in business. How about 75 baht for a 30kg feed bag full, is there a market?

Isaan Aussie