Pigs 101 (A Start)

[RedBullHorn]

I need some answer here, i have a pig in the herd that had swollen eyelid (both eyes), i notice it for a month and a half now, but since it is eating well and growing well, i decided to ignore it's problem thinking that it could be genetic. Today i notice it right eye is totally cover by the swell as days went by and the left eye is almost cover as well by the swollen eyelid. The swell will grow around inside the eyelid, not half the eye but rounding the individual eye and as it grow making the pupil bearing visible by me looking at it...this pig weight and body structure is ideal and it is active. I kind of worry that it may have visibility problem, it's not blind but just the swollen eyelids are growing and impairing it's sight.

Thanks in advance for any advice or treatment method.

[IsaanAussie]

I need some answer here, i have a pig in the herd that had swollen eyelid (both eyes), i notice it for a month and a half now, but since it is eating well and growing well, i decided to ignore it's problem thinking that it could be genetic. Today i notice it right eye is totally cover by the swell as days went by and the left eye is almost cover as well by the swollen eyelid. The swell will grow around inside the eyelid, not half the eye but rounding the individual eye and as it grow making the pupil bearing visible by me looking at it...this pig weight and body structure is ideal and it is active. I kind of worry that it may have visibility problem, it's not blind but just the swollen eyelids are growing and impairing it's sight.

Thanks in advance for any advice or treatment method.

Sounds very much like an infection since it is in both eyes. Try some antibiotics. Is there any discharge from the eyes?

[RedBullHorn]

Just spoken to my supplier, he said it could be genetic and not a big concern because some of his and his customers have them too, eventually it will not be able to see due to the swell inner eyelids covering its eyes but it is not blind with eye sight problem...It will use it senses to navigate around, for food and water...He ask me if it is healthy and active and i said she is beautiful and there have been no sign of stress, she is very capable fending off the others when challenge.

P/S: No discharge, it is just like us people when we have a swollen eyelid

[IsaanAussie]

Just spoken to my supplier, he said it could be genetic and not a big concern because some of his and his customers have them too, eventually it will not be able to see due to the swell inner eyelids covering its eyes but it is not blind with eye sight problem...It will use it senses to navigate around, for food and water...He ask me if it is healthy and active and i said she is beautiful and there have been no sign of stress, she is very capable fending off the others when challenge.

P/S: No discharge, it is just like us people when we have a swollen eyelid

Did a bit of digging around. You might like to try either

Drops and ointments for eyes

·

Tetracycline ointment: Put a little ointment in the corner of the eye, 4 or 5 times a day, for 3 to 5 days.

·

Betamethazone and neomycin eye drops: Put drops in twice a day for 3 to 4 days.

[RedBullHorn]

Thank you so much ! I appreciate it IA.

[shaggy1969]

Thank you so much ! I appreciate it IA.

Hope your pigs eyes are better soon.

[shaggy1969]

We do have a small problem that maybe you could give us some advice with,we have a Duroc gilt that is almost a year old now and has shown no signs of coming on heat.Seeing as we do not have a boar to help induce this,is are there any other ways to help this along?

Shaggy

Shaggy,

At a year old she is getting to be a big pig and an expensive one. Time to make a decision. Now I have gilts that are very difficult to pick their seasons. One that didnt vocalise, no mounting, no swelling, ate normally. Without a boar very hard. We have boars and heat check twice a day. Finally resolved for my gilt that she was only receptive for 8 to 12 hours, easy to miss. The boar was the only one that knew.

You can get a hormone treatment that will bring a gilt into season within 3 to 5 days. It cost about 250 baht per dose. Gestvet or something like that. Ihad a vet get me some for 4 gilts but it was a complete failure, he never explained what was wrong.

Isaan Aussie

We finally managed to get our Duroc mated up.We have a wild pig in the next pen that was also showing no signs heat so we borrowed a wild boar from a friend of ours and that seemed to excite our Duroc and we could put a boar to her the following day.So fingers crossed we should have a busy pen soon.

[IsaanAussie]

Amazing isn't it. They always seem to go for the biggest, oldest, smelliest and ulgiest boar. Arh, women, who can pick their tastes.

[shaggy1969]

Amazing isn't it. They always seem to go for the biggest, oldest, smelliest and ulgiest boar. Arh, women, who can pick their tastes.

I think our gilt would of much more preferred the wild boar instead of the ugly brute that was two times her size and weight on top of her.....he seemed to enjoy it tho judging from the photos my wife sent me.

[IsaanAussie]

My two new boars are coming on rapidly. The landrace is over 100kgs at about 5 months. The duroc is just a ball of muscle and must go 70 kgs, coming up 4 months old. His favorite pastime is making love to his rubber drinking bowl so he seems to be training himself for a future of semen collection.

My working duroc boar is a wonderful friendly pig but not genetically as good. He seems to sense that his future is not looking so good in a few months when the pure bred youngsters are proven.

My latest litter was from one of the original sows who is now at parity 5 but still produced 12 piglets so she will get another turn. Her sister is due any day and we will see what happens there. They are still at the old sty, the last two there now.

I have daily offers for pigs in the new herd and a queue of people waiting for piglets so the future is not looking too bad.

[RedBullHorn]

Amazing isn't it. They always seem to go for the biggest, oldest, smelliest and ulgiest boar. Arh, women, who can pick their tastes.

I would rate this very high if the rating system is still applicable, that was funny mate

Anyway, i've given up applying anything to it eyes, too elusive and resistance ...

I will let it be for now and will be keeping close watch over her.

[shaggy1969]

My two new boars are coming on rapidly. The landrace is over 100kgs at about 5 months. The duroc is just a ball of muscle and must go 70 kgs, coming up 4 months old. His favorite pastime is making love to his rubber drinking bowl so he seems to be training himself for a future of semen collection.

My working duroc boar is a wonderful friendly pig but not genetically as good. He seems to sense that his future is not looking so good in a few months when the pure bred youngsters are proven.

My latest litter was from one of the original sows who is now at parity 5 but still produced 12 piglets so she will get another turn. Her sister is due any day and we will see what happens there. They are still at the old sty, the last two there now.

I have daily offers for pigs in the new herd and a queue of people waiting for piglets so the future is not looking too bad.

Sounds like thing are going well for you.

I think that your Landrace boar will be a brute of an animal by the time he is ready to service your sows!!! I am interested to hear the what results you get from the new boars and how they compare Landrace/Duroc and Duroc/Duroc,whatever the outcome i hope that your litters are big and healthy

12 piglets is a good litter,were they all a good size?what do you do with the runts?do you sell the litters as a job lot or do you break the litters up ?We had a good learning experience with our last litter of 12 (10 actually because we sold 2 to a family member),we had many buyers for this litter but ended up selling them to a farmer in the next town and agreed the price and the time he would collect them...everything sorted i thought.Until the day came when he was supposed to collect them....we got a phone call saying that he couldnt make it that day and would be there the following day to collect them....well the following day turned out to be 6 days later and in the meantime the piglets just about sucked our pig dry....needless to say i was pis#ed and told my wife to tell him that this was the last time that could happen and if he wanted pigs from us in the future he had to put a deposit down and if he didnt collect on the agreed date then they would be sold on and he would lose his deposit !!!! Maybe a bit harsh on my side but we had turned away many other customers that were prepared to pay a better price...also got a bag of pig food from him ...maybe it could cost us some customers in the future because i am sure he went around telling people about that he was unfairly dealt with,but to me it was a good way of letting them know that we do not like being messed around.

Shaggy

[IsaanAussie]

Shaggy,

I have everything crossed for the first litters we will have here at our own farm. To date the others have been bred from two duroc boars I have had at the old sty, the last litter and the other one due in days will be the last of that line. My current boar is a transition situation that come from a pairing with a friends boar and one of my sows. He works very well and is an easy animal to handle but the test will be in his first offspring. He has eight sows in pig, a 100% pregnancy rate, so far so good. At this stage I am assuming that I will be selling them as complete litters. I hope to keep a batch of 4 sisters from the current or one of the next two litters to fill the sow book up to 16 again. If anything special eventuates from those piglets. I need to get some new blood into the breeding herd as well. Get the sty finished first.

The last litter of 12 was a bit of a surprise as it was the fifth from the sow and the fourth one had been below average. The piglets werent the largest we have had but are very evenly sized. The herdmanship at the old sty has been an issue and we have only averaged 9 survivors per litter there. That needs improvement.

Currently my plan is to sell complete litters if possible. We have four buyers lined up. Mid term plans include selling pregnant gilts and sows as well as partly grown pigs as part of herd improvement. Longer term will include grow finish facilities.

I had a similar experience with a buyer but have set the pricing structure based on a base price plus a per kg rate that starts high. This means it is cheaper for the customer to collect as soon as possible. I also have announced dates of sale and fixed prices to people who play around, no promises to anyone, first to arrive with the cash gets the piglets. I had one guy who took a most of one litter tell us that they were not growing very well and they were too expensive. I kept 4 gilts from that litter for myself and they were going well so I thought at the time he was just trying it on or wasnt feeding them properly. Guess what, he's back and out bidding other people. TIT. All [art of the game.

Runts are an issue, luckily we haven't had many. Firstly IMHO they do not catch up so they have to go as quickly as possible. We have sold them as suckling pigs to restaurants, to people wanting to grow a cheap pig for themselves and to locals for religious rites.

Isaan Aussie

[shaggy1969]

Isaanaussie,

I am hoping that we can average out at 10-11 piglets,maybe we are being optimistic and i would be more than happy with a steady 10 per sow.if we didn't have bad luck with one of our gilts we would be averaging 11 by now,but i know that isn't an accurate figure seeing as tho our herd is only small now.I hope that all goes well with your new boars and i think that having good breeding stock is the key to large and healthy litter and of course good food and cleanliness.

Our future plan is to raise our own pigs for market and sell off any that we can not raise ourselves and to try and work them around the festival times which seems to be the best time to sell them,it's seems to be working like that for our ducks and chickens.The open pen that we have will be for any runts that we have and the plan is to raise them slower and cheaper and to sell to the locals or for our own consumption.

'II had a similar experience with a buyer but have set the pricing structure based on a base price plus a per kg rate that starts high.' i like that idea and it would encourage the buyer to come and collect them on time.Unfortunately we can not do that yet because we have no extra holding area for our weaners,but definitely something to think about in the future when our next building is up and running.Ans as for the guy that said that his pigs were not growing well...i would be very surprised if he was feeding them well enough to make weight....or he was just trying to get a better price next time.I really have a pet hatred for that type of game,especially if they try to spread the word around that the pigs are no good (not that you said he did).

Shaggy

[sawudon]

hi,

I'm new for farm forums and would like to know about pig farm and fish farm how should i start with by the way i am Thai try to write English i apology i'm in uk thinking about start someting to do when i go back thailand next time

[Tod Daniels]

hi,

I'm new for farm forums and would like to know about pig farm and fish farm how should i start with by the way i am Thai try to write English i apology i'm in uk thinking about start someting to do when i go back thailand next time

Start here FIRST:

Tips for Farming Forum Newbies

[shaggy1969]

hi,

I'm new for farm forums and would like to know about pig farm and fish farm how should i start with by the way i am Thai try to write English i apology i'm in uk thinking about start someting to do when i go back thailand next time

Hello sawudon and welcome.

I am not one of the most experienced pig farmers on this forum but if you are thinking of starting a pig/fish farm then you will need a building for your pigs, some pigs, a pond and some fish 55555 !!!!

Joking aside,you will need good breeding/fattening stock,a good supply of clean drinking water (cold),clean habitat for you pigs and good medical care.Pigs are easy to raise but to have successful pigs making good weight or litters is another matter all together.Hope this helps and good luck !!!

Shaggy

P.s don't worry about your English writing,it's a lot better than my Thai writing

[IsaanAussie]

SUBJECT - Parasites, BIOSECURITY, Organic Pigs and Pork

With the onset of the wet season and the increase in parasite load, I have had to rethink my operation in terms of protecting my breeding herd. To date I have tried to stay away from regular vaccine usage in general. In the case of parasites I have used in feed wormers for the internals and repellant sprays for the externals. That has been effective in the past but of late my breedings sows have had some serious infestations externally. Combined with the weather a few of the resulting wounds have quickly lead to nasty infections which have required countless hours of care to heal. The worst effected were two sows about to farrow.

I have decided to start using injectable Ivermectin across the herd. If anyone has an alternative I would like to hear about it.

I have attached a copy of a FAO Biosecurity document for pig famers which I think is a good start for those in the industry. It is written for operations in regions such as Thailand so looks at issues like sticky nose neighbours, sorry, cultural issues.

BIOSECURITY for pigs FAO.pdf

I am looking into organic certification for my pig operation. As yet I have not found Thai standards for this so if anyone has some I would welcome a copy. What I am particularly interested in is the requirements for drug usage. In other parts of the world vaccines and preventative treatments are allowed as long as withdrawal periods are obeyed. Also there are dividing lines which allow organic pork to be grown from non-organic breeding stock, note I said pork not pigs. There are a lot of grey areas here and I for one would appreciate any input from those that have factual experience/information on the subject here in Thailand.

Isaan Aussie

[lucky2103]

Any idea about the actual farmgate prices ?

This one (http://ptg.igetweb.com/index.php?mo=3&art=494930) says that prices have been update on June 4th...this is in the future ???

Furthermore, the last entry is dated May 17th, so it's considered outdated.

This CP site (http://www.cpffeed.com/price_detail.html?product=1) hasn't been updated since February, so it's useless.

I tried the google search but the results returned are outdated as well. Some sites even show prices dated back to 2009.

Any help ?

[IsaanAussie]

Any idea about the actual farmgate prices ?

This one (http://ptg.igetweb.c...mo=3&art=494930) says that prices have been update on June 4th...this is in the future ???

Furthermore, the last entry is dated May 17th, so it's considered outdated.

This CP site (http://www.cpffeed.c....html?product=1) hasn't been updated since February, so it's useless.

I tried the google search but the results returned are outdated as well. Some sites even show prices dated back to 2009.

Any help ?

Hi Lucky,

Here is a site link to a pork production and sales network here in Thailand. It was posted by Shaggy some time ago and it gives regional price ranges.

http://www.mooyaso.net/

The google translator does a fair job turning it into English. Hope it helps

Isaan Aussie

[IsaanAussie]

A Disappointing Outcome - What can be learnt?

Below is a photo of a litter from a first parity gilt. The gestation time was 111 days.

The farrowing was unattended and on arrival the farmer found two piglets on the left breathing, both very cold and close to coma. Despite all attempts those two died as well. The puzzle here is to interrupt what the rest of the litter tells you.

Mummified litter.pdf

I will await any responses or thoughts before offering my own opinion.

Isaan Aussie

[Foreverford]

A Disappointing Outcome - What can be learnt?

Below is a photo of a litter from a first parity gilt. The gestation time was 111 days.

The farrowing was unattended and on arrival the farmer found two piglets on the left breathing, both very cold and close to coma. Despite all attempts those two died as well. The puzzle here is to interrupt what the rest of the litter tells you.

Mummified litter.pdf

I will await any responses or thoughts before offering my own opinion.

Isaan Aussie

Come on folks what do you think? I have a bit of inside info on this so I'll give a clue. the answer can be found in vapor. Fords Forever

[IsaanAussie]

OK so we are offering clues now! Alright, heres one, it is not PRRS.

Heres another, look at the mummified (dark ones on the right) and you will see that they died at different times.

That to me leaves two options and they are both endemic in Thailand, both survive for extended periods of time in the soil.

[shaggy1969]

Come on you guys....put us out of our misery (please)

[IsaanAussie]

OK, my vote is PPV, parvo. There were no signs of sickness in the gilt prior to the birth. It is endemic in Thailand and sows that have had the disease are immune. That immunity is passed to the piglets and lasts for up to 6 months. The thought here is that many small herds may well have the virus present but the piglets are grown and sold whilst still covered by the maternal immunity.

Love to hear from anyone who has a different opinion.

[Foreverford]

So I knew the answer before. Don't think that IA figured it out in the few sentences that he described it in. He was factoring and figuring for a long long time with many other possibilities and strategies based on what would happen with the the future herd and also the potential ramifications from where and what he was actually dealing with. Volumic amounts of reasearch, re-thinking, remembering from what and where his herd had originated and been exposed. No easy bit of forensics to say the least and to see it now described in a few sentences doesn't do justice to what it took to figure it out and also be able to deal with it. Fruity you were the wizard when it came to hogs but your protege I believe is very close to your status as "hoggy emeritus".

And of course the answer all along was in v a p o r parvo. Fluently Ford Forever

Come on you guys....put us out of our misery (please)

[IsaanAussie]

So I knew the answer before. Don't think that IA figured it out in the few sentences that he described it in. He was factoring and figuring for a long long time with many other possibilities and strategies based on what would happen with the the future herd and also the potential ramifications from where and what he was actually dealing with. Volumic amounts of reasearch, re-thinking, remembering from what and where his herd had originated and been exposed. No easy bit of forensics to say the least and to see it now described in a few sentences doesn't do justice to what it took to figure it out and also be able to deal with it. Fruity you were the wizard when it came to hogs but your protege I believe is very close to your status as "hoggy emeritus".

And of course the answer all along was in v a p o r parvo. Fluently Ford Forever

Come on you guys....put us out of our misery (please)

Too kind FEF, it was a matter of assuming the worst and solving it. Turning a blind eye will cost you the whole herd ultimately. But on occasions you need the resolve and patience to let these things run their course. The pigs effected had been vaccinated as recommended and that had not succeeded. So by exposing the whole herd to each other and planning a few farrowing timings to check immunity and disease progression seemed the best bet to me. I had expected to loose up to three or four litters but only two were effected. The first lost completely, the second (the photo posted) showed progress. The latest litter had no mummifications and only one still born. If next Tuesdays litter is the same then I will rest well knowing that any and all breeding stock exposed are now immune and I have controlled the virus.

The important point here is these things are endemic and you should assume that they will pop up sooner or later. Be that Boy Scout, be prepared and deal with them.

PS Edit: For people grow/finishing pigs. PPV is something you should be aware of but not panic over. Piglets from immune pigs will carry immunity until they are finished. The risk is that some piglets may have come from naive sources and they may be infected by those will temporary maternal immunity. If you have a continuous source you should be OK. If you source from different places then immunise them all. In buying piglets check the status of recent farrowing at the source, mummifications at difference stages (size of the mummies differs) or high numbers of still born piglets are good indicators the disease. Remember the sows usually show no symptoms of disease.

[shaggy1969]

A question folks.....yesterday we lost 1 of our herd from an accident in the farrowing cage,as a result of this we lost our sow and 13 piglets (due to be born tomorrow).I know that we are not meant to get emotionally attached to any members of our herd but this is the 1st time we have lost one and to tell you the truth it hurt.My poor wife sat with the Lyndy until she past away and now is so distraught that she is thinking about stopping with pig farming.My question is has anyone else experienced this? Are we too soft because this may happen again in the future and i do not want my wife to feel like this again.

Shaggy

[IsaanAussie]

A question folks.....yesterday we lost 1 of our herd from an accident in the farrowing cage,as a result of this we lost our sow and 13 piglets (due to be born tomorrow).I know that we are not meant to get emotionally attached to any members of our herd but this is the 1st time we have lost one and to tell you the truth it hurt.My poor wife sat with the Lyndy until she past away and now is so distraught that she is thinking about stopping with pig farming.My question is has anyone else experienced this? Are we too soft because this may happen again in the future and i do not want my wife to feel like this again.

Shaggy

Shaggy, I know how much losing a sow hurts, it has happened to me. I have one due to farrow this morning, hence the reason I am up and online early, waiting.

Sows are special. These are animals that you a close relationship with for two years or more, not just for a few months as one of a pen full of growing pigs. Sows are individual animals that depend on you for their well being and for that of their offspring. Unless you are close to each one you will not have their trust and be able to handle their piglets freely. Everything becomes harder and more stressful for you and especially for the pig.

Are you too soft? No, it only natural to feel the worry and the loss.

Will it happen again? Hopefully not, and it is up to you to eliminate the risk of recurrence. Have the right drugs and gear available to assist when necessary. Learn what lessons you can from this and adjust.

Your sows are expensive assets that have a major impact on farm results, but they are not pets. To be successful IMHO, you have to get tough emotionally on yourself whilst still showing calm control and affection to the pigs. We are present at farrowing to intervene and protect our investment, the awe of watching a birth is the payback not the purpose. We are farmers, not zoo keepers or animal trainers.

[shaggy1969]

A question folks.....yesterday we lost 1 of our herd from an accident in the farrowing cage,as a result of this we lost our sow and 13 piglets (due to be born tomorrow).I know that we are not meant to get emotionally attached to any members of our herd but this is the 1st time we have lost one and to tell you the truth it hurt.My poor wife sat with the Lyndy until she past away and now is so distraught that she is thinking about stopping with pig farming.My question is has anyone else experienced this? Are we too soft because this may happen again in the future and i do not want my wife to feel like this again.

Shaggy

Shaggy, I know how much losing a sow hurts, it has happened to me. I have one due to farrow this morning, hence the reason I am up and online early, waiting.

Sows are special. These are animals that you a close relationship with for two years or more, not just for a few months as one of a pen full of growing pigs. Sows are individual animals that depend on you for their well being and for that of their offspring. Unless you are close to each one you will not have their trust and be able to handle their piglets freely. Everything becomes harder and more stressful for you and especially for the pig.

Are you too soft? No, it only natural to feel the worry and the loss.

Will it happen again? Hopefully not, and it is up to you to eliminate the risk of recurrence. Have the right drugs and gear available to assist when necessary. Learn what lessons you can from this and adjust.

Your sows are expensive assets that have a major impact on farm results, but they are not pets. To be successful IMHO, you have to get tough emotionally on yourself whilst still showing calm control and affection to the pigs. We are present at farrowing to intervene and protect our investment, the awe of watching a birth is the payback not the purpose. We are farmers, not zoo keepers or animal trainers.

Thanks IsaanAussie....wise words.I hope that all went well with your sow and that she provided you with many healthy piglets.