Pigs 101 (A Start)

[wandrinstar]

Some old memories come back.I think it was Hi Gro who introduced the Yukka Tree into their feed.That was the first naturall additive i ever saw improve growth.Another memory.After we had Orphan Children to vist for weekends, on Monday the little Grunters wouldn't eat good..The Kids gave Nice Piggy all the neighbours Bananas on the quiet.

[RedBullHorn]

I do agree, a well planned strategy may be devastated by unforseen nature's forces...

More then half of the pigs that perished could actually be saved. It is natural for people to think "naaa'... it won't be that bad, the most it will just be 20cm of water, no need to move." but when the water is half a metre... " i pray, i hope...Oh my Buddha~ Please stop the flood ! Please save my herd ! "

Even with warning alerted, they half believed and hope for the best.

Just my 2 satang...

[tingtong]

only a thought to add:

it is easier to plan for the flood without the lies that was/is quite ongoing matter, not to mention the man-made part of the situation.

our house is under flood, not 10cm (nonthaburi)...the problem is that the water/flood didnt occur naturally, it was nothing to 1.5m in a day...now, that isnt really how normally flood happen. but if big brother/sister? decide that he needs to protect his house, so break a wall here, erect one there, and open the gates without as much as a day notice prior, there is little chance that you can organize and rescue all you would like to.

guess same goes to pigs too, just as household belongings. neither can really swim, and survive massive amount of water.

[revar]

Hello, I am newto the forum. Just sold my first 19 pigs today. Made a couple of rooky mistakes having 2 3x3 m pens (too small) and swicthing from Sunfeed 954 to Betagro 304 (should have been 303, because whicg has he same protaine content as Sunfeed 954). I was use to asking for Number 4. As a result the average weight was only 92 kg (ranging between 75 and 125). But prices dropped from 70 bath/kg 3 months ago, to 47b/kg today. (word around here is that CP dropped its prces from 70 to 55). I sold for 53 paid in two weeks. But I still made a very small profit and learned a lot. AND HAD A LOT OF FUN. We now have 67 piglets ranging from 6 to 13 kg (bought 2 weeks ago at 3-8 kg) which are at a pen of some friends. We are building our new housing with 6 pens of 4x4meters, a storage shed and (fish)pond. I am thinking of using solar cells for electricity. Does anyone have experience with that? Are they strong enough to power the lights, waterpump and powerhose (to clean pens, not sure how they are called)?

[IsaanAussie]

Hi Revar, welcome to Pigs 101.

If you made a profit you have done well. I am interested in your operation and would like to know why you buy the piglets at 3 to 8 Kg? 7 to 8 kg OK that sounds like 28 day weaned but 3Kg? Still if they are on solids and doubled their weight in two weeks, then I can learn a thing off you. Can you tell us more about your first group of pigs, how long did it take to raise them, what you fed them, anything you wish to share.

My pens are 3x5 metres giving 15 square metres or 1.5 per pig with 10 100kg pigs per pen. Your new pens are 16 sq metres so with 67 piglets that is about the same area allowed with your six new pens. What are you doing with the wastes?

I looked into solar power, it is available here but when you add battery storage etc.. I doubt it is competitive against standard electricity supply. I also looked at biodigesting the wastes to produce methane to power a genset but decided that was a bit too risky given the amount of care taken by Thais. Honestly, if you have power available, use the PEA supply.

I use a power washer to clean every day and believe it is the way to go. I paid a lot for a good quality Italian unit which has served well, but the cheap ones from Big C do as good a job. The best thing is how little water they use. I have a 1" piston pump supplying water to the sty which means to hose out the pens I use about 80 litres a minute of low pressure water which doesnt clean completely. The pressure washer uses 8 litres a minute for a better result. you can also siphon EM into the wash water to help control smell.

Again welcome to the forum.

Isaan Aussie

[revar]

Hi Revar, welcome to Pigs 101.

If you made a profit you have done well. I am interested in your operation and would like to know why you buy the piglets at 3 to 8 Kg? 7 to 8 kg OK that sounds like 28 day weaned but 3Kg? Still if they are on solids and doubled their weight in two weeks, then I can learn a thing off you. Can you tell us more about your first group of pigs, how long did it take to raise them, what you fed them, anything you wish to share.

My pens are 3x5 metres giving 15 square metres or 1.5 per pig with 10 100kg pigs per pen. Your new pens are 16 sq metres so with 67 piglets that is about the same area allowed with your six new pens. What are you doing with the wastes?

I looked into solar power, it is available here but when you add battery storage etc.. I doubt it is competitive against standard electricity supply. I also looked at biodigesting the wastes to produce methane to power a genset but decided that was a bit too risky given the amount of care taken by Thais. Honestly, if you have power available, use the PEA supply.

I use a power washer to clean every day and believe it is the way to go. I paid a lot for a good quality Italian unit which has served well, but the cheap ones from Big C do as good a job. The best thing is how little water they use. I have a 1" piston pump supplying water to the sty which means to hose out the pens I use about 80 litres a minute of low pressure water which doesnt clean completely. The pressure washer uses 8 litres a minute for a better result. you can also siphon EM into the wash water to help control smell.

Again welcome to the forum.

Isaan Aussie

Hoi Isaan Aussie,

Thanks for your reply.

Since it was my first batch of pigs and I did not have any experience, I relied heavily on advice of friends who have been raising pigs (10-20) a time a year.

In my village there are allraedy 30 or more small 5-15 pig operations, with a lot more in a 20 km range. Getting good piglets is often a problem. I buy them from a CP farm which has been supplying my friend for years without too many problems or sickness,. I went her to buy 50 5-8kg piglets but they offered too sell me their 3-5 piglets at a reduced price (I ended up buying their whole supply). I now lost two of those to sickness and one to a scorpion, but the rest of the little ones is now betqween 5 an 6 kg )with two staying behind). I am feeding them Betagro 300 and bananas two times a day. II think they are doing very well, but as I said I also see this as a teaching experience. I can buy the small ones very cheap sometimes, feed them and then either sell them at 8-10 kg or raise them further myself. I am 43 years old and do not have a pension or anything and see the pigfarming and some other sidelines as my long term income. In 54 years It should be my source of income. I am also a teacher but much prefer my pigs!.

My old batch of 19 pigs were fed Sunfeed which everybody used here because they can get it on credit (pay when you sold your pigs). Because of the interest you pay the food costs were high. When my pigs were around 70-90 kg I found out about the interest and switched to Betagro. Unfortunately I switched from number 4 Sunfeed to number 4 Betagro as people call it here. Thuis was totaly wrong since Betagro 304.has only 12% proteine content and my pigs grew only very slowly. I ended up selling them yesterday at an averge weigh of 92 kg (between 72 and 124). 10 of them took 4.5 months and 9 just under 4 months. The reason I sold is that prices are now at 47bath a kg here and I rather not make a loss, since my 66 remaining piglets are going to eat a lot (over 200,000 bath in total). And I need a lot of vcapital for my shop (see below)

I Also have a local Betagro shop in my village now. The owner of the shop I buy my Betagro food from approached me to buy his food at a reduced price and sell ity in my village. We basicly spiltt the profits. This works for both of us since normally the villagers cans afford his food since they have to pay in cash. I pay him in cash and the villagers buy from me on credit. Since almost all of them prefer Betagro over Sunfeed many are switching to Betagro. Also my shop is local while the big shop is 15 km far (transportation costs). And I make sure that my Betagro feed on credit is cheaper then the Sunfeed they can get on Credit in the nearest city.

My wife (13 yrears married) and I run everything together and this works very well.

Wastes,

I am planning to have a pond next to the new pens for the liquicd(washed away) waste. I heard that fish will feed on it and gtrow rather big (might be another sideline-selling fish). Do you know anything about this? The wastes we muck out with a shovel will be dried , mixed with rice huks and sold as fertilizer. I understand that you have a realy big operation. How do you handle your waste? .

Electricity,

I have to calculate the costs, if solar power is a bit more expensve but works good thats OK with me. BUt it has to have enough power! My new pens are a couple of hundered meters from the nearest house/electric cables so I would have to get an official house number etc to get main power.

Water,

Our village only got running water 2 years ago and pressure is extremely low. Cleaning and hosing out my existing 2 3x3 sheds takes over an hour because of this.

Thats why I was thinking of a power washer. Do you think that I could use the water from the village or should I use a pump as well? Are you pumping your water up from .under the ground or are you using water from a pond?

Again tabks for your help.

Revar

[revar]

Two questions for Fruity or others who know more about Betagro.

1) My betagro dealer has a new poster on the wall where the weights you have to start the different food types on are different then the ones in his folders. Acoording to him this is the 'new' food. The bags he sells are still 'old food' (the weights on the bags are the same as in the folder). Is the Betagro food changing? (normal green bags).

2) I am still confused by the 3 types of 301. According to my dealer I have to mix the first 2 ones 60%-40%. and one pig eats 20kg from the first and 10 kg from the second. after this they start eating the third 301 (301B). Should I start them on 301B when they are 15kg? and use the mix of the other 301s until 15 kg? (afetr they have eaten 5kg of 300).

Revar

[IsaanAussie]

Revar,

If you are making money growing out the runts from CP, you have my congratulations. I bought about ten small piglets that were offered cheaply to see for myself and after two months sold them all. What I found was that because there was such a large difference in the starting weights I had to separately pen them. That meant three pens for ten pigs, crazy, too much cleaning.

If they are not runts but very early weaned piglets, then you have done well to have so many survive. I wean my piglets at 28 days normally, sometimes I will give them another week if the sow still has a lot of milk and they are slow in taking to creep feed. At 28 days they are at about 7.5 kg and I like to keep them for another 2 weeks to get them established on solids. I feed them creep feed and powdered milk for the first two weeks and target 10kg weight by then. Now at 6 weeks I change to Betagro 951 then 952, 853,954 and 955. Normally the pigs get to 100kgs at 22 weeks.

Yes we do get the occasional small piglets. Just because they are small doesnt make them runts but you will tell by how fast they grow. Mostly they dont catch up. I will keep them up to 60kg but no longer. Ham pig is a nicer name than runt.

It will be interesting to see what your new batch does. How much feed and how long.

Sorry I cant help with the 300 series feed mixes as I use the pellet series from Betagro, HiGro Starter and occasionally a few pellet feed brands . Unfortunately Fruity is no longer with us, but I know he was using good quality rice bran mixed with pellet feed for his sows.

Wastes and Water. I have written a lot on my septic tanks and composting in different parts of the farming and organics forum. Have a dig around. Basically shovel out the manure, mix it in the compost box. Power wash the pen, the water going into a collection pit to trap solids and then into the septic tank. Treated water is then released into a soak away system. I dont like manure lagoons nor the taste of the fish that can live in them. The only water I pump into our pond is exit water from the septic system which has been treated for 5 to 10 days to lower the COD and BOD levels and has very little suspended solid. Basically dirty water.

I pump ground water into elevated tanks, the water is then gravity fed to things like the power washer as well as drinking water. I would suggest that you have enough tank water for one day of power outage at least. I have 4 x 1000 litre tanks based on 120 pigs drinking water and 15 litres per day per pig washing, or at full accommodation capacity enough water for 2 days.

So if your town water can be fed up to a tank then that is one way to do it. Depends on the cost per megalitre being charged and the cleanliness of the water. I am fortunate that we have a good water supply in sand at about 6 metres, so I pump from that. I have a 2" supply pipe from out water reservior but the pumps have never been turned on, the charge is supposed to be 7 baht/ML and there is no filteration from the reservior which is heavily polluted with fertiliser and runoff. Not in a big hurry to connect.

Power. If you have an existing house supply then you should be able to get another meter fitted to use for the pigsty without a new house book. I did exactly that. We get two bills. The rate for the pigsty is higher but the consumption is low. To connect you will need to run cabling and install the posts. When I looked into that a proper pole was about 1,500 baht each so you may need 4 or 5, plus the cabling and fittings. I would go talk to PEA.

[revar]

Revar,

If you are making money growing out the runts from CP, you have my congratulations. I bought about ten small piglets that were offered cheaply to see for myself and after two months sold them all. What I found was that because there was such a large difference in the starting weights I had to separately pen them. That meant three pens for ten pigs, crazy, too much cleaning.

If they are not runts but very early weaned piglets, then you have done well to have so many survive. I wean my piglets at 28 days normally, sometimes I will give them another week if the sow still has a lot of milk and they are slow in taking to creep feed. At 28 days they are at about 7.5 kg and I like to keep them for another 2 weeks to get them established on solids. I feed them creep feed and powdered milk for the first two weeks and target 10kg weight by then. Now at 6 weeks I change to Betagro 951 then 952, 853,954 and 955. Normally the pigs get to 100kgs at 22 weeks.

Yes we do get the occasional small piglets. Just because they are small doesnt make them runts but you will tell by how fast they grow. Mostly they dont catch up. I will keep them up to 60kg but no longer. Ham pig is a nicer name than runt.

It will be interesting to see what your new batch does. How much feed and how long.

Sorry I cant help with the 300 series feed mixes as I use the pellet series from Betagro, HiGro Starter and occasionally a few pellet feed brands . Unfortunately Fruity is no longer with us, but I know he was using good quality rice bran mixed with pellet feed for his sows.

Wastes and Water. I have written a lot on my septic tanks and composting in different parts of the farming and organics forum. Have a dig around. Basically shovel out the manure, mix it in the compost box. Power wash the pen, the water going into a collection pit to trap solids and then into the septic tank. Treated water is then released into a soak away system. I dont like manure lagoons nor the taste of the fish that can live in them. The only water I pump into our pond is exit water from the septic system which has been treated for 5 to 10 days to lower the COD and BOD levels and has very little suspended solid. Basically dirty water.

I pump ground water into elevated tanks, the water is then gravity fed to things like the power washer as well as drinking water. I would suggest that you have enough tank water for one day of power outage at least. I have 4 x 1000 litre tanks based on 120 pigs drinking water and 15 litres per day per pig washing, or at full accommodation capacity enough water for 2 days.

So if your town water can be fed up to a tank then that is one way to do it. Depends on the cost per megalitre being charged and the cleanliness of the water. I am fortunate that we have a good water supply in sand at about 6 metres, so I pump from that. I have a 2" supply pipe from out water reservior but the pumps have never been turned on, the charge is supposed to be 7 baht/ML and there is no filteration from the reservior which is heavily polluted with fertiliser and runoff. Not in a big hurry to connect.

Power. If you have an existing house supply then you should be able to get another meter fitted to use for the pigsty without a new house book. I did exactly that. We get two bills. The rate for the pigsty is higher but the consumption is low. To connect you will need to run cabling and install the posts. When I looked into that a proper pole was about 1,500 baht each so you may need 4 or 5, plus the cabling and fittings. I would go talk to PEA.

IsaanAussie,

In my first 19 pig batch there were two 'ham-pigs (runts). They really staid behind and were the main reason for my low average weight. In my new batch of 66 piglets, moste of the small ones are growing very well. alhought the differences in size are still big, with six pens I should be able two have the same size pigs in each one. Only two of the piglets are staying small. They might be runts The piglets get Betagro Bel-lac creep and weaner feed, bannanas. with C-tonic mixed in and some vitamins.What kind of powdered milk are you using? We also monitor them very carefully for disseases, the consistency of their doppings, if they eat etc. My wife and a friend spend hours observing them and hand feed indicvidual piglets when necessary. Its a lot of work but she loves it and it works very well. If they stay very small or realky behind others whuch were of similar size vitamin B injections sometimes work as well.

Piglets of over 7 kg are very hard to get around here. There are many small pig-holders and the farms sell the piglets when they are very small. Practice is that if a farm has piglets from 5-8 kg, they will be gone within a couple of days. People around here buy them at 4-7 kg because they can't afford the larger, more expansive ones anyway. (death rate is of course high). I hardly ever see or hear about piglets over 10 kg for sale around here.

By the way the 300 series are also bellets, its just that at one stage you are supposed to mix the pellets of two bags (which I find strange), maybe somebody else can explain.

I am going to read up about how to handle waste. It is something which I have not yet decided on. The way you are handling it looks like a good solution with 'clean feed to the pond' and a nice source of compost to be sold. (there is a lot of demand here). I definantly go dig around in your posts.

Water,

I have drilled for water at my house so, I know this works well. Ours fields and pens are however at a different location, not close to my house. I have found that the arsenic content of the drilled water is quit high, so I am not sure if I want to use it for my pig, especially for small piglets (I am not using it at the house anymore). Are you using a filtration system? I probably will start with automaticaly filling the drinking tanks with village water and connecting the power-cleaner to the village water as well. If this does not work I can get a hole drilled for my pump which I have at my house and do not use.

I just bought a 105 bar power cleaner, I did not want the more powerfull ones because with the pigs in the pens when they are cleaned there is a chance you will sometimes accidentally hit them. Or are you cleaning the pens without the pigs in it. (I have been thinking about gates between the pens so you can move them an clean an empty pen).

Power,

As I said my house is not near the pig pens. The nearest house is abou 400m away. I knew abou three options:

1) I talked to the electricity office here and they told me that officially I had to get a house book, pay for the big concrete poles, the cabling etc. total costs over 100,000 bath.

2) Agree with the house owners that I can use their electricity and get some king of meter (haven't seen electricity meters for sale at Do-home or another shop. Not sre if I should try to get them through the ectricity authorities). Getting up the wooden poles and wiring will be no problem. This is my preferred option, but it will mean that I am somewhat dependend on the (future) goodwill of the house owners.

3) Solar power. Certainly more expensive then option 2, but I would like at least to know how to do it and what I need in case (future) relations with the house owner get bad.

Since you get a separate bill there might be a third option. Getting a searate official meter and bill. The prices I was quoted by our eletricity office for the poles (Big concree ones) were a lot higher then 1500 bath. Looks like I have to go and talk to them again, maybe we misunderstood eachother ( I speak only basic Thai and my wife is absolutely not technical).

Revar

[IsaanAussie]

Revar,

I read you post again and now the latest one about the mixing of the feeds. I think what is happening here is minimise the change of feed by mixing the two together. Start with the first grade and a little bit of the second and gradually change the proportions until its 100% grade 2. Very small piglets have under developed guts and can scour easily. The milk powder is used mainly for calves that have to be bottle feed. It is about 90 baht for a 1 kg bag. I admire your wifes dedication, she is running an intensive care unit for piglets.

If you want bigger piglets come see me. As I said I dont like to sell them under 10 kg. How much is a 4 or 5 kg piglet is being sold for? By the way where abouts are you?

My power washer will run to 170bar, we use it set at about 130. The pigs are in the pens when we clean. They get used to it and if you are careful there is no problems. The biggest issue is damage to people not the pigs.

If you decide to use a septic tank inline to the pond then the maths are simple. I have six tanks, each 1,500 litres. I want 5 days hydraulic retention time and allow 15 litres waste water per pig per day. That means 20 adult pigs per tank. In your case with 6 pens, I would assume you would need 3 septic tanks of the same size. I have posted a schematic here a few months ago.

I dont filter the water for the pigs.

[revar]

IsaanAussie,

You realy got me thinking about the waste.

I have been digging around some more and understand that you mostly shovel out your pens and dump te manure in the composting bin. You said somewhere that you only have a little waste water left after this, hich is treated in your septic tanks.

Everyone around here just dumps their manure in the rice fields which I don'ty think can be very good in the long term. A few dry the manure which they muck out by hand on concrete: lots of flies.

Dry muckout and composting.

This is what I would like t do., seems a lot cleaner then concrete drying.

So a couple of questions:

What type of concrete did you use?. In my old pens I used some which is too soft making it almost impossible to shovel the manure out (uneven and holes).

Are you using bedding for your pigs all the time? I only use bedding wor the first month, after that they 'sleep on the concrete'

How big is your compost bin (I understand you have 120 pigs) and how does it work. Do you add anything? I had a look at the organic formum but a lot of it is very technical, about worms, ph, etc and I don't understand most of it. I am looking to get rid of my waste, not at producing high quality fertilizer (maybe later, for now I have to learn to walk before I can learn to run).

After muckout you wash your pens,

I like the idea of septic tanks, but since I am not a technical guy, I don't know where to start. I found your schematics but they don't mean much to me.

How much wate water do yo actually have left after dry muckout? As I have bought a pressure washer this should redce the amount of waste water. Since my pens are to be finished in a couple of weeks and the piglets are temporarily staying with friends I have to start using my pens in a few weeks (when they are ove 15KG the pen they are in now is too small.. So I am thinking of dmpoing the waste water in a new small pool and looking into the septic tanks idea beginning of next year. What do you think?

[revar]

Revar,

I read you post again and now the latest one about the mixing of the feeds. I think what is happening here is minimise the change of feed by mixing the two together. Start with the first grade and a little bit of the second and gradually change the proportions until its 100% grade 2. Very small piglets have under developed guts and can scour easily. The milk powder is used mainly for calves that have to be bottle feed. It is about 90 baht for a 1 kg bag. I admire your wifes dedication, she is running an intensive care unit for piglets.

If you want bigger piglets come see me. As I said I dont like to sell them under 10 kg. How much is a 4 or 5 kg piglet is being sold for? By the way where abouts are you?

My power washer will run to 170bar, we use it set at about 130. The pigs are in the pens when we clean. They get used to it and if you are careful there is no problems. The biggest issue is damage to people not the pigs.

If you decide to use a septic tank inline to the pond then the maths are simple. I have six tanks, each 1,500 litres. I want 5 days hydraulic retention time and allow 15 litres waste water per pig per day. That means 20 adult pigs per tank. In your case with 6 pens, I would assume you would need 3 septic tanks of the same size. I have posted a schematic here a few months ago.

I dont filter the water for the pigs.

Isaanaussie,

I am halfway between Dan Khun Tod and Si Kiu, abou 80km from Khorat.

Most piglets between 4-8 kg are sold for around 900-1300 bath around here. I also see people buying even smaller ones for 500 bath, but they often die. Not sure where they get tese, not from my friends regular supplier.

Thanks for the offer of piglets, I'd like some in the future, but for now my 66 are enough.

Revar

[IsaanAussie]

Isaanaussie,

I am halfway between Dan Khun Tod and Si Kiu, abou 80km from Khorat.

Most piglets between 4-8 kg are sold for around 900-1300 bath around here. I also see people buying even smaller ones for 500 bath, but they often die. Not sure where they get tese, not from my friends regular supplier.

Thanks for the offer of piglets, I'd like some in the future, but for now my 66 are enough.

Revar

Each to his own Revar, there is no single correct answer. But honestly it sounds to me like these piglets are the "rejects" from a commercial farm. Better to get a few baht for them and get rid of them than grow them out. There are some large farms around Korat and obviously they have developed a steady market for these piglets.

For me, the answer is simple maths. Each one of my sows costs me nearly 20,000baht per year to maintain. If she weans 18 piglets per year then each piglet owes me over 1,000 baht before anything else. Still births, mortalities increase that overhead as does a reasonable amount allowed for labour and depreciation. I am at a small scale so at a disadvantage to volume producers. So I supply piglets that are viable and not going to die. Instead of 7 to 8 kg weaned I sell piglets at 6 weeks old that are 10Kg.

Currently the industry price quoted for a weaned piglet is 1,700 baht +/- 65 baht.

As I said there is single answer. But you can be sure that the people around here don't buy piglets as small as you do, nor do they spend the effort and time that you and your wife do.

[Brabo]

Hi guys,Just to let you know my first litter is born.I am so happy with my 12 piglets. There were 13 of them, but 1 was born death :-(

[revar]

Isaanaussie,

I am halfway between Dan Khun Tod and Si Kiu, abou 80km from Khorat.

Most piglets between 4-8 kg are sold for around 900-1300 bath around here. I also see people buying even smaller ones for 500 bath, but they often die. Not sure where they get tese, not from my friends regular supplier.

Thanks for the offer of piglets, I'd like some in the future, but for now my 66 are enough.

Revar

Each to his own Revar, there is no single correct answer. But honestly it sounds to me like these piglets are the "rejects" from a commercial farm. Better to get a few baht for them and get rid of them than grow them out. There are some large farms around Korat and obviously they have developed a steady market for these piglets.

For me, the answer is simple maths. Each one of my sows costs me nearly 20,000baht per year to maintain. If she weans 18 piglets per year then each piglet owes me over 1,000 baht before anything else. Still births, mortalities increase that overhead as does a reasonable amount allowed for labour and depreciation. I am at a small scale so at a disadvantage to volume producers. So I supply piglets that are viable and not going to die. Instead of 7 to 8 kg weaned I sell piglets at 6 weeks old that are 10Kg.

Currently the industry price quoted for a weaned piglet is 1,700 baht +/- 65 baht.

As I said there is single answer. But you can be sure that the people around here don't buy piglets as small as you do, nor do they spend the effort and time that you and your wife do.

Hi IsaanAussie,

As said I am new to all of this, so I'll try different things and don't expect to make much profits yet. After I sell my 66 pigs (or maybe sell them after growing them a bit bigger)

One of the customers at my shop buys the small piglets at the same farm as I did, grows them to around 8-10 kg and resells them. Maybe I will do the same for (part) of them. Depends on how they develop. I am keeping a good administration so I know what they did cost me. I will certainly make a profit if I sell them at 10+ kg and people have asked to buy my piglets allready. But as you I don't want to sell them under 12 kg because if they die, people might blame me. Not good for the future of my feed shop as well.

After my 66 have been sold (small or big) I would like to try the fully weaned ones. I will contact you by that time to see if you have any available.

There are a lot of different things I liketo try in the next couple of years.

-Raise fully weaned ones for meat.

-Raise the small ones to 10-15 kg and resell them.

-Raise the small ones until 100 kg for the meat.

-Breed pigs myself ( only try after some years experience. )

Basically in my long rangge plans I have allocated the first 2 years to tying things out to see what I am best at, what we like most, where the demand is and what is most wise profit wise. This time will also be used to estabish more contactswith buyers, sellers, etc. and to establish myself and build good reputation with the buyers of my fully grown pigs or piglets raised to around 12 kg. If this means I have to take a small loss in those years, so be it. That will be better in the long run than getting a bad reputation. I want to have a sustainable, ethical business. I will have to make a reasonable profit in a couple of years because I will have to live from it 4 years from now, but I want to be happy with myself as well. And from your posts in this and other forums I gather that you are of the same mindframe. Which is why I appreciate and value your help very much.

Thanks,

Revar

[revar]

Hi guys,Just to let you know my first litter is born.I am so happy with my 12 piglets. There were 13 of them, but 1 was born death :-(

Congratulations,

a shame about the one born dead, but 12 live ones sound good.

Revar

[shaggy1969]

Hey folks,looks like there is some new faces to the forum. Revar and Brabo a hearty welcome to you both.Brabo may i also offer my congratulations to you also with your first litter of 12.

I do have a question/problem.Have any of you encountered problems from mosquito/insect bites? I have one sow that is being continuously bitten and i can not figure out why. Our other sows are not getting targeted and it really has me puzzled why that sow is being singled out? Any ideas folks.

Shaggy

[IsaanAussie]

Brabo,

Well I had hoped I would match you today but this time the sow has disappointed with numbers, only 8 piglets in the litter this morning. But as departed friend Fruity used to say, they are corkers.

As this is your first litter, watch them very carefully for the first week. If you are going to loose some, the first three days are when most will drop. Iron injections at day 3 to day 7, do not forget. Tails docked at the same time. I get a basket and go put all the piglet inside and take them out of the pen to do the deeds, as far from Mum as possible. If you have a set of scales weigh them then. I do not clip the teeth. Castration, if you are going to do it at all, wait until they are 2 or 3 weeks old. Yes, a bit of a fight but the piglet will benefit from being stronger and their immune system is more developed. Boars grow the fastest, barrows eat more and get fatter, gilts in the middle. Boar taint has not happened to me yet, even with a 300 kg boar, it is not a reason to castrate. But, at 4 months intact boars will cause a problem with the gilts that just gets worse. If you leave them whole, separately house them.

Anyway, enjoy the piglets, it will just get better and better. I spend time in the pen with the sow and litter every time so they get to know me. At three weeks old you will not find anything more satisfying than playing with the piglets. The key, say hi to Mum first. The key to Mum, a pig is the one farm yard animal most restricted in its ability to scratch itself.

Welcome to the wonderful world of breeding pigs. Remember if you wean these piglets in 4 weeks, get ready for her next pregnancy first. Wean and remate within 5 days.

IA

[IsaanAussie]

Revar,

You are in a perfect position to generate what you have in mind. Yes, we do think very much alike, but if 4 years is the date when there must be a profit, then start to look very closely at what others are doing not just me. RedBullHorn is a smart guy. His strategy is to grow pigs out and he has established the contacts that enable him to do that when a profit is almost gauranteed. RBH sold 200 pigs from memory when they were sold at 80 baht per KG. Now you said you got 47 baht. Now he has no pigs. There is a clear difference in strategy between the two of us which you need to look at from your own perspective. RBH has a grow finish operation and I am farrow to finish.

You live in an area that has a lot of small pig farms. I do not and the people have a mindset that pig farms must smell. My advise is to look at the positioning of your farm amid the rest. If you maintain status quo, you will lose. Go above what the neighbours are doing. With 60 or 70 pigs you will not make a difference so look at what you offer as a total package. Will the neighbours help you? No! So why should you be Father "Bloody" Christmas? Generate the profit first, get generous later at their expense not your own.

You are building your new sty now and the pigs move in soon. There is no time to stuff around. If you have the time, come to my place and have a look. It is a four hour drive from your place. If I can offer any advice, do that now!

Isaan Aussie

[IsaanAussie]

Hey folks,looks like there is some new faces to the forum. Revar and Brabo a hearty welcome to you both.Brabo may i also offer my congratulations to you also with your first litter of 12.

I do have a question/problem.Have any of you encountered problems from mosquito/insect bites? I have one sow that is being continuously bitten and i can not figure out why. Our other sows are not getting targeted and it really has me puzzled why that sow is being singled out? Any ideas folks.

Shaggy

Shagster,

Pigs are like people. I smoke and drink beer and mosquitoes don't bother me at all. So you got a choice, get some nasty habits for your sow or, get your missus to ask the local vet supplies for a bottle of insect repellent. I buy a small bottle of the very petrochem smelling stuff that you put a capful in a spray bottle full of water and problem gone. Spray the pigs every two days. Bottle costs 30 baht and lasts ages.

Longer term fix for parasites get some injectable ivomectin and dose the sows every three months, internal/external parasities, mange mites the lot. 4 ml per sow 2 weeks before farrowing and your piglets will benefit as well. The real nature of the organic regime is revealed by this 100% synthetic drug, it is recommended. <deleted>?

IA

[shaggy1969]

Hey folks,looks like there is some new faces to the forum. Revar and Brabo a hearty welcome to you both.Brabo may i also offer my congratulations to you also with your first litter of 12.

I do have a question/problem.Have any of you encountered problems from mosquito/insect bites? I have one sow that is being continuously bitten and i can not figure out why. Our other sows are not getting targeted and it really has me puzzled why that sow is being singled out? Any ideas folks.

Shaggy

Shagster,

Pigs are like people. I smoke and drink beer and mosquitoes don't bother me at all. So you got a choice, get some nasty habits for your sow or, get your missus to ask the local vet supplies for a bottle of insect repellent. I buy a small bottle of the very petrochem smelling stuff that you put a capful in a spray bottle full of water and problem gone. Spray the pigs every two days. Bottle costs 30 baht and lasts ages.

Longer term fix for parasites get some injectable ivomectin and dose the sows every three months, internal/external parasities, mange mites the lot. 4 ml per sow 2 weeks before farrowing and your piglets will benefit as well. The real nature of the organic regime is revealed by this 100% synthetic drug, it is recommended. <deleted>?

IA

Thanks wise old owl,i think that we have tried just about everything that our food supplier has in stock.No vet in our area unless you could call the old Thai guy that walks around with an old ruck sack full of beaten up syringes.the poor old girl is more purple than white now,we have even tried swapping pens with her sister but still they only choose her.Maybe a pack of krong Thip and a bottle of Lao Khao could be the answer,but i am a firm believer that you shouldnt drink and smoke whilst pregnant.Congrats with you latest litter also.Ours are not due until December.

Shaggy

[IsaanAussie]

Shaggy,

If all the witches brews have failed. Citronellia or equivalent, here try boiling up some lemon grass. Get that wife of yours to go buy some Ivomec. Most livestock meds shops sell if for cows but it works for pigs as well, 1ml per 50 kg body weight.

IA

[RedBullHorn]

not 200...130 pigs na krup~

As for mozzies, either blue mesh the whole shed like mine or plant lemon grass surrounding the shed.

Lemon grass produces the repellent chemical that are use in can spray insecticide. There are two types of lemon grass, only one type repel mosquitoes, so you need to check which is it...

[Brabo]

Thanks to all of you !

@ Isaan Aussie: Congrats to you to and thanks for the advice !!!

[revar]

The piglets are realy growing. I think I can see them getting larger every day. Although there are still two groups all of them are getting bigger. When I come with the bananas they recognize me and get crazy. This is helpfull for those who do not run to me are probable sick. One of them did not come today and sure enough, swonllen eyelids. a little amoxyl should take care of the infection. I also gave a vitamin B complex injection, which should stimulate his appatite. My two 'runts' are staying behind the rest but are putting on weight. I am being carefull to ensure they gettheir share of the vtamin enriged (c-tonic) bananas.

Prices here have dropped to 45 bath a kg so I am happy I have sold the big ones.

Revar

[jompa67]

45 bath/kg, How can it be so low. Any1 know when we can expect normal prices again? And why is it much lower in Isaan?

[Brabo]

Today in Kun Han, Sisaket: 58B/kg

[RedBullHorn]

45 bath/kg, How can it be so low. Any1 know when we can expect normal prices again? And why is it much lower in Isaan?

It's the "Usual guy" price...moreover, pig's weight range of 70-79kg is a price and 80-89kg is another price. ฿10 deduction for every 10kg down range. There's not normal price in livestocks, price flatuate volatile during year end, price will build up leading to Chinese new year next year, best to ready them prior to near February 2012.

CNY 2012 is on 23th January.

Cheers

[revar]

45 bath/kg, How can it be so low. Any1 know when we can expect normal prices again? And why is it much lower in Isaan?

It's the "Usual guy" price...moreover, pig's weight range of 70-79kg is a price and 80-89kg is another price. ฿10 deduction for every 10kg down range. There's not normal price in livestocks, price flatuate volatile during year end, price will build up leading to Chinese new year next year, best to ready them prior to near February 2012.

CNY 2012 is on 23th January.

Cheers

There are around 12 'guys' who buy pigs around here. They all use only one price per kilo. Pigs smaller then 70 kg they normally won't buy but everything else is the same price per kilo (even for 140 kg pigs. But if your pigs are too fat they won't buy from you next time or offer a lower price per kg). Some of them slaughter and sell the meat themelves on the markets or from theit car. What others do I don't know. The 45 bath per kg was cash in hand when they pick up the pigs. From some you can get 2-3 bath per kg extra if you agree to be paid later (after they have sold the meat).

In the area I live there are many small pig-farmers (10-20 pigs). Since CP dropped their price to 55 Bath a kg (at least this is what I was told) everybody is selling like crazy. They have too because their pigs are over 100 kg and they can't afford to buy the food without selling some of their pigs. You actually have to wait a week or longer before they can pick up your pigs because they are 'full and have to sell the meat first. Of course by the time they come to pick up your pigs the price has dropped even further. It realy is a buyers market and they are making the big profits now, the meat prices at the butcher shops are actualy rising.

It is a very local thing partly caused by the fact that many people started to raise pigs at the same time when they saw that people were making a profit and the prices were over 70 bath a kg. Now they are losing money some of them will stop raising pigs again.

Something similar happed when I was able o sell my coriander crop for 100 bath a kg. In a week time there were 30 people witc coriander fields and when these were ready to be harvested the price at the markets dropped to 10 bath a kg because of the huge supply.

I myself think that end december the prices should be more normal again, getting higher until Chinese new year. And the budist lent period should also be a good time to have your pigs ready. With many people becomming monks for a short period there are a lo of pigs needed for all the parties.

Revar

[revar]

Prices are now rising again. 53 bath/kg today. Thats the good news, now the bad.

There has been a lot of deseases at two CP farms and several small farms on one side of our village.

About 9 small farms have had most of their small pigs die and some of the big ones. Word is that it is PRRS.

'Special buyers' of sick pigs cam into the village offering to buy sick pigs for 40 bath a kg. Some people agreed and these 'buyers' probably spread the virus further with their car, boots etc.

Vaccine is 85 bath a pig and many poeple, including me' are now vaccinating.

Revar