British Embassy Warns Of Detention For Overstayers Exceeding 42 Days

[ableguy]

the day 5,000 family members come in here flooding with 'freakouts' about their loved ones detention is the day I'll believe it. Speeding is illegal here too, but how often do ppl get popped for that and furthermore how often does 200bht not take care of it? TiT

If you are happy to "bribe" the Police and allow them of the option to accept that bribe, then you are at fault.

I don't know what country you "used" to live in but I'm sure you would not of considered being proud to feed corruption there as it may have ended up sending you to jail for attempting to bribe an officer of the law ! Don't try to be clever.

Do you live in Thailand ? nobody likes paying the police but it is a way of life here try not paying them off and see what you get, another half a dozzen violations thrown at you which you did not commit and chances are you never commited one in the first place, get real there is no police force here, just people out to enrich themselves and it is accepted Thai society.

[TAWP]

It the same old law. I remember several years ago, a visa run bus from Phuket to Ranong was stopped and anyone with an expired visa in their passport was arrested and shipped to BKK. They were released eventually. And the arresting officers got a good tongue lashing by the brass in BKK.

I believe this is the crux of the matter. The reason the arresting officers got a tongue lashing was because there is a law tp the effect that a person in the process of rectifying the situation, by, for example, being on a bus on the way to get a visa, or being at the airport attempting leave, cannot be arrested, so I think that, unless that law has been changed, and theres been no mention of it, they cannot legally arrest people at the airport attempting to pay their fine and leave

There is no such law, that is incorrect bar-talk.

[ableguy]

the day 5,000 family members come in here flooding with 'freakouts' about their loved ones detention is the day I'll believe it. Speeding is illegal here too, but how often do ppl get popped for that and furthermore how often does 200bht not take care of it? TiT

If you are happy to "bribe" the Police and allow them of the option to accept that bribe, then you are at fault.

I don't know what country you "used" to live in but I'm sure you would not of considered being proud to feed corruption there as it may have ended up sending you to jail for attempting to bribe an officer of the law ! Don't try to be clever.

[TAWP]

How much is an air ticket, 35,000B average? Add another 20,000B for overstay, 55,000B, plus travel to BKK, plus airport fees, etc, etc, let's say minimum 60,000B. So where will you get that if you are broke? The only way might be to commit a crime, hoping you don't get caught so you can clear the visa problem......mmm, better overstay I think, in the hope luck turns in your favour. That's exactly what people do. Most people don't want to break the law, it's just circumstance.

Many do go the crime route, scam and cheat other people, and this case is typical, the guy finds himself a victim of crime, and then has to break the law himself by overstaying.

I admit there will always be an element that indeed just disergard the requirements, can't be bothered, too lazy, time could be better spent propping a bar up.  I don't have any sympathy for those people either, but there really are genuine hardship cases, don't forget that.

The week before the visa expires, there is no need to pay overstay fine nor buy an air-ticket. A couple of hundred baht will take you to the nearest border.

So your assumption that people overstay because they cannot pay the imaginary cost of 55k baht is incorrect.

That might bed the reason they continue to be on overstay after already being on it for 3 months or more...

[Mario2008]

Indeed, there is no such law. Ovestay simply means you can be arrested, even at the airport with 20,000 baht and a ticket out of the country. That has always been the case.

Note that the arrest for 1 or 2 days is not a prison sentence. It is a time during which you are arrested for further investigation (like did you work illegally) and till a decision is made to prosecute you or give you the option of paying a fine.

[Hawk]

We all need to respect the law, without law what do we have.

Thailand?

[asiawatcher]

I still refer back to the article as originated from the Pattaya source. The law has NOT changed. This is just a rehash of what has been law for a long time. On release of this 'information' I checked some of my contacts and including the Director General of Immigration, a close friend of a general I play golf with. His words were - This will not lead to jail time as propagated by the article. The words were - we would never have enough cells anyway! In saying that - it was also said should any Foreigner cause any issue the Immigration Officials 'could' extend the full force of the decree so treat the situation as apologetic, remain calm and all else should just flow.

I really don't like sensationalistic articles such as has been displayed in open forum here so think about the reason behind the article and why it was released. Believe what you will. Nothing has changed but by its nature it is now gathering momentum as Brits have checked with their embassy and the issue is gaining momentum.

Of course, stay within the law and there never will be a problem!

[wintermute]

It's pretty obvious why they are actually enforcing the law now because some expats have found it cheaper and more convenient to break the law with years of overstay than become legal. The repercussion was so small that there was no reason _not_ to do it if you didn't want to go through the hassle of a real visa.

This enforcement makes perfect sense and people whining about it are just looking for loopholes.

[wintermute]

I still refer back to the article as originated from the Pattaya source. The law has NOT changed. This is just a rehash of what has been law for a long time. On release of this 'information' I checked some of my contacts and including the Director General of Immigration, a close friend of a general I play golf with.

Well, I have tea and crackers with the cousin of the son in law of the Queen of England and she says it's real.

[Tafia]

Its their country and they can make their own rules, to stay all we have to do is comply. Its hardly rocket science and tourist visas are free!!

There have been some on here saying ...well lets wait and see the first overstayer jailed...I wonder if they will they take that chance?

Its always been the case that if caught outside of the airport by police whilst on overstay you will almost certainly be jailed.

But hey whether they jail or not the warning is clear they can!! ......so it is up to the individual whether they want to chance it or not.

[midasthailand]

Of course I didn't overstay on pupose, do you think i enjoy selling scrap, I also picked sweetcorn for 150 baht per day and went without food on a regular basis. I'd also like to point out that the only people who really helped me out were Thais.

Do you honestly believe that most people overstay on purpose. For the first time in over 20 years I overstayed my visa, for a period of 15 months.

This was because a holier than though, Gospel preaching Farang ripped me off over a million baht. As a result my company collapsed and I ending up selling scrap to feed my family.

So, you overstayed on purpose, didn't you?

You are an idiot, an unpleasant one at that, this guy was broke after being ripped off, what should he do? Over the years I have known many such cases, it's not intended, just circumstances beyond their control.

I read many people on here who have zero compasion and are at their own countrymens throats, what an unpleasant lot many of you are! We really are on our own here, can't even expect sympathy and help from our own kind and certainly zero from the indigenous lot, only "I'm alright Jack".

Before you think differently, I am fully stamped up, and up to date with everything, but know how difficult life really is. I don't know why I look on here, mostly just to get information, but all I get is angry with a lot of you horrible lot.

Sanchin,

no doubt you were a victim of circumstances beyond your control as well as a victim of crime. It would seem that you were indeed punished in accordance with the law and payed your 20,000 Baht fine. I am now waiting for all the armchair experts to flay you for working without a work permit, (picking sweet corn). I hope that you and your family are now enjoying better circumstances living in the country of your choice.

[Deeral]

To those of you who think it won't affect Thailand's international image - think again.

It is not the actual FACTS that will have an impact, it will be that it is YET ANOTHER example of Thailand;'s inability to sustain a consistent rule of law.

A lot of thailand's laws or at least the implementation of those laws seem quite draconian to outsiders and this will do nothing to allay people's concerns

it confirms people's image of Thailand as a country that is not that secure and with a legal/executive system that can't be trusted or at least relied on.most visitors to Thailand aren't interested in staying more than 2 or 3 weeks so the details, if they ever bother to check them out are irrelevant, but the stain it leaves will be hard for Thailand to remove.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Deeral

[true blue]

Do you honestly believe that most people overstay on purpose. For the first time in over 20 years I overstayed my visa, for a period of 15 months.

This was because a holier than though, Gospel preaching Farang ripped me off over a million baht. As a result my company collapsed and I ending up selling scrap to feed my family.

So, you overstayed on purpose, didn't you?

You are an idiot, an unpleasant one at that, this guy was broke after being ripped off, what should he do?  Over the years I have known many such cases, it's not intended, just circumstances beyond their control.

I read many people on here who have zero compasion and are at their own countrymens throats, what an unpleasant lot many of you are! We really are on our own here, can't even expect sympathy and help from our own kind and certainly zero from the indigenous lot, only "I'm alright Jack".

Before you think differently, I am fully stamped up, and up to date with everything, but know how difficult life really is. I don't know why I look on here, mostly just to get information, but all I get is angry with a lot of you horrible lot.

i will seconded that mate,there is some right weirdos,on here.

[Charly]

Real consequences would be blackballing the person for a 3 or 5 year (or maybe longer) period of time from returning to Thailand. Does not make sense to prevent an overstay from leaving but from returning - get rid of the deadwood. Now if you catch them way overstaying as a result of on interaction with law enforcement and this is discovered (not by immigration sweeps to pocket baht) then this is the grey area where LE and immigration have to figure out and standardized (good luck with this in Thailand) a relatively equal and fair consequences.

Bottom line for me is play by the rules = no worries.

Yes you are right, law is law, and one has to follow the laws, especially, if one is only a guest in a country.

I am not talking about the immigration laws now. Every law has a purpose, and I was wondering, why sometimes a foreigner has to leave Thailand for 24 hours, and then she or he can come back, to get a new 30 days tourist visa. I think I have an idea, but maybe the members know the correct answer for the purpose for this in my opinion unnecessary difficulty.

The reason for not blackballing/baring the persons which have overstayed longer than 42 day for 3 or 5 years might be that they do not want to abandon the option of them for returning and bringing foreign currency into Thailand.

[Rimmer]

One post consisting of a jumble of quoted replies with no actual new post removed from view. Please use the quote button correctly.

[mca]

Cheers Rimmer. Some of the stuff on this forum is harder to decipher then the Enigma code.

Edited October 2, 2010 by mca

[Deeral]

Real consequences would be blackballing the person for a 3 or 5 year (or maybe longer) period of time from returning to Thailand. Does not make sense to prevent an overstay from leaving but from returning - get rid of the deadwood. Now if you catch them way overstaying as a result of on interaction with law enforcement and this is discovered (not by immigration sweeps to pocket baht) then this is the grey area where LE and immigration have to figure out and standardized (good luck with this in Thailand) a relatively equal and fair consequences.

Bottom line for me is play by the rules = no worries.

Yes you are right, law is law, and one has to follow the laws, especially, if one is only a guest in a country.

I am not talking about the immigration laws now. Every law has a purpose, and I was wondering, why sometimes a foreigner has to leave Thailand for 24 hours, and then she or he can come back, to get a new 30 days tourist visa. I think I have an idea, but maybe the members know the correct answer for the purpose for this in my opinion unnecessary difficulty.

The reason for not blackballing/baring the persons which have overstayed longer than 42 day for 3 or 5 years might be that they do not want to abandon the option of them for returning and bringing foreign currency into Thailand.

"Every law has a purpose" - the naivety of some people!

[ryladie99]

People that choose to overstay their visa's should face the consequences of their actions, and flagrant disregard of another countrys law. So an overstay of 42 days, which is more than most people's trips might lead to detention, deportation, black-listing does not sound unreasonable.

Good point In America we have 13 millions undocumented and the Americans encounter many problems as such health care, taxes, unemployment, immigration, crime as well as economy.. part of problem comes from the impact of overstaying....my state, California is suffering from Emergency care from Over abused by uninsured as well as illegal overstayed quests of 6 million ( 25 billion the State of California paid for emergency Health care and no one wanted to talk about ) ...by the way, two years ago one town in Mexico received 250 millions earning income without taxes. ( statistic from Western Union ) Think about the Rest of money that never pays into the system...Now I can understand Why people in Arizona are furious about the impact of Overstay?? However, the impact of two Wars contribute to the Economy problem as well as Overstay quests from around the world....

Opp Farangs in Thailand are seldom abused the Free heath care because, they pay for their own...Plus Farangs Pay fine every time they extend their Visas...( America, she never receives any money except she gives, gives and gives without any return...Humanitarian sense and the profits belong to Repug businessmen who hire farm workers and avoid paying taxes as much as they can ) I am standing tall about the truth and my personal opinion...

[onlooker]

So far it is all spurious talk!  I spent the week working everyday with immigration airside at the airport, Suan Plu and Chaeng Wattana.   They all laughed at the Thai Visa thread and the Pattaya One and the impending crackdown!   It was business as usual for them.  If you have 20k and a valid passport and a valid entry stamp you go free.  Don't matter if you stayed 5 years?

Can PattayaOne or Thaivisa please send a representative to Immigration to explain to them how they should be enforcing the law . . . and to ask them politely not to laugh at the story as it is being taken seriously by some halfwitted expats.

[rubl]

"Every law has a purpose" - the naivety of some people!

Probably more correct to say 'every law HAD a purpose'. Most laws still have and some should be in the pipeline for retraction

[Deeral]

People that choose to overstay their visa's should face the consequences of their actions, and flagrant disregard of another countrys law. So an overstay of 42 days, which is more than most people's trips might lead to detention, deportation, black-listing does not sound unreasonable.

Good point In America we have 13 millions undocumented and the Americans encounter many problems as such health care, taxes, unemployment, immigration, crime as well as economy.. part of problem comes from the impact of overstaying....my state, California is suffering from Emergency care from Over abused by uninsured as well as illegal overstayed quests of 6 million ( 25 billion the State of California paid for emergency Health care and no one wanted to talk about ) ...by the way, two years ago one town in Mexico received 250 millions earning income without taxes. ( statistic from Western Union ) Think about the Rest of money that never pays into the system...Now I can understand Why people in Arizona are furious about the impact of Overstay?? However, the impact of two Wars contribute to the Economy problem as well as Overstay quests from around the world....

Opp Farangs in Thailand are seldom abused the Free heath care because, they pay for their own...Plus Farangs Pay fine every time they extend their Visas...( America, she never receives any money except she gives, gives and gives without any return...Humanitarian sense and the profits belong to Repug businessmen who hire farm workers and avoid paying taxes as much as they can ) I am standing tall about the truth and my personal opinion...

If only life was as simple as this poster!

a fully paid up guest of the mad-hatters "tea party"?

Edited October 2, 2010 by Deeral

[maxtingtong]

Ok, so who does the laws on immigration in thailand? Pattaya One, the British Embassy or the Thai Government? Till when there isn't an official change on the immigration law about overstay we should consider valid the old one right?

:jap:

[Deeral]

Ok, so who does the laws on immigration in thailand? Pattaya One, the British Embassy or the Thai Government? Till when there isn't an official change on the immigration law about overstay we should consider valid the old one right?

:jap:

Oh daer!

There hasn't been a change in the law!THere is claimed to be a change in the IMPLEMENTATION of the law.That is what a large part of this thread was about!

[bkk_mike]

I don't think anyone is going to complain too much about them doing this.

After all, 42 days isn't something you overstay by accident usually, but you'd have to hope that immigration would give, as a minimum, the following exemptions.

1. Medical. If you've ended up in hospital (traffic accident, or come down ill during your holiday), that so long as you were hospitalised while your visa was current, that you wouldn't be jailed for overstaying. (I know that people who ended up in hospital are supposed to be exempt from the overstay charges, but we've all heard of people that ended up having to pay for the overstay in spite of that.)

2. Act of God. The obvious example of this is the Icelandic volcano at the start of the year. The cancellation of flights meant that if your own flight was cancelled you ended up trying to rebook onto a later flight (that may already have been full). If it had happened in peak season, people could easily have been stuck for more than 42 days.

3. Act of terrorism. The cancellation of flights after 9/11 is an example here. Like with the volcano, the period that the cancellation covers gets extended by the issues of trying to rebook flights, etc.

4. Act outside of the control of the passenger. This one would include the yellow shirts closing of the airport, air-traffic controller strikes, airlines going bust, etc. I also vaguely remember the case of a foreigner who was kidnapped and locked in a shack in the jungle. All of these are cases where the person had no control over the issue and shouldn't be jailed for the overstay.

5. Mistake by immigration. I have a visa, so get stamped for 90 days on arrival. However, I don't see it as beyond the realms of the possible that the immigration officer makes a mistake and stamps me in for 30 days. If this happens to someone with a valid visa, and they end up leaving before the 90 days they thought they had but more than 42 days after the 30 day stamp they actually received, it shouldn't be a jailable offence. (How many people actually check the stamp in their passport in this situation...)

So long as people affected by these cases aren't jailed, who has a justifiable defence for not jailing anyone else that overstays so blatantly.

[Pi Sek]

I don't think anyone is going to complain too much about them doing this.

After all, 42 days isn't something you overstay by accident usually, but you'd have to hope that immigration would give, as a minimum, the following exemptions.

1. Medical. If you've ended up in hospital (traffic accident, or come down ill during your holiday), that so long as you were hospitalised while your visa was current, that you wouldn't be jailed for overstaying. (I know that people who ended up in hospital are supposed to be exempt from the overstay charges, but we've all heard of people that ended up having to pay for the overstay in spite of that.)

2. Act of God. The obvious example of this is the Icelandic volcano at the start of the year. The cancellation of flights meant that if your own flight was cancelled you ended up trying to rebook onto a later flight (that may already have been full). If it had happened in peak season, people could easily have been stuck for more than 42 days.

3. Act of terrorism. The cancellation of flights after 9/11 is an example here. Like with the volcano, the period that the cancellation covers gets extended by the issues of trying to rebook flights, etc.

4. Act outside of the control of the passenger. This one would include the yellow shirts closing of the airport, air-traffic controller strikes, airlines going bust, etc. I also vaguely remember the case of a foreigner who was kidnapped and locked in a shack in the jungle. All of these are cases where the person had no control over the issue and shouldn't be jailed for the overstay.

5. Mistake by immigration. I have a visa, so get stamped for 90 days on arrival. However, I don't see it as beyond the realms of the possible that the immigration officer makes a mistake and stamps me in for 30 days. If this happens to someone with a valid visa, and they end up leaving before the 90 days they thought they had but more than 42 days after the 30 day stamp they actually received, it shouldn't be a jailable offence. (How many people actually check the stamp in their passport in this situation...)

So long as people affected by these cases aren't jailed, who has a justifiable defence for not jailing anyone else that overstays so blatantly.

I have only overstayed for one day in 8 years, because the Sadao border point closed early (which they denied when I showed up in the morning, demanding an explanation!). But they still charged me a day's overstay. However:

Point 1: I have seen on numerous occasions that complete pillock Nok at Samui Immigration shout "yep mem, you go border, you pay overstay" when confronted with people with signed & stamped doctor's notes saying they were unable to travel for whatever reason, before mumbling "farang ben cuay" under his breath. "Hospital not immigration - I immigration!" Makes you wonder why he decided to work in immigration.

Point 2: if enough people are affected, then the govt will waive the overstays. But, if it's up to the local official (e.g. plane couldn't fly due to weather), I wouldn't be surprised if the local boys made it as difficult as possible to allow room for palm-greasing.

Point 3: terrorism is probably enough to warrant govt action, but otherwise see 2.

Point 4: I think it's likely that point 2 applies here too.

Point 5: I do check each time I get stamped, as I know of cases where the immigration mistake has led to the maximum overstay fee.

[rafval]

It the same old law. I remember several years ago, a visa run bus from Phuket to Ranong was stopped and anyone with an expired visa in their passport was arrested and shipped to BKK. They were released eventually. And the arresting officers got a good tongue lashing by the brass in BKK.

I believe this is the crux of the matter. The reason the arresting officers got a tongue lashing was because there is a law tp the effect that a person in the process of rectifying the situation, by, for example, being on a bus on the way to get a visa, or being at the airport attempting leave, cannot be arrested, so I think that, unless that law has been changed, and theres been no mention of it, they cannot legally arrest people at the airport attempting to pay their fine and leave

There is no such law, that is incorrect bar-talk.

never discussed visa laws in bars but that was my recollection of it, so why were the police stopped from imprisoning people on visa runs?

Edited October 2, 2010 by rafval

[Deeral]

I don't think anyone is going to complain too much about them doing this.

After all, 42 days isn't something you overstay by accident usually, but you'd have to hope that immigration would give, as a minimum, the following exemptions.

1. Medical. If you've ended up in hospital (traffic accident, or come down ill during your holiday), that so long as you were hospitalised while your visa was current, that you wouldn't be jailed for overstaying. (I know that people who ended up in hospital are supposed to be exempt from the overstay charges, but we've all heard of people that ended up having to pay for the overstay in spite of that.)

2. Act of God. The obvious example of this is the Icelandic volcano at the start of the year. The cancellation of flights meant that if your own flight was cancelled you ended up trying to rebook onto a later flight (that may already have been full). If it had happened in peak season, people could easily have been stuck for more than 42 days.

3. Act of terrorism. The cancellation of flights after 9/11 is an example here. Like with the volcano, the period that the cancellation covers gets extended by the issues of trying to rebook flights, etc.

4. Act outside of the control of the passenger. This one would include the yellow shirts closing of the airport, air-traffic controller strikes, airlines going bust, etc. I also vaguely remember the case of a foreigner who was kidnapped and locked in a shack in the jungle. All of these are cases where the person had no control over the issue and shouldn't be jailed for the overstay.

5. Mistake by immigration. I have a visa, so get stamped for 90 days on arrival. However, I don't see it as beyond the realms of the possible that the immigration officer makes a mistake and stamps me in for 30 days. If this happens to someone with a valid visa, and they end up leaving before the 90 days they thought they had but more than 42 days after the 30 day stamp they actually received, it shouldn't be a jailable offence. (How many people actually check the stamp in their passport in this situation...)

So long as people affected by these cases aren't jailed, who has a justifiable defence for not jailing anyone else that overstays so blatantly.

I have only overstayed for one day in 8 years, because the Sadao border point closed early (which they denied when I showed up in the morning, demanding an explanation!). But they still charged me a day's overstay. However:

Point 1: I have seen on numerous occasions that complete pillock Nok at Samui Immigration shout "yep mem, you go border, you pay overstay" when confronted with people with signed & stamped doctor's notes saying they were unable to travel for whatever reason, before mumbling "farang ben cuay" under his breath. "Hospital not immigration - I immigration!" Makes you wonder why he decided to work in immigration.

Point 2: if enough people are affected, then the govt will waive the overstays. But, if it's up to the local official (e.g. plane couldn't fly due to weather), I wouldn't be surprised if the local boys made it as difficult as possible to allow room for palm-greasing.

Point 3: terrorism is probably enough to warrant govt action, but otherwise see 2.

Point 4: I think it's likely that point 2 applies here too.

Point 5: I do check each time I get stamped, as I know of cases where the immigration mistake has led to the maximum overstay fee.

Most of this is "wishful thinking"

whilst you may not end up in jail - at least for more than a couple of nights, immigration seems to be under no obligation to accommodate you and have at times been totally "jobsworth" about it.

1 - unless you get the forms right etc hospital is no excuse.2, 3 and 4 - When situations like this or the blockade of the airport - a GOVT Minister has had to step in to say that overstayers won't be penalised; he he didn't they would still get fined at least. You may well find the only way out is through your own embassy.5 - well - I've witnessed two examples of this at close range and the lengths that immigration will go to to say that it wasn't their fault are astounding - of course it would mean one of their officials losing face.....and they DO make mistakes - some are obvious but others don't materialise until you go to immigration for one reason or another....then the fun begins - you'll most certainly end up paying out, even being held for a while.

[kevinc]

.........If you manage to get passed Zone 2 ( x 40 ) to the airport then find that you have overstayed?,

You pay the b20,000 fine to get through immigration, Just make sure that you don't cross the boundary lines in duty free at Kingpower with a lipstick. because then you may never see daylight!!

[bdenner]

FOR CRYING OUT ALOUD!!! When will you people get off the overstay rhetoric and get back onto the creditability of the OP. We are discussing the validity of an erroneous rumour not the ‘weather beaten’ overstay problem.

[Alboy666]

Excluding hospital treatment or a family emergency there is really no excuse for overstaying more than a day or two. I would suggest that a fair proportion of those who overstay are the sort of expat that the kingdom wants rid of and most decent expats want rid of.

I'm not sure about banging people up for this but I'm all for blacklisting those without a valid excuse and making them pay their own way home. US and Australia to name but a few wouldn't stand for this crap, so why should Thailand. Play the game straight and you don't get into bother