Visa Overstay Issues Causes Confusion

[webfact]

Visa overstay issues causes confusion

UK Foreign Office confirm tougher policy

The Chong Mek border crossing from Thailand

into Laos outside Ubon Ratchathani. File photo.

The cover story in the first edition of Pattaya One (published 1 October this year), which noted a tougher line being taken by Immigration officials with foreigners who had overstayed their visas by 42 days or more, created quite a stir, and not a little confusion.

A simple reading of the travel advisory posted on the website of the British Foreign Office confirms our version. British embassy officials, as all major foreign missions do, have close connections within Thai government circles and at some point have amended their travel advisory based on advice received from senior Thai sources.

The British Foreign Office travel advisory reads as follows:

If you stay in Thailand for longer than the time authorised on your arrival, and you do not have an extension of stay or a valid visa, then this is an offence under Thai Immigration law. You will be fined 500 baht per day for every day you over- stay, excluding the first day, up to a maximum of 20,000 baht. Any foreigner found by the authorities to have overstayed their visa is also at risk of being held in detention, fined and deported at their own expense. The Thai authorities have stated they will always en- force detention of overstays for more than 42 days.

As with many stories of this nature, the information Pattaya One presented was quickly taken out of context and turned into something other than the sum of its parts. While the sub-heading read ‘jail time for foreigners’, there appears to have been an assumption the ‘jail time’ meant people with overstays of 42 days or more were going to find themselves before a court where they would then be sentenced to a long stay (months or even a couple of years) behind bars in a correctional facility. This is incorrect. The only overstaying foreigners who can spend up to the maximum of two years inside the Immigration Detention Centre (IDC) in Bangkok are those who simply don’t have the money to pay the fine and purchase an air ticket in order to leave. They are arrested, spend a night or two behind bars, face court, are fined and then sent to the IDC.

In most cases where an overstayer has the 20,000 baht fine and money to purchase an air ticket they can be held for as little as two days banged up behind a securely locked door. In Pattaya, if one has sufficient funds it is possible to avoid the IDC and instead merely spend a couple of nights in a cell, pay the fine imposed by the court and then arrange to be taken directly to the airport and leave the country. The jails of Thailand are already filled to the gunwales and the last thing they need is a steady stream of more foreigners, who have the cash to get out, clogging up the facilities.

With a change at the top of the Immigration ladder, the new broom had allegedly decided to really start sweeping a murky floor, and issued instructions to start detaining people. This simply meant there was a greater chance of long-term overstayers (that is, 42 days or more) being detained and held in jail cells until formalities were sorted to the satisfaction of the authorities.

Pattaya One is aware of two British nationals who overstayed beyond the 42 days limit and were subsequently detained. Both of these cases occurred in the past six weeks or so. One of these men managed to get away with just two days in holding cells before being able to leave the country. While two days might not sound a very long time, we at Pattaya One doubt there are many readers who fancy spending 48-hours or more languishing in a typically overcrowded, hot and humid Thai prison cell where room service tends to leave a lot to be desired.

Anyone who bothered to read the story closely would have realised we were at pains to make it clear that Immigration officials are not mindless automatons and in extenuating circumstances it is possible for people to avoid spending any time at all behind bars. What the authorities are particularly aiming at are those people who have intentionally overstayed their visas and believe they can simply waltz through the formalities of paying a fine without consequence.

Equally, at no point did Pattaya One ever claim there had been a change in the law or the penalties had become harsher. The law remains as originally enshrined in legislation. Section 81 of the 1979 Immigration Act states quite clearly that any foreigner who stays in Thailand, ‘without permission or with permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.’

One completely erroneous piece posted by another Pattaya publication claimed an unnamed senior Immigration officer said foreigners could overstay for up to one year without risk of arrest. Perhaps the Immigration officer is blissfully unaware of his own laws.

Other publications around the country sought advice from local Immigration officials, who stated there had been no change in enforcement of the relevant laws. Even the Australian mission in Thailand has indicated it does not intend to upgrade its travel advice, stating foreigners on overstay are still being allowed to leave Suvarnabhumi airport after paying fines. They did not indicate whether the overstayers had exceeded the 42-day limit.

It is hardly likely that senior officers in the Thai Immigration Department are going to allow the English language media to be privy to their internal workings. Equally, it may well be that in some jurisdictions the overstay law is not being enforced to its full extent as requested by the head office in Bangkok. Once again, this may well be because the situation precludes the need for detention, or simply because this is Thailand and the left hand is willing to get down and dirty while the right hand plays with itself.

Of the huge number of tourists who come to Thailand and the large community of expats who live here, a very small percentage overstay a valid visa for any extended length of time. The majority of tourists and expats adhere to their visa regulations and never have to worry about being arrested and detained for breaking Thai law.

-- Pattaya One 2010-10-13

[mojo80]

Sounds like alot of back tracking on P1 part. also the fact they have started to criticize there reader base, i will certainly be avoiding there news at all cost not that i have even bothered to read anything bar what was said in tv about the overstay! I left bangkok last week with 6 months overstay and nothing was even said or done, when asking the officials they hadnt arrested anyone or new of a tighter policy change!

[bangkockney]

Foreign Office travel advice updated, reflecting the quote in the article, on or before 6 October 2010.

[IAMSOBAD]

Why does TV keep assisting in this cover up by Pattaya One?

The people at PO have not answered any of the posts by TV readers in the past 3 or 4 threads on this Headlline Scam!

In fact TV has refused to link all these threads.

Give us Truth or some respect please!!!!!!!!!!

Link the threads and Ask what came first the headline???

Or the Fake warning after the headline???

Mods please WE rely on TV for Real News not selling ads for go go bars like PO does!

Edited October 13, 2010 by IAMSOBAD

[johnefallis]

Sounds like alot of back tracking on P1 part. also the fact they have started to criticize there reader base, i will certainly be avoiding there news at all cost not that i have even bothered to read anything bar what was said in tv about the overstay! I left bangkok last week with 6 months overstay and nothing was even said or done, when asking the officials they hadnt arrested anyone or new of a tighter policy change!

Really? Could you please post a copy of your airline ticket and overstay receipt? A redacted copy if necessary.

Thanks.

[Griffin09]

Hopefully I am not taking the title of this article out of context:

[Visa overstay issues causes confusion]

What is so confusing about this law? Step-by-step:

Arrive and receive a stamp with a date on it.

That date arrives.

Pack up and leave.

No issues....

Edited October 13, 2010 by Griffin09

[IAMSOBAD]

UK Foreign Office please tell us who at immigration in Thailand gave YOU this warning?

Or did you get it from Howard Miller?

He IS the Honorary Consul in Pattaya for the UK and IS the Pattaya One boss!

Just name one name with rank and office of this immigration official issuing this Headline worthy news story?????????

[z9999]

Maybe it's time to require passing a reading comprehension test as a visa requirement? The law is quite simple, obey it or accept the consequences.

[KoratFarang]

I dont undestand. We are in another country, if we want to stay here we have to respect the law here.

I had overstay 1 time because i was sick and only 5 days, the immigration extendet my visa, after i showed them paper from the doctor, and i did not even pay any thing.

It os fine with me to put farang in hotel hilton for 2 years, this way they can learn this country have laws too, even many goverment people not follow the law that does not give us the right to break the law.

[Para]

I find it sad that TV has chosen P1 as its partner.

As already stated here and on other boards HM seems to flit around answering what he deems necessary while constantly ignoring repeat VALID questions posted by board members.

I have enjoyed reading many of the forums that TV offers and have done so for many years but if forced to read thread after thread relating to the poor quality of P1's posts/news then I will soon become bored.

[asiawatcher]

Sounds like alot of back tracking on P1 part. also the fact they have started to criticize there reader base, i will certainly be avoiding there news at all cost not that i have even bothered to read anything bar what was said in tv about the overstay! I left bangkok last week with 6 months overstay and nothing was even said or done, when asking the officials they hadnt arrested anyone or new of a tighter policy change!

They keep opening their mouths to change feet. The more they say the deeper the ....

[mojo80]

mobile vulgus- Mob Rule, should be instated!

[grahamhc]

OK, Lets look at this in reality. When doing his Hon Consul training, Howard found this obscure but legitimate law, and thought "Oh what a good one to launch my PO/TV newspaper". And why not, in his Journalist hat, he is here to sell newspapers. And what better that a "Shock Jock" headline, that is reality affects so few people that it in not a blip on Immigrations normal daily routine. So why sweat it.

Don't you all remember the First Issue headline from "Pattaya Times" which was then proved untrue. And so important at the time, but now not remembered by any of us. It was another "Immigration Blockbuster" - That is all I remember. But it was another The Sky is Falling "Shock Jock" headline that faded away.

Now, Howard, if you wish to SELL newspapers, tell us where to BUY it, as I cannot find an issue in any shop that I try.

PS: I like Howard and he tries to do a good job, but people love to gang up on him, no matter what he does. Stick with it, Howard! :jap:

[Jirapa]

Hopefully I am not taking the title of this article out of context:

[Visa overstay issues causes confusion]

What is so confusing about this law? Step-by-step:

Arrive and receive a stamp with a date on it.

That date arrives.

Pack up and leave.

No issues....

Or get a visa extension at immigration. You pay you play!

[gmac]

Maybe it's time to require passing a reading comprehension test as a visa requirement? The law is quite simple, obey it or accept the consequences.

Spot on. It's all a bit of a non-story really. Why should the populace at large have to spend it's time reading articles explaining how much trouble wrongdoers will be in depending on their level of indiscretion? Surely it's a matter for the individual who decides to, or discover he has broken the law to research his own way out of the mess!

[billyevo]

"I left bangkok last week with 6 months overstay and nothing was even said or done, when asking the officials they hadnt arrested anyone or new of a tighter policy change"

Why do you consider its your right to boast about your disrespect for Thailands Visa Policy and overstay 6 months. You set a wonderful example for all of us to follow. I welcome your reply.

[Brewsta]

Sounds like alot of back tracking on P1 part. also the fact they have started to criticize there reader base, i will certainly be avoiding there news at all cost not that i have even bothered to read anything bar what was said in tv about the overstay! I left bangkok last week with 6 months overstay and nothing was even said or done, when asking the officials they hadnt arrested anyone or new of a tighter policy change!

Really? Could you please post a copy of your airline ticket and overstay receipt? A redacted copy if necessary.

Thanks.

Greetings johnefallis,

I will look forward to reading your 'take' on TV in the near future of the posters speedily submitted evidence that, in my humble opinion, constitutes a very usual(UN) and, thus quite bizarre claim of total clemency by BKK Immigration.

Should said air-ticket and re-dacted visa stamp be unavailable, I will of course understand.

rgdz from

Brewsta

Edited October 13, 2010 by Brewsta

[thomo]

We are in another country, if we want to stay here we have to respect the law here.

No we don't. One can choose what to respect and not. Has the Thai judicial system earned your respect KF?

Edited October 13, 2010 by thomo

[thomo]

Why do you consider its your right to boast about your disrespect for Thailands Visa Policy and overstay 6 months.

Because it is his right.

[thomo]

Remember that old homeless lady from Sweden I think, living homeless in Phuket for years, and passed away last year.

She went to immigration, and they just held on to her passport for her and let her back out to live.

[NanLaew]

What a load of **** i know a english lad who overstayed 3 years and who left thailand last week.He went to immigration paid his 20 thousand baht and then went to the airport and left,he was not detained and arrived back in thailand yesterday.And thai visa is sending this crap to my email.

Editors note my ass.

What possible excuse could this 'english lad' have for overstaying 3 years? Is he planning another 3-year stay?

I thought the other bugger blithely touting his 6-month "up-yours" to That Immigration was bad enough.

Edited October 13, 2010 by NanLaew

[Tigs]

Well, if it was done for publicity or whatever it was a pretty poor show. Blaming the readers for not reading the story 'closely enough' has to be a first in journalism (I use the term journalism with great reservation), and is frankly remarkable. Clearly the story was not written well enough to communicate the message correctly at the intended readership. Perhaps a font resembling large handwriting in crayon would be more appropriate for the pages of this news rag, that way it would reach it's intended readership.

I also find that there must be a huge conflict of interest here in the role of HC and then owning a newspaper which comments on political issues in Thailand and other things such as local arrests and imprisonments of Brits perhaps, where the HC is privy to a lot of inside information other news sources are not, and has access to those behind bars. It just doesn't seem right.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Tigs

[thaikahuna]

Why does TV keep assisting in this cover up by Pattaya One?

The people at PO have not answered any of the posts by TV readers in the past 3 or 4 threads on this Headlline Scam!

In fact TV has refused to link all these threads.

Give us Truth or some respect please!!!!!!!!!!

Link the threads and Ask what came first the headline???

Or the Fake warning after the headline???

Mods please WE rely on TV for Real News not selling ads for go go bars like PO does!

Makes me wonder too given that Pattaya One IS the British Consular Representative of the Home Office in Pattaya.....

Do I see a conflict of Interest?????? I CERTIANLY DO!!

[mojo80]

"I left bangkok last week with 6 months overstay and nothing was even said or done, when asking the officials they hadnt arrested anyone or new of a tighter policy change"

Why do you consider its your right to boast about your disrespect for Thailands Visa Policy and overstay 6 months. You set a wonderful example for all of us to follow. I welcome your reply.

If and when immigration really do start tightening the rules, then and only then will i consider following them to a T.

I would like to say ill respect thai law when thai's start respecting it, however that would open up a whole new can of worms!

I consider 20,000 a fair price to pay for the hassle of not having to fly once every 1,3 months to sort my visa out! and well if people dont like that, ,!,,

[easybullet3]

am I missing something on this one?

overstayers are fined (500 baht a day) to a max of 20,000 baht.

if the overstay is more than 42 days, then you risk possible detention or jail and deportation.

is that it?

i cant see what all the big story is about.. why is everyone going on and on about this one?

[theoldgit]

Sounds like alot of back tracking on P1 part. also the fact they have started to criticize there reader base, i will certainly be avoiding there news at all cost not that i have even bothered to read anything bar what was said in tv about the overstay! I left bangkok last week with 6 months overstay and nothing was even said or done, when asking the officials they hadnt arrested anyone or new of a tighter policy change!

Really? Could you please post a copy of your airline ticket and overstay receipt? A redacted copy if necessary.

Thanks.

If "nothing was even said or done" then surely he wouldn't have an "overstay receipt", or am I missing something?

[dekbahnnok]

Sounds like alot of back tracking on P1 part. also the fact they have started to criticize there reader base, i will certainly be avoiding there news at all cost not that i have even bothered to read anything bar what was said in tv about the overstay! I left bangkok last week with 6 months overstay and nothing was even said or done, when asking the officials they hadnt arrested anyone or new of a tighter policy change!

Really? Could you please post a copy of your airline ticket and overstay receipt? A redacted copy if necessary.

Thanks.

Greetings johnefallis,

I will look forward to reading your 'take' on TV in the near future of the posters speedily submitted evidence that, in my humble opinion, constitutes a very usual(UN) and, thus quite bizarre claim of total clemency by BKK Immigration.

Should said air-ticket and re-dacted visa stamp be unavailable, I will of course understand.

rgdz from

Brewsta

overstaying is a bad habit...you can be blacklisted by Immigration....and it does happen

[mojo80]

Sounds like alot of back tracking on P1 part. also the fact they have started to criticize there reader base, i will certainly be avoiding there news at all cost not that i have even bothered to read anything bar what was said in tv about the overstay! I left bangkok last week with 6 months overstay and nothing was even said or done, when asking the officials they hadnt arrested anyone or new of a tighter policy change!

Really? Could you please post a copy of your airline ticket and overstay receipt? A redacted copy if necessary.

Thanks.

If "nothing was even said or done" then surely he wouldn't have an "overstay receipt", or am I missing something?

I paid My fine of 20,000 and was issued with receipt. maybe i wasnt clear, nothing was said or done with respect to being put in detention or that any laws regarding overstay had been tightened.

[dekbahnnok]

be the first to find out the hard way so you can be featured on the cover of PO being visited by the H.C.....then you will have bragging rights...the longest overstayer I have met was 5 years.....now there is value for 20,000 baht

[Maestro]

What a load of **** i know a english lad who overstayed 3 years and who left thailand last week.He went to immigration paid his 20 thousand baht and then went to the airport and left,he was not detained and arrived back in thailand yesterday...

He did the right thing by clearing his overstay at the local immigration office before going to the airport. It is the advice generally given on ThaiVisa for such situation. The articles in Pattaya One, I understand, are about overstayers who go directly to the airport or a land border.

The general rule, of course, is to take care not to overstay. The law, which has not changed, is clear and allows court sentences for imprisonment, so this risk is always there even if apparently no judge has handed down a prison sentence yet. The immigration department has the authority to arrest, detain, and send to court, and they can change their policies at a whim without the need for a change in the law. The court, not immigration, has the authority to hand down a prison sentence. This legal difference between detention and imprisonment probably makes little or no difference to the foreigner who gets locked up, although detention is reportedly somewhat less uncomfortable than imprisonment.

Talking about "authority" I should also mention that the foreigner who goes to the airport with an overstay and is offered by the immigration officer to be allowed to leave upon payment of the summary overstay fine of 500 Baht per day, maximum 20,000 Baht, has the right to refuse this offer and instead be arrested, detained, and have a court decide on the extent of his punishment. This option is usually exercised by foreigners who do not have the money to pay the fine. In this case, the judge is free to decide on the amount of the fine and the length of imprisonment or both within the limits set by section 81 of the Immgration Act, for example a fine of only 5,000 and no prison term for a long overstay; he is not bound by immigration's enforcement rule of 500 Baht per day for the fine, only by the maximum of 20,000 Baht. Of course, if the foreigner cannot pay even this lower fine he will be sent back to detention, ie be locked up despite the fact that he was not sentenced to prison.