Andrew Drummond'S Website

[Moonrakers]

While the heavily tattooed specialist in

I could have just left it right there actually. The man has tattoos.

I suggest we go back on topic and leave the personal feelings about the writing style of Mr. Drummond aside.

LaoPo

What would be the point of that.

I am pointing out clear examples of how his writing style is sensationalist. Or can we only say good things about him? People refute that he is sensationalist and ask for examples yet when I do, I am told that I shouldn't!

Edited November 16, 2010 by Moonrakers

[Moonrakers]

I'm leaving this thread now anyway.

I've said my piece, you can all go back to listening to the gospel of Drummond.

[andrewdrummond]

To Moonrakers: Oh well before I go to bed here are your answers.

Moonrakers:Heavily tattooed? So bloody what.

AD Answer: No particular reasons except he was very heavily tattooed and descriptions are part of writing

Moonrakers: What about the one's (patient cases) that were successful. Why concentrate on the nagative

AD Answer: More to the point where did he get the 90 per cent success rate claim from? He has already removed the phoney Lord burnett testimonial from his site. Staff assured me the remaining testimonial(s) are made up from different parts of the same latter. I have letters purpoting to come from ex-clients which I may put up on site.

Moonrakers: What is wrong with the website?

AD Answer: What is right with it. Not to put too fine a point on it when I wrote the story (the website changes daily it seems) it contained a lot of falsehoods. The phoney Lord Burnett, pictures taken from other sites, a doctor in a stethoscope talking to a blonde, a Doctor in Canada who has been to the clinic but once, available for personal consultations. Its difficult to keep up with the 'Meet the Team' section, but half of them work out of an office behind Carrefour in Pattaya.

Moonrakers: How many equates to a mass exodos

AD Answer: 11, five recently. Something like a 100% turnover. I spoke to many of the staff. In the light of the admission of the owner to the 'ice' taking, it was not necessary to use their evidence, but I have affirmations from them that if this case made the courts they would give evidence.

Moonrakers: I could go on. It is sensationalistic tat that it written to line he pockets of Andrew Drummond

Answer: I could go on too. This place is for people to go to get cured. They pay through the nose for it. I am told one mother took out a bank loan to help her son. It is not only the super rich who can easily afford US$20-35,000 a month who go there - its the last Apologies for my earlier reply which seems to have been jinxed. I do not know Moonrakers? What story should I be telling

PS My apologies for my original answer to M. Seems to have been jinxed with printing instructions

Edited November 16, 2010 by andrewdrummond

[LaoPo]

While the heavily tattooed specialist in

I could have just left it right there actually. The man has tattoos.

I suggest we go back on topic and leave the personal feelings about the writing style of Mr. Drummond aside.

LaoPo

What would be the point of that.

I am pointing out clear examples of how his writing style is sensationalist. Or can we only say good things about him? People refute that he is sensationalist and ask for examples yet when I do, I am told that I shouldn't!

Nobody told you that you shouldn't ventilate your own opinion; that's why this is an open forum.

But the point of this topic is that the OP asked if someone knew WHY the website of Mr. Drummond was closed.

That YOU find someone's writing style sensationalistic is your own opinion but that's not an answer about the OP's question.

It's a free world and you've shown your opinion and posted about so already a few times.

Fine

Next.

LaoPo

Edited November 16, 2010 by LaoPo

[GuestHouse]

Drummond's style of 'reporting' can be likened to the Daily Mail, it really is quite easy.

For example the Daily Mail, who are renowned for not giving balance to a story, recently published an article saying that Mohammed is the most popular name in the UK as I'm sure many of you will remember. Let's remember of course that they aren't allowed to tell blatant lies.

So what they do is add disclaimers such as "when all the different variations are added up together", of course the forget to add that the same was not done for traditional English names. The result is that the readers who cannot read between the lines are left believing that there are more Mohammed's in the UK which fits perfectly into their agenda. Nationalism sells and sensationalism helps it along wonderfully.

So the Daily Mail publish an article about something that is in fact true, yet in reality it is just a lie that helps them to sell more papers. The facts that are included are true facts but without the full story, they actually mean very little.

Read between the lines

Hang on a minute, I'm no fan of the Daily Mail but are you saying there is a Traditional English Name that when taken with all it's variations is more popular in the UK than the Islamic Name Mohammed and all its variations?

Save us reading between the lines and put up or shut up.

Are you deliberately missing the point?

No not at all, you've failed to substantiate what you've said - Either Mohammed and all derivatives of Mohammed is the most popular boy's name in the UK or it is not - You've suggested a level ground is to compare with derivatives of traditional English names - Are you suggesting that there is a traditional English name that together with all it's derivatives is more popular in the UK than the name Mohammed and all it's derivatives?

If so what is that name?

Point of note, since Muslims living in the UK are from a wide range of different countries / mother tongue language backgrounds, the variations in the way they transliterate the name Mohammed is of significance.

A British Muslim of Pakistani background can of course be expected to spell the name Mohammed differently from, say, a British Muslim of Somali background. Counting those variations is entirely reasonable.

So again, what is that Traditional English name with all the variations?

[LaoPo]

Drummond's style of 'reporting' can be likened to the Daily Mail, it really is quite easy.

For example the Daily Mail, who are renowned for not giving balance to a story, recently published an article saying that Mohammed is the most popular name in the UK as I'm sure many of you will remember. Let's remember of course that they aren't allowed to tell blatant lies.

So what they do is add disclaimers such as "when all the different variations are added up together", of course the forget to add that the same was not done for traditional English names. The result is that the readers who cannot read between the lines are left believing that there are more Mohammed's in the UK which fits perfectly into their agenda. Nationalism sells and sensationalism helps it along wonderfully.

So the Daily Mail publish an article about something that is in fact true, yet in reality it is just a lie that helps them to sell more papers. The facts that are included are true facts but without the full story, they actually mean very little.

Read between the lines

Hang on a minute, I'm no fan of the Daily Mail but are you saying there is a Traditional English Name that when taken with all it's variations is more popular in the UK than the Islamic Name Mohammed and all its variations?

Save us reading between the lines and put up or shut up.

Are you deliberately missing the point?

No not at all, you've failed to substantiate what you've said - Either Mohammed and all derivatives of Mohammed is the most popular boy's name in the UK or it is not - You've suggested a level ground is to compare with derivatives of traditional English names - Are you suggesting that there is a traditional English name that together with all it's derivatives is more popular in the UK than the name Mohammed and all it's derivatives?

If so what is that name?

Point of note, since Muslims living in the UK are from a wide range of different countries / mother tongue language backgrounds, the variations in the way they transliterate the name Mohammed is of significance.

A British Muslim of Pakistani background can of course be expected to spell the name Mohammed differently from, say, a British Muslim of Somali background. Counting those variations is entirely reasonable.

So again, what is that Traditional English name with all the variations?

I'm sorry GuestHouse & Moonrakers but the discussion about Mohammed's name in the UK is entirely OFF TOPIC and has nothing to do with the OP's question WHY Mr. Drummonds' website was off-air.

LaoPo

[Lovat]

I'm leaving this thread now anyway.

I've said my piece, you can all go back to listening to the gospel of Drummond.

Is that because he answered your innuendos and knocked your allegations down?

[random]

Andrew Drummond does not have a great reputation in Thailand as anything other than a stringer. He went through a court process some years ago regarding defamation but not sure what the outcome was. So understandably he may well have trodden on someone's toes and now the Thai Police have stepped in as this could be a case of repeat offender and they will be none too kind this time around.

The matter you refer to was resolved earlier this year in Drummonds favour, I am aware of this as he was using the same lawyer as my company uses.

[Nawtier]

Not when it comes to beating his kids or fighting off ladyboy robbers though.. JFYI by his own public admission no speculation on my part..

And that is the lighter end of his annebriated outbursts......what about the lawyer he threatened to kill ?

He also threatened to kill drummond I believe and some gimp that poisoned his pooch.

Plus plus....many other vile activities he gets up to over in his kingdom.

[geriatrickid]

Moonrakers,

You are making a few claims that are not substantiated.

The results that are cited are self reported aren't they? In other words, was there an audit to verify the claims? Where was the oversight? Was there any way of knowing that people were successfully treated/ It reminds me of those Mexican clinics that promise to cure cancer. IMO there is more oversight and checking for compliance in a slaughterhouse then there is in a rehab facility.

Let's deal with this from a general perspective and not picking on any one facility. You say the staff are qualified. How do you know that? Are you certain that the skill sets are appropriate for the admitted patients? A proper rehab facility will have on staff psychiatrists, not someone paid just to hang a shingle so it looks ok, nurse practioners and experienced staff with bonafide credentials. Have you ever verified the credentials of these rehab specialists? IMO in respect to local treatment facilities targeted at the lucrative foreign market is that there is an absence of staff with actual qualifications and clinical hands on experience that treat the patients. My reading of the qualifications is that there is alot of padding.

Don't get fooled by seeing someone's name and assuming that the named person is doing the case work. A prudent client always checks with the relevant regulatory bodies to see if the people described as the care providers are actually licensed or if they have ever had disciplinary actions taken against them. One of the tragedies in North America is that a physician can be censured by a provincial or state medical college or regulator, but then move to another state/province or country to set up shop and patients will never know.

I think Mr. Drummond's article may have saved a life or two. Not too shabby.

Edited November 17, 2010 by geriatrickid

[andrewdrummond]

I'm leaving this thread now anyway.

I've said my piece, you can all go back to listening to the gospel of Drummond.

Is that because he answered your innuendos and knocked your allegations down?

Well thank you Lovat, Laop, Buchold, and other people who have been supporting me here. I turned to my colleague last night and said: 'Look there's actually lot of support coming in from ThaiVisa people'.

He replied: 'Yep, but just wait'.

Still its nice while its lasting. And comforting in a way to see my loudest critics are still off the wall. Dont know how Mohammed came into all this - but I'm half expecting a regular poster to chime in with' Did you know Mohmd had a nine year old wife?' rant.

As for the guy who said I wrote like the Daily Mail - well he is right in parts. On straight news i generally set a Daily Mail news styleb(Not the Daily Mail we will hound this guy out of his house and home style) . Its acceptable to both the Telegraph and the SUN. They can screw with it to fit their own agenda.

Actually I like the Daily Mail. Just when you are thinking Britain is okay, the DM will re-assure you that the place is going to the dogs.

As for criticism of me,. well its welcome, call me a tabloid hack, no probs, even though I have spent the last 20 odd years with the Standard, Times and Observer. I do have some solid tabloid roots as do many journalists on the ' heavies'.

Btw: Pictures are in the main up on site now, but updating and more security measures to be taken before I will go into it and put new stuff up.,

[Buchholz]

Well thank you Lovat, Laop, Buchold, and other people who have been supporting me here.

Buchwald has been vary reasonable and patient with you and still you fight him.

How did Buchholz become Buchwald?

Perhaps he sensed I am fan of both Clay Buchholz (left) AND Art Buchwald (right)?

I can't say the same about Aaron Buchold from MySpace.

ok, seriously now, it's good news to hear your site is on its way to getting fully revitalized and thanks for the diss from your colleague. The accuracy of it made me chuckle.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Buchholz

[TCW]

I often read Andrew Drummond's website. The expose he did on Hua Hin British mafia was excellent, and much else that he writes is very entertaining.

For some reason I thought the very mention of his name was banned on Thai Visa. Clearly I was wrong, but it's good to see his website getting deserved publicity.

[SpoliaOpima]

While the heavily tattooed specialist in

I could have just left it right there actually. The man has tattoos.

I suggest we go back on topic and leave the personal feelings about the writing style of Mr. Drummond aside.

LaoPo

What would be the point of that.

I am pointing out clear examples of how his writing style is sensationalist. Or can we only say good things about him? People refute that he is sensationalist and ask for examples yet when I do, I am told that I shouldn't!

I'm a journalist by trade. Andrew's writing is the very definition of sensationalist.

By the way, I suspect this thread may have been a publicity stunt on his part. And isn't this the second time you've registered at thaivisa, Andrew?

Edited November 17, 2010 by SpoliaOpima

[haveaniceday]

"By the way, I suspect this thread may have been a publicity stunt on his part"A website going down is hardly a publicity stunt, (in my opinion anyway).

I doubt Drummond would be trying to win friends at Thai Visa, he has been, if my memory serves me correctly, critical of the TV forums in the past, of their news section. I can't be bothered to waste time going back to read stuff, but I thought there was a 'agree to disagree' stance, lets move on kind of feeling, I am sure if I interpreted things wrong, he or TV George will correct, but who cares if they don't !!!!!!

Yep, Drummond, happily by his own admission, is tabloid, I personally don't like tabloid crap. Over the years, I have read many of his stories though, some really hard hitting and he is not scared of pounding a story like a pitbull and not intimidated by people who are "protected" by Gov staff. (Are people even allowed to hint on the new Thai Visa moderation levels that there could be some corruption in Thailand police and Gov, or is that banned as well?)

What are the other options here, AP who has just copy paste the same stuff for 50% of the story which is very annoying, BBC, CNN, oh yeah Nation and BKK Post......... The nation, well, what to say ? To me, it's all Tabloid, and the later two in that list are simply nasty, I get exposed to the Nation a bit here at Nation TV news. At least Drummond takes on stories others will not touch it seems.

I presume that Tabloid media pays the bills, so supply and demand maybe ?.

Anyway, I am no Jurno, nor ever want to be.

Curious though, in Thailand, would a Youtube vid and an admission for drug use like what happened to the owner of the drug rehab centre, land you in hot water with the BIB?

Anyone know what happened, if anything to the tax concession to the Porn chap? I presume at worst a couple of little brown envelopes could save any face there. Just had not seen any follow up anywhere, or is it a case of no other media outlet would touch it out of fear? I would have thought a local Thai rag would have run with it.

Edited November 17, 2010 by haveaniceday

[andrewdrummond]

I'm a journalist by trade. Andrew's writing is the very definition of sensationalist.

By the way, I suspect this thread may have been a publicity stunt on his part. And isn't this the second time you've registered at thaivisa, Andrew?

Answer to the above from Spolia Opima

Oh dear. If you are a journalist by trade then I'm afraid you may be stumbling at the first gate. I do not know what type of journalist you are (and I am sure you are not going to tell me, but I have dealt comfortably with pretty much all of which the best news publications in the west over the years. I am a sensational journalist in the sense I intend to raise people's sensations.(ie get read) Sensationalist as you appear to translate it is that that the truth is stretched to become a lie.

Here's two examples of a way the same story would be written

(1) Shouting:

SUN: This is Shere Khan the tattooed British boss of a drug clinic for celebs. He is high as a kite on 'ice' with a tart in a country where people are executed for dealing in drugs!

(2)Studied:

Telegraph: The British proprietor of a Thai drugs and alchohol unit in Thailand where Hollywood stars and Royals have been treated for substance abuse problems yesterday resigned after being confronted with a video allegedly showing him smoking crystal methamphetamine in a hotel room in Bangkok with a female sex worker.

Shere Khan, aged 88,, who claimed Lord Melton Mowbray amongst his clients, admitted he had made a 'terrible mistake'. etc

Personally I go for the middle ground. Both stories are true

As a journalist, is the first intro sensationalist? If so tell me why? IF not where have I been sensationalist in your opinion. (apart from stealing a name from Jungle Book) But I would love to know what sort of journalist I am, er, being lectured by?

Your last point: When George called me and invited me to answer here I asked him what was my name and log-in. He gave me one he said was mine which I did not even remember. I probably have had four or five names over the years together with my colleagues. Is there a point to this? I watch many forums in Thailand. i have not taken an active part in ThaiVisa since the Pai shootings fiasco.

Publicity stunt. Not sure what u mean here. Is that your considered opinion?

Apologies to Bucholz by the way - I was writing from memory, could not see his post.

Edited November 17, 2010 by andrewdrummond

[SpoliaOpima]

Here's two examples of a way the same story would be written

(1) Shouting:

SUN: This is Shere Khan the tattooed British boss of a drug clinic for celebs. He is high as a kite on 'ice' with a tart in a country where people are executed for dealing in drugs!

Is this 'Shouting'?

EXPOSED! HIGH ON ICE! Thai rehab boss & drugs therapist to the stars

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2010/11/07/exposed-high-on-ice-thai-rehab-boss-drugs-therapist-to-the-stars/

No one's lecturing. Just supporting the argument someone made that sensationalism is your style. You're not the 'studied' type, IMO, and I think the quote from your website speaks for itself.

But I don't want to waste my time debating it either way. Sensationalism has its place in the market, and I'm sure you've consciously made a choice to write the way that you do.

I wasn't suggesting that letting your website go down was a stunt (did it go down?), rather that the starting of this thread, by a newbie, might be. We'll never know, unless that member were to confirm it.

[LaoPo]

I'm a journalist by trade. Andrew's writing is the very definition of sensationalist.

By the way, I suspect this thread may have been a publicity stunt on his part. And isn't this the second time you've registered at thaivisa, Andrew?

For a journalist by trade your comment is not very chique and your suspection is even way below the belt as you could have read earlier that Drummond's website was attacked by means of DDoS* and brought down.

I've never heard of anyone bringing down his own website because of a publicity stunt.

THAT alone is sensational thinking from your side....

But you're brave enough to speak out about a fellow journalist so I suppose you're brave enough to warmly inform the audience here which kind of quality media you work for?

*DDoS: http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid14_gci557336,00.html

PS: I can confirm that Drummond's website is still down in various parts of Europe and the damage for him is therefore nasty; so much for a stunt by the owner

LaoPo

Edited November 17, 2010 by LaoPo

[SpoliaOpima]

None of your business, Lao Po. Not claiming ethical superiority, just pointing out the obvious. So you don't find Drummond's writing style sensationalistic? Fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and everyone's entitled to make a living.

Edited November 17, 2010 by SpoliaOpima

[stander]

Andrew Drummond is an excellent Scottish journalist and I for one thank him for all the good work over the years.

The fact that he can get the kind of manic reaction out of that spineless DD thing, is prove that he does a good job.

[jdinasia]

None of your business, Lao Po. Not claiming ethical superiority, just pointing out the obvious. So you don't find Drummond's writing style sensationalistic? Fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and everyone's entitled to make a living.

1) I wouldn't have answered the invasive question asked by LP either.

2) You do appear to be attempting to claim ethical/moral superiority.

[LaoPo]

None of your business, Lao Po. Not claiming ethical superiority, just pointing out the obvious. So you don't find Drummond's writing style sensationalistic? Fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and everyone's entitled to make a living.

Your style of writing* proves what kind of journalist you are. My own opinion about whomever is not important; I was responding to YOUR qualifications about a fellow journalist.

Also, you're not man enough to apologise for your incorrect -sensational- assumption that it could have been a publicity stunt by Drummond.

Weak, and a missed chance for a "Gentleman" journalist by trade

* written by SpoliaOpima:

"By the way, I suspect this thread may have been a publicity stunt on his part"

but later he wrote:

"I wasn't suggesting that letting your website go down was a stunt.."

So much for the credibility of non-sensational journalist SpoliaOpima

LaoPo

[dpb]

good to hear that it was just technical problems for the site being down and not something else

there isnt many people here in thailand that are exposing the shady behaviours of foreigners and i respect AD for doing since we all know there isnt much to be expected in return (except a court case or 2)

Edited November 17, 2010 by dpb

[LaoPo]

None of your business, Lao Po. Not claiming ethical superiority, just pointing out the obvious. So you don't find Drummond's writing style sensationalistic? Fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and everyone's entitled to make a living.

1) I wouldn't have answered the invasive question asked by LP either.

2) You do appear to be attempting to claim ethical/moral superiority.

If you would have read my sentence more carefully dear Jdinasia, it was a rhetorical but inviting sentence to the esteemed SpoliaOpima and of course he isn't brave enough to inform us about his job.

If it would have been me, working for a quality media source, I would proudly inform the audience on TV about my media bosses.

But, It's easier to attack a fellow journalist and hide thereafter.

But I fully agree with your #2

LaoPo

[Lovat]

Spolia Optima you asked 'Is this 'Shouting?'

EXPOSED! HIGH ON ICE! Thai rehab boss & drugs therapist to the stars"

It may be shouting, an internet term because it is in capital letters, but can I ask you, how does this fit your 'journalistic' description of sensasionalist - and how do you describe sensationalist? And Drummond posed you questions about two stories intro-ed in different ways.

Some readers I guess prefer stories presented in a certain way. Seems to me it may be a lot harder writing a story for The SUN than the Daily Telecrap.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Lovat

[jdinasia]

None of your business, Lao Po. Not claiming ethical superiority, just pointing out the obvious. So you don't find Drummond's writing style sensationalistic? Fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and everyone's entitled to make a living.

1) I wouldn't have answered the invasive question asked by LP either.

2) You do appear to be attempting to claim ethical/moral superiority.

If you would have read my sentence more carefully dear Jdinasia, it was a rhetorical but inviting sentence to the esteemed SpoliaOpima and of course he isn't brave enough to inform us about his job.

If it would have been me, working for a quality media source, I would proudly inform the audience on TV about my media bosses.

But, It's easier to attack a fellow journalist and hide thereafter.

But I fully agree with your #2

LaoPo

Based upon your posting history here I suggest that you would NOT in fact have divulged personal information. You wouldn't even state where you were posting from It is however, easier to attack a poster and his nationality when you are hiding your own

People choose to (and rightly so) refrain from divulging information which could lead to figuring out their exact identities online. (Note -- the country you are posting from is not one of those things!)

IMHO --- AD's type of journalism does come across as 'sensational' and when you are trying to sell your writing that certainly isn't a bad thing. "Attention seeking" is bad in a work environment or a classroom, but not in a commercial enterprise.

[LaoPo]

Based upon your posting history here I suggest that you would NOT in fact have divulged personal information. You wouldn't even state where you were posting from It is however, easier to attack a poster and his nationality when you are hiding your own

People choose to (and rightly so) refrain from divulging information which could lead to figuring out their exact identities online. (Note -- the country you are posting from is not one of those things!)

That's correct but I'm not the journalist who was criticizing another colleague about his writing style.

Quite a few on this forum (could) know where I'm posting from and/or know my nationality but I don't see any point in informing the member audience here over-and-over again about my whereabouts or nationality. But I wouldn't be so blunt as to answer like a journalist-by-trade said: "None of your business, Lao Po".

Not my style.

As a matter of fact I really wouldn't know about your own nationality (or 99% of the members here) or where you are posting from and you know what?

I'm not in the least interested in your nationality or whereabouts; the only thing I'm interested in is (your) content, not the person behind the writing, unless he is a friend who isn't afraid of giving sophisticated and polite answers if I would ask someone something in private, instead giving short, strange and weird non-answers....if you get my point.

And, where was I attacking a poster and his nationality ?

It's not my style to "attack".............criticizing....... yes, but not attacking.

You wouldn't believe your eyes if you would see me attack someone and re-read my content, but as said, not my style

LaoPo

[Buchholz]

Well thank you Lovat, Laop, Buchold, and other people who have been supporting me here.

Apologies to Bucholz by the way - I was writing from memory, could not see his post.

Getting closer, but don't worry, the "third time's a charm"....

it's B-u-c-h-h-o-l-z

From:

http://www.searchforancestors.com

Buchholz Surname Origin

(Origin German) beechwood.

Confounding Germans...

[mca]

I reckon Andrew was going to come up with " Buttplug " next.

[geriatrickid]

Question: Was the information presented in Mr. Drummond's article inaccurate or false? That's all that matters. If the info was accurate, then all the other issues about Mr. Drummond are unimportant.