Government Warnings For Time Share

[BangTaoBoy]

Hence the need for the hard sell.

Take away the touts and there would be no sales as there is a very limited number of people who would ever actually be interested in timeshare and of those who proceed very few who are satisfied (certainly nowhere near the number to keep the industry alive).

There is little or no value in timeshare offerings.

I have some sympathy for those who fall for it, but they are adults.

Those involved in the industry as OPC or 'management' are worthless scum IMHO.

I just said that.

[taxin]

As for it having a bad reputation I dont think the industry has, there is more to timeshare than cockney kids on motorbikes with scratch cards, but people fail to see past this. I believe that if you take away timeshare touts the negative image or any bad reputation that comes with the industry will be gone, maybe the authorities in Patong have seen this hence the warning signs.

So.......why don't the timeshare companies see this?

There must be a reason why they have to resort to hard-sell tactics.

I'm afraid I don't really buy into the "not a necessity" argument.

That is what all marketing is; to convince you to buy the unnecessary, yet, many, many other industries whose products aren't strictly necessary don't have to resort to questionable marketing techniques.

Frankly, I know nothing about timeshare, but, it does have a bad reputation. That is why timeshare companies go out of their way to call what they are anything else, but timeshare. Holiday clubs is the latest, I believe.

I know that in the US these companies cleaned up their act and are now very popular.

It seems the dodgy companies stick to countries where the law is either not very clear, or, hardly ever enforced.

They probably can see this, but as most of these companies are ran by dropouts with hardly any business acumen (certainly no sales & marketing experience prior to entering the industry) most simply do not know any of any other way to get customers to the table, the drag from the street tactic is the only way they know.

[ESB7]

Timeshare has been around for more than 30 years and will be around for many more years to come, it will never be sold by simply having a sign outside an office that says "Timeshare this way !", for as long as this is the case then the marketing techniques that a lot of people frown upon will always be used.

Why is that then? If it is a good thing, why doesn't it sell itself?

Why has timeshare got a bad reputation?

Genuinely interested in your reply.

Touche'.

Good question. Interested in the answer as well.

Yes there are people who are happy wth their time shares, I would guess the number is getting lower every day, as they are very much a thing of the past, but if those happy people were enough to sustain the business, then why the need for any underhand tactics?

Why couldn't you just have an office and wait for the people to come through the doors.

The answer is The Costas and a certain man from Bath................30 years and the reputaion in certain quaters cant be shaken

[ESB7]

Hence the need for the hard sell.

Take away the touts and there would be no sales as there is a very limited number of people who would ever actually be interested in timeshare and of those who proceed very few who are satisfied (certainly nowhere near the number to keep the industry alive).

There is little or no value in timeshare offerings.

I have some sympathy for those who fall for it, but they are adults.

Those involved in the industry as OPC or 'management' are worthless scum IMHO.

Thats a very good point you make about value in offerings..........I feel very much the same about a few other things in Thailand, such as international schools charging extorniate fees when then employ second rate 'sexpats' as qualified teachers.......dive companies that employ x bar girls that have access to your credit card details and employ again 'sexpats' as dive instuctors.....guys that used to pack shelves in Tescos back home but try and open a bar/restaurant acting like they are a culinary expert...the list is endless..............still, if its not value for money, then vote with your feet and dont purchase but I do have some sympathy for those that fall for the above.

[stevenl]

Clean up your own house first before even thinking about the perceived dirt of others.

[ESB7]

Clean up your own house first before even thinking about the perceived dirt of others.

I thought I made a valid point about value for money and whether a customer should purchase a product or not..............percieved is the appropriate word when talking about timeshare/fractional ownership as it is what people percieve rather than what they know unlike the examples I mentioned above which are in most circumstances factual.

[KarenBravo]

Thats a very good point you make about value in offerings..........I feel very much the same about a few other things in Thailand, such as international schools charging extorniate fees when then employ second rate 'sexpats' as qualified teachers.......dive companies that employ x bar girls that have access to your credit card details and employ again 'sexpats' as dive instuctors.....guys that used to pack shelves in Tescos back home but try and open a bar/restaurant acting like they are a culinary expert...the list is endless..............still, if its not value for money, then vote with your feet and dont purchase but I do have some sympathy for those that fall for the above.

Excuse me, but, a persons sexual proclivities has absolutely nothing to do with their business acumen.

[FritsSikkink]

A good deal that's why:

At any given time, SellMyTimeshareNOW hosts tens of thousands of for sale by owner timeshare advertisements on our website

[NamKangMan]

You get a 14 day cooling of period where people approach you to sell something, not if you decide to buy something yourself.

Where i come from very few people would buy a timeshare package it is a dead industry.

If anyone approaches you to sell something no matter what it is its covered by the 14 day cool of law

which is enforced by the Dept of Consumer Affairs

Well done Peter ! Just spent 10 minutes on Google looking it up have you ? Really, well done for actually spending the time and doing the research before posting.

What you are referring to is a law in the EU otherwise known as "door stop selling", timeshare sales was included in this law due to the marketing tactics used. This is one of the reasons why Phuket has been flooded by these so called "OPC's" over the last couple of years.

When this law came in all the timeshare touts in Europe (mainly Spain) were out of a job, the easy option was Thailand due to its relaxed laws and the ease in which to pay off the police. Now the bubble has burst out of sheer stupidity and greed from the timeshare companies that have taken these people in, who really are nothing more than ex Club 18-30 reps living off 20,000 Baht per month.

The cooling off period was introduced in Europe a long time ago...and the reason OPCs come here, is the high season is when its low season in Europe.......misunderstandings again

I am not talking about the seasonal influx of OPC's where Europe goes quiet and the OPC's move to a more busier season in Thailand, im talking about the general influx over the past 2 or 3 years since timeshare came under the doorstop selling rule in Europe, which has subsequently left a lot of OPC's out of work and nowhere to go.

By the way ESB7, im not having a pop at you, in fact your replies to petercallen, namkang and telewasrobbed could not have been any closer to what I would have said, you have saved me a lot of time trying to educate these people what marketing actually means. An unsolicited approach let that be a telemarketer, an OPC or a window sales man knocking on your door.. it is still a form of marketing that is being practiced in countries all around the world. Gifts are given as incentives to get ones interest, all of which comes under the same banner of the company's marketing expense. Unfortunately the uneducated can only shout the words "scam" ! These people have probably never worked in marketing, their whole working lives have probably been spent working in a factory.

I think namkangman is a bit out of touch and off way off the mark talking about having 2 weeks holiday in a building that eventually falls down, land laws, capital growth.. Im guessing that he thinks hes in the real estate forum. Yet another expert that does not have a clue what they are talking about.

Timeshare has been around for more than 30 years and will be around for many more years to come, it will never be sold by simply having a sign outside an office that says "Timeshare this way !", for as long as this is the case then the marketing techniques that a lot of people frown upon will always be used.

As timeshare will be around for years to come the best that Phuket can hope for is to eliminate the negative image that brings it down, a good start would be the end of OPC's, as this is where the majority of the negativity comes from. You read any post on an internet forum and nearly every time its is about being hassled in the street and being whisked off to a sales presentation, very rarely do you see any complaints about the actual product, and when you do get someone who complains about the actual product its always from someone who purchased 2 weeks before and regrets it.

As livinginkata says there are happy timeshare owners around the world but some TV members wont accept this, probably because they are generally unhappy with their own lives and want everyone else to be the same. They are already standing by sharpening their knives asking timeshare owners to come forward on the thread. They would probably do the same to someone who has just bought a house in Thailand, bought a bar, just got married to a bar girl.. Pathetic lot really !

Again, before you numpties reply with "You obviously work in timeshare" let me remind you that I am in favor of what the authorities are trying to do in Patong, hopefully this will wash out all the dead wood that is floating around and creating a poor image of the island.

The buildings don't fall down because you have to keep paying, and paying, and paying to keep them up.

You seem to think what they are doing is called "marketing." Here's some marketing for you - it 's called "word of mouth" and I market timeshare everyday by telling tourist I meet to stay away from the tuk-tuks and the timeshare. How's that for marketing? :)

Maybe you can tell us why they put the signs up in the first place? Do you think it's because they have received soooooooo many complaints and it's giving Phuket a bad image?

If they are not "passing it off" as real estate, why don't they just call themselves

"holiday agents" because, from what you are saying, that's all they do, sell you a holiday every year. :)

Edited February 26, 2011 by NamKangMan

[ESB7]

[

What you are referring to is a law in the EU otherwise known as "door stop selling", timeshare sales was included in this law due to the marketing tactics used. This is one of the reasons why Phuket has been flooded by these so called "OPC's" over the last couple of years.

When this law came in all the timeshare touts in Europe (mainly Spain) were out of a job, the easy option was Thailand due to its relaxed laws and the ease in which to pay off the police. Now the bubble has burst out of sheer stupidity and greed from the timeshare companies that have taken these people in, who really are nothing more than ex Club 18-30 reps living off 20,000 Baht per month.

The cooling off period was introduced in Europe a long time ago...and the reason OPCs come here, is the high season is when its low season in Europe.......misunderstandings again

I am not talking about the seasonal influx of OPC's where Europe goes quiet and the OPC's move to a more busier season in Thailand, im talking about the general influx over the past 2 or 3 years since timeshare came under the doorstop selling rule in Europe, which has subsequently left a lot of OPC's out of work and nowhere to go.

By the way ESB7, im not having a pop at you, in fact your replies to petercallen, namkang and telewasrobbed could not have been any closer to what I would have said, you have saved me a lot of time trying to educate these people what marketing actually means. An unsolicited approach let that be a telemarketer, an OPC or a window sales man knocking on your door.. it is still a form of marketing that is being practiced in countries all around the world. Gifts are given as incentives to get ones interest, all of which comes under the same banner of the company's marketing expense. Unfortunately the uneducated can only shout the words "scam" ! These people have probably never worked in marketing, their whole working lives have probably been spent working in a factory.

I think namkangman is a bit out of touch and off way off the mark talking about having 2 weeks holiday in a building that eventually falls down, land laws, capital growth.. Im guessing that he thinks hes in the real estate forum. Yet another expert that does not have a clue what they are talking about.

Timeshare has been around for more than 30 years and will be around for many more years to come, it will never be sold by simply having a sign outside an office that says "Timeshare this way !", for as long as this is the case then the marketing techniques that a lot of people frown upon will always be used.

As timeshare will be around for years to come the best that Phuket can hope for is to eliminate the negative image that brings it down, a good start would be the end of OPC's, as this is where the majority of the negativity comes from. You read any post on an internet forum and nearly every time its is about being hassled in the street and being whisked off to a sales presentation, very rarely do you see any complaints about the actual product, and when you do get someone who complains about the actual product its always from someone who purchased 2 weeks before and regrets it.

As livinginkata says there are happy timeshare owners around the world but some TV members wont accept this, probably because they are generally unhappy with their own lives and want everyone else to be the same. They are already standing by sharpening their knives asking timeshare owners to come forward on the thread. They would probably do the same to someone who has just bought a house in Thailand, bought a bar, just got married to a bar girl.. Pathetic lot really !

Again, before you numpties reply with "You obviously work in timeshare" let me remind you that I am in favor of what the authorities are trying to do in Patong, hopefully this will wash out all the dead wood that is floating around and creating a poor image of the island.

The buildings don't fall down because you have to keep paying, and paying, and paying to keep them up.

You seem to think what they are doing is called "marketing." Here's some marketing for you - it called "word of mouth" and I market timeshare everyday by telling torist I meet to stay away from the tuk-tuks and the timeshare. How's that for marketing? :)

Maybe you can tell us why they put the signs up in the first place? Do you think it's because they have received soooooooo many complaints and it's giving Phuket a bad image?

If they are not "passing it off" as real estate, why don't they just call themselves

"holiday agents" because, from what you are saying, that's all they, sell you a holiday every year. :)

A small annual/bi annual maitenance fee is payable for up keep of gardens etc which I will hasten to add is a lot less anually than what you would pay if you lived in a gated community......I dont think 3,500-4,500 baht each year or every other yearly equates to 'keep paying, paying, paying' as you stated...............word of mouth also works in timeshare with family members recommending to their kids and other relatives, so yes I must agree that it is a great way of marketing also..

[ESB7]

Thats a very good point you make about value in offerings..........I feel very much the same about a few other things in Thailand, such as international schools charging extorniate fees when then employ second rate 'sexpats' as qualified teachers.......dive companies that employ x bar girls that have access to your credit card details and employ again 'sexpats' as dive instuctors.....guys that used to pack shelves in Tescos back home but try and open a bar/restaurant acting like they are a culinary expert...the list is endless..............still, if its not value for money, then vote with your feet and dont purchase but I do have some sympathy for those that fall for the above.

Excuse me, but, a persons sexual proclivities has absolutely nothing to do with their business acumen.

But when it involves teaching minors or involves the safety of peoples lives I think it has a great weighting on which kind of people are suitable for certain proffessions....

[NamKangMan]

At ESB7:

The buildings don't fall down because you have to keep paying, and paying, and paying to keep them up.

You seem to think what they are doing is called "marketing." Here's some marketing for you - it called "word of mouth" and I market timeshare everyday by telling tourist I meet to stay away from the tuk-tuks and the timeshare. How's that for marketing? :)

Maybe you can tell us why they put the signs up in the first place? Do you think it's because they have received soooooooo many complaints and it's giving Phuket a bad image?

If they are not "passing it off" as real estate, why don't they just call themselves

"holiday agents" because, from what you are saying, that's all they do, sell you a holiday every year. :)

Edited February 26, 2011 by NamKangMan

[taxin]

At ESB7:

Maybe you can tell us why they put the signs up in the first place? Do you think it's because they have received soooooooo many complaints and it's giving Phuket a bad image?

The signs may have been put up in an attempt to invite the timeshare companies to come forward and discuss how they can work together (i.e. get more money out of them). The authorities don't want to stop the touts, if they did they could do this by walking into the premises of the timeshare companies and say enough is enough. Its not about the image of Phuket because they are not doing anything about the Tuk Tuks, jet skis and the bar rip-offs.

It takes one timeshare company to go to the authorities to try and "work it out" and the signs will be gone. The timeshare company that approaches them will of course have conditions attached on their side of the bargain, so dont be surprised if there is only one timeshare company left in Patong by the end of the current high season. Unfortunately this would not solve the tout problem, it just means they will all be working for one company instead of several, but its a step in the right direction.

[Sabre]

I think what a lot of people forget is that there are very few actual voters in Patong.

The people that operate the jet-skis, own the sun-loungers and control the tuk-tuks are voters.

This is why papering over cracks is preferable to actual solutions which will disenfranchise the people that have the power to put people in power.

What is true in Patong is also true for the other beaches.

I'm pretty sure that's not how the system works in Phuket.

My understanding is the votes are purchased.

[crusty]

At ESB7:

Maybe you can tell us why they put the signs up in the first place? Do you think it's because they have received soooooooo many complaints and it's giving Phuket a bad image?

The signs may have been put up in an attempt to invite the timeshare companies to come forward and discuss how they can work together (i.e. get more money out of them). The authorities don't want to stop the touts, if they did they could do this by walking into the premises of the timeshare companies and say enough is enough. Its not about the image of Phuket because they are not doing anything about the Tuk Tuks, jet skis and the bar rip-offs.

It takes one timeshare company to go to the authorities to try and "work it out" and the signs will be gone. The timeshare company that approaches them will of course have conditions attached on their side of the bargain, so dont be surprised if there is only one timeshare company left in Patong by the end of the current high season. Unfortunately this would not solve the tout problem, it just means they will all be working for one company instead of several, but its a step in the right direction.

Just wish our guys had the motivation to do the same over here. These scumbags contribute mightily to the bad name of Samui ! Perhaps they could discuss this at their next Tessabahn meeting ?

Edited February 26, 2011 by crusty

[merijn]

Good, small start. When will the touts be checked for workpermits? Answer is easy.

Timeshare/Fractional Ownership companies dont employ 'touts'..........forget the bad image of Tenerife 20 years ago......all OPCs and Reps have work permits so are working legally....if a customer buys 25 years of holidays in Phuket isnt that a good thing for the economy.........A lack of knowledge combined with a little jealousy I think is why most residents with tin pot businesses resent these guys for earning a decent wage

I don't know where you get that information from as it is not correct or even possible.

Non of the time share ..... touts working on the streets have a WP as this is not possible.

They only can have a WP for working in a office but not for stopping tourists openly in the streets.

And i don't care how you call them for me they are touts who harass tourists.

[taxin]

Unfortunately you are wrong, most of them do actually have work permits. You are right however, work permits are meant to be issued for a place of work and not for roaming around the streets, but this rule is not enforced in the timeshare industry.

In fact the rule in general is never enforced. Would a farang real estate rep be working illegally if he was showing a potential buyer a property that is not in the vicinity of his office ? Would a farang teacher be working illegally if he were on a day trip with his class visiting the zoo ? How many people are working illegally by having a work permit assigned to some office premises, but work most of the time at home ?

[Chainsaw]

Unfortunately you are wrong, most of them do actually have work permits. You are right however, work permits are meant to be issued for a place of work and not for roaming around the streets, but this rule is not enforced in the timeshare industry.

In fact the rule in general is never enforced. Would a farang real estate rep be working illegally if he was showing a potential buyer a property that is not in the vicinity of his office ? Would a farang teacher be working illegally if he were on a day trip with his class visiting the zoo ? How many people are working illegally by having a work permit assigned to some office premises, but work most of the time at home ?

I may be wrong but it's my understanding that any farang company has to employ 4 Thais for every work permit issued. There must be a helluva lot of Thais working for these companies if 'most of' the touts have work permits, and trying to equate a real estate rep showing a site to customer who has requested the service or a teacher making a field trip with his class, with timeshare touts who accost perfect strangers in the street, smacks of desperation in trying to prove a point on your part.

[merijn]

Unfortunately you are wrong, most of them do actually have work permits. You are right however, work permits are meant to be issued for a place of work and not for roaming around the streets, but this rule is not enforced in the timeshare industry.

In fact the rule in general is never enforced. Would a farang real estate rep be working illegally if he was showing a potential buyer a property that is not in the vicinity of his office ? Would a farang teacher be working illegally if he were on a day trip with his class visiting the zoo ? How many people are working illegally by having a work permit assigned to some office premises, but work most of the time at home ?

So they work illegally !

Sometimes they are being checked and arrested by the MIB but after paying a “fine” they are released again.

There is a very big difference between your examples and harassing tourists on the streets for a living.

Edited March 6, 2011 by merijn

[taxin]

So they work illegally !

Sometimes they are being checked and arrested by the MIB but after paying a “fine” they are released again.

There is a very big difference between your examples and harassing tourists on the streets for a living.

I think you may have miss understood my point, maybe you have not read my post properly. Im not trying to compare a timeshare tout with a teacher and real estate reps. I was merely pointing out the issue of the work permits, this being that no matter what profession you are in, you can freely work in other places other than your registered business or place of work and the authorities will not bother you. Yes its illegal but as with many laws in Thailand its another law that is not enforced. The police do pick the touts out regularly because they are easy picking however, this is nothing more than collecting tea money !

Yes, you need 4 Thais per work permit, but the timeshare companies will always find away to work round that. They simply pay extra to get round the rules. Either way, these scumbag timeshare touts will be around for a long time to come, they wont be going anywhere too quickly.

[taxin]

So they work illegally !

Sometimes they are being checked and arrested by the MIB but after paying a “fine” they are released again.

There is a very big difference between your examples and harassing tourists on the streets for a living.

I think you may have miss understood my point, maybe you have not read my post properly. Im not trying to compare a timeshare tout with a teacher and real estate reps. I was merely pointing out the issue of the work permits, this being that no matter what profession you are in, you can freely work in other places other than your registered business or place of work and the authorities will not bother you. Yes its illegal but as with many laws in Thailand its another law that is not enforced. The police do pick the touts out regularly because they are easy picking however, this is nothing more than collecting tea money !

Yes, you need 4 Thais per work permit, but the timeshare companies will always find away to work round that. They simply pay extra to get round the rules. Either way, these low life timeshare touts will be around for a long time to come, they wont be going anywhere too quickly.

[snamos]

Thats a very good point you make about value in offerings..........I feel very much the same about a few other things in Thailand, such as international schools charging extorniate fees when then employ second rate 'sexpats' as qualified teachers.......dive companies that employ x bar girls that have access to your credit card details and employ again 'sexpats' as dive instuctors.....guys that used to pack shelves in Tescos back home but try and open a bar/restaurant acting like they are a culinary expert...the list is endless..............still, if its not value for money, then vote with your feet and dont purchase but I do have some sympathy for those that fall for the above.

Im smirking at this comment....it seems like the "sexpats" have more to offer than the time share touts and they dont have to ride around on bikes annoying people to sell their services and products...touche