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george

Meltdown Likely Under Way At Japan Nuclear Reactor

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Having done a lot of business in Japan over the last 9 years, my prayers go out to the Japanese people. They are a very fine bunch who will persevere through this and move forward. We must assist them in all ways possible.

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I'm going to sign off for a bit...

My butt's very sore, and my wife's none too happy.... :jap:

Edited by jfchandler

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I'm going to sign off for a bit...

My butt's very sore, and my wife's none to happy....

Thanks for all your time and efforts. Well done. :jap:

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I'm going to sign off for a bit...

My butt's very sore, and my wife's none to happy.... :jap:

Stay out of the gay bars and tend to your wifes needs

Sorry just could not help myself. I am standing beside myself with laughter

Edited by bunta71

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Why does the densest seismic network in the world/such an earthquake prone area have Nuclear Reactors.

Of course they need the power it supplies...but still it makes one wonder.

unlimited human insanity mixed with greed and power-games is the most likely answer.

And a very good answer in a nut shell, the time is getting close for all of us to kiss our asses good-by

so earth can heal and start over.

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I'll be sure to follow Bunta's advice... :lol:

Meanwhile, while I take my break, let me leave you all with a serious question, and perhaps some of our nuclear scientist members will know the answer...

In all the hundreds of articles and such I've read on this subject lately, I haven't seen one topic addressed at all:

What exact thing does the sea water and boric acid solution do? Does it just tamp down the nuclear fire, or does it eventually extinguish it?

In other words, once they start down the sea water cooling routine, then what? Are they going to have to continue pumping an ongoing supply of new and cool sea water into Reactors 1 and 3 for ?????? how long....

When and how does it eventually end?

Even if they get regular electricity back, once they've begun the seawater approach, I don't think they can just go back to using the plant's normal cooling systems.

Edited by jfchandler

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Good informative banter guys...Let all of us prayer that this doesn't go belly up...My thoughts as well as everyone elses on here to the families affected by all of this !!

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@BreakingNews Fukushima nuclear plant was tested to withstand 7.9 quake, not 8.9 - wsj http://on.wsj.com/idd9Yo

I always though that there was a big margin (like 50% or more) built into this sort of test.

Yes, but not a 3200% margin. Magnitude scale is a logarithmic scale. Going up one point needs 32x the energy, two points 1000x

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What exact thing does the sea water and boric acid solution do? Does it just tamp down the nuclear fire, or does it eventually extinguish it?

In other words, once they start down the sea water cooling routine, then what? Are they going to have to continue pumping an ongoing supply of new and cool sea water into Reactors 1 and 3 for ?????? how long....

When and how does it eventually end?

Even if they get regular electricity back, once they've begun the seawater approach, I don't think they can just go back to using the plant's normal cooling systems.

Boric acid does basically the same thing as the control rods, absorb neutrons, stopping the reaction.

Right now none of the reactors seem to be critical (in this context read: reacting). The only thing to deal with is the rest heat. This normally takes 3 to 4 days.

Sea water is the $1 billion kill switch, those two reactors are done with. The others may be salvaged. Though after a M9.0 quake it will be a while before they pass certification again.

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Why does the densest seismic network in the world/such an earthquake prone area have Nuclear Reactors.

Of course they need the power it supplies...but still it makes one wonder.

:Thaiflag: Perhaps, you did not know....

Japan prior to the latest incidents was planning on building even larger nuclear power generator plant....

It is frightening.... how Thailand power that be and the power to be.... could so totally and absolutely influence and control

all media in Thailand.... to shut all news concerning Japan predicament on nuclear power plant explosion following the dreadful Tsunami destruction....

I never thought, Thai newsmen and Thai newswomen and Thai news organizations could be so easily influenced.... manipulated.... and controlled....

very tragic indeed.... :Thaiflag:

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Get rid of nuclear plants.

I can only compare this comment to those of tree-huggers when they yell and cry to stop pumping oil and after their protest they would go and jump into their cars/uties/whatever_else_they're_driving and take of to go home. Lead by example! Solar/wind energy is not a substitute and coal power plants create a lot more pollution and have greater effect on human health (at least those leaving nearby). Right now you are probably sitting in the cold AC room, maybe drinking cold beer, have your TV on and writing here on TV. Scrap all that, move into the jungles and live on the trees, THEN you can say let's get rid of nuke plants!

Let's try not to get polarized here. We probably have a lot we can agree upon in principle. I am a 'tree hugger' and BTW, have planted hundreds of trees up here in northern Thailand. But I conserve energy as much as reasonably (some might say 'unreasonably') possible. I don't use Air.con, not in my residences nor in my vehicles. Indeed, I have cut off the fanbelts (for AC) in my 2 cars to gain engine efficiency. I turn off all lights not actively needed. Thailand's biggest energy problem is its abject wastefulness of resources. If I was minister of Energy here, I would be the most hated person in Thailand, but I could cut energy usage by half, I jest not. Solar can work for at least a decent amount (60%?) of municipal energy supply. Open eyes, and see what's available at the cutting edge of the industry. I've also constructed several hw systems (passive solar) which are incredibly cheap, and work very well, thanks.

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As Jdietz states, Boron (Boric acid) performs as a moderator of neutrons which are responsible for the fission. The concentration is increased or decreased based on reaction requirements. Neutron moderation. The sea water is being used as it is a high volume source of coolant (AFAIK).

//edit - Boron also has a high thermal­absorption cross section and can help cool it down. Nuclear power fundamentals

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Translation from the news ticker of German-language online newspaper in Switzerland:

2011-03-13 11:25 UTC

According to a Japanese government source there is probably a core meltdown in two reactors of Fukushima plant 1. Blocks 1 and 3 are now being cooled with sea water. Plant operators are trying all means to prevent that after block 1, also bock 3 explodes. Because of defective pressure valves the technicians do not now how much water is still covering the rods. The only thing certain is that the pressure is rising.

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As Jdietz states, Boron (Boric acid) performs as a moderator of neutrons which are responsible for the fission. The concentration is increased or decreased based on reaction requirements. Neutron moderation. The sea water is being used as it is a high volume source of coolant (AFAIK).

//edit - Boron also has a high thermal­absorption cross section and can help cool it down. Nuclear power fundamentals

Just to add to this, Boron isn't normally used in BWRs (Boiling Water Reactors) in the regulation loop, as it will contaminate the environment. (Neither is sea water :) ) It is meant as a regulation agent in PWRs, which are closed-system.

But like they say, any port in a storm. Those reactors are a write-off now anyways, so just stop the reaction and cool them as efficiently as possible.

It seems like off-site (AC) power has been restored to all reactors now, so it looks like everything can be handled now if things remain stable for a day or 2 more.

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