animatic Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 No doubt there exist large trucks with generators the size of shipping containers. Multiples could be chained through regulators to provide enough power for most large jobs, why not here? The infrastructure, that is transportation, roads, etc. may well be too damaged to easily and quickly get these class of pumps there. Also, these are not your normal pond pumps as you can see below. "In large reactors, as much as 330,000 gallons of water coolant flow through the reactor core every minute. The water that leaves the reactor is sent to either cooling towers or discharged into large bodies of water such as cooling ponds, lakes, rivers, or an ocean." Some interesting reading here > Office of Nuclear Energy Hard to believe that Japan has no access to Sikorsky SkyHook helicopters at the USA Base that can move a large generator with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Bon Appetit!!! Japan radioactivity could enter food chain, children at risk (Reuters) - Radioactive materials spewed into the air by Japan's earthquake-crippled nuclear plant may contaminate food and water resources, with children and unborn babies most at risk of possibly developing cancer. Experts said any exposure to radioactive materials has the potential to cause various kinds of cancers, with higher levels of radiation seen as more dangerous. But they said they needed more accurate measurements for the level of radioactivity in Japan, and the region, to give a proper risk assessment. "The explosions could expose the population to longer-term radiation, which can raise the risk of cancer. These are thyroid cancer, bone cancer and leukemia. Children and fetuses are especially vulnerable," said Lam Ching-wan, chemical pathologist at the University of Hong Kong. "For some individuals even a small amount of radiation can raise the risk of cancer. The higher the radiation, the higher the risk of cancer," said Lam, who is also a member on the American Board of Toxicologists. MORE: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/us-japan-nuclear-health-idUSTRE72E2JF20110315 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsummerday Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 New Russian web site regarding 'radiation development' just appeared. http://meteorf.ru/default_doc.aspx?RgmFolderID=a4e36ec1-c49d-461c-8b4f-167d20cb27d8&RgmDocID=9c8e6d31-5eef-46b9-a09b-ff207213f586 Pay attention to pic.5 . Status of nuclear plume on March 17-18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Its not just the generators which I believe they said they have, the fact remains that they too need fuel and if I recall the other day they had problems ensuring the supply of this. Anyways, I think we are beyond pumps and generators sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) Ditto, and, this plant is right on the coast...presumably with relatively easy coastal access by ship... The U.S. has a ton of soldiers and air resources deployed in and around Japan... I'm sure we had a spare Sikorsky sitting around somewhere.. and they can move stuff regardless of local road problems... Drop it right down the reactor stack.. I thought I read somewhere that they were using fire trucks to pump the water... but I can't guarantee it.. Hard to believe that Japan has no access to Sikorsky SkyHook helicopters at the USA Base that can move a large generator with ease. Edited March 15, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Its not just the generators which I believe they said they have, the fact remains that they too need fuel and if I recall the other day they had problems ensuring the supply of this. Anyways, I think we are beyond pumps and generators sadly. Fuel can fly also. It appears that water flow is the ONLY thing left to save the day. So flying in as many generators and fuel as possible seems prudent. And makes me wonder who there are no helicopters visible in any shots of this nuke site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 New Russian web site regarding 'radiation development' just appeared. http://meteorf.ru/default_doc.aspx?RgmFolderID=a4e36ec1-c49d-461c-8b4f-167d20cb27d8&RgmDocID=9c8e6d31-5eef-46b9-a09b-ff207213f586 Pay attention to pic.5 . Status of nuclear plume on March 17-18. Can you provide some additional onm this photo-on my mobile and resolution is poor- cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 And makes me wonder who there are no helicopters visible in any shots of this nuke site. My understanding it is a no fly zone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 James, do you mean this image from the Russian site you linked??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 No Tywais, the govt's no fly zone today specifically excluded rescue and govt. type operations. And makes me wonder who there are no helicopters visible in any shots of this nuke site. My understanding it is a no fly zone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 No Tywais, the govt's no fly zone today specifically excluded rescue and govt. type operations. Thanks for the clarification. Believe I'm experiencing information overload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) James, your Russian deal appears to be the following, based on Google translate.. I can't translate the image you mention because it's there as a graphic...not as web text. --------------------------------------------- MINISTRY OF NATURAL RESOURCES AND ECOLOGY OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION Federal Service for Hydrometeorology and Environmental Monitoring Scientific and Production Association "TYPHOON" FEDERAL AND ANALYSIS CENTER ROSHYDROMET (FIATS Rosgidromet) 15/03/2011, 08:30 Help on the implications for the Russian Federation of the accident at the NPP "Fukushima-1" and "Fukushima-2" in Japan According to the Commission for Nuclear Safety in Japan on the second power plant Fukushima-1, an explosion occurred in MSK 15/03/2011 00:10 According to reports, the Commission in an explosion at a second power unit could be damaged system to reduce the pressure reactor. Damaged roof plant.Reuters news agency reports that the explosion of the reactor in a complex plant damaged the roof and knocked a hole through steam jet.Japanese power company Tokyo Electric Power (TEPCO) said that in connection with the blast, the second power plant, "Fukushima-1" evacuated some staff, but 50 people remain in the workplace.At the reactor plant, "Fukushima-1" at 11:53 local time (5:53 MSK) there was an explosion of hydrogen transfer Kyodo news.According to TEPCO at 05:00 MSK in the area of the fourth reactor, the fire started.Due to a fire on the fourth unit spewed radiation of high concentration, said Prime Minister Naoto Kan in an emergency televised this morning. According to the operator of nuclear power plant near the third reactor plant radiation levels 400 times higher than the annual allowable standards.All residents in the area of 20 km from the plant must immediately evacuate all residents in the area from 20 to 30 km should be in the premises, said N. Khan. etc etc etc.. Edited March 15, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 James, your Russian deal appears to be the following, based on Google translate.. I can't translate the image you mention because it's there as a graphic...not as web text. --------------------------------------------- MINISTRY OF NATURAL RESOURCES AND ECOLOGY OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION Federal Service for Hydrometeorology and Environmental Monitoring Scientific and Production Association "TYPHOON" FEDERAL AND ANALYSIS CENTER ROSHYDROMET (FIATS Rosgidromet) 15/03/2011, 08:30 Help on the implications for the Russian Federation of the accident at the NPP "Fukushima-1" and "Fukushima-2" in Japan According to the Commission for Nuclear Safety in Japan on the second power plant Fukushima-1, an explosion occurred in MSK 15/03/2011 00:10 According to reports, the Commission in an explosion at a second power unit could be damaged system to reduce the pressure reactor. Damaged roof plant.Reuters news agency reports that the explosion of the reactor in a complex plant damaged the roof and knocked a hole through steam jet.Japanese power company Tokyo Electric Power (TEPCO) said that in connection with the blast, the second power plant, "Fukushima-1" evacuated some staff, but 50 people remain in the workplace.At the reactor plant, "Fukushima-1" at 11:53 local time (5:53 MSK) there was an explosion of hydrogen transfer Kyodo news.According to TEPCO at 05:00 MSK in the area of the fourth reactor, the fire started.Due to a fire on the fourth unit spewed radiation of high concentration, said Prime Minister Naoto Kan in an emergency televised this morning. According to the operator of nuclear power plant near the third reactor plant radiation levels 400 times higher than the annual allowable standards.All residents in the area of 20 km from the plant must immediately evacuate all residents in the area from 20 to 30 km should be in the premises, said N. Khan. etc etc etc.. cheers, looks like it will head north by that map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETatBKK Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Japan Meteorological Agency just announced the possibility of M7.0 after shock will be 40% till Mar 18, and 20% till Mar 21. till Mar 15 noon, they recorded 220 times M5.0 after shocks ! translated : www.asahi.com Mar 15, 2011 at 19.33h JST hope all this after shocks won't make any complication on rescuing the nuclear plant ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) Taiwan's EVA Airways cancels March flights to, from Japan TAIPEI, March 15, Kyodo News Taiwanese carrier EVA Airways said Tuesday it canceled dozens of March flights to and from Japan in the wake of Friday's earthquake and tsunami, as well as a daily flight to and from devastated Sendai until the end of June. In a company website posting updated at 5:50 p.m. Japan time, the company said flights to and from Sapporo on March 16, 17, 19, 20 and 21 have been canceled. Tokyo flights have also been canceled, with the service between Taipei's Songshan International Airport and Narita airport canceled from Tuesday until March 20, and the return leg canceled from March 16 until March 21. Flights between Taipei's Taoyuan International Airport and Tokyo's Haneda International Airport are canceled on March 16, 18, 20, 23, 25, 27 and 30. Flights to and from northeastern Sendai, which sustained heavy damage when the tsunami struck, have been canceled until June 30. Edited March 15, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 NHK reporting that, four days after the quake and tsunamis, some evacuation centers have yet to receive any food or water shipments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Japan Meteorological Agency just announced the possibility of M7.0 after shock will be 40% till Mar 18, and 20% till Mar 21. till Mar 15 noon, they recorded 220 times M5.0 after shocks ! translated : www.asahi.com Mar 15, 2011 at 19.33h JST hope all this after shocks won't make any complication on rescuing the nuclear plant ! beyond rescuing, the thing needs a billion billion tonnes of concrete and sand dumped on it immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) Japan's radioactive particles to blow to Pacific: S. Korea SEOUL, March 15, Kyodo News South Korea's Meteorological Administration on Tuesday released the results of a weather simulation which it said shows most of the radioactive particles from Japan's damaged nuclear power plant will drift toward the Pacific. The weather agency insisted that the results are entirely hypothetical, noting that it does not have concrete data with respect to the amount of radioactive vapor that escaped into the air, the timeframe and other details concerning the extent of damage to Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s No. 1 Fukushima nuclear power plant. The agency said it conducted the simulation using the latest weather data to find how the radioactive particles will spread in the next 24 hours, assuming that the leak occurred at 9 a.m. Tuesday Tokyo time. The simulation shows similar results whether the leak occurred at 3 p.m. or 9 a.m. Tuesday, the agency said. Edited March 15, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopperboy Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Unsafe at any dose After four decades of research, the former director of the Atomic Energy Commission's Biomedical Research Division of Livermore Laboratory concludes that there is no such thing as a safe dose of radiation. Although he was the first to prove it, he's not the only one. John W. Gofman, M.D., Ph.D., Professor Emeritus of Molecular and Cell Biology at the University of California at Berkeley is one of the most distinguished medical and nuclear scientists in the world. His research shows that no amount of radiation, no matter how tiny, is safe. Further, he has come to the shocking conclusion that exposure to radiation from medical procedures is a "highly important (probably principal) cause" of cancer and ischemic heart disease in America. http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2001/nov2001_report_radiation_01.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 “Why I am not worried about Japan’s nuclear reactors.” by Dr Josef Oehmen (modified by MIT) We will have to cover some fundamentals, before we get into what is going on. Construction of the Fukushima nuclear power plants The plants at Fukushima are Boiling Water Reactors (BWR for short). A BWR produces electricity by boiling water, and spinning a a turbine with that steam. The nuclear fuel heats water, the water boils and creates steam, the steam then drives turbines that create the electricity, and the steam is then cooled and condensed back to water, and the water returns to be heated by the nuclear fuel. The reactor operates at about 285 °C. More: http://mitnse.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/ -- MIT NSE Nuclear Information Hub 2011-03-13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I'm going to take a break... see ya'll a bit later... :jap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 “Why I am not worried about Japan’s nuclear reactors.” ... The above post on the blog of Nuclear Science and Engineering at MIT explains in great detail and in terms understandable by non-scientists what has been happening a Fukushima and what measures have been taken and why. Worth reading, even though it is quite long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 “Why I am not worried about Japan’s nuclear reactors.” ... The above post on the blog of Nuclear Science and Engineering at MIT explains in great detail and in terms understandable by non-scientists what has been happening a Fukushima and what measures have been taken and why. Worth reading, even though it is quite long. Thanks Maestro: Although I havent read this one I have been reading other experts playing down the severity of the situation on line with comparisons to radiation levels with x rays, two hours flights and so on. Let's just say I would feel a whole lot better if these experts would go stand on the front lines of the the disaster area while reporting why they are not worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWalkingMan Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Here is a live geiger counter in Tokyo http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-tokyo and another live geiger counter in Chiba (10km North East of Tokyo) http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-chiba Anyone know how to interpret the data? TheWalkingMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 If your micro popcorn pops just sitting on the kitchen counter, u know yr in trouble, :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphonso Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) Why have no back up generators or pumps with other power sources been dropped in by helicopter. No doubt there exist large trucks with generators the size of shipping containers. Multiples could be chained through regulators to provide enough power for most large jobs, why not here? Why are these resources not in evidence???? I think you may have underestimated the severity of the damage caused by the tsunami. http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/12/japan-nuclear-earthquake/ It seems that Fukushima design basis tsunami was 6.5 meters, but the actual tsunami was in the 7-8 meter range. These waves washed the diesel fuel system away, submerged the switchyard and destroyed most of the switchgear. This massive damage to the electrical system prevented rapid hookup of auxiliary diesel generators that were relatively quickly brought on site. So only the turbine driven battery controlled RCIC was available to inject water into the reactor vessel until AC power was restored to the HPCI. and http://www.greenaction-japan.org/modules/wordpress1/index.php?p=2 A problem occurred at 20:30 when the M/C (Main Switchboard) was submerged underwater. This prevented proper monitoring of pump operations and the reactor’s water levels. The situation had to be managed without proper information from the site. Idk how many senors/instruments are inoperative but IMHO I think the people there are doing the best they can under the circumstances. Perhaps even to the extent of making the ultimate sacrifice to try and avert more suffering and death elsewhere. Edited March 15, 2011 by Alphonso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crushdepth Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) “Why I am not worried about Japan’s nuclear reactors.” On a normal day it would all be good in theory, but several reactor containers have been subjected to fairly large explosions and one is known to be damaged. I wouldn't be too confident that the others are in pristine nick either. Edited March 15, 2011 by Crushdepth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 “Why I am not worried about Japan’s nuclear reactors.” On a normal day it would all be good in theory, but several reactor containers have been subjected to fairly large explosions and one is known to be damaged. I wouldn't be too confident that the others are in pristine nick either. . . . after already suffering an earthquake the magnitude of which was beyond their design limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) "Why I am not worried about Japan's nuclear reactors." ... The above post on the blog of Nuclear Science and Engineering at MIT explains in great detail and in terms understandable by non-scientists what has been happening a Fukushima and what measures have been taken and why. Worth reading, even though it is quite long. Yes a useful bit of info there. Didn't stop me worrying, but it did make more clear what may be happening. Edited March 15, 2011 by animatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETatBKK Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 these are discussion links about the Geiger counter and how to use. nothing related to this Fukushima Daiichi incident. Here is a live geiger counter in Tokyo http://www.ustream.t...r-counter-tokyo and another live geiger counter in Chiba (10km North East of Tokyo) http://www.ustream.t...r-counter-chiba Anyone know how to interpret the data? TheWalkingMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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