jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 There seems a bit of an inconsistency on this... Yesterday, the Japanese were not optimistic about the helicopter water dropping on the Reactor 4 pool, saying the explosion generated opening in the roof structure was many meters away from where the pool is located...meaning they didn't have direct open air access... Today, they're saying they spotted from the air yesterday that the Reactor 4 fuel pool still had water in it... I'm not sure how to reconcile those two... FLASH: Japan nuclear operator: As of Wednesday, spent-fuel pool at no.4 reactor still had water in it /via@Reuters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdietz Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 It may be just the wind direction, but I've noticed the two online Geiger Counters have been steadily dropping since yesterday, from 0.2 - 0.3μSv/h to 0.1 - 0.15μSv/h. Note however that at these low levels handheld meters are notoriously imprecise. The delta is real though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 A nuclear chain reaction is possible in theory but very unlikely in practice. Actually it's not. See my previous articles (3) on this. Why a nuclear reactor will never become a bomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Add to this from Kyodo News: Radiation level at 4.13 millisievert above Fukushima nuke plant Defense Minister Toshimi Kitazawa said Thursday he has given the go-ahead for Self-Defense Forces helicopters to drop water onto a troubled reactor at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant as the radiation level was 4.13 millisievert per hour at an altitude of 1,000 feet. The level comes to 87.7 millisievert at 300 feet, the minister also said. ---------------- Presumably the levels reported below are some kind of on the ground levels, probably at the plant's boundary. I'm not sure I caught this right...but I think NHK was just reporting about TEPCO data on radiation levels before and after the airdrops...not much difference... 3.78 millisieverts per hour before 3.75 millisieverts per hour after not clear on the exact timing or location of those readings... Edited March 17, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 FLASH: Japan nuclear operator -- Once auxiliary power is on at nuclear plant, priority will be getting sea water pumps working /RT @Reuters: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atsiii Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 There seems a bit of an inconsistency on this... Yesterday, the Japanese were not optimistic about the helicopter water dropping on the Reactor 4 pool, saying the explosion generated opening in the roof structure was many meters away from where the pool is located...meaning they didn't have direct open air access... Today, they're saying they spotted from the air yesterday that the Reactor 4 fuel pool still had water in it... I'm not sure how to reconcile those two... FLASH: Japan nuclear operator: As of Wednesday, spent-fuel pool at no.4 reactor still had water in it /via@Reuters It's possible that the pilot could see the pool due to the slant angle of observation, yet not be able to get overhead to drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 NHK reporting the water cannon spraying, apparently a single truck, on the reactor 3 should occur in the afternoon, followed by TEPCO work on trying to run a new electrical line.. Sounds like they're expecting the full 11 water cannon trucks to arrive in the evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 NHK reporting the water cannon spraying, apparently a single truck, on the reactor 3 should occur in the afternoon, followed by TEPCO work on trying to run a new electrical line.. Sounds like they're expecting the full 11 water cannon trucks to arrive in the evening. Why is everything happening so slowly? In an emergency like this, I would expect the trucks to be transported there by heavy lifter helis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) OK. so this is getting a bit complicated: Japan citizens -- 20 Km evacuation area, 20 to 30 Km stay indoors area U.S. citizens - 80 Km evacuate or stay indoors U.S. military - not doing relief operations within 90 Km of reactors... http://www3.nhk.or.j...lish/17_14.html Via Japan Times Online U.S. advises citizens in quake vicinity to evacuate LONDON/WASHINGTON (Kyodo) The U.S. Embassy in Japan has asked American citizens living within an 80-kilometer radius of the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant in Japan to evacuate as a precautionary measure. "We are recommending, as a precaution, that American citizens who live within 50 miles (80 kilometers) of the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant evacuate the area or to take shelter indoors if safe evacuation is not practical," the embassy said in the advice issued Thursday local time. Conditions such as weather and wind direction will affect the area of radioactive contamination in a complex way, the embassy said, adding that low-level radioactive materials can reach areas more than 80 km away from the damaged nuclear power plant. The Japanese government currently sets the evacuation zone covering areas within a 20-km radius of the plant and advises those within a 30-km radius to stay indoors. http://search.japant...20110317x2.html Edited March 17, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atsiii Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 NHK reporting the water cannon spraying, apparently a single truck, on the reactor 3 should occur in the afternoon, followed by TEPCO work on trying to run a new electrical line.. Sounds like they're expecting the full 11 water cannon trucks to arrive in the evening. Why is everything happening so slowly? In an emergency like this, I would expect the trucks to be transported there by heavy lifter helis I've been wondering the same thing... it doesn't seem like they've pulled out all the stops. A reported asked rhetorically yesterday--with thousand dead and a half million homeless--why there were not convoys of trucks heading north with blankets, food, water, etc. for all the victims--as was the case after the China earthquake. If they need access to the pools from above, why haven't they blown off the remaining roofs that are causing obstruction? Etc.? It seems like a "measured" response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) It sounds like they're being driven in... Sounds like the one truck onsite already may be the Tokyo police one, while it sounds like the 11 are JSDF fire trucks being driven in from various JSDF bases. NHK reporting the water cannon spraying, apparently a single truck, on the reactor 3 should occur in the afternoon, followed by TEPCO work on trying to run a new electrical line.. Sounds like they're expecting the full 11 water cannon trucks to arrive in the evening. Why is everything happening so slowly? In an emergency like this, I would expect the trucks to be transported there by heavy lifter helis Edited March 17, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) I've been wondering the same thing... it doesn't seem like they've pulled out all the stops. A reported asked rhetorically yesterday--with thousand dead and a half million homeless--why there were not convoys of trucks heading north with blankets, food, water, etc. for all the victims--as was the case after the China earthquake. If they need access to the pools from above, why haven't they blown off the remaining roofs that are causing obstruction? Etc.? It seems like a "measured" response. I'd concur about the seeming slowness of the relief efforts... The U.S. is hardly perfect in this area, considering the mess we made of the New Orleans Katrina aftermath relief efforts... But in most other major situations, the U.S. National Guard has done a pretty good job of mobilizing quickly and getting critical relief supplies into the field.. tents, medical supplies, water, ice, food rations... Someone earlier asked why not use a cannon to shoot the roof off the #4 reactor... I was think about that... what happens if they miss and aim low... Edited March 17, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianLS Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 A nuclear chain reaction is possible in theory but very unlikely in practice. Actually it's not. See my previous articles (3) on this. Why a nuclear reactor will never become a bomb I said that a "chain reaction" is possible (ie when one emitted neutron causes the decay of another). I didn't say it could turn into an A bomb.... Of course in theory the fuel rods CAN cause a chain reaction. That's exactly what they do in a (running) nuclear reactor..... in a controlled way. Whereas in an A bomb, the aim is to maximise the chain reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 U.S. advises citizens in quake vicinity to evacuate Add on this from Kyodo News In Tokyo, top government spokesman Yukio Edano expressed ''understanding'' over the advisory from its ally. Chief Cabinet Secretary Edano said he understands that the U.S. government made a ''more conservative'' decision from the standpoint of protecting its citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Japan says information on troubled nuke reactor to U.S. delayed TOKYO, March 17, Kyodo Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said Thursday there had been a delay in passing information to the United States regarding the troubled reactors of a nuclear plant in Fukushima Prefecture. ''There was a slight delay conveying to the U.S. side the information about whether or not there is water'' in the pool holding spent fuel rods, Edano told a news conference. His comment came in response to a senior U.S. nuclear official's remark that there was not much water in the pool, following the enormous earthquake that struck eastern and northeaster Japan last Friday. http://english.kyodo...1/03/78817.html Edited March 17, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I said that a "chain reaction" is possible (ie when one emitted neutron causes the decay of another). I didn't say it could turn into an A bomb.... Of course in theory the fuel rods CAN cause a chain reaction. That's exactly what they do in a (running) nuclear reactor..... in a controlled way. Whereas in an A bomb, the aim is to maximise the chain reaction. I just wanted to be sure we were clear on this, that's all. To further clarify, the reason the rods are "spent" as their ability to produce sufficient fission (reaction) has been reduced to the point they are no longer efficient lessening the ability for a chain reaction. This of course doesn't apply to the one reactor that has removed functional rods to the pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Rice Gone from Tokyo Area Supermarkets Tokyo, March 16 (Jiji Press)--Rice has sold out at supermarkets in the Tokyo metropolitan area due to the disruption of transportation networks in the Tohoku northeastern Japan region hit by the massive 9.0-magnitude earthquake Friday. Given the emergency situation, Ito-Yokado supermarkets, operated by Seven & i Holdings Co., held special sales events in the Tokyo metropolitan area Wednesday, and customers stood in long lines in front of the stores well ahead of their opening. "Now that school lunches have been suspended, I need more rice than usual," a housewife in her 40s from Tokyo's Koto Ward said. "But I couldn't buy it at any supermarket." The rice supply shortage comes at a time when a growing number of people are refraining from eating out due to confusion in train operations following Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s rotational blackouts, an observer said. The Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries asked rice producers and wholesale groups the same day to ship and sell the maximum amount of rice. http://jen.jiji.com/...k=2011031601213 Edited March 17, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Mr. Edano: US Emb in Tokyo recommended that Americans within 80 km radius of the plant evacuate as a precaution. /RT @JPN_PMO: (Cont) We believe they made a more conservative assessment of the radiation level from perspective of protecting US citizens. Mr. Edano: Japan Gov't has asked residents living btw 20 & 30 km from the plant to take shelter as a precaution. (Cont) No impact on human body at present even if u staying outside for 24 hrs. /RT @JPN_PMO: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Got a bad feeling about today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atsiii Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I've been wondering the same thing... it doesn't seem like they've pulled out all the stops. A reported asked rhetorically yesterday--with thousand dead and a half million homeless--why there were not convoys of trucks heading north with blankets, food, water, etc. for all the victims--as was the case after the China earthquake. If they need access to the pools from above, why haven't they blown off the remaining roofs that are causing obstruction? Etc.? It seems like a "measured" response. I'd concur about the seeming slowness of the relief efforts... The U.S. is hardly perfect in this area, considering the mess we made of the New Orleans Katrina aftermath relief efforts... But in most other major situations, the U.S. National Guard has done a pretty good job of mobilizing quickly and getting critical relief supplies into the field.. tents, medical supplies, water, ice, food rations... Someone earlier asked why not use a cannon to shoot the roof off the #4 reactor... I was think about that... what happens if they miss and aim low... Perhaps a CV47 sky hook (that could be jettisoned) to remove the remaining roof? But not to be overly cynical and pessimistic (which I am!), perhaps it's a measured response because they expect things to get much worse, and they're holding back reserves? Tepco and defense is saying they proceeded with the attempted water drops on #3's pool because "water must be gotten into the pool--today," insinuating that getting the rods submerged tomorrow would be too late? Does this mean the next 12 to 24 hours will tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology(MEXT)released radiation monitoring results. http://bit.ly/hlgFi2 /RT @JPN_PMO: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 From Reuters: Health experts said panic over radiation leaks from the Daiichi plant, around 240 km (150 miles) north of Tokyo, was diverting attention from other life-threatening risks confronting survivors of last Friday's 9.0 magnitude earthquake and tsunami, such as cold weather and access to fresh water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Reuters quoting TEPCO officials as saying radiation levels around the plant are unchanged after the helicopter water drops. 1:45 pm Japan time / 11:45 am Thai time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atsiii Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 After being consumed by the nuclear crisis, I just looked at the weather. With 500,000 homeless and/or in evac centers, many with no protection from the elements and little or no food/water, most of the disaster zone is below freezing today (-4C in Sendai) with snow and rain this morning and WNW winds. Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Haaaa!!!!!!!!!! Thai resident folks know about this.. Good reminder of reason to get reentry permits in advance... You never know... Large number of foreign residents seeks re-entry permits TOKYO, March 17, Kyodo A large number of foreign residents in Japan rushed to the Justice Ministry's Tokyo Immigration Bureau from early Thursday to seek re-entry permits before leaving the earthquake-hit country temporarily. More than 2,500 foreign residents formed a long queue in and outside the immigration office in Tokyo as of noon, apparently due to fears over a possible nuclear disaster involving the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant. The bureau said it received requests for re-entry permits from some 10,000 foreign residents Wednesday and that the figure on Thursday could exceed it. It would issue the permission to those who came to the office by 4 p.m. A 45-year-old Jordanian national said the Japanese government should issue the re-entry permit at airports in such an emergency situation. Foreign residents are required to obtain re-entry permits in advance if they plan to re-visit the country. http://english.kyodo...1/03/78833.html Edited March 17, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crushdepth Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Donations for Japan emergency relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atsiii Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 From Reuters: Health experts said panic over radiation leaks from the Daiichi plant, around 240 km (150 miles) north of Tokyo, was diverting attention from other life-threatening risks confronting survivors of last Friday's 9.0 magnitude earthquake and tsunami, such as cold weather and access to fresh water. Thanks, JF. I was just looking at the weather while you were posting this. Awful conditions... even if you are an S&R grunt with state-of-the-art equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Excerpt of AP report: The storage pools need a constant source of cooling water. Even when removed from reactors, the rods retain radioactivity and must be cooled for months, possibly longer, to prevent them from posing a threat of meltdown. Japanese officials raised hopes of easing the crisis earlier Thursday, saying that they may be close to bringing power back to the plant and restoring the reactors' cooling systems. The new power line would revive electric-powered pumps, allowing the company to control the rising temperatures and pressure that have led to at least partial meltdowns in three reactors. The company is also trying to repair its existing disabled power line. Tokyo Electric Power spokesman Naoki Tsunoda said the new power line to the plant is almost finished and that officials plan to try it "as soon as possible," but he could not say exactly when. MORE: http://staging.hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_JAPAN_EARTHQUAKE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-03-17-00-46-48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Add from AP: The threat of nuclear disaster only added to Japanese misery and frustration. "The anxiety and anger being felt by people in Fukushima have reached a boiling point," the governor of Fukushima prefecture, Yuhei Sato, fumed in an interview with the Japanese television network NHK. He said evacuation preparations were inadequate, saying centers lacked enough hot meals and basic necessities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahmburgers Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I agree, a massive airlift and trucking/shipping of relief supplies should have been implement a.s.a.p. There must be a lot of miserable people in that region. cold, hungry, thirsty, wet, .....not to mention scores of wounded. Come on Japanese big shots, get off your high horses and do the right thing for your people. And donate the stuff, don't sell it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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