jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 In reviewing TEPCO's latest public status report on the Daiichi reactors dated as of 10 pm yesterday... It indicates they've been performing sea water injection on Reactors 1, 2 and 3... No mention of sea water being used in Reactor 4, which had been shut down for maintenance back in November, but still has 500+ fuel rods in its roof area cooling pool. That means, in practical terms, Reactors 1-3 will never operate again, regardless of the outcome of current efforts. http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031609-e.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdietz Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 There is currently no fuel inside reactor #4, as it was moved to the storage pool for maintenance some time before the quake. So no need to add water or anything to that reactor, it's inert. The storage pool though has next to the old fuel, a full set of reasonable 'fresh' fuel as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopperboy Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 It's interesting that the discussion seems to be turning toward the cooling pools, as opposed to the reactors themselves... I have read some reports the past day or so, that talk about the issue of the risk in the reactors themselves lessening the more time passes since they were shut down.. In other words, the fission activity and heat should be naturally, slowly lessening with time... even in the absence of adequate cooling. The uncooled cooling pools, however, where the nuclear fuel rods are kept in proximity to each other, appears to be a different issue. Comments? The reactors would need about 5 Mega Watts of cooling a few minutes after shut down and still require 1.66 Mega Watts after one year. But if control is lost i.e. a meltdown then the cooling requirements could be much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Here's an excerpt of NISA's status report on the Daiichi plants as of yesterday... The most notable info I can discern is the levels on how far the fuel rods in Reactors 1-3 are relative to reactor water levels. It appears to show the fuel rods are exposed by 1.5 to 2 meters in each of the reactors.... The fuel rods are about 4 meters long supposedly. And the chart appears to be showing negative values for water coverage. http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/files/en20110317-1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Australia worried about 'breakdown of essential services' in Tokyo SYDNEY, March 17, Kyodo Australian Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd said Thursday that Australians are currently being advised to leave Tokyo and vicinity because of the ''breakdown of essential services,'' not because of worries over radiation. ''There are problems in terms of electricity, power supply, as well as a whole range of other things as well. Schools being closed...trains not functioning properly,'' Rudd said in an interview on Nine Network's TODAY Show. ''And because of these pressures on public infrastructure, we are recommending that Australians should consider departing,'' he said. The Australian advisory, issued Wednesday, also cites continuing strong aftershocks, including in Tokyo and vicinity. MORE: http://english.kyodo...1/03/78836.html Edited March 17, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 You know, NHK World has been a great resource for those of us interested in this issue... But... a lot of the time...and also overnight...they're simply running pre-recorded reruns and such... Anyone have an English language TV or radio resource from NHK (or other Japanese news source) that's going to be more current and up to date.... NHK operates a variety of TV and radio networks... I'm assuming some of them are more "live" throughout more of the day than NHK World's English TV feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crushdepth Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 It's amazing how out of date CNN and BBC news are. Their headline stories are nearly a day behind. Lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Just to make you feel better: Banana equivalent dose From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search A banana equivalent dose (BED) is a concept[1][2] to place in scale the dangers of radiation by comparing exposures to the radiation generated by a common banana. Radioactivity is measured in disintegrations per second (dps), in Curie (Ci), or in Becqurel (Bq). Radiation dose equivalant is measured in Roentgen equivalent man (rem) or in Sievert (Sv). Many foods are naturally radioactive, and bananas are particularly so, due to the radioactive potassium-40, or 40K they contain. Bananas are radioactive enough to regularly cause false alarms on radiation sensors used to detect possible illegal smuggling of nuclear material at US ports.[3] A medium sized banana contains about 450 g of Posassium. 0.0117%, or about 53 mg of this being 40K. 53 mg of 40K produces 14 radioactive decays per second (dps), or 0.00037 μCi of radiation. If the banana is eaten, the dose equivalent is about 0.01 mrem.[1] 0.01 mrem is equivalent to 0.1 mSv.[4] A radiation dose equivalent of 100 μSv (10 mrem, or 1,000 BEDs) increases your risk of death by about one Micromort -- the same risk as eating 40 tablespoons of peanut butter, or of smoking 1.4 cigarettes.[5] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 NHK just reporting, govt. decides no further airborne water dropping today, due to little impact on radiation levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdietz Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 NHK World: Also, the water in the storage pools of reactors #5 and #6 isn't circulating and the pools are heating up about 5 degrees C per day. Right now the temperature is around 60 degrees C, so within about 8 days it will reach 100C and start boiling off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopperboy Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 So far, what I learned about early NPP designs is rather unimpressive if considering the redundancy (or lack thereof) of critical systems. In fighter airplanes, many critical circuits are not duplicated to prevent failure, they are triplicated! And an airplane crash only kills the pilot(s) plus maybe some people on the ground, not millions lives at stake as in an NPP. I am a bit disappointed and alarmed that there are not more emergency systems at the technicians' disposal. I am not impressed by the system engineering. In the UK nuclear power station control rooms do have triplicate power supplies all emergency backed. But I don't know if that extends to all the other systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Check out the link to see the chart - I tried to post it in here but the formatting was lost... http://slog.thestran...-extremely-high We believe that radiation levels are extremely high" Posted by Jonathan Golob on Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 10:42 PM From the chairman of the US Nuclear Regulatory Agency: The Congressional testimony by Gregory Jaczko, the chairman of the commission, was the first time the Obama administration had given its own assessment of the condition of the plant, apparently mixing information it had received from Japan with data it had collected independently. Mr. Jaczko's most startling assertion was that there was now little or no water in the pool storing spent nuclear fuel at the No. 4 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station, leaving fuel rods stored there exposed and bleeding radiation into the atmosphere. As a result, he said, "We believe that radiation levels are extremely high, which could possibly impact the ability to take corrective measures." Well, what constitutes 'extremely high' radiation levels? I've cobbled together (from various sources) the radiation levels present around the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster. These readings span a few days, and are likely to be varying over time. In other words, this is a very imperfect sense of what's going on—but real data that we can chew on (and use to digest empty superlatives like 'extremely'). The levels of radiation have a huge range—reflecting a logarithmic decrease in radiation levels as one gains distance from the sources of gamma radiation at the plant. Micro-sieverts aren't a particularly intuitive unit of measure. So, what I've done next is use a table of radiation doses, and their known health effects to help us make practical sense of what these numbers mean. I am only considering here the acute effects of radiation exposure, not the long-term concequences (like increased cancer risk). Nor am I considering the unique biological effects of some of the released isotopes (like radioactive Iodine). I am only considering here the health effects of the high energy (gamma and x-ray) radiation being emitted from the plant. So, when the NRC chairman says 'impact the ability to take corrective measures', this is what he means. For the (Japanese Self Defense Forces) helicopter pilots now dropping water onto the reactors, this is a deadly mission—and potentially futile. Again, the pilots and the Fukushima Fifty—deserve our deepest respect. Edited March 17, 2011 by bkkjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) In case anyone's losing track...tomorrow is one week out from the quake and tsunamis.... Also, NHK now saying the morning's 3 to 4 millisievert radiation readings were taken at a site about 100 meters from the Reactor #3. Edited March 17, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 U.S. to fly spy plane over Fukushima nuclear plant for closer look TOKYO, March 17, Kyodo The U.S. military will operate a Global Hawk unmanned high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft over a stricken nuclear power plant in Fukushima Prefecture, possibly on Thursday, to take a closer look at its troubled reactors, a Japanese government source said Wednesday. Photographs taken by the plane equipped with infrared sensors could provide a useful clue to what is occurring inside the reactor buildings, around which high-level radiation has been detected. http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78680.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atsiii Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 So, when the NRC chairman says 'impact the ability to take corrective measures', this is what he means. For the (Japanese Self Defense Forces) helicopter pilots now dropping water onto the reactors, this is a deadly mission—and potentially futile. Again, the pilots and the Fukushima Fifty—deserve our deepest respect. I agree! Regardless of whether bad decisions and/or information have been made or given, the feet-on-the-ground are doing a heroic job. I can only hope and pray for their success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) ALERT: US Surgeon General Warns "Be prepared for harmful radiation from Japan" Almost immediately after learning that the UN has released an official forecast of the radioactive plume from Japan's nuclear reactor hitting the US west coast within the next 2 days I came across the article below on Before It's News. I first thought it must be some sensationlist article because all other stories about the forecast clearly state that the radiation forecast will be dilute and unharmful. So I checked the source and it's legit. Just pressed on the UK newspaper, the Daily Mail. This is scary stuff that is apparently being filtered from US mainstream media. http://blog.alexande...ion-japan-8780/ Edit to add, the quotes above come from the blogger himself in case you were wondering.. Edited March 17, 2011 by bkkjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 NHK begins showing video of JSDF heavy lift helicopters delivering blankets and other supplies to evacuation centers in the northeast... Reporter says those operations, at least to his location, began today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 John and others from the US might find this interesting ...and wish to join? How to Access RadNet Data RadNet near-real-time data can be viewed on EPA’s Central Data Exchange (CDX) website at http://www.epa.gov/cdx. Radiation emergency response experts can request access to a restricted RadNet data site, where all RadNet data is housed before being released for public access. As we develop a unified federal web and transparency system, additional data summaries and characterizations will be developed for wider communication and access. The classification of the data requires the user to create a username and password before accessing the site. Instructions for accessing the RadNet CDX website: Go to www.epa.gov/cdx On the left side select “Login” On the new left side select “registration” Select “continue” Select “I accept” Enter your information including a password When given the list of access programs, select Radiation Network (RadNet) There is one more required field that pops up and enter N/A into that After an option to select more programs, you will be taken to the RadNet page. RadNet filter data gets posted quarterly to Envirofacts for public access: http://www.epa.gov/enviro/facts/topicsearch.html#radiation. EPA is currently examining ways to enhance the accessibility and characterization of the data. http://www.epa.gov/narel/radnet/other.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) ALERT: US Surgeon General Warns "Be prepared for harmful radiation from Japan" Surgeon general clarifies position on potassium iodide as protection against nuclear radiation Los Angeles Times March 16, 2011 | 12:08 pm A spokeswoman for the U.S. surgeon general has clarified her position on whether people should stock up on potassium iodide as protection against nuclear radiation from Japan. Potassium iodide, or KI, can prevent the thyroid from absorbing radioactive iodine, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. During a visit Tuesday to California, U.S. Surgeon General Regina Benjamin appeared to contradict the message from other public health officials that the pills are unnecessary and may have harmful side effects. "It's a precaution," Benjamin told a Bay Area NBC reporter during a tour of a local hospital. MORE: http://latimesblogs....on-general.html Edited March 17, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atsiii Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 There seems to be a lot of focus on, discussion of and argument over radiation levels. For me, the radiation readings are of interest only to the extent that they may give some advanced indication that a bad situation is headed south. The ongoing battle is to avoid a catastrophic release of radioactive material into the environment. If the battle is won, then people can (and will) argue about whether heath-affecting radiation was released during the fight, whether experts overreacted or underestimated, and/or whether nuclear power can be justified or not. But if the battle is ultimately lost, IMO, all these arguments over levels and bananas and whether or not there is actually a plume--will be mute. So... I'm pulling for the Japanese... the "Fukushima Fifty" (thanks James)... or the 180, or however many there are. I can't help wonder how many of these guys have been at it essentially nonstop for six days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 NHK reporting on Thailand fundrasing efforts for the Japan quake and tsunami, including a fundraising concert in Bangkok last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Yes, amazing how the hopes of the nation and the world at large are with 50 (generally older) brave guys. With all of the technology in the world today its coming down to retirement aged guys with hoses.... anyways found a live feed to the plant... http://producermatthew.com/live2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) James, I'm looking at the NBC Bay Area report that the blog you mentioned cited... I see the part about potasium pills, but nothing about the Surgeon General warning about health effects from the radioactive plume... The report also appears to be from Tuesday, which would have been before the news about the U.N. plume projections was public. Surgeon General: Buying Iodide a "Precaution" Conflicting messages appear in the effort to buy iodide tablets Updated 6:17 PM PDT, Tue, Mar 15, 2011 The fear that a nuclear cloud could float from the shores of Japan to the shores of California has some people making a run on iodine tablets. Pharmacists across California report being flooded with requests. State and county officials spent much of Tuesday trying to keep people calm by saying that getting the pills wasn't necessary, but then the United States surgeon general supported the idea as a worthy "precaution." U.S. Surgeon General Regina Benjamin was in the Bay Area touring a peninsula hospital. NBC Bay Area reporter Damian Trujillo asked her about the run on tablets and Dr. Benjamin said although she wasn't aware of people stocking up, she did not think that would be an overreaction. She said it was right to be prepared. On the other side of the issue is Kelly Huston of the California Emergency Management Agency. Huston said state officials, along with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the California Energy Commission, were monitoring the situation and said people don't need to buy the pills. http://www.nbcbayare...-118031559.html Edited March 17, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 James, I'm looking at the NBC Bay Area report that the blog you mentioned cited... I see the part about potasium pills, but nothing about the Surgeon General warning about health effects from the radioactive plume... The report also appears to be from Tuesday, which would have been before the news about the U.N. plume projections was public. Surgeon General: Buying Iodide a "Precaution" Conflicting messages appear in the effort to buy iodide tablets Updated 6:17 PM PDT, Tue, Mar 15, 2011 The fear that a nuclear cloud could float from the shores of Japan to the shores of California has some people making a run on iodine tablets. Pharmacists across California report being flooded with requests. State and county officials spent much of Tuesday trying to keep people calm by saying that getting the pills wasn't necessary, but then the United States surgeon general supported the idea as a worthy "precaution." U.S. Surgeon General Regina Benjamin was in the Bay Area touring a peninsula hospital. NBC Bay Area reporter Damian Trujillo asked her about the run on tablets and Dr. Benjamin said although she wasn't aware of people stocking up, she did not think that would be an overreaction. She said it was right to be prepared. On the other side of the issue is Kelly Huston of the California Emergency Management Agency. Huston said state officials, along with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the California Energy Commission, were monitoring the situation and said people don't need to buy the pills. http://www.nbcbayare...-118031559.html could very well be John: if so please ignore it - so much info coming across the wires / tweets, alot of BS with it no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I agree, a massive airlift and trucking/shipping of relief supplies should have been implement a.s.a.p. There must be a lot of miserable people in that region. cold, hungry, thirsty, wet, .....not to mention scores of wounded. Come on Japanese big shots, get off your high horses and do the right thing for your people. And donate the stuff, don't sell it!!! You may well find that the Japanese are treating this tsunami as the disaster that it is, and that they are as well-prepared as anyone anywhere, and that their planes are being implemented with stoic and inscrutable efficiency. However, this thread is specifically focusing on only one small part of the overall catastrophe. SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Yes, amazing how the hopes of the nation and the world at large are with 50 (generally older) brave guys. With all of the technology in the world today its coming down to retirement aged guys with hoses.... anyways found a live feed to the plant... http://producermatthew.com/live2 I am assuming this is number 3 reactor we are looking at that is destroyed and smoking? Notice that the other building to the left of it 4? has some white smoke coming out of its intact roof??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'm posting this especially for James... A very nice L.A. Times graphic on the impact of different kinds of radiation exposure. Note the reading in the upper right column, 80,000 microsievert per year (80 milli-sieverts) from smoking a pack a day of ciggies for a year... You get radiation exposure from smoking ciggies??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'm posting this especially for James... A very nice L.A. Times graphic on the impact of different kinds of radiation exposure. Note the reading in the upper right column, 80,000 microsievert per year (80 milli-sieverts) from smoking a pack a day of ciggies for a year... You get radiation exposure from smoking ciggies??? that's why I gave up that filthy disgusting habit almost a month ago (havent felt so terrible in my life btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Nice thought, but I'm seeing no sign of that, SC, in monitoring Japanese media... There are widespread reports of their evacuation centers and medical facilities lacking in even the most basic supplies...even now almost a week after the quake and tsunami... NHK today reporting authorities in part blaming fuel shortages for their problems in delivering supplies. Earlier today, the report of 14 senior citizens dying, 12 of them at one evac center and two others en route. You may well find that the Japanese are treating this tsunami as the disaster that it is, and that they are as well-prepared as anyone anywhere, and that their planes are being implemented with stoic and inscrutable efficiency. However, this thread is specifically focusing on only one small part of the overall catastrophe. SC Edited March 17, 2011 by jfchandler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fookhaht Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) anyways found a live feed to the plant... http://producermatthew.com/live2 Thanks. About as comforting as watching a live volcano between eruptions, as I did with Mt. St. Helens in 1980. Edited March 17, 2011 by Fookhaht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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