What Level Of Speaking And Writing Thai Are You At?

[somtamguy]

So when is anyone actually going to share an audio clip/video clip of their level in Thai? We are all well aware that foreigners who learn Thai language tend to overestimate their level of Thai by a long shot.

Edited March 5, 2021 by somtamguy

[fondue zoo]

On 2/28/2021 at 5:37 PM, BritManToo said:

It's easy to explain, nobody wants you to speak or understand Thai.

The locals will pretend they don't understand no matter how good your Thai language skills are, and they will speak a village variant to discourage your learning. 

There is some truth to this.

I'm not fluent by any means but I can ask certain everyday questions correctly and even with the Thai "lilt". My immediate Thai family understand me as does my partner.

On the street however 8 out of 10 people look at me as if I'm speaking Swahili.  I ask my wife afterwards did I muff it and she says "no.. they pretend they don't understand."

 

 

[EricTh]

3 hours ago, somtamguy said:

So when is anyone actually going to share an audio clip/video clip of their level in Thai? We are all well aware that foreigners who learn Thai language tend to overestimate their level of Thai by a long shot.

 

Actually, there are roughly six levels in learning any language.

 

 

A1 (Beginner) - You can manage simple words and very simple sentence like 'Where are you from', 'what is your name', 'I like to eat fish', 'Have you eaten yet', 'telling time' etc. This is what beginner Thai teach.

 

A2 (Basic) - You can manage more complicated sentences like 'because', 'if', 'whenever' that join two sentences.

 

B1 (Lower intermediate) - You can manage multiple sentences in a short paragraph without knowing technical terms and only knowing common words. At this level , some grammar mistakes are allowed. Flow of conversation is more natural and smoother.

 

B2 (Upper intermediate) - You can manage several paragraphs in a single breath without knowing technical terms. At this level, he shouldn't have any grammar mistakes.

 

Most foreigners I have seen can only manage A1 or A2 level. They tend to use English grammar instead of real Thai grammar.

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by EricTh

[nrasmussen]

20 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Ah, but you are not EricTh!  do you agree with him that teaching is too formal?

I learnt that  คุณ meant "you" so when a chap who I thought a tout called out to me once  "You, you" I thought "rude <deleted>" ! Now I use คุณครับ more or less in the same way as I use "I say".  
 

 

I cannot comment on teaching as I'm self-taught.

 

Regarding "You, you!", which I think is quite commonly used when a Thai tries to get a foreigner's attention, I personally also found it rather rude at first, until I realised that it wasn't meant that way. I once discussed this with a Thai friend who worked as a hotel receptionist and advised him that if he wanted to make sure that he didn't offend his guests, he should use "Sir!" or "Ma'am!" and never "You, you!".

 

As for getting a Thai's attention I usually also use คุณครับ, or if it's a waiter or a shop employee just น้อง.

[tgeezer]

4 hours ago, somtamguy said:

So when is anyone actually going to share an audio clip/video clip of their level in Thai? We are all well aware that foreigners who learn Thai language tend to overestimate their level of Thai by a long shot.

That is a great idea I wonder how it is done when limited to iPad and iPhone.  

[somtamguy]

21 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

That is a great idea I wonder how it is done when limited to iPad and iPhone.  

In the reply section there will be a button to click “add files” and it will allow you to take a video of yourself speaking Thai or reading something in Thai out aloud

Edited March 5, 2021 by somtamguy

[tgeezer]

15 hours ago, EricTh said:

LOL. I've used it so many times in the past, and they never reply using 'Khun'. 

 

There are many other more common ways for 'you' that are not taught in Learn Thai schools. This is just one tiny example, there are lots of other examples.

 

This goes to show your lack of interaction with ordinary Thai people especially in the rural area.

 

 

 

 

I have very little interaction with "ordinary Thai people" in the rural area it is true, I am "all ears" or eyes until we start the sound bites, but I don't see examples. 
I came late to this discussion and and have now seen the clip that you posted. I understood in spite of missing very much of the dialogue and being incapable of repeating it. 
You could not have missed that in the opening clip the restaurant owner said คุณครับ to the woman, exactly as a nrasmussan said. 
My Facetime friend said that every body uses คุณ except in a slum, he lives in Bangkok but does get out and about in rural areas! 

[vogie]

I can do quite well untill I come across Thai tones then it's 'oh no' the old hearing is none too good, so that doesn't help.

I thought I would make a thai green curry the other night, found the ingrediants and wrote them all down in Thai, and English sounding Thai. Went down to the market and had a really good laugh, my wife had pointed out to me later that one of the vegetables I was asking for was 'eyelash', I try.????

[somtamguy]

Any of the guys in here who can read Thai want to record a clip of themselves reading this news article for us to hear? https://voicetv.co.th/read/MwHxEUshZ
 

'ศรีสุวรรณ' ชี้โทษ 'แอมมี่ เดอะบอตทอมบลูส์' ขั้นต่ำจำคุก 23 ปี สูงสุดประหารชีวิต ระบุเป็นเรื่องปกติที่ศาลจะไม่ให้ประกันตัว เนื่องจากมีอัตราโทษค่อนข้างสูง

ศรีสุวรรณ จรรยา เลขาธิการสมาคมองค์การพิทักษ์รัฐธรรมนูญไทย เปิดเผยว่า กรณี ศาลอาญา อนุมัติออกหมายจับ ไชยอมร แก้ววิบูลย์พันธุ์ หรือ 'แอมมี่ เดอะบอตทอมบลูส์' นักร้องชื่อดังและแนวร่วมกลุ่มราษฎร ในข้อหากระทำความผิดตามมาตรา 112, วางเพลิงเผาทรัพย์ผู้อื่น และ ความผิดตาม พ.ร.บ.คอมพิวเตอร์ และต่อมาเจ้าหน้าที่ตำรวจสามารถจับกุมตัว 'แอมมี่' ได้ ใกล้โรงพยาบาลแห่งหนึ่ง ในจังหวัดอยุธยา ล่าสุด เจ้าตัวได้โพสต์ข้อความสารภาพว่าเป็นผู้วางเพลิงจริง ตามที่ได้เสนอข่าวไปแล้วนั้น

ทั้งนี้ การกระทำของแอมมี่ถือว่าเป็นกรรมหนัก เข้าข่ายความผิดหลายข้อหา หลายฐานความผิดด้วยกัน เช่น ความผิดตาม ป,อ.มาตรา 112 “การหมิ่นประมาท ดูหมิ่น หรือแสดงความอาฆาตมาดร้ายพระมหากษัตริย์” มีอัตราโทษจำคุก 3 ปีถึง 15 ปี ความผิดตาม ป.อ.มาตรา 218 “การวางเพลิงเผาทรัพย์” มีอัตราโทษจำคุกตั้งแต่ 5 ปีถึง 20 ปี หรือจำคุกตลอดชีวิต หรือประหารชีวิต ความผิดตาม ป.อ.มาตรา 360 “การทำลายทรัพย์สาธารณะ” มีอัตราโทษ จำคุกไม่เกิน 5 ปี ปรับไม่เกิน 1 หมื่นบาทหรือทั้งจำทั้งปรับ ความผิดตาม ป.อ.มาตรา 365 “การบุกรุกสถานที่ราชการในเวลากลางคืน” มีอัตราโทษ จำคุกไม่เกิน 5 ปี ปรับไม่เกิน 1 หมื่นบาท หรือทั้งจำทั้งปรับ

นอกจากนั้น การนำภาพที่ก่อเหตุมาโพสต์ในเฟซบุ๊กส่วนตัวก็ยังเข้าข่ายความผิดตาม พ.ร.บ.ความผิดเกี่ยวกับคอมพิวเตอร์ 2550 แก้ไขเพิ่มเติม 2560 ม.14(3) มีอัตราโทษจำคุกไม่เกิน 5 ปี ปรับไม่เกิน 1 แสนบาท หรือทั้งจำทั้งปรับ เนื่องจากเป็นความผิดที่เกี่ยวกับความมั่นคงด้วยนั่นเอง รวมๆ อัตราโทษทั้งหมดทุกกระทงแล้วก็ไม่น่าจะต่ำกว่า 23 ปี สูงสุดก็ประหารชีวิต

ศรีสุวรรณ ระบุว่า ดังนั้น จึงเป็นเรื่องปกติที่ศาลจะไม่ให้ประกันตัวแอมมี่ เนื่องจากมีอัตราโทษค่อนข้างสูง และมีพฤติการณ์ที่อาจหลบหนีได้ ส่วนพวกลิ่วล้อทั้งหลาย ไม่ต้องฟูมฟายเอากรณีดังกล่าวไปเปรียบเทียบกับกรณีอื่นๆ เพื่อหาเรื่องตำหนิกระบวนการยุติธรรม ว่าทำไมศาลจึงไม่ให้ประกันตัวออกมาสู้คดีเหมือนกรณีอื่นๆ เพราะกรณีมันต่างกัน อัตราโทษมันสูง ใครจะกล้าเสี่ยงให้ปล่อยออกมาได้ พวกสามนิ้ว พวกอีแอบทั้งหลาย จงใช้กรณีเยี่ยงนี้เป็นบทเรียนว่า กฎหมายต้องเป็นกฎหมาย เมื่อทำผิดแล้วต้องเข้าคุกทุกราย อย่าปากกล้าขาสั่น เมื่อกล้าทำผิดก็ต้องกล้าที่จะรับโทษทัณฑ์

 

[tgeezer]

My goodness, you picked one hell of a piece of ครับ here! 
It is not possible for me to read that because I can't get started the words are so unfamiliar. 

[tgeezer]

5 hours ago, somtamguy said:

So when is anyone actually going to share an audio clip/video clip of their level in Thai? We are all well aware that foreigners who learn Thai language tend to overestimate their level of Thai by a long shot.

That is a great idea I wonder how it is done when limited to iPad and iPhone.  

[tgeezer]

That's a hellofafright first thing in the morning! Sorry about that but I thought it worth a go, น่าตื่นเต็น

[EricTh]

5 hours ago, tgeezer said:

I have very little interaction with "ordinary Thai people" in the rural area it is true, I am "all ears" or eyes until we start the sound bites, but I don't see examples. 
I came late to this discussion and and have now seen the clip that you posted. I understood in spite of missing very much of the dialogue and being incapable of repeating it. 
You could not have missed that in the opening clip the restaurant owner said คุณครับ to the woman, exactly as a nrasmussan said. 
My Facetime friend said that every body uses คุณ except in a slum, he lives in Bangkok but does get out and about in rural areas! 

 

 

If you really understood. Please translate the 7 minutes video for us , sentence by sentence.

 

 

 

[tgeezer]

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

 

If you really understood. Please translate the 7 minutes video for us , sentence by sentence.

 

 

 

Don't be silly, I can't remember any of it now and I am certainly not going back to examine it in detail, neither am I about to try to prove that I know more than others. ผมไม่ใช่ทำนำ้เต็มแก้ว Also I don't translate because I haven't learnt equivalent English words.  

 

มีผู้หญิงที่ลานจอดรถอยู่หน้าร้านอาหาร โทรคุยกับคุณแม่ หลังจากคุยจบแล้วเขาใช้กระดาษทิชูเช็ดจนูกแล้วทิ้งเป็นขยะ ผู้ชายเห็นว่าเขาทำผิดโดยทิ้งขยะที่บริเวณร้านอาหารอย่างนั้น แล้วว่าผู้หญิงคนนั้น .... 

I didn't pick up what she said to mother, she was probably there to apply for a job, but that is just a guess. I will go back and look again   meanwhile if you would kindly correct my interpretation thus far
Bear in mind I come by my ignorance honestly, I am not expected to be able to speak Thai and I am not embarrassed by mistakes in the written or spoken word. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by tgeezer

[jackdd]

17 hours ago, somtamguy said:

Any of the guys in here who can read Thai want to record a clip of themselves reading this news article for us to hear? https://voicetv.co.th/read/MwHxEUshZ

Why don't you go ahead, since you picked an article? Then others might follow.

 

11 hours ago, EricTh said:

If you really understood. Please translate the 7 minutes video for us , sentence by sentence.

You obviously understand it, so please translate it for us, sentence by sentence, so we know if we understood it right.

[tgeezer]

I posted a vid, not very much because I was just testing. I even wrote a little bit of Thai and invited comment both totally ignored! I wonder why anybody is on this forum.
People do realize that the clip is from a soap opera don't they? In real life people do not react in the same way as do actors, we often don't know what to say until encounters of the sort shown are long over, actors are following a script.  Then there is the story, which if people have not been following, makes translation more difficult.  Conversational Thai is full of little sounds which can not be translated so trying to transcribe "sentence by sentence word for word" is a path to frustration and teaches very slowly. 
Sometimes the end of a piece is more telling than the beginning. When the girl pretends to phone the person whom she is there to meet "ตีด" and he turns out to be the chap she has been calling a waiter, you should realise that she is on a blind date,  นัดบอด . I missed that, my friend explained it later but when I next look who knows how much more I will see?  
There are many proper words in the piece which tell us at least 30% of what is said but it takes a long time to understand the grunts and puffs and even longer for us to include those  in our execution of the Thai language. 
 

Edited March 6, 2021 by tgeezer

[tgeezer]

23 hours ago, vogie said:

I can do quite well untill I come across Thai tones then it's 'oh no' the old hearing is none too good, so that doesn't help.

I thought I would make a thai green curry the other night, found the ingrediants and wrote them all down in Thai, and English sounding Thai. Went down to the market and had a really good laugh, my wife had pointed out to me later that one of the vegetables I was asking for was 'eyelash', I try.????

I have looked up eyelash and would like to know what you were trying to buy and increase my vocabulary from one, (ขนตา),  to two thereby.  

[tgeezer]

6 hours ago, jackdd said:

Why don't you go ahead, since you picked an article? Then others might follow.

 

You obviously understand it, so please translate it for us, sentence by sentence, so we know if we understood it right.

The first comment is fair enough since somtamguy knows how it is done. 
The second is to EricTh who is not claiming to be able to translate the piece. 
In spite of what I said translation should be possible if the meaningless "grunts and puffs" can be identified and I don't mind having a go but I don't want to be doing it alone. We could start with the phone call "grunt ใครโทมา" " Grunt คุณแม่" 

Later than that there is something useful I think, when he ต่อว่าผู้หญิง does he say คุณครับ ทำของตก ? 
Another more easy approach might be to identify words that we do recognise and explore how they are used with other words and thus learn some dialogue.  
I am in lockdown in "Merry England", alas no more, and have these few hours in my PJs and dressing gown instead of in Bangkok wearing my ผ้าขาวม้า and have plenty of time so understand if nobody has time to embark on this process. Maybe Facetime might be acceptable to someone. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by tgeezer

[gunderhill]

Is  there a minus  level?

[jackdd]

32 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

The second is to EricTh who is not claiming to be able to translate the piece. 

I assumed that if he posts a video, and claims that somebody on lower intermediate level should be able to understand it, he is able to understand it himself. If he doesn't understand it then his claim is kind of pointless.

Also a bit ironic that he says nobody uses คุณ, but in the video which he posts they use คุณ.

The woman in the video is there for นัดดูตัว, as she tells her mom on the phone (I assume kind of like a date, but she is more focused on if the guy is wealthy enough)

[vogie]

1 hour ago, tgeezer said:

I have looked up eyelash and would like to know what you were trying to buy and increase my vocabulary from one, (ขนตา),  to two thereby.  

Yes a slight misunderstanding on my behalf, I was making a green curry paste and one of the ingredients was cilantro roots, I typed this into my Thai Dictionary and it came up with cilium and I must not have noticed as I Wrote ขนตา down, which infact translates as ........see download 2. sorry for any confusion, but it was worth it for the laugh we had.

 

[tgeezer]

Good stuff thank you, I have learnt a lot.
That cilantro is Chinese parsley, that parsley is ผักใบเขียวกล่นหอมใช้ปรุงแต่งอาหาร and called ผักชีฝรั่ง . The note says "see พลาสลี่" which I take to mean sometimes said พลา - สลี่  which can be made to sound like parsley said in a Thai way. Also that eyelash is ขนตา from your first post. 
I expect that if I don't use it I will lose it but that is the "name of the game." 

[tgeezer]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

I assumed that if he posts a video, and claims that somebody on lower intermediate level should be able to understand it, he is able to understand it himself. If he doesn't understand it then his claim is kind of pointless.

Also a bit ironic that he says nobody uses คุณ, but in the video which he posts they use คุณ.

The woman in the video is there for นัดดูตัว, as she tells her mom on the phone (I assume kind of like a date, but she is more focused on if the guy is wealthy enough)

Let's not bash one another about.
I wrote มีนัดดูตัวคะแม่  but didn't get it probably because I was looking for นัดบอด   
Did you get what his father does apart from ? .....เป็นเจ้าของร้านอาหารด้วย sounded like สุดบ่วน to me! 

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by tgeezer

[tgeezer]

I have just had another look, she says ได้ยินว่าเขาเป็นลูก.... 

also tells mother ลูกจะเป็นเจ้าของสวน I think. 

[EricTh]

10 hours ago, jackdd said:

 

 

You obviously understand it, so please translate it for us, sentence by sentence, so we know if we understood it right.

 

You obviously didn't understand what I said earlier. These are my points.

 

1. Thai schools teach only literary Thai but not practical Thai , that's why I stopped going there after a few months. I learnt practical Thai by speaking with the man on the street.

 

2. Many people here who think their Thai is of intermediate level need to come back to reality. That's why I posted that video clip.... if you can completely understand that clip and speak like that, then you are of intermediate level. If not, then it's only basic level. I believe even a Grade 3 Thai kid can understand that short video.

 

I've never claimed that I completely understood that clip.

 

3. To go to advanced level, we would be able to speak like a news broadcaster on a broad spectrum of topics and not everyday topic like that short video.

 

This classification is based on any languages and not just Thai.

Edited March 6, 2021 by EricTh

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Did you get what his father does apart from ? .....เป็นเจ้าของร้านอาหารด้วย sounded like สุดบ่วน to me! 

His father has a mango farm, สวนมะม่วง

 

41 minutes ago, EricTh said:

1. Thai schools teach only literary Thai but not practical Thai , that's why I stopped going there after a few months. I learnt practical Thai by speaking with the man on the street.

The best results would probably come from learning both. Schools might teach some literary Thai, but I guess more than 95% of what they teach is also used in common interactions.

 

52 minutes ago, EricTh said:

2. Many people here who think their Thai is of intermediate level need to come back to reality.

Intermediate is just a very broad term. Combine with all the different aspects of a language (listening, speaking, reading, writing), together with knowledge of vocabulary, grammar, the ability to string sentences and so on, then of course you will find big differences in how two persons judge another person's language skills.

[KeeTua]

3 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Did you get what his father does apart from ? .....เป็นเจ้าของร้านอาหารด้วย sounded like สุดบ่วน to me!

 

What I heard is this but wouldn't bet the farm on it being absolutely correct:

ได้ยินมาว่าเขาเป็นลูกเจ้าของสวนมะม่วง but shortened มะม่วง to ม่วง I heard he is the son of a mango orchard owner.

 

*I see Jack beat me to สวนมะม่วง as I was typing.

 

3 hours ago, tgeezer said:

I have just had another look, she says ได้ยินว่าเขาเป็นลูก.... 

also tells mother ลูกจะเป็นเจ้าของสวน I think. 

and:

ลูกแม่น่าจะได้เป็นลูกสะใภ้เจ้าสวน Your daughter may be the daughter in law of an orchard owner.

Edited March 6, 2021 by KeeTua
add comment

[KeeTua]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

Many people here who think their Thai is of intermediate level need to come back to reality. That's why I posted that video clip.... if you can completely understand that clip and speak like that, then you are of intermediate level.

Sorry but that is not intermediate level Thai. That is fluent Thai spoken by Thai adults and if a Farang can understand and speak like that exactly, same speed and all, they too would be fluent, no way intermediate. Sure its not an advanced vocabulary they are using but who cares.

[somtamguy]

55 minutes ago, KeeTua said:

 

What I heard is this but wouldn't bet the farm on it being absolutely correct:

ได้ยินมาว่าเขาเป็นลูกเจ้าของสวนมะม่วง but shortened มะม่วง to ม่วง I heard he is the son of a mango orchard owner.

 

*I see Jack beat me to สวนมะม่วง as I was typing.

 

and:

ลูกแม่น่าจะได้เป็นลูกสะใภ้เจ้าสวน Your daughter may be the daughter in law of an orchard owner.

Pretty sure she said ลูกแม่น่าจะได้เป็นลูกสะใภ้เจ้าสัว not เจ้าสวน 

They sound similar, and seeing as she talked about the mango farm just before this line you probably expected the word to be เจ้าสวน, but i'm fairly certain it's เจ้าสัว

Edited March 6, 2021 by somtamguy

[tgeezer]

Well it is far too fast for me. I heard สวนมะม่วง the second time as I said it sounded nothing like that to me first time round. and I didn't get ลูกสะใภ้ at all. Very little was spoken correctly so It's not surprising that many native speakers are none too particular about spelling.  
Did either of you need to "ask a friend"?