Home Security

[Forethat]

Moderator, please feel free to move this topic appropriately as required.

A couple of days ago the home owners of the gated community where I have my house was shocked when two intruders made their way into one of the houses and stuck a gun in the face of a woman and forced her to hand over all cash, jewellery and all mobile phones. The husband was not at home. The moobaan is surrounded by high walls and barb wire, we have 4 security guards on duty 24/7 and they make hourly patrols. This happened at 11pm on a weekday.

I am terrified. I often leave my entire family alone when I'm on business trips and this event has put me in defence mode. I need to figure out a way to protect my family. As you can understand I dont give jack shit about property, I have two safes, but in all fairness they are useless in case intruders starts threatening my family - if anything they could make things worse just by being there and acting as a target, and my wife doesn't have a key which could be REALLY bad, Buddha forbid.

The obvious solution would be a couple of dogs, but we travel extensively so that doesn't work to well - who'll take care of the dog if we're away? I do have to admit I saw a puppy Pitbull for sale the other day that caused the purchase nerve to itch seriously...

Alarm? Motion detectors with flood lights? How do I protect my family against this kind of stuff, how do I make the intruders opt for someone else's house than mine?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[slapout]

Make sure you have a security wall around your house, even inside a gated community. Keep the gates locked during the day so that any visitors must ring a bell to be admitted.

Now rig up an outside mounted compressed air horn on a switch from which the gate/s are visible. Anyone who you suspect, refuse to leave when you tell them, hit the horn. I have seen 2 way speakers in conjunction with this system so your family can communicate to visitors from in the house.

[flying]

Dog or dogs are a good start as you mentioned.

Pit bulls not so much though...I raised them for years & at the end of the day they look

ferocious but are quite friendly to most anyone.

Lots of other breeds do better for security. Dogs are the best early warning

As for the safes in your house... you are right that in your case they are more of a problem than a solution.

An armed intruder bold enough to come in as you mentioned & force someone to hand over cash etc. Will see them &

make the owner open it. If your wife claims as you said she does not have a key they may think she is unwilling &

who knows where it goes from there eh?

Forget safes I cannot believe so many think they are in fact safe.

Use your imagination & you will do much better with a concealed space.

As for intruders you will need to decide your tolerance & your wife's

The dog as you mentioned & good security doors are a start.

You may also choose to arm your wife & train her to use the weapon for self defense.

At the end of the day if these types are so bold to enter homes with owners home it may be your best choice.

If not what will she do? Dial 911 & hope someone comes in time?

[Mrjlh]

Two suggestions:

1. Put all outside lights on motion sensors. If you add lights with motion sensors, place high so they are out of reach except by ladder. Adjust for range, time they stay on and sensitivity. Takes time to get the settings where you want.

2. Security cameras are becoming very affordable and cheap. You can get wireless ones or wired ones. Both types take some form of electrical supply to operate. Get ones that have high resolution so you can identify people. You can hide them or expose them. You can get one that functions as an outdoor light with motion sensor and has a camera hidden in it. Many types. Visible ones sometimes send the message "I have something of value here", but I think it mainly says I'm being safe.

3. It doesn't do you any good to have cameras unless you record what they see. So you should get a recorder. They are the most expensive part of the system. Come in several configurations depending on your budget but normally the simplest can record 4 separate cameras over a 24 hour period running a continuous loop. They should have a battery back up in case of power failure. They can record constantly or at timed intervals. Any where from 8 hrs to 6 months again depending on model. And don't make the recorder easy to find in the house. Doesn't do any good if they steal it. I put mine in the attic. Because you set it once and never use it until something happens.

And don't tell people what you have! It's none of their business.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Mrjlh

[Soutpeel]

First thing I would be doing is getting your security guards changed out....would bet money they were involved with the other break in somehow

alarm and sensor lights are a good option.

Educate your family, do not leave doors/windows open during the day/night unattended, if alarm is installed..switch it on...

Bedooms your family use are secured ..ie locks on the doors which are locked when they go to sleep, even security doors/windows on the bedrooms may be an option.

Dummy CCTV cameras may also be an option.

I work away and Mrs Soutpeel is on her own for periods of time so have installed sensor lights on the property as the first line, if the lights dont scare them off, the whole house (doors/windows) is alarmed, if this doesnt scare them off ..the main bedroom is secure, ie someone cant get in and the very last resort is Mrs Soutpeel's a 0.38 cal .....

Dogs are an option, but can be very easily "by-passed" by any self respecting thief.

[Oberkommando]

Perhaps consider a move to a country that has less gun crime than Thailand?

Seriously, when something like this happens you've got to question your commitments to this country and in regards to your family especially now as the crime rates are spiralling out of control, anti-social behaviour is on the increase and there is more dissension amongst the majority poor classes than ever before.

I will tell you one thing, it's only going to get worse over the next few years, not better.

[thequietman]

the dogs are the best and only way to protect your home satisfactorily and even then if they want to come into your home, they will poison them. alarms, cameras are all good deterents but if someone really wants to burgal your home, there is very little you can do. i have been in the security game for a number of years and experience has proven this. i even have an alarm system in my home which my thai wife and family refuse to use. it appears they have to engage their brians to remember the pass number or just to press the arm/disarm fob button, so they prefer not to. if there is space around your home put loose gravel. burgulars dont like this as it lets dogs and owners hear them walking through the property. sensor lights are useful but because there are cats and chickens galore it will be going off all the time.

statistics show that the majority of homes are robbed by people you know or neighbours. either in the act or through a third person. as hard as it will be for your thai wife, tell her not to tell everyone and sunder what you have in your home and whats its worth. thais are notorious for telling complete strangers how rich they are, just to show good face. move the safes from your home and get a security box. some thai banks have them for a fee. and lastly and most importantly try not to rub your wealth in peoples faces. i know you have earned the right to have your extravagant things but its best to keep a low profile. i personally have a modest thai home from the outside, but evry mod con you can think off inside. i have all my luxuries but i chose to keep them hidden. neighbours think we are just scraping by and that suits me.

keeping a gun in the house is a terrible idea, if they find it first when they break in, you are in trouble.

[surayu]

Invest in technology, CCTV, motion detectors, lights, super-loud alarms (otherways your neighbour and/or the car of the thief can easily cover the sound with some music), internet, and a small power generator in case they decide to cut your energy supply before to step in.

The police here is simply inexistent and are just there to make more damages if involved, i already reported in the past their criminal behauvoir, stay away from them.

Setup an alert system that as soon as something unusual happen you get immediately alerted, like setting up a room that has never to be open unless others get silently alerted for example.

You got already the security guards (always be carefull about potential "insider jobs" too), did you (and your neighbour houses) setup something like a panic button to alert them in case something like this happen? obviously the button doesn't have to look like a "button", just to avoid bullets hitting the victims by coincidence, it can just be a cupboard door that act as a switch when opened.

Good luck....but maybe on this istance was better to say "good lock" ?

[surayu]

the majority of homes are robbed by people you know or neighbours. either in the act or through a third person.

When me, the police and the self confessing neighbour thief with still the stolen items in his home were having a discussion about the theft the neighbour proudly was bragging about, all the police could do is to ask me question about my visa, passport, etc, refusing to take any action against the thief just in front of them or even recover my properties, they then asked me if i had anything of value into my house and where i do keep them, i let you guess why they wanted to know, when i asked them what should i do if i find the thief holding a weapon inside my house in the middle of the night, they only answered by having a malicious laugh/grin and walked away, welcome to thailand !!!

[Cobalt60]

Start paying the security guards more than the intruders are.

[craigt3365]

Really sorry to hear about your experiences. Unfortunately, this happens in every country in the world. You've gotten some good recommendations. The only thing I would add is to have bars put on the windows and doors. That way, nobody can just walk in. And for sure keep them locked after dark.

Best of luck in getting this sorted out....

[alantheembalmer]

Find out how they got into your neighbour's home, and make sure they can't do the same to you.

Put an itercom on any access points so that the door is not opened to anyone, but you can speak to any caller.

Make sure there are no hidden corners around your house where people can hide out of sight, and after dark have motion detectors attached to a bright lighting system. If there is one thing thieves do not like it is to be seen.

Lastly, when thieves know what is available in a house or neighbourhood, they return relativley quickly, so enhance your secuity now.

Alan

[Beetlejuice]

Some of the advice given on here is good but way over the top, no need to get paranoid; things are not all that bad is you use common sense and these terrible events are rarer than you think, even if this has happened close to home.

This is what my family and I do.

We have a couple of large dogs. This helps by that they bark if anyone approaches the property and acts as a deterrent. But not a necessity.

We own a lot of valuable gold jewellery, watches, coins, diamond rings and so on that have been bought or given to us over the years. No way would we be bold enough to wear these walking around in public places as victims waiting to happen and those invitations to the Queen Elizabeth’s garden party have failed to arrive, so we have very little reasons to wear them. Mostly for investment purposes and to pass on to our children once me and the misses have kicked the bucket.

So I rented a strong box at the Bangkok Bank. (600 baht per year) In there we keep our valuable jewellery, important paperwork and a few family heirlooms. I see no reasons to keep stuff like that in our home, not just for security but also in case of fire, flood or some other disaster happening. Also if someone does break in while no one is at home, there is not much there for them to take, or at least a lot less goodies lying around for them.

I have a very small box floor safe purchased from Homepro (640 baht) just for keeping the odd cash and a few papers rather than leaving it out openly in the house.

If you have bars installed on the windows and a couple of decent locks fitted to the main exterior doors, plus the advice I have given above, should be adequate security enough.

If someone is determined to break in, they will do it, no matter how good your security. Having stuff like, large safes in the home, cct and burglar alarms displayed is only a signal to people saying that you have something worth stealing, not a good idea. My advice is, dismantle the safes, sell them off for scrape and keep the valuables in the bank

[Schooner]

The intruders already chose another house over yours. I agree that the majority of these breakins are insider deals. My home is very secure with security guards, high walls and cameras, but a neighbor was burglarized a few years ago. We all think it was an inside job. His wife likes to flaunt her wealth and It would surprise none of us if she was involved.

It's impossible to avoid having people in your home who may be casing the place. Just this year we've had AC people, cable people, internet people and the pool girls 3 times a week. Hopefully they also see the security measures we've taken as well. One thing we have going for us is that we have the least valuable home in the village and our neighbors are all far wealthier.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Schooner

[Flatouthruthefog]

<br />Find out how they got into your neighbour's home, and make sure they can't do the same to you.<br />Put an itercom on any access points so that the door is not opened to anyone, but you can speak to any caller.<br />Make sure there are no hidden corners around your house where people can hide out of sight, and after dark have motion detectors attached to a bright lighting system. If there is one thing thieves do not like it is to be seen.<br />Lastly, when thieves know what is available in a house or neighbourhood, they return relativley quickly, so enhance your secuity now.<br /><br />Alan<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Tons of good advice for everyone here, no matter where our homes may be. Best advice I had when settling here: Small car, small house, small wife, small profile.

I especially like the low profile exterior and "all you could wish for inside" advice. But be careful who you invite in for drinky-poos.

The OP certainly has only part of the story re the unfortunate neighbour. Do your best to find out HOW they got into the house. They didn't suddenly materialise in the lounge with a gun, huh? HOW did they get past the 'gate guardians'? Has this been raised (like Hell!) with the people allegedly running that site? Get 'em replaced, or as another poster said, pay them properly.

Lastly, I was fortunate enough to know the popular UK musician who was murdered in his home in Chiang Mai, by 3 men who burst in and beat and stabbed him (fatally) in a futile bid to get the combination of his safe. Then they simply dragged the safe to his car and stole that too.

A close friend and I had visited the victim weeks before at his previous rented house. His safe was in full view of the front door with the TV sitting on it! We agreed how unwise this was, but very sadly didn't make the point to him. I doubt he would have listened. I decided then and there that at my home we would have a well concealed hiding place. Clue: Thais seldom look up, Just watch any cleaner!! My chum then told me that his safe was behind a framed picture, exactly half way up his staircase.

Food for thought. And do ignore the police. To all intents and (these) purposes, they do not exist.

[surayu]

And just to make things a bit more clear, keep in mind that even some foreigners here, despite even having been targeted and fallen for one of the many scams, it will still deny that this is a bad thing and can go to extreme arguments trying to defend the perpetrators, sorry i am not a psichiatrist and cannot really tell you what is that all about in more technical terms.

As soon as you try to protect yourself and being a rational and well aware person, they will try to tell you things like "you are paranoid, these things don't happen in Thailand" or "it's like anywhere else", trying to make you lower down your defense, beware! they are the irrational ones, not you!

Crimes happen everywhere, yes, but in this country even the way the different crimes are dealt with is a world apart (that's obviously if you are not coming from another 3rd world country, where things might be even worse) from the civilized part of the globe.

Just assume you are in the middle of a jungle and on your own, that would be just appropriated.

Technology, even if not perfect, can give you great advantages, like being able to see how many criminals are inside your property and where, don't listen to who said it's not an advantage, as they are probably looking at this from the prospective of the thiefs, in that case yes they are right

Quick question for anyones in the knows, which one is the best place to upload the recording of the CCTV on the internet? as a thief might steal the CCTV recorder as well but i don't thing he will go as far to delete the same recording uploaded on the net and protected by a password....

Thanks.

[mstribling]

I shoot beer bottles in the river next to my house on a routine basis.

Word gets around.

[tangcoral]

OP said: " How do I protect my family against this kind of stuff, how do I make the intruders opt for someone else's house than mine?"

Unfortunately I do not live in a mooban and have no gaurds patrolling but that is not to say moobans are any less susceptible to home invasions.

With the lack of a gated community and patrol guards we opted to invest on security measures that at least would make our neighbors an easier target.

It also helps to drive the least expensive car on our block and keep the personal belongings to a bare minimum. We opted not fill our house with large flat screns, opulent furnitures or things that look valuable.

Yeah what life with out nice toys you say? Well if I wanted these things I would be living in the wrong country, a country where police presences is non existence and the wide gap between the rich and poor.

Typically in thailand its either an inside job or been cased by invited maintenance workers, AC, electrician, cleaners, delivery etc...

With that said, I installed lots of lights inside and out and I mean a lot. Some of them on timers to go off at dusk and some activated by motion but most importantly every square inch of the house exterior is covered.

During bedtime I make sure only the main areas are kept on and all motion lights to cover the rest.

I have an extensive surveillance camera set up indoors in every room and all four corners of the house with every angle covered including the drive way and any approaching vehicle to our house.

With a push of a button I have access to every camera angle on my bedroom tv.

The one thing I am lacking is a panic room. However I'm working on one but it does not cost nearly as much as everyone thinks, as a part of the bedroom or bathroom can be converted one.

My alarm system has every entry points covered, all motion covered should they gain entry without tripping the alarm and every light in the house is switched on including the indoor and outdoor siren and strobe light where people 20 houses away can spot something is going on at my house. Was not hard to install and a lot easier than most people think. I am very careful as not to have false alarms as it can turn easily into a boy that cried wolf.

I have an cctv and alarm system that would put some of these thai banks to shame.

EDIT* someone mentioned how to upload cctv videos to remote location, well I didnt choose that route but it would nearly take 30 to an hour just to get to the recorder all secured by rebars and concrete concealed in a enclosed place.

How much did it cost all? 150,000 but I'm sure just as effective system can be done for 100,000.

I'm sure you can hand over just one of your many jewelry just to cover this.

All this a bit overboard? Probably, but I can sleep well at nights.

Is it worth it? well havent ran into any problems yet , knock on wood but my house easily makes my neighbors homes a much easier target.

However with all the extra measures I made, it does seem like I have something to hide which I dont know if its a good thing but boy will they be disappointed with the useless loot they will find at my house.

Edited April 13, 2011 by tangcoral

[mstribling]

What precautions would you take back home? Try them here.

[surayu]

I shoot beer bottles in the river next to my house on a routine basis.

Word gets around.

That's interesting, can i ask what kind of camera do you use for your shootings?

[mstribling]

it's a little bit different. I have a cheap Russian pistol I brought in from Cambodia.

[surayu]

it's a little bit different. I have a cheap Russian pistol I brought in from Cambodia.

Ouch... .....I hope you managed to register it under your name (yes a foreigner can legally own and use a firearm in Thailand, but is a bit complex as you can imagine, this is a note for whom might not be aware of it).

[surayu]

What precautions would you take back home? Try them here.

For me unfortunately doesn't work like that, back home i would have the nearest police station direct telephone number handy, i still remember that in some occasions, i didn't even finish to tell them what was all about that a police car was just there!! try to do this here if you can.

In my country we have soooooooo many problems, but for the police efficience in dealing with trivial matters, they EXCELL, nothing less, nothing more, both the military and the civil police forces.

Thailand? ehhrmm, i'll pass

[surayu]

EDIT* someone mentioned how to upload cctv videos to remote location, well I didnt choose that route but it would nearly take 30 to an hour just to get to the recorder all secured by rebars and concrete concealed in a enclosed place.

Yes that's going to give you more time, i thought about it too, the problem is that you must have access to them sometime, as they are far from being perfect machines....

A thief seeing cameras around might also want to take/destroy the recorder, especially if they are someone you wouldn't expect to be criminals......

Uploading a protected video to the web, can also give you the additional security with some member of your close family abroad being able to get access to it, never share the access code or possibly even talk about it with your thai wife or any member of her family/common friends.

[kunash]

have a wall all the way round your land / house. that way if anyone is inside and un authorised then you know they have crossed the border which is suspicious because they have had to climb over a fence. they cannot have an excuse and say they were just casually walking past.

If your house has allot of glass door and windows. the put steal on the inside or out side. there are some good designs

have a heavy lock in your bedroom. and a spare mobile phone. If someone does spray something under the door to knock you out then they will still have a problem getting into my room before dawn. Also if ypu wake up then you have a phone next to you.

Motion sensors around the walls.

keep all kids safe as robbers might use these as tools to gain the upper hand.

CCTVhelps but it is not much of a tool for catching up with them. If you are out u can view your house via the internet then great.

if you leave the house for days weeks months. then timer switches migt help and send give a copy of the keys to one trusted friend. they can water plants and make some activity in the house in the day time and take the post inside.

one big give away is piles of post outside someones house. means they have been away for a while.

also maybe have two safes. one with a little money in ( enough to make the robbers happy ), and can be found easy enough. and a second safe hidden - under the floor or... with yor main valuables

as for what u do if u catch a theif. is up to you.

Edited April 13, 2011 by kunash

[swissie]

Perhaps consider a move to a country that has less gun crime than Thailand?

Seriously, when something like this happens you've got to question your commitments to this country and in regards to your family especially now as the crime rates are spiralling out of control, anti-social behaviour is on the increase and there is more dissension amongst the majority poor classes than ever before.

I will tell you one thing, it's only going to get worse over the next few years, not better.

Agreed ! As long as the "underprivileged" majority of Thais can find no other way to participate at the ever increasing wealth of the "mighty Bangkok-Elite", they will start to "take-it", wherever they can.

- A Farang Mansion (secured like a fortress, = high brick walls surrounding the place, windows secured by iron bars, guard dogs etc.) sends a clear signal: HERE IT IS !

A case in point: Our 2 daughters bought a house near the old Don Muang Airport. The village is surrounded by high walls and there are 4 security-guards on duty 24 hours a day but still break-ins on a weekly basis !!!! No question: The "security-guards" must have made a deal with "somebody from the outside". By doing this, they make a multiple of what their basic salary is as a security-guard.

So then, must one hire security for his own property within a "guarded village" ???

Trouble in paradise ahead ? Very possible. The next elections in Thailand are just around the corner. Might be a good indicator as to where Thailand is headed.

Cheers.

[mstribling]

How someone can turn a burglary into a political theme is beyond me.

[simon43]

How to avoid burglery?

Knock down the 2 meter wall, remove the motion sensors and lights, send the rottwielers on a long holiday, swap the Fortuna for a Vigo.

Stop advertising "The money is in here - come and get it!"

Simon

[swissie]

How someone can turn a burglary into a political theme is beyond me.

If the subject was a "simple burglary", it could be classified as an isolated incident.

But if it becomes a trend (a way of living) for people that have no access to the "Miracles of the Globalization" (people from the Isaan, for example), Thailand (and it's Elite) may have a problem on it's hands.

As the trend is in place and no remedy is in sight, "Burglaries" will be on the increase.

This is why a "burglary" can turn into a "Political-Theme". (as questioned above). Wait and see.

Cheers.

[mstribling]

Or they might just be thieves.