What Makes Thai Staff/People Tick?

[kuffki]

Having business in Thailand is not an easy task(not that its easy anywhere else)

However same problem always comes up in every discussion when talking about running business in Thailand and thats staff problems.

There is no doubt there is a huge cultural difference and for foreigner owner to be successful, one needs to understand what makes locals tick. What makes staff be loyal, happy and productive.

After 8 years here, sadly i am yet to learn what those factors are, so hoping others can share their experience or perhaps together we could get somewhere.

I could be assuming, but from the outside, it seems most Thai owned businesses do not seem to have same problems. Some examples i have noticed

-Many have same staff for many years

-Staff work 6-7 days per week, working long hours

-Staff salary is very low and yet full of staff.

Some of the problems i have encountered have been

-Staff just do not show up to work(not even a phone call)

-Very unreliable and rather not loyal(would quit the job if get a better offer)-see below for more detail

-Expecting and demanding double to what Thai business pay.

-Never really happy.

- All my staff work maximum 48 hours per week and if work long hours get extra day off. EG. Some staff work 12 hour days 4 days per week and get 3 days off -every single week

I found very interesting hiring staff.

A huge number ask for salary to be almost double to what Thai owned business pay. Some examples, housekeeping/maids get 5500-6000 baht per month, i offer mine 7500 and they want 9000 plus gas money plus free food.

Hotels like Hard Rock, pay their front desk 7000 baht per month, i offer 9000, they want 12000

Many times i have seen someone work and offered them a job paying more salary then they had currently and they turned it down.

While many times, my staff gets offered extra free meal, but less salary they quit and go work there.

I have come to conclusion that money is not the main motivator for the staff, the ease of job is also not part of it.

So what does make Thai staff tick?????

Edited April 24, 2011 by kuffki

[Semper]

Some of the problems i have encountered have been

-Staff just do not show up to work(not even a phone call)

Why do you keep them? Have you ever seen a Thai employer? ( they are normaly Thai-Chinese)

and they would not accept anything the like your are posting about.

[kuffki]

Some of the problems i have encountered have been

-Staff just do not show up to work(not even a phone call)

Why do you keep them? Have you ever seen a Thai employer? ( they are normaly Thai-Chinese)

and they would not accept anything the like your are posting about.

Thats exactly the point! How do they "control " their staff?

What buttons they push or offers they make ?

Something must make local people tick to be good(sort of speak) employee.

PS. Pretty much all people i know (foreigners) who own or run business in Thailand have their staff for most of the time just not show up without any warning.

[Semper]

Some of the problems i have encountered have been

-Staff just do not show up to work(not even a phone call)

Why do you keep them? Have you ever seen a Thai employer? ( they are normaly Thai-Chinese)

and they would not accept anything the like your are posting about.

Thats exactly the point! How do they "control " their staff?

What buttons they push or offers they make ?

Something must make local people tick to be good(sort of speak) employee.

PS. Pretty much all people i know (foreigners) who own or run business in Thailand have their staff for most of the time just not show up without any warning.

I think they and you are to "soft" with them. Just show them where the door is.

[kuffki]

Some of the problems i have encountered have been

-Staff just do not show up to work(not even a phone call)

Why do you keep them? Have you ever seen a Thai employer? ( they are normaly Thai-Chinese)

and they would not accept anything the like your are posting about.

Thats exactly the point! How do they "control " their staff?

What buttons they push or offers they make ?

Something must make local people tick to be good(sort of speak) employee.

PS. Pretty much all people i know (foreigners) who own or run business in Thailand have their staff for most of the time just not show up without any warning.

I think they and you are to "soft" with them. Just show them where the door is.

LOL, and who will work then? and showing the door is hardly a solution to not having same problems over and over again.

[cdnmatt]

Thai employers are generally quite controlling, to the point of being militaristic, especially with menial labor. Beginning of the shift, everyone gets a pep talk, and look over. "Tuck in your shirt!", "Why haven't you cut your fingernails?!?!", etc.

Us farangs aren't brought up to treat staff like that, so you're probably in a lose-lose situation.

[janverbeem]

Some of the problems i have encountered have been

-Staff just do not show up to work(not even a phone call)

Why do you keep them? Have you ever seen a Thai employer? ( they are normaly Thai-Chinese)

and they would not accept anything the like your are posting about.

Thats exactly the point! How do they "control " their staff?

What buttons they push or offers they make ?

Something must make local people tick to be good(sort of speak) employee.

PS. Pretty much all people i know (foreigners) who own or run business in Thailand have their staff for most of the time just not show up without any warning.

I think they and you are to "soft" with them. Just show them where the door is.

Exactly my thoughts.Offer a Thai a finger and he wil take your arm.

I don't want to sound rude or unhuman but it is a fact,when you treat a dog like a dog he will be your best friend.

Edited April 24, 2011 by janverbeem

[kuffki]

Some of the problems i have encountered have been

-Staff just do not show up to work(not even a phone call)

Why do you keep them? Have you ever seen a Thai employer? ( they are normaly Thai-Chinese)

and they would not accept anything the like your are posting about.

Thats exactly the point! How do they "control " their staff?

What buttons they push or offers they make ?

Something must make local people tick to be good(sort of speak) employee.

PS. Pretty much all people i know (foreigners) who own or run business in Thailand have their staff for most of the time just not show up without any warning.

I think they and you are to "soft" with them. Just show them where the door is.

Exactly my thoughts.Offer a Thai a finger and he wil take your arm.

I don't want to sound rude or unhuman but it is a fact,when you treat a dog like a dog he will be your best friend.

i think you may find and possibly some business owner will agree with me here but if a foreigner owner speaks this way with Thai staff they either do not do any work at all that day or high chances some of them simply will not be showing up the next day.

Any pressure makes them run, just look at customer service at any business, the moment you get angry or demand something they simply run away rather then deal with a situation or look for solution, jus total shut down-there must be an off switch somewhere

Edited April 24, 2011 by kuffki

[kuffki]

Some of the problems i have encountered have been

-Staff just do not show up to work(not even a phone call)

Why do you keep them? Have you ever seen a Thai employer? ( they are normaly Thai-Chinese)

and they would not accept anything the like your are posting about.

Thats exactly the point! How do they "control " their staff?

What buttons they push or offers they make ?

Something must make local people tick to be good(sort of speak) employee.

PS. Pretty much all people i know (foreigners) who own or run business in Thailand have their staff for most of the time just not show up without any warning.

I think they and you are to "soft" with them. Just show them where the door is.

Exactly my thoughts.Offer a Thai a finger and he wil take your arm.

I don't want to sound rude or unhuman but it is a fact,when you treat a dog like a dog he will be your best friend.

so what is the bone to be the best friend?

[Semper]

Try workers from Myanmar. They are very different compared to Thai.

[kuffki]

Try workers from Myanmar. They are very different compared to Thai.

Actually they are excellent, hard workers, BUT, not too many of them have the Thai work permit and it can not always be renewed. Also not all speak Thai

Also as a foreigner must have 4 Thai staff as minimum before can employ Burmese.(to keep my work permit)

[jdinasia]

If your staff doesn't respect you, they will walk all over you. If they do respect you they will be loyal and productive.

If you have problems keeping staff, simply look at the management.

[janverbeem]

I think they and you are to "soft" with them. Just show them where the door is.

Exactly my thoughts.Offer a Thai a finger and he wil take your arm.

I don't want to sound rude or unhuman but it is a fact,when you treat a dog like a dog he will be your best friend.

i think you may find and possibly some business owner will agree with me here but if a foreigner owner speaks this way with Thai staff they either do not do any work at all that day or high chances some of them simply will not be showing up the next day.

Any pressure makes them run, just look at customer service at any business, the moment you get angry or demand something they simply run away rather then deal with a situation or look for solution, jus total shut down-there must be an off switch somewhere

so what is the bone to be the best friend?

I didn't say you have to kick a dog to be him your best fiend.The answer to your question was answered by Cdnmatt.

[BangrakBob]

Kuffki I seriously recommend this book;

Working with Thais: A guide to managing in Thailand

I think it will give you some of the answers you are looking for, it was recommended to me by a Thai person before opening my business in Thailand.

The book is an easy read, not too long, clear, concise and gives a great insight into the cultural issues at play in the work place that you won't be seeing but they are happening.

Edited April 24, 2011 by SamuiNige

[kuffki]

If your staff doesn't respect you, they will walk all over you. If they do respect you they will be loyal and productive.

If you have problems keeping staff, simply look at the management.

so far everyone has tried to rather criticize the management ie myself without even knowing my management style,

The whole idea of a thread is to find/discover/understand local culture to be able to make changes to have productive staff.

I can also name 100 reasons for staff to act out, respect etc etc etc.

Again what makes Thai staff tick? what makes them have respect? is it the money? is it their job title? is it their working conditions? is it the size of employers muscles?

Would be good to hear from other business owners to hear their opinion on the matter

[kuffki]

Kiffki I seriously recommend this book;

Working with Thais: A guide to managing in Thailand

I think will give you some of the answers you are looking for, it was recommended to me by a Thai person before opening my business in Thailand.

The book is an easy read, not too long, clear, concise and gives a great insight into the cultural issues at play in the work place that you won't be seeing but they are happening.

I have read that book, it does cover really well how to manage locals, but does not give much information into what makes them tick.

Say in Oz, (of course depending on the industry) but people are motivated by good salary, good working conditions and for some future,

I find Thai staff are not motivated by any of those. Paying 10000 baht per month or 20000 baht per month does not make them work harder.

Promising promotion does not do the job either.

Having an easy cushioned job, still does not work.

One of my friends owns a real estate office and needs reception girl. The job is to be in the office from 12pm-8pm watch 50 inch LCD TV(just watch TV for fun) and answer phone when it rings and take messages if anyone comes in, salary 10 000 baht per month.

Believe it or not, he can not fill the position,they quit after few weeks

PS. The book is like a bible in the office

Edited April 24, 2011 by kuffki

[jdinasia]

If your staff doesn't respect you, they will walk all over you. If they do respect you they will be loyal and productive.

If you have problems keeping staff, simply look at the management.

so far everyone has tried to rather criticize the management ie myself without even knowing my management style,

The whole idea of a thread is to find/discover/understand local culture to be able to make changes to have productive staff.

I can also name 100 reasons for staff to act out, respect etc etc etc.

Again what makes Thai staff tick? what makes them have respect? is it the money? is it their job title? is it their working conditions? is it the size of employers muscles?

Would be good to hear from other business owners to hear their opinion on the matter

I have a Thai staff of approximately 20, and strictly a Thai clientele. In the past 16 months I have fired one Thai staff member. I have had 2 leave (with a month's notice each time) and have had 2 housekeepers decide they didn't like the job in a day and they were paid off that day, not to return.

It is damned near impossible to describe exactly why staff respects management but it is about the person managing more than it is ever about pay etc. I spend very little time checking on the work performance of staff and instead keep it limited enough to let them know I am paying attention. For example, I will ask to see whatever assignments I have made, and give feedback. I will thank the staff almost daily and will point out when something can be improved upon only in a 1:1 session that is informal. I have more senior Thai staff that know my expectations and when things are slacking I speak with them. I monitor the "contentment factor" and do little things for the staff when it is slipping. The staff knows there will be weeks that are just hellish and they know that there are weeks that they are able to coast.

It all boils down, in the end, to do they respect YOU. People have different management styles and yet still have efficient businesses, but businesses that are efficient all have respected management.

[sbk]

Our cook has been with us for 7 years and is treated with dignity, respect, given responsibility and paid well. She shows up for work, works her butt off and is fiercely loyal.

Another staff has been with us only 5 years and is the same. Did we get lucky in hiring or is it some management style? Don't know but I do know that if you treat a person like a dog you will get bitten.

[naboo]

One of my friends owns a real estate office and needs reception girl. The job is to be in the office from 12pm-8pm watch 50 inch LCD TV(just watch TV for fun) and answer phone when it rings and take messages if anyone comes in, salary 10 000 baht per month.

Sounds like a really boring job to me. Tell your friend to offer 2 jobs at 6k/month each. Then the staff can talk to eachother about the soaps they're watching. Jobs will be filled by two friends in no time.

Boring - no. Hard work - no. Stress - no.

Look at the staff in 7/11. There are usually twice as many staff as you would need in the west, but you need to factor in here the social aspect of the job, talking to your friends. Considering Thais spend so much time at work, it is their life, they need to have fun and friends whilst working. And who cares if 5 people are queuing for one till whilst 3 other staff stand around talking? Mai bpen rai!

ngaan = work. ngaan = Party/festival. Same word, work should be a party. Sitting watching TV for 40 hours a week, on your own, no thanks!

My girlfriend immediately started looking for a new job as soon as her friend left. Her current job, paying 13000B/month, was now boring. She was desperate to land a job at 9000/month at a university, two reasons - prestige of working at a university and she'd be working with someone she studied with previously.

And boss providing food is an absolute must.

[jdinasia]

Our cook has been with us for 7 years and is treated with dignity, respect, given responsibility and paid well. She shows up for work, works her butt off and is fiercely loyal.

Another staff has been with us only 5 years and is the same. Did we get lucky in hiring or is it some management style? Don't know but I do know that if you treat a person like a dog you will get bitten.

I agree.

Praise publicly.

Criticize minimally and always in private.

Treat staff well.

Our newest housekeeper at one of our locations stopped on her way out to try and have me look in her purse the first time she left. I took her aside into a side office and explained that neither I nor anyone else at my office would ever subject her to searches like her last job did. I then showed her where the key to my house was located in the office and said she may need to know in case I or one of the other directors ever needed her to run and get something from my office. She has turned into an awesome employee and I expect we will keep her until her son graduates from school.

[Beetlejuice]

From my experience Thai business owners have exactly the same problems with their staff. The grass is not greener on the other side.

This is why I work for an overseas employer and would not want to be in business for all the tea in Thailand.

Also I think most farang owned businesses can never be completely legal in Thailand, so who want`s all that headache and stress? Not me, that`s for sure.

Now I am partly retired and next year will early retire completely. Done my time so when I use the services of business owners, I just pay whatever and let them have the worry of having to pay all their overheads, staff problems and giving me a satisfactory service as a customer.

Staff problems are the same worldwide and your welcome.

[mstribling]

It's the money.

[Furbie]

One of the major difficulties you will have as a foreigner managing people in Thailand is the senior/junior relationship. You, as a foreigner, cannot be counted on to be a true senior and protect your juniors. I do not know what your business is, but in the professional business environment I work in, this is a fact. In some cases, Thais we have tried to hire wanted to bring whole teams over with them from their previous job. Many will want to bring at least their assistant and their driver if it’s a senior position. We actually had one total screw up in the company, but the director he worked for protected him for years until he made the director lose face with a big client (he was gone within a week after that). This is a big part of what makes them tick.

In many westernized companies, you will not see this to the same extent. People will earn more money and it will be based more upon merit. This will attract people who are not afraid to be judged based upon their achievements in the work place.

This does not mean one model is better than the other, but it has always helped me deal with the very different environment I am in. It took several years where I am now to build my credibility with SOME of my juniors. But being fair, protecting them when they do something wrong and taking the hit for it has helped. I have basically chosen a middle path to survive the environment - but it does get to me.

[wintermute]

There are loads of Singaporeans, Chinese-Malays, Taiwanese, etc.. who own factories/substantial assets in Thailand and they make it work. The main reason why is that they put a Thai middle manager in direct contact with Thai staff to micromanage them while the real asian foreign owners pull strings from up top.

It's easier to hire (or consequently get rid of) one well paid Thai middle manager than it is to worry about hiring/firing dozens of indolent junior Thai staff who don't care one wit about the job or you. They use the pyramid hierarchy system of business management that way most of the day to day responsibility is on the shoulders of the middle tier. To hire a good middle manager all you need to do is be willing to pay a good salary and play up the face aspects of the job. There are actually a lot of motivated Thai grads with a good education who are willing to step into a manager's role.

The problem is your average foreign owner doesn't understand these cultural things and maybe feels like they can go the small business route of doing everything. This just doesn't fly in Thailand unless you're in specific niche businesses.

Edited April 25, 2011 by wintermute

[jimbeam1]

If your staff doesn't respect you, they will walk all over you. If they do respect you they will be loyal and productive.

If you have problems keeping staff, simply look at the management.

so far everyone has tried to rather criticize the management ie myself without even knowing my management style,

The whole idea of a thread is to find/discover/understand local culture to be able to make changes to have productive staff.

I can also name 100 reasons for staff to act out, respect etc etc etc.

Again what makes Thai staff tick? what makes them have respect? is it the money? is it their job title? is it their working conditions? is it the size of employers muscles?

Would be good to hear from other business owners to hear their opinion on the matter

I would say rather than a management fault. It is more man/person management skills that are needed. Either you have it or you don't.

jb1

[SteeleJoe]

If your staff doesn't respect you, they will walk all over you. If they do respect you they will be loyal and productive.

Truth.

WARNING: Generalizations to follow --

Speaking as someone who has worked here for decades, perhaps the most important (and in a way hardest) lesson I learned is that as Thailand is not an egalitarian society and that is ultimately not a traditional Thai ideal, nothing works right if you don't recognize the heirarchy -- not only when dealing with those who are (by thai standards) in a higher position than but also those "below" you. Treating someone lower on the ladder (and employee or whomever) too close to an equal will often confuse them and generally make them (consciously or not) lose respect for you. They might think you are a nice guy but they won't necessarily respect you.

And then you're screwed. (Especially since if you one day turn around and act differently, they are likely to resent it unless you are very skillful at making that change).

It was hard lesson to learn because of my own very dearly held ideals and those of the society I was brought up in. But it is the reality.

This doesn't mean you have to be cruel, insensitive or gratuitously harsh -- be kind when you can do so without being soft. But they MUST know there is a steel hand inside the velvet glove.

Also don't forget that fun is important. Be tough but (relatively) generous with things like trips, parties, and perhaps an occasional bonus.

if it's done right, they will look at you as almost a surrogate parent: to be loved but not to be trifled with. And then (the good ones or even just the OK ones) will be mostly loyal and hardworking

[Jajazazajaja]

One of my friends owns a real estate office and needs reception girl. The job is to be in the office from 12pm-8pm watch 50 inch LCD TV(just watch TV for fun) and answer phone when it rings and take messages if anyone comes in, salary 10 000 baht per month.

Sounds like a really boring job to me. Tell your friend to offer 2 jobs at 6k/month each. Then the staff can talk to eachother about the soaps they're watching. Jobs will be filled by two friends in no time.

Boring - no. Hard work - no. Stress - no.

Look at the staff in 7/11. There are usually twice as many staff as you would need in the west, but you need to factor in here the social aspect of the job, talking to your friends. Considering Thais spend so much time at work, it is their life, they need to have fun and friends whilst working. And who cares if 5 people are queuing for one till whilst 3 other staff stand around talking? Mai bpen rai!

ngaan = work. ngaan = Party/festival. Same word, work should be a party. Sitting watching TV for 40 hours a week, on your own, no thanks!

My girlfriend immediately started looking for a new job as soon as her friend left. Her current job, paying 13000B/month, was now boring. She was desperate to land a job at 9000/month at a university, two reasons - prestige of working at a university and she'd be working with someone she studied with previously.

And boss providing food is an absolute must.

I have joined this forum to basically say yes to all of this.

I audit various facilities all over Asia, before I arrive, the management run around for 2 weeks stressing and instructing their staff how to behave for the week I am there. The net result of this is that everyone is so wound up and stressed by the time i get there, they make all sorts of mistakes due to nerves that they would never normally do.

Not in Bangkok

During my week at 1 company they made it an "Audit Festival" with all the trimmings, extra nice lunches, balloons, dancing, the big boss singing Issan love songs he didnt understand and a few beers for the older kids after 6.

As a result, everyone was relaxed, no-one made a silly mistake, and i completely murdered "Careless Whisper" on the last afternoon, to the amusement of all.

What makes Thai workers tick?

having fun, feeling good

thats the whole concept of Sanuk, right?

From my experience Thai business owners have exactly the same problems with their staff. The grass is not greener on the other side.

T

i learned not to ask "where do you see yourself in 5, or even 2 years?" very quickly

"Probably in some other job" was the usual reply

Edited May 8, 2011 by Jajazazajaja

[IanForbes]

What makes them "tick"?

A rather large, old fashioned clock I would imagine.

[Jajazazajaja]

If your staff doesn't respect you, they will walk all over you. If they do respect you they will be loyal and productive.

Truth.

WARNING: Generalizations to follow --

Speaking as someone who has worked here for decades, perhaps the most important (and in a way hardest) lesson I learned is that as Thailand is not an egalitarian society and that is ultimately not a traditional Thai ideal, nothing works right if you don't recognize the heirarchy -- not only when dealing with those who are (by thai standards) in a higher position than but also those "below" you. Treating someone lower on the ladder (and employee or whomever) too close to an equal will often confuse them and generally make them (consciously or not) lose respect for you. They might think you are a nice guy but they won't necessarily respect you.

And then you're screwed. (Especially since if you one day turn around and act differently, they are likely to resent it unless you are very skillful at making that change).

It was hard lesson to learn because of my own very dearly held ideals and those of the society I was brought up in. But it is the reality.

This doesn't mean you have to be cruel, insensitive or gratuitously harsh -- be kind when you can do so without being soft. But they MUST know there is a steel hand inside the velvet glove.

Also don't forget that fun is important. Be tough but (relatively) generous with things like trips, parties, and perhaps an occasional bonus.

if it's done right, they will look at you as almost a surrogate parent: to be loved but not to be trifled with. And then (the good ones or even just the OK ones) will be mostly loyal and hardworking

Yes, this too.

I have found it is very important, on occasion to "show power" as they put it. Not just at work, but in everyday life.

Smile and be nice and let it slide, but make sure that when the time comes, you are very much in charge and behind your affable veneer lurks a right git.

If those pesky kids are sat on your car downstairs, or the security guards are asleep outside your building, do as the Thais do, and go out there and tell them to eff off or wake up asap.

[bunta71]

Our cook has been with us for 7 years and is treated with dignity, respect, given responsibility and paid well. She shows up for work, works her butt off and is fiercely loyal.

Another staff has been with us only 5 years and is the same. Did we get lucky in hiring or is it some management style? Don't know but I do know that if you treat a person like a dog you will get bitten.

Have either one of them attempted to hide your whips?:jap: