What Makes Thai Staff/People Tick?

[chiangmaibruce]

Kuffki I seriously recommend this book;

Working with Thais: A guide to managing in Thailand

I think it will give you some of the answers you are looking for, it was recommended to me by a Thai person before opening my business in Thailand.

The book is an easy read, not too long, clear, concise and gives a great insight into the cultural issues at play in the work place that you won't be seeing but they are happening.

I would also recommend the book "How to start up and stay up in thailand" by roy tomizawa (Alpha Research are the publishers).

many interviews with non-thai employers ... about the same issues that the OP raises - it's also well-written

[zzaa09]

What makes them "tick"?

A rather large, old fashioned clock I would imagine.

Thai time, of course, would apply here........not so much the proverbial clocks.

[maswov]

I don't have experience as a business owner here, but people are people no matter where they were born. What you say about pay and what you offer and what they want, maybe its the negotiation, start low and let them ask for more and concede to that. In the end you pay what you originally wanted and they feel like they have won.

[Fookhaht]

Some of the problems i have encountered have been

-Staff just do not show up to work(not even a phone call)

Why do you keep them? Have you ever seen a Thai employer? ( they are normaly Thai-Chinese)

and they would not accept anything the like your are posting about.

Thats exactly the point! How do they "control " their staff?

What buttons they push or offers they make ?

One word: Intimidation (inspired, of course, by arrogance)

"Acceptable" methods used:

• heavy fining workers for being late
• salary penalties for sick days
• brutally long hours, 7 days a week
• requiring employees to attend functions after work hours (merit-making at temples, the boss's son's birthday party, etc.)
• constant threats to fire
• making workers pay for all job-related supplies/equipment (uniforms, cell phones, paper, printer ink)
• frequent "withdrawals" from their salary check (expenses for office parties, office maintenance, training, vehicle use, etc.)
• blacklisting of anyone who quits (even with notice)
• work-related transportation for job duties: employee provides vehicle, petrol/gas without compensation, or pays for public transportation (including taxi and car rental)
• withholding of promised annual bonuses, or shorting promised salary amounts
• illegal withholding of last paycheck upon termination
  
  We have hundreds of graduates from our school who go into the work world in Bangkok, working for Thai-Chinese bosses, and this is the constant feedback I get from our former students. Workers, especially Thais relatively new to the work force, are quite easily intimidated and these employers know it, and push it to the limit--no, over the limit. The management style does not inspire loyalty, only fear and loathing from workers who feel "stuck" in the job because nothing else is available or until they can get some experience under their belts to go elsewhere.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Fookhaht

[StreetCowboy]

Some of the problems i have encountered have been

-Staff just do not show up to work(not even a phone call)

Why do you keep them? Have you ever seen a Thai employer? ( they are normaly Thai-Chinese)

and they would not accept anything the like your are posting about.

Thats exactly the point! How do they "control " their staff?

What buttons they push or offers they make ?

Something must make local people tick to be good(sort of speak) employee.

PS. Pretty much all people i know (foreigners) who own or run business in Thailand have their staff for most of the time just not show up without any warning.

I guess if you treat your staff in a racist manner and lump together all your native staff, then they will find it difficult to work for you. All the local staff in my office were Thai, coincidentally enough, but that was the only thing that they had in common.

What makes Farang staff tick? How can I motivate them? I pay them three times what I pay all the other staff...

My suggestion would be to get to know your staff based on their personalities, not arbitrary racist demarcations - not that I'm criticising racism or bigotry - far from it! But if you want to get the best from people, unfortunately there is little alternative but to treat them as people - individuals, even, in some cases,

SC

[kerryk]

If your staff doesn't respect you, they will walk all over you. If they do respect you they will be loyal and productive.

Truth.

WARNING: Generalizations to follow --

Speaking as someone who has worked here for decades, perhaps the most important (and in a way hardest) lesson I learned is that as Thailand is not an egalitarian society and that is ultimately not a traditional Thai ideal, nothing works right if you don't recognize the heirarchy -- not only when dealing with those who are (by thai standards) in a higher position than but also those "below" you. Treating someone lower on the ladder (and employee or whomever) too close to an equal will often confuse them and generally make them (consciously or not) lose respect for you. They might think you are a nice guy but they won't necessarily respect you.

And then you're screwed. (Especially since if you one day turn around and act differently, they are likely to resent it unless you are very skillful at making that change).

It was hard lesson to learn because of my own very dearly held ideals and those of the society I was brought up in. But it is the reality.

This doesn't mean you have to be cruel, insensitive or gratuitously harsh -- be kind when you can do so without being soft. But they MUST know there is a steel hand inside the velvet glove.

Also don't forget that fun is important. Be tough but (relatively) generous with things like trips, parties, and perhaps an occasional bonus.

if it's done right, they will look at you as almost a surrogate parent: to be loved but not to be trifled with. And then (the good ones or even just the OK ones) will be mostly loyal and hardworking

There is so much to be learned from the two above posts. I don't know if it applies to large companies but I suspect it does. I also think it does not apply to business in the West. There is a distinctly Thai way of doing things that is native to Thailand and does not apply to China, Japan or Vietnam in the same degree.

For those who think people are people wherever you go the best documentation of that not being the case are the management studies of the Japanese and American automobile business. No it is not the same at all.

To bring it to a local level; the management of my condo is a good example. It is staffed by an owner, who basically sits around, drinks and plays guitar and makes babies. He springs into action if there is an emergency, like my AC going out. He manages a staff of two full time maids and one maintenance man. The maids 5000, maintenance man 6000 baht per month and free rooms. There are also some perks but they work 6 days a week 12 hours a day. I live in the South of Thailand and the condo staff is from Chiang Mai.

He has had the same staff for 5 years. Three weeks ago they gave him two weeks notice and left to go back to the farm. His wife who normally does nothing except make babies, she doesn't do much mother work as she has people for that, swung into action. The owner did not change his duties in light of no staff but his wife emptied the trash every day and did the work of the two maids until they were replaced.

I would have handled the whole thing differently. 1. I would have attempted to bribe the old staff with more money or something to convince them to stay. 2. I would have pitched in and helped with the work until new staff was hired. 3. I would have been a bit freaked out to lose all my long term staff at the same time. 4. I doubt if my Thai woman would have pitched in and done the work of two maids.

This owner is simply a better manager than I albeit in Thailand. Now we have a new staff and they seem fine. So what did the Thai owner/manager do? 1. He kept his distance from the staff and I assume wife and maintained a superior position. 2. He had a firm idea of what the job was worth and was not going to pay any more than that. 3. He has survived a 100% staff turnover with little if any loss of revenue or services to the tenants.

My thanks to Jdinasia, SteeleJoe and  Jajazazajaja  You have posted some very good information.

[JurgenG]

Our trick ? Cultural insensitivity !

Our office rules and regulation are based on accepted local rules and regulation. We set goal, if they are reached, people are paid, if they aren't, they are fired. People who work for foreign enterprises are really smart at playing the cultural card, in Thailand we do like this, in Thailand we don't do like that ... We don't care. We offer guidance but do the way you want. But if you can't reach the objectives for which you have been hired, you're fired. We reward goodwill and initiatives but if an employee start playing the racist, cultural card against the foreign management, he is fired on the spot.

We also have to be honest, a lot of foreign managers are managers mostly because they are foreigners but they have very poor skills for the function. Furthermore, they feel overwhelmed by the perceived cultural differences , so instead of giving instructions, they seek guidance and acceptance by their staff. Local employees are not stupid, they realize that and that's why so many foreign managers have problem to get respected.

[JurgenG]

For those who think people are people wherever you go the best documentation of that not being the case are the management studies of the Japanese and American automobile business. No it is not the same at all.

Are you referring to the " Machine that changed the world" ? It was 20 years ago but it's still good to remember that it is the Japanese who teach us quality so it always make me laugh when I see westerners criticizing the poor quality of the work done by Thai. Without the Japanese, we would not do better

[kerryk]

For those who think people are people wherever you go the best documentation of that not being the case are the management studies of the Japanese and American automobile business. No it is not the same at all.

Are you referring to the " Machine that changed the world" ? It was 20 years ago but it's still good to remember that it is the Japanese who teach us quality so it always make me laugh when I see westerners criticizing the poor quality of the work done by Thai. Without the Japanese, we would not do better

Actually I was referring to the discussions between theory X,Y and Z of management in worker motivation.

[Tonto21]

If your staff doesn't respect you, they will walk all over you. If they do respect you they will be loyal and productive.

If you have problems keeping staff, simply look at the management.

Sorryjdinasia, I don’t fully agree with you on this, IMHO, the modern Thai workforce don’t give a fig about you or about resect and honor, any more than kidsdo in the west, come-on we are not talking about high educated career orientated personnel, were talkingabout young Thai in the Thai labor market. Why do so many westerners buy intothis mystic east pants concerning the Thai youth. They like their counter partsin the west are out most nights getting wasted and laid and turn up at work togo thought the motions, OK, there are exception, the problem, (as an employer)is finding them.

[jdinasia]

If your staff doesn't respect you, they will walk all over you. If they do respect you they will be loyal and productive.

If you have problems keeping staff, simply look at the management.

Sorryjdinasia, I don't fully agree with you on this, IMHO, the modern Thai workforce don't give a fig about you or about resect and honor, any more than kidsdo in the west, come-on we are not talking about high educated career orientated personnel, were talkingabout young Thai in the Thai labor market. Why do so many westerners buy intothis mystic east pants concerning the Thai youth. They like their counter partsin the west are out most nights getting wasted and laid and turn up at work togo thought the motions, OK, there are exception, the problem, (as an employer)is finding them.

Your experiences may well differ, but I don't work in the entertainment*/hospitality/F&B business, and I find your viewpoint to not be valid at all in running a Thai company. I do believe that I have written in this thread about my experiences and they still hold as valid. Much of it depends on screening and the rest about the Sr. management being respected. You are of course welcome to your own opinions I think those of us that have not found keeping long-term staff and having them be productive all see things differently.

[JimmyTheMook]

This doesn't mean you have to be cruel, insensitive or gratuitously harsh -- be kind when you can do so without being soft. But they MUST know there is a steel hand inside the velvet glove.

This is quite true.

Lower type production/ laborer workers who would normally be very happily popping zits in a mirror need to be handled properly.

The Thai places I know of give new staff a warning checklist they must sign and when they start doing the F'off routine they are gone and the checklist provides some sort of labor law protection for the owners.

[IanForbes]

Apart from my flippant remark about a big clock, there have been some very informative, insightful comments on this thread. It should be required reading for anyone who expects to start a business in Thailand and hire staff.

[james24]

If your staff doesn't respect you, they will walk all over you. If they do respect you they will be loyal and productive.

If you have problems keeping staff, simply look at the management.

so far everyone has tried to rather criticize the management ie myself without even knowing my management style,

The whole idea of a thread is to find/discover/understand local culture to be able to make changes to have productive staff.

I can also name 100 reasons for staff to act out, respect etc etc etc.

Again what makes Thai staff tick? what makes them have respect? is it the money? is it their job title? is it their working conditions? is it the size of employers muscles?

Would be good to hear from other business owners to hear their opinion on the matter

I would say rather than a management fault. It is more man/person management skills that are needed. Either you have it or you don't.

jb1

But it is something you can definately learn. Some small easy changes can help alot. Read up on it, theres loads info out there

[Sing_Sling]

Chinese-Malays

Chinese-Malays? Wazzat?

If your staff doesn't respect you, they will walk all over you. If they do respect you they will be loyal and productive.

Truth.

WARNING: Generalizations to follow --

They might think you are a nice guy but they won't necessarily respect you.

And then you're screwed.

Very true. Many westerners come here with the same concept of employer/employee relations as at home, but that doesn't work in Thailand.

We found that out the hard way . . . I was working along the principle of 'don't expect someone to do something that you wouldn't do yourself' and was quite disappointed that the result was a lack of respect on my employees part. My wife altered that quite quickly - she is non Thai Chinese - not by being loud or brash but just by being strict. She says the Chinese have a saying for this kind of thing: Don't bow too low to others for they will shit on your head - or something similar.

Sp, what makes Thai workers tick? They need leaders.

[klikster]

For those who think people are people wherever you go the best documentation of that not being the case are the management studies of the Japanese and American automobile business. No it is not the same at all.

Are you referring to the " Machine that changed the world" ? It was 20 years ago but it's still good to remember that it is the Japanese who teach us quality so it always make me laugh when I see westerners criticizing the poor quality of the work done by Thai. Without the Japanese, we would not do better

JurgenG, the ghost of Peter Drucker may be around to haunt you any day now!

"As much as any company anywhere, Toyota Motor eagerly embraced many of the key principles that Peter Drucker first laid out in the 1940s and '50s: that corporations must move away from a "command and control" structure and cultivate a true spirit of teamwork at all levels; that line workers must adopt a managerial outlook and take responsibility for the quality of what they produce; that the enterprise must be steered by a clear set of objectives while giving each employee the autonomy to decide how to reach those results." .. source

[F1fanatic]

Chinese-Malays

Chinese-Malays? Wazzat?

If your staff doesn't respect you, they will walk all over you. If they do respect you they will be loyal and productive.

Truth.

WARNING: Generalizations to follow --

They might think you are a nice guy but they won't necessarily respect you.

And then you're screwed.

Very true. Many westerners come here with the same concept of employer/employee relations as at home, but that doesn't work in Thailand.

We found that out the hard way . . . I was working along the principle of 'don't expect someone to do something that you wouldn't do yourself' and was quite disappointed that the result was a lack of respect on my employees part. My wife altered that quite quickly - she is non Thai Chinese - not by being loud or brash but just by being strict. She says the Chinese have a saying for this kind of thing: Don't bow too low to others for they will shit on your head - or something similar.

Sp, what makes Thai workers tick? They need leaders.

V true. My brother used to run the dive centre of a top resort on Koh Phi Phi and told me that the only way to a) make the boat boys behave as they should and stay - was to treat them as if you were a strict parent. I was horrified at the time, but now understand what he meant.

Had to laugh though when he told me that there was a 'no smoking' policy on the dive boat. He knew that as a smoker I was not happy about this.... and so asked me not to smoke on the boat as the boat boys, considering me a VIP, would not dare say anything to me. BUT - he would 'lose face'.

Made no sense at all to me (at the time), but being a considerate sister I bought myself a rubber ring and would always 'launch' myself off the dive boat and have a cigarette whilst floating on my rubber ring . The boat boys loved it and my brother didn't 'lose face'.

[Movingon]

As a Thai staff in a foreign company.

1. Why we request more money compare to the same business owned by Thai operator?

-- Language

--Not all Thai can speak English and it even harder to find a Thai who can speak 3rd language like French, Japanese, Chinese, Arabic............and even harder for a professional who is bilingual, multilingual.........so this type of employee has power to negotiate with most of business.

2. Why Thai people easily change job when they get better offer?

-- Who won't? Security of life does matter, in many foreign companies they will not promote their staff, unless the staff has same nationality with the owner (though the owner is not even a person but "it" is just a transnation company)...........there are MANY. Since there is no career path so what we as a Thai do is "move on" to another company with the hope of secure position, welfare, big pay. brighter future, or many of them start their own business. Career path does matter and also job security.

3. From your problem "Some staff work 12 hour days 4 days per week and get 3 days off -every single week"

-- This is flexible issue, if u allow it to happen then it will continue. You have to check the company's work rules give them written warning if the rules allow you to do so............but if you have allowed them for too long this gonna be tough in case you want case you want to discharge them.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Movingon

[jdinasia]

But it is something you can definately learn. Some small easy changes can help alot. Read up on it, theres loads info out there

Some people can learn and adapt, some can't ... reading a book will not, on its own, make a good manager in Thailand.