Abuse Of Phuket Tourists: 'Bar Mafia’ Crackdown Looms

[BangTaoBoy]

Good luck to all of you who cannot stay out of trouble or get ripped off.

As you quite rightfully pointed out mate, I bet at least half of the posters on this thread have never been to Phuket. Half of that half (That's about one quarter) have probably never even been to Thailand, or at least not for more than 2 weeks.

As for the few who do actually go to Phuket, then as you say, we need to wish them good luck, because they're obviously not that good at travelling if they keep getting ripped off.

[maxelchey]

Why would anyone want to visit, let alone live, in a corrupt cesspool like Thailand ? Admit it guys, you are all there primarily for the culture.....bwaaahaaaahaaa.

Yes, I spent 12 months over a 3 year period living it up. But trust me guys, if you get back to civilization and get a REAL girlfriend your self-respect CAN be revived.

Agreed 100%.. it took me a while to realise i was fooling myself thinking Thailand was or could become my home (after 12 years... )

Face it people, you need a real civilized world but you are afraid to face the cost !

[BangTaoBoy]

Why would anyone want to visit, let alone live, in a corrupt cesspool like Thailand ? Admit it guys, you are all there primarily for the culture.....bwaaahaaaahaaa.

Yes, I spent 12 months over a 3 year period living it up. But trust me guys, if you get back to civilization and get a REAL girlfriend your self-respect CAN be revived.

Agreed 100%.. it took me a while to realise i was fooling myself thinking Thailand was or could become my home (after 12 years... )

Face it people, you need a real civilized world but you are afraid to face the cost !

Another couple of people who have left Thailand miles behind them in the past. Oh except for checking ThaiVisa daily that is. Other than that, they've moved completely on.

Yes, you're right. Everybody in Phuket would love to leave but they just can't face the cost. There's no wealthy people on Phuket at all. The hundreds of multi million pound houses and million pound yachts in the marinas are all figments of my imagination.

Do you not realise how tragic you sound, coming on a Phuket forum to tell everybody that you left Thailand years ago and would never go back, and it's all Phuket and Thailands fault. Nothing to do with the fact that it just wasn't right for you, and you just changed your mind? Grow up people for goodness sake.

[RigPig]

As usualy all news about Russians are getting filled with anti-russian xenophobic posts. All the kinds of stories are invented about brutal Russian mafia operating now in Thailand, Russians with German pasports and so on. Well, I am Russian and I will give you an insight on this which is closer to reality than some of those over exaggerated stories. Just a note: I am not a bar owner and do not own any businesses in Thailand at all. And I do not reside in Thailand currently. But I had lived in Thailand for over 6 months in Pattaya and several times visited Phuket. So I got to know some of the Russian business owners and know the story on the inside.

So here is the situation itself. As you all know the number of tourists from Russia to Thailand is growing every year and now is considerable part of the market. The majority of these tourists come from Siberia and the Russian Far East. These are people employed in the oil extracting, gold mining, wood cutting, heavy metal industries. They are not very educated bunch (and the level of English teaching is very low in Russia in general). They do not behave very well. But they earn very good money there. They spend a lot. They spend more than you. And for Thais it is "money number one". And you know it. You can compare them to some average worker from an industrial zone in the USA. Now think about this average guy and ask yourself how many languages this guy knows, and his manners. The only difference is that this guy probably doesn't go to Thailand because there are tons of places with warm climate in th USA. And travelling is likely beyond him in general.

The fact is that these Russian guys do not come to Thailand because it is Thailand. They come to the sea and the sun and to have great time in the warm climate. Thailand is the best option for them: no visa requirements, developed infrastructure, cheap, closer than Europe. So again: the majority doesn't come for sex, they do not come to see Thailand. They come to enjoy the warm climate, swim in the sea and eat tropical fruit.

Thailand and the Thai culture are really alien to them. They do not want to know anything about them, they do not like thai food, they do not understand menus in English, do not like Thai songs and so on. So they start seeking something familiar, the kind of entertainment and food they are used to at home. And here is where all the Russian bars and restaruants strive. If you pay attention to the Russian bars in Pattaya they do not have girls sitting there. They will have Russian food, a band singing Russian music, the waiters will speak Russian.

These bars charge more because this is what you pay for a beer or for food in Russia. It is sort of a tax for the Russian environment in the bar. Do customers know about the prices? Certainly. Why they do not go to another bar? Because they do not freaking speak English, they do not want to listen to the English songs and they do not want to know people there. They want the waiters to speak Russian to them they want their Russian native stuff and they are willing to pay for it.

As a result very often you can see that a Russian styled bar is filled while a Thai owned bar next door is almost empty with bored girls hopelesly trying to lure customers. This fact makes Thai owners angry especially during the low season. They believe that the Russian owned bars compete unfairly and lure all the customers to themselves. They start filing complaints with the police, threatening, inventing stuff. I talked to a Russian bar owner in Pattaya and he told me that there was a constant pressure from Thais who wanted him to share customers. And I can assure you that this owner guy is not related to any mafia. He is just an ordinary guy from Moscow who decided to move to Thailand and start his business there.

This crackdown is similar to what Tuk Tuk drivers were doing in Phuket when they complained that the Russian and western mafia were providing taxi services and the Tuk Tuks were not getting any customers. They even blocked one of the cruise liners in ports so that the passengers could go ashore. Mafia my ass. These are just normal businesses who know what their customers want and give it to them. Can thais play Russian music, have menu in Russian and can their waiters speak Russian? Russians just want to get for their buck the fun they like and not be forced into a Thai bar.

Wow this whole thread has gotten out of hand!

I have lived in Thailand for 8 years or so and the reason I stay here is simply because I have the freedoms I don't have where I come from (the place is irrelevant).

I have a shop in Kata and it looses money, I don't care, I pay taxes and everything is above board. I contribute to the society, my staff have a descent place to stay and they work for a living. It amazes me that people complain about high prices. Well the Baht is high and the Dollar is down, live with it.

Complaining about a 500 Baht ($15) tuk tuk fare from Kata to Patong, yeah it's high when you can get a taxi from the airport to Kata for the same price but how much is a taxi fare where you come from. The last time I went home it cost me $100, yes that's right, to go from the airport to the closest hotel to the Thai consulate, and it was no further than from the airport in Phuket to Kata !!!

Trust me there are hardly any tourists in Kata apart from Russians (and even they are scarce at the moment). I have worked in the Ukraine (I know it's not Russia) with a lot of Russians. I found the Ukrainians to be pleasant people and the Russians to be arrogant know it all's. I get paid $610 a day and they make big money at $1000 a month, but they knew more than me and that's why my company pays me what they do and flies me 1/2 way around the world. Because a Russian can do my job better. for 1/30th of the money, yeah right. My company loves to throw money away! Now I am not saying that Russians are stupid they are not but their attitude toward other people leaves a lot to be desired. They come over to Thailand on a package tour, all the money is spent before they leave the country. They go home with their "happy snaps" and have just elevated themselves up the social ladder. They buy bread, beer, and whatever from the local "7". Because they have to.

I had a Russian staying in one of my rooms for rent (great guy and well educated as most of them are) and he said to me, and I am quoting this as close as I can "they will buy a sandwich with plastic on it if it is 2 Baht cheaper than yours". Now I am not disparaging these people but it is simply a different type of customer. They are not Scandinavians, English, Australian what ever, they come from a different place. We are all products of where we came from.

Do you blame people (Thais) for trying to make as much as they can in a "high season" that only now lasts for 4 months of the year? What ever happened to free enterprise? Let the buyer beware according to Bill Gates,and I'll bet at least 80% of you are being ripped off happily by him.

I love Phuket and I have lived in places like Udon Thani, Nong Khai, Sahkon Nahkon, Khon Kaen..... It has a real infrastructure good hospitals, good (farang) shopping, beautiful beaches etc. It may be more expensive than the village in Isaan but hey I can eat the cuisine of the world at my doorstep for a lot less that my home country.

I am not rich (2 divorces saw to that) and I don't live here because I want to live like a Thai rice farmer, I live here because I can live like a King for far less than back "home". I rent a 3 bedroom 3 bathroom air conditioned "semi detached" type home for $600 a month that is 500 metres from what I consider to be one of the most pristine beaches in the world. The place was fully furnished but I had to get them to take things out because I have my own stuff. 8 years ago I was paying $250 a week for a place that was unfurnished and was nothing special, the nearest beach was 2 hours drive in good traffic.

if you don't like it then GTFO, lao tae khun. But this constant bitching has got to me tonight. I don't pay 300 Baht for a tee shirt, I don't get angry when they try to sell me a suit, I avoid tuk tuk's, I only go to massage parlors that give good massage and I understand that it is difficult to make enough to live on for 12 months when you only have 4 months of the year to do it in!

Phuket is commercialised but not as bad as say the Gold Coast in Australia, Florida in America, Majorca, Ibiza.......

Get the picture.....

Get a life, spend some money life is too short and you can't take it with you ( I know a man that is wealthy owns many properties won't spend a cent, has no kids and lives in what I would call misery, what's the point?)

Oh and on a side note regarding the other post, vodka in Ukraine is cheaper than bottled water and the best I have ever tried! I like my LBFMPBR's. How can anyone think the Russian Mafia are not involved with the "sale" of Russian (East European) girls duh!

The reasons most of us stay here are the same reasons most of us complain, well you can't have your cake and eat it !

SORRY but this got to me tonight. Live in the jungle if that's what you want but don't knock Phuket just take it or leave it, different horses for different courses. Show me somewhere with the same infrastructure, beaches, shopping and everything else it has to offer and I will move. The beach at Pattaya doesn't compare, the girls are cheaper and they have Baht buses that's it.

GOODNIGHT

Rig Pig

[moe666]

Why would anyone want to visit, let alone live, in a corrupt cesspool like Thailand ? Admit it guys, you are all there primarily for the culture.....bwaaahaaaahaaa.

Yes, I spent 12 months over a 3 year period living it up. But trust me guys, if you get back to civilization and get a REAL girlfriend your self-respect CAN be revived.

Agreed 100%.. it took me a while to realise i was fooling myself thinking Thailand was or could become my home (after 12 years... )

Face it people, you need a real civilized world but you are afraid to face the cost !

If you have left Thailand behind what are you both doing on a forum about Thailand and then bitching about it. I guess it just takes all kinds

[dom samui]

Very nice thread , i just lost 20mn to read it !

I hope all these scams , mafias storys abuses and so on can grow more and more and more in Phuket .

thats all they deserve now ; bad advertising .

It's so good for all the other lovely places in thailand that a place like this (phukt ) can focus all those scams and abuses !

Please keep on this way cose its so good for us in other places

[moskito]

I didn't realize that the TukTuk and Jet Ski mafia were farang.

Guess we know how things are working here in LofS ...blame it to the ALIENS, Foreigners or Farangs or whatever they may call them....

How it is possible anyway that there are sooooo many Russians around in Phuket WORKING in the Bar or Restaurant Business or dancing on poles???

I personally thought its forbidden for us to do any job a Thai National can do here? Our Police in Phuket is just so "BUSY" how can they take care of any

problem here except taking money from Farang without helmets? .... only in bright daylight they are visible btw...after the sun goes down they are

hiding somewhere, scared of all the youngster gangs wich do Motobike Racing without lights on the bigger roads...crowds of 50 young gangsters

an NO POLICE visible somewhere....THATS PHUKET....a good Place to become a future gangster and in the meantime the shitehole of the Andaman :jap:

[spidermike007]

As usualy all news about Russians are getting filled with anti-russian xenophobic posts. All the kinds of stories are invented about brutal Russian mafia operating now in Thailand, Russians with German pasports and so on. Well, I am Russian and I will give you an insight on this which is closer to reality than some of those over exaggerated stories. Just a note: I am not a bar owner and do not own any businesses in Thailand at all. And I do not reside in Thailand currently. But I had lived in Thailand for over 6 months in Pattaya and several times visited Phuket. So I got to know some of the Russian business owners and know the story on the inside.

So here is the situation itself. As you all know the number of tourists from Russia to Thailand is growing every year and now is considerable part of the market. The majority of these tourists come from Siberia and the Russian Far East. These are people employed in the oil extracting, gold mining, wood cutting, heavy metal industries. They are not very educated bunch (and the level of English teaching is very low in Russia in general). They do not behave very well. But they earn very good money there. They spend a lot. They spend more than you. And for Thais it is "money number one". And you know it. You can compare them to some average worker from an industrial zone in the USA. Now think about this average guy and ask yourself how many languages this guy knows, and his manners. The only difference is that this guy probably doesn't go to Thailand because there are tons of places with warm climate in th USA. And travelling is likely beyond him in general.

The fact is that these Russian guys do not come to Thailand because it is Thailand. They come to the sea and the sun and to have great time in the warm climate. Thailand is the best option for them: no visa requirements, developed infrastructure, cheap, closer than Europe. So again: the majority doesn't come for sex, they do not come to see Thailand. They come to enjoy the warm climate, swim in the sea and eat tropical fruit.

Thailand and the Thai culture are really alien to them. They do not want to know anything about them, they do not like thai food, they do not understand menus in English, do not like Thai songs and so on. So they start seeking something familiar, the kind of entertainment and food they are used to at home. And here is where all the Russian bars and restaruants strive. If you pay attention to the Russian bars in Pattaya they do not have girls sitting there. They will have Russian food, a band singing Russian music, the waiters will speak Russian.

yes, I agree. Wonderful post. Thank you for that. Great insight. Had no idea.

These bars charge more because this is what you pay for a beer or for food in Russia. It is sort of a tax for the Russian environment in the bar. Do customers know about the prices? Certainly. Why they do not go to another bar? Because they do not freaking speak English, they do not want to listen to the English songs and they do not want to know people there. They want the waiters to speak Russian to them they want their Russian native stuff and they are willing to pay for it.

As a result very often you can see that a Russian styled bar is filled while a Thai owned bar next door is almost empty with bored girls hopelesly trying to lure customers. This fact makes Thai owners angry especially during the low season. They believe that the Russian owned bars compete unfairly and lure all the customers to themselves. They start filing complaints with the police, threatening, inventing stuff. I talked to a Russian bar owner in Pattaya and he told me that there was a constant pressure from Thais who wanted him to share customers. And I can assure you that this owner guy is not related to any mafia. He is just an ordinary guy from Moscow who decided to move to Thailand and start his business there.

This crackdown is similar to what Tuk Tuk drivers were doing in Phuket when they complained that the Russian and western mafia were providing taxi services and the Tuk Tuks were not getting any customers. They even blocked one of the cruise liners in ports so that the passengers could go ashore. Mafia my ass. These are just normal businesses who know what their customers want and give it to them. Can thais play Russian music, have menu in Russian and can their waiters speak Russian? Russians just want to get for their buck the fun they like and not be forced into a Thai bar.

You get the prize for one of the most lucid and intelligent posts I have read in TVF in years. Hopefully, some readers will understand what you have written.

Thank you for this well written and thought out contribution.

Yes, I agree. Wonderful post. Thank you for that. Great insight. Had no idea. I admire alot about Russia, and it's people.

[spidermike007]

Why would anyone want to visit, let alone live, in a corrupt cesspool like Thailand ? Admit it guys, you are all there primarily for the culture.....bwaaahaaaahaaa.

Yes, I spent 12 months over a 3 year period living it up. But trust me guys, if you get back to civilization and get a REAL girlfriend your self-respect CAN be revived.

Agreed 100%.. it took me a while to realise i was fooling myself thinking Thailand was or could become my home (after 12 years... )

Face it people, you need a real civilized world but you are afraid to face the cost !

Another couple of people who have left Thailand miles behind them in the past. Oh except for checking ThaiVisa daily that is. Other than that, they've moved completely on.

Yes, you're right. Everybody in Phuket would love to leave but they just can't face the cost. There's no wealthy people on Phuket at all. The hundreds of multi million pound houses and million pound yachts in the marinas are all figments of my imagination.

Do you not realise how tragic you sound, coming on a Phuket forum to tell everybody that you left Thailand years ago and would never go back, and it's all Phuket and Thailands fault. Nothing to do with the fact that it just wasn't right for you, and you just changed your mind? Grow up people for goodness sake.

Yes, my heart goes out to those two. I am guessing it will be hard for them to find happiness anywhere. For some of us, Thailand is delightful. I adore many Thai people. Yes, I have issues, but that is the case anywhere. In America, where I spend alot of time, the culture, and society are nearly completely broken down. People are extremely unfulfilled, and have no idea how to remedy that. For those of us who have found a level of contentment, please do not begrudge us. Be happy for us.

[surayu]

Very nice thread , i just lost 20mn to read it !

I hope all these scams , mafias storys abuses and so on can grow more and more and more in Phuket .

thats all they deserve now ; bad advertising .

It's so good for all the other lovely places in thailand that a place like this (phukt ) can focus all those scams and abuses !

Please keep on this way cose its so good for us in other places

Dom i think you don't see the importance of this.

Pointing out at a problem, it's one of the first steps towards finding a solution for it, yes in this case it will likely create some loss, but what's the alternative to it? To keep it quiet and let even more people fell out on these scams? Then the scammers will feel even more confident to extend their tricks and do even worse.

We do need informations, we must have informations, are you thinking that all companies volounterely recalling their products or giving refund for something are just stupids ??? or fair and taking responsability for their mistakes?

I have to aknowledge that this way to see things unfortunately it's at a pandemic level, it's a pestilence of the 21st century, greed and irresponsability.

[moskito]

...........and lure all the customers to themselves. They start filing complaints with the police, threatening, inventing stuff. I talked to a Russian bar owner in Pattaya and he told me that there was a constant pressure from Thais who wanted him to share customers. And I can assure you that this owner guy is not related to any mafia. He is just an ordinary guy from Moscow who decided to move to Thailand and start his business there.

Thanks Vermut12, very good post and I guess it will help the community here to understand Russians a bit better.....the Thaibehaviour on SHARING CUSTOMERS ...was funny but I belive it as i know them (:

some but not most Russians in Phuket are the Russians you are describing in your post. We have a lot of (former) Russians from Estland and Litavia here in Phuket and they are

without a single exceptions I can remember, very nice people which often speaking English and in some cases also German....They are by far much better educated as the

most USAmericans I met here in Phuket and which NEVER speak another language than USAmerican English wich starts mostly with a F... and ends with a F... too

I hate these flaming posts about Russians and Russian Mafia...or German Mafia...thats crap anyway. After all one can say IF the Phuket Police and the Phuket Government is doing its job like it meant to be there is no problem at all....but the only Mafia in Phuket are the BiB by itself....always trying to fill their pockets and too lazy to work on the

real crime if they can take their share out. There are a lot of good Policemen in Phuket too but often outnumbered by the bad guys.....mean, they want but they cant :jap:

All we can HOPE for the future is Thailand will stick to its rules....there are enough and there is a law....only problem here is the guy behind it with a uniform with pockets....

no uniform should have ANY Pocket. :jap:

[Rumpole]

Another couple of people who have left Thailand miles behind them in the past. Oh except for checking ThaiVisa daily that is. Other than that, they've moved completely on.

If you have left Thailand behind what are you both doing on a forum about Thailand and then bitching about it. I guess it just takes all kinds

Some of us drop in here from time-to-time to remind ourselves why we left.

I left the Middle East quite some time ago too, but I am still interested in reading about what is happening there - from a variety of sources. It is called having an enquiring mind, a commodity which is admittedly in short supply in Thailand. Simply because one no longer resides in a particular location, does not mean that all curiosity, contact and memory of the place should be totally expunged.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Rumpole

[BangTaoBoy]

Another couple of people who have left Thailand miles behind them in the past. Oh except for checking ThaiVisa daily that is. Other than that, they've moved completely on.

If you have left Thailand behind what are you both doing on a forum about Thailand and then bitching about it. I guess it just takes all kinds

Some of us drop in here from time-to-time to remind ourselves why we left.

I left the Middle East quite some time ago too, but I am still interested in reading about what is happening there - from a variety of sources. It is called having an enquiring mind, a commodity which is admittedly in short supply in Thailand. Simply because one no longer resides in a particular location, does not mean that all curiosity, contact and memory of the place should be totally expunged.

There is a huge difference, between checking in somewhere to keep up to date on what's happening. Obviously your interest in a place doesn't need to end, just because you have moved on. That is not what we are talking about here.

People who have an irrational hatred for Phuket and Thailand in general, who come on to a Thailand/Phuket forum (regularly) just to tell others how much they hate the place and how much happier they are now, are highlighting, that quite obviously they are no that happy now, and weren't able t adapt to the way of life, and make themselves happy in Thailand either.

Lets face it. Are there enough hours in the day, that permit you so much free time, that you need to fill it by going on forums to slag places you used to live (but have now left behind, apparantly) off constantly, like a broken record. Each day would need to be 72 hours long before I would run out of better things to do, and would consider that as a suitable pass time.

You don't like Thailand. Please explain to me, why that makes it any more likely, that I or anyone else shouldn't like it either?

[Rumpole]

People who have an irrational hatred for Phuket and Thailand in general, who come on to a Thailand/Phuket forum (regularly) just to tell others how much they hate the place and how much happier they are now, are highlighting, that quite obviously they are no that happy now, and weren't able t adapt to the way of life, and make themselves happy in Thailand either.

That is quite a quantum leap; to suggest that reading a forum and posting an occasional comment which you happen to disagree with amounts to "an irrational hatred for Phuket and Thailand" and suggests that the poster is "quite obviously not that happy now, and wasn't able to adapt to the way of life, and make themselves happy in Thailand either." I congratulate you on your perception and psycho-analytical abilities. You quite obviously know me a lot better than I know myself.

Lets face it. Are there enough hours in the day, that permit you so much free time, that you need to fill it by going on forums to slag places you used to live (but have now left behind, apparantly) off constantly, like a broken record. Each day would need to be 72 hours long before I would run out of better things to do, and would consider that as a suitable pass time.

Am at a bit of a loss to understand why you should be so concerned about how other people pass their free time. Rest assured that I have not the slightest interest in how you elect to spend yours.

You don't like Thailand. Please explain to me, why that makes it any more likely, that I or anyone else shouldn't like it either?

Let me turn that around. You are happy and enjoy Thailand. Good for you. Others obviously do/did not. How are their experiences and perceptions any less valid than yours?

This is a discussion board, which by its very nature will attract diversity of opinion. People contemplating a move to Thailand, for whatever reason, come here seeking information and insights into what life for an expatriate is like. Is it your contention that every thread and post should reflect some sanitized TAT-style version of how Thailand should be perceived? I only wish that a resource such as this had been available when I first made the decision to work in Thailand. It would have given significant (and quite justifiable) pause for thought.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Rumpole

[BangTaoBoy]

People who have an irrational hatred for Phuket and Thailand in general, who come on to a Thailand/Phuket forum (regularly) just to tell others how much they hate the place and how much happier they are now, are highlighting, that quite obviously they are no that happy now, and weren't able t adapt to the way of life, and make themselves happy in Thailand either.

That is quite a quantum leap; to suggest that reading a forum and posting an occasional comment which you happen to disagree with amounts to "an irrational hatred for Phuket and Thailand" and suggests that the poster is "quite obviously not that happy now, and wasn't able to adapt to the way of life, and make themselves happy in Thailand either." I congratulate you on your perception and psycho-analytical abilities. You quite obviously know me a lot better than I know myself.

My comments were never directed at you were they. Keep up. I made my comments based on what two other poster have said. 'Maxelchey' & 'Boatman'. One of which was so inteligent, he suggested that I wanted every one to leave Thailand, so I could get a girl friend. Bright lad!!

You don't like Thailand. Please explain to me, why that makes it any more likely, that I or anyone else shouldn't like it either?

Let me turn that around. You are happy and enjoy Thailand. Good for you. Others obviously do/did not. How are their experiences and perceptions any less valid than yours?

This is a discussion board, which by its very nature will attract diversity of opinion. People contemplating a move to Thailand, for whatever reason, come here seeking information and insights into what life for an expatriate is like. Is it your contention that every thread and post should reflect some sanitized TAT-style version of how Thailand should be perceived? I only wish that a resource such as this had been available when I first made the decision to work in Thailand. It would have given significant (and quite justifiable) pause for thought.

It's not there experiences or perceptions I have issues with. Yes I am happy in Thailand, but when do you see me going out of my way to convince people that Thailand is great. Do I go out of my way to try and convince people to come to Thailand? Do I have an overpowering desire to speak good about Thailand? No I don't. That is the huge difference.

If you really think that someone, who would suggest, that I want every body to leave Thailand, so I can get myself a girlfriend (I've been married for over 10 years) is coming on this forum to spread his intelligent opinions, and to help others who may be considering coming here, then you are as big a fool as he is. There is a huge difference, as I have allready mentioned, between sharing you personal experiences, good and bad, and being an inadequate, who has a chip on his shoulder, probably traceable back to his own failings, when he was in Thailand. I can spot the difference from a mile away. anyone with an ounce of common sense can.

[maxelchey]

Another couple of people who have left Thailand miles behind them in the past. Oh except for checking ThaiVisa daily that is. Other than that, they've moved completely on.

If you have left Thailand behind what are you both doing on a forum about Thailand and then bitching about it. I guess it just takes all kinds

Some of us drop in here from time-to-time to remind ourselves why we left.

I left the Middle East quite some time ago too, but I am still interested in reading about what is happening there - from a variety of sources. It is called having an enquiring mind, a commodity which is admittedly in short supply in Thailand. Simply because one no longer resides in a particular location, does not mean that all curiosity, contact and memory of the place should be totally expunged.

Thank you Rumpole!

BangTaoBoy, from which planet are you coming from? Hanging out on forums and not knowing "email alerts"... you should consider spending some of your already-so-precious time focusing on some computer and internet updating workshop. Anyway, since all kind of ThaiVisa news arrive in my inbox every day, I quite and still enjoy ,although having left thailand a year ago, opening and reading the spicy subjects, like that one in particular. This is part of my open minded cultural backgroud and constant thirst for daily news fro; different horizon... so this story about Russian Mafia robbing tourists might have happened in Santa Cruz in Cuba, in Cebu in the Philipines or in Buzios in Brazil... I would still enjoy reading that article and learn something new about this crazy world we live in: Indeed, there some crazy easter europeans chavs who now have enough money to travel and settle in far away places... it fascinates me !

Now why I take the time to reply? since I lived for 12 years in Thailand, I think I am able to share my opinion and feel like I actually should provide that information - like Rumpole reminded it, this place as a community where others come to fish for information and find out more about the place from people who actually go or went through a similar experience-

Some people lived in Thailand and prefered to leave and comparatively, now enjoy their life in a western country more than they actually did in Thailand, yes, it's possible, try... you might be surprised! But be prepared, no cheap singha nore bikinis everywhere year round

[mickyboy]

Why would anyone want to visit, let alone live, in a corrupt cesspool like Thailand ? Admit it guys, you are all there primarily for the culture.....bwaaahaaaahaaa.

Yes, I spent 12 months over a 3 year period living it up. But trust me guys, if you get back to civilization and get a REAL girlfriend your self-respect CAN be revived.

sounds bitter i have a real wife who i been with for 6 years

you sound like you had a bar girl who took you for a ride both ways and then realised who and what she was upto

and yes they have a great culture and for me western fat women loud mouth drunks who show you up are not for me thankyou anyway good luck in the future hope you learned by your mistake put it behind you and start agian civilisation is that the western world as in the usa or europe where murder crime and drugs are 10 times worse

[BangTaoBoy]

Thank you Rumpole!

BangTaoBoy, from which planet are you coming from? Hanging out on forums and not knowing "email alerts"... you should consider spending some of your already-so-precious time focusing on some computer and internet updating workshop. Anyway, since all kind of ThaiVisa news arrive in my inbox every day, I quite and still enjoy ,although having left thailand a year ago, opening and reading the spicy subjects, like that one in particular. This is part of my open minded cultural backgroud and constant thirst for daily news fro; different horizon... so this story about Russian Mafia robbing tourists might have happened in Santa Cruz in Cuba, in Cebu in the Philipines or in Buzios in Brazil... I would still enjoy reading that article and learn something new about this crazy world we live in: Indeed, there some crazy easter europeans chavs who now have enough money to travel and settle in far away places... it fascinates me !

Now why I take the time to reply? since I lived for 12 years in Thailand, I think I am able to share my opinion and feel like I actually should provide that information - like Rumpole reminded it, this place as a community where others come to fish for information and find out more about the place from people who actually go or went through a similar experience-

Some people lived in Thailand and prefered to leave and comparatively, now enjoy their life in a western country more than they actually did in Thailand, yes, it's possible, try... you might be surprised! But be prepared, no cheap singha nore bikinis everywhere year round

I don't have any problem with what you just said, sounded reasonably intelligent to me.

However this statement, that you agreed with 100% was a crock of <deleted>.

Why would anyone want to visit, let alone live, in a corrupt cesspool like Thailand ? Admit it guys, you are all there primarily for the culture.....bwaaahaaaahaaa.

Yes, I spent 12 months over a 3 year period living it up. But trust me guys, if you get back to civilization and get a REAL girlfriend your self-respect CAN be revived.

This bloke thought Thailand was fine for 12 months while he was here, but now he's left, it's a 'corrupt cesspool' and now he's finished shagging whores for 12 months, he wants to lecture evrybody on self respect and getting a real girlfriend. This is what you call high brow, keeping up to date with the news around the world is it? Don't make me laugh.

After you agreed with him 100%, you added:

Agreed 100%.. it took me a while to realise i was fooling myself thinking Thailand was or could become my home (after 12 years... )

Face it people, you need a real civilized world but you are afraid to face the cost !

So your idea of keeping up with world issues, and intelligent debate, is telling people that they need to leave Thailland, but they can't because they can't afford to? Doesn't that reek of a bit of childish jealousy. Insinuating tens of thousands of people are all to poor to decide for themselves where they want to live. Some people might deduce form that, that you are describing your own circumstances??

Anyway are you really in a position to tell other people to leave the country it took you 12 years to decide you wanted to leave. Do you not realise how ridiculous that sounds? 'I lived there for 12 years, but now I've left, so you should as well, but you can't because you're all so poor' Yes very intelligent, way to keep up with world afairs mate.

P.S You did know you can turn that e-mail alert off right? It's not stuck on forever if you don't want it to be.

Edited May 22, 2011 by BangTaoBoy

[newtronbom]

As usualy all news about Russians are getting filled with anti-russian xenophobic posts. All the kinds of stories are invented about brutal Russian mafia operating now in Thailand, Russians with German pasports and so on. Well, I am Russian and I will give you an insight on this which is closer to reality than some of those over exaggerated stories. Just a note: I am not a bar owner and do not own any businesses in Thailand at all. And I do not reside in Thailand currently. But I had lived in Thailand for over 6 months in Pattaya and several times visited Phuket. So I got to know some of the Russian business owners and know the story on the inside.

So here is the situation itself. As you all know the number of tourists from Russia to Thailand is growing every year and now is considerable part of the market. The majority of these tourists come from Siberia and the Russian Far East. These are people employed in the oil extracting, gold mining, wood cutting, heavy metal industries. They are not very educated bunch (and the level of English teaching is very low in Russia in general). They do not behave very well. But they earn very good money there. They spend a lot. They spend more than you. And for Thais it is "money number one". And you know it. You can compare them to some average worker from an industrial zone in the USA. Now think about this average guy and ask yourself how many languages this guy knows, and his manners. The only difference is that this guy probably doesn't go to Thailand because there are tons of places with warm climate in th USA. And travelling is likely beyond him in general.

The fact is that these Russian guys do not come to Thailand because it is Thailand. They come to the sea and the sun and to have great time in the warm climate. Thailand is the best option for them: no visa requirements, developed infrastructure, cheap, closer than Europe. So again: the majority doesn't come for sex, they do not come to see Thailand. They come to enjoy the warm climate, swim in the sea and eat tropical fruit.

Thailand and the Thai culture are really alien to them. They do not want to know anything about them, they do not like thai food, they do not understand menus in English, do not like Thai songs and so on. So they start seeking something familiar, the kind of entertainment and food they are used to at home. And here is where all the Russian bars and restaruants strive. If you pay attention to the Russian bars in Pattaya they do not have girls sitting there. They will have Russian food, a band singing Russian music, the waiters will speak Russian.

These bars charge more because this is what you pay for a beer or for food in Russia. It is sort of a tax for the Russian environment in the bar. Do customers know about the prices? Certainly. Why they do not go to another bar? Because they do not freaking speak English, they do not want to listen to the English songs and they do not want to know people there. They want the waiters to speak Russian to them they want their Russian native stuff and they are willing to pay for it.

As a result very often you can see that a Russian styled bar is filled while a Thai owned bar next door is almost empty with bored girls hopelesly trying to lure customers. This fact makes Thai owners angry especially during the low season. They believe that the Russian owned bars compete unfairly and lure all the customers to themselves. They start filing complaints with the police, threatening, inventing stuff. I talked to a Russian bar owner in Pattaya and he told me that there was a constant pressure from Thais who wanted him to share customers. And I can assure you that this owner guy is not related to any mafia. He is just an ordinary guy from Moscow who decided to move to Thailand and start his business there.

This crackdown is similar to what Tuk Tuk drivers were doing in Phuket when they complained that the Russian and western mafia were providing taxi services and the Tuk Tuks were not getting any customers. They even blocked one of the cruise liners in ports so that the passengers could go ashore. Mafia my ass. These are just normal businesses who know what their customers want and give it to them. Can thais play Russian music, have menu in Russian and can their waiters speak Russian? Russians just want to get for their buck the fun they like and not be forced into a Thai bar.

Your post is, I have to agree, one of the better ones to be read on this forum, despite English not being your native language. The comparison of an average Russian tourist, to an American guy working on an "industrial zone" is a good one. While I am sure what you have written is probably accurate, it is still a fact that a number of your "countrymen" - even if as I am sure, that they are a minority of the visitors from Russia - do come out here to commit crime and act like animals and do atrocious things. I know others from many countries come for the same thing, but your guys are far more "organized" and take the meaning of "Mafia" to new heights! Activities like these will always make headlines and attract more attention, than a normal couple walking down the beach. The point I made in my other post on this thread, is one I make again. I and more than a few others, would like to work out how the Russian "mob" has gained such high up contacts and influence here, so much so, as to give many of them "virtual immunity" from the law. Their track record in other countries and their performance here, shows that once in, they are very hard to get rid of. Unfortunately, you and the many other good people coming out here from Russia, for a holiday or to do business, will be under suspicion and looked at badly. Hope you enjoy your stay here, all the same.

[SantiSuk]

Its a rare Day when i can agree with a Teacher. J.C. is spot on.:jap:

Thanks you now have a new friend

Teachers rarely get any thanks or recognition anywhere in the world

Possibly true amongst the urban poor of the world* (and maybe some immigrants to Thailand come from that strata), but I think this is a wildly inaccurate generalisation if you apply it across all societies.

*Certainly true of the British urban poor. Symptomatic of a rebellion against authority in an environment of under-privilege rather than innate evil. Yes I am a woolly liberal

[SantiSuk]

Dom i think you don't see the importance of this.

Pointing out at a problem, it's one of the first steps towards finding a solution for it, yes in this case it will likely create some loss, but what's the alternative to it? To keep it quiet and let even more people fell out on these scams? Then the scammers will feel even more confident to extend their tricks and do even worse.

We do need informations, we must have informations, are you thinking that all companies volounterely recalling their products or giving refund for something are just stupids ??? or fair and taking responsability for their mistakes?

I have to aknowledge that this way to see things unfortunately it's at a pandemic level, it's a pestilence of the 21st century, greed and irresponsibility.

This is hardly a 21st Century phenomenon. Mr average tourist (ie of the non-seasoned non-savvy variety) has been ripped off in high concentration tourist areas around the world ever since I was a lad and my Mum and Dad were charged 2 shillings and sixpence for a bag of peanuts (that would have cost tuppence in a normal shop) inTrafalgar Square London 1959 . The OP posting is about the biggest non-scam scam story I have read about Thailand.

Think I'll avoid Phuket now I know I might get charged double if I walk into the wrong bar and forget to ask the prices first (sarcasm).

Try going out for a night on the tiles in the wrong part of Berlin or Tokyo and end up waking up 24 hours later when the date rape drug wears off to find your wallet stripped and £1,000 plus on your credit card - now that's something to complain about! [My personal low spots of 20 years travel on business - Thailand is a pussycat in comparison].

[surayu]

The OP posting is about the biggest non-scam scam story I have read about Thailand.

So what are those situations for you then? just standard operating procedures? ....sorry, not in my world, a cheat is a cheat, no matter if it's back home, in my holiday destination or made by a black a white or a green, it doesn't change it.

You look way too comfortable (to my eyes) to this sort of stuff, then you compare pear with peas, we do have similar crimes in the west, but is it just me thinking that at least it will be someone there ready to deal with it? i don't remember any cases of banks making disappear your money and telling it was your fault and still operating as if nothing had taken place the next day, nobody taking responsability and no one doing anything apart from the victims, i am not starting to talk about the way the police deal with these situations to avoid you further embarassment, just have a read through the various threads and see what others are experiencing.

[BangTaoBoy]

This is hardly a 21st Century phenomenon. Mr average tourist (ie of the non-seasoned non-savvy variety) has been ripped off in high concentration tourist areas around the world ever since I was a lad and my Mum and Dad were charged 2 shillings and sixpence for a bag of peanuts (that would have cost tuppence in a normal shop) inTrafalgar Square London 1959 . The OP posting is about the biggest non-scam scam story I have read about Thailand.

Think I'll avoid Phuket now I know I might get charged double if I walk into the wrong bar and forget to ask the prices first (sarcasm).

Try going out for a night on the tiles in the wrong part of Berlin or Tokyo and end up waking up 24 hours later when the date rape drug wears off to find your wallet stripped and £1,000 plus on your credit card - now that's something to complain about! [My personal low spots of 20 years travel on business - Thailand is a pussycat in comparison].

Well said. People need to look at the big picture. If people think Thailand's that bad, then they haven't travelled very much.

[BangTaoBoy]

The OP posting is about the biggest non-scam scam story I have read about Thailand.

So what are those situations for you then? just standard operating procedures? ....sorry, not in my world, a cheat is a cheat, no matter if it's back home, in my holiday destination or made by a black a white or a green, it doesn't change it.

You look way too comfortable (to my eyes) to this sort of stuff, then you compare pear with peas, we do have similar crimes in the west, but is it just me thinking that at least it will be someone there ready to deal with it? i don't remember any cases of banks making disappear your money and telling it was your fault and still operating as if nothing had taken place the next day, nobody taking responsability and no one doing anything apart from the victims, i am not starting to talk about the way the police deal with these situations to avoid you further embarassment, just have a read through the various threads and see what others are experiencing.

The point is. If these things are normal the world over, then talking about it as if it was a Thai problem specifically, as so many people do, is misleading. Thailand is a developing country, if anything it should be judged less harshly than the west, but people seem to be even more critical than they are of their own develped country back West. Doesn't make any sense.

Everybody knows what Thailand and Phuket are about. It's all out there to be researched before you come. If it's not for you don't come. Otherwise you need to deal with it the way it is, just like any other country you go to.

[kiwikeith]

There is one bar in Patong that may fit this profile, in Patong, it has Russian girls pole dancing in it. There are a few go-go bars that do the big bill at the end scam just like Pattaya, Bangkok, Vegas, Soho etc etc, buyer beware.

A 'crackdown' is hardly required.

Well maybe thai police are color blind, what other reason can they not see that white girls are working in bars and black girls are soliciting in the streets in bangkok or maybe they teach english during the day or are students and are just having fun at night.

[surayu]

The point is. If these things are normal the world over, then talking about it as if it was a Thai problem specifically, as so many people do, is misleading. Thailand is a developing country, if anything it should be judged less harshly than the west, but people seem to be even more critical than they are of their own develped country back West. Doesn't make any sense.

Everybody knows what Thailand and Phuket are about. It's all out there to be researched before you come. If it's not for you don't come. Otherwise you need to deal with it the way it is, just like any other country you go to.

Well, i still don't see them as "normal", they might be widespread and sometime more likely to take place in a particular area at a particular time rather than another area or time, also the way things are dealt with is important too methinks.

I also don't think that people are more critical toward Thailand, probably you get this impression because the forum is about Thailand and only some very limited areas are allowed to not to talk about something related to Thailand, so it makes sense to me.

I have never been to Phuket, actually to be more precise, one day, coming back from a trip back home, the plane decided to make a landing there which wasn't what i paid or planned for, we have been "forced" to go at the passport control there, where the immo managed to mess up with the stamps, then we went back to the plane and restarted our journey to our original destination (Bangkok).

What is keeping me away from the place, are the many bad experiences and reports which i have no reasons to doubt, but i can only be gratefull to all those that have taken the time to share their experiences and sympathize with them, being glad i didn't had to go through all that mess (thank you guys!), apart from that, as i previously mentioned, i don't find right that all the good people on the island, have to suffer the comsequences created by those real crime syndacates which are operating there.

People should start to complain more, make your voices being heard, sometime people keep doing something because doesn't know any better, the more you are, the safer you will be.

I personally didn't know what sort of situations were taking place on the island, and as me i guess many others didn't know too, somebody discovered the bad side when it was too late, we are all contributing to create(more or less) the information that need to be finded out, if there are more bad experiences than good, please don't shoot at the messengers and aim perhaps at discovering why those problems happened on the first place and see what can be done to make it better (which doesn't mean pretend they don't exist and covering up everything....).

[BangTaoBoy]

Well, i still don't see them as "normal", they might be widespread and sometime more likely to take place in a particular area at a particular time rather than another area or time, also the way things are dealt with is important too methinks.

I also don't think that people are more critical toward Thailand, probably you get this impression because the forum is about Thailand and only some very limited areas are allowed to not to talk about something related to Thailand, so it makes sense to me.

I have never been to Phuket, actually to be more precise, one day, coming back from a trip back home, the plane decided to make a landing there which wasn't what i paid or planned for, we have been "forced" to go at the passport control there, where the immo managed to mess up with the stamps, then we went back to the plane and restarted our journey to our original destination (Bangkok).

What is keeping me away from the place, are the many bad experiences and reports which i have no reasons to doubt, but i can only be gratefull to all those that have taken the time to share their experiences and sympathize with them, being glad i didn't had to go through all that mess (thank you guys!), apart from that, as i previously mentioned, i don't find right that all the good people on the island, have to suffer the comsequences created by those real crime syndacates which are operating there.

People should start to complain more, make your voices being heard, sometime people keep doing something because doesn't know any better, the more you are, the safer you will be.

I personally didn't know what sort of situations were taking place on the island, and as me i guess many others didn't know too, somebody discovered the bad side when it was too late, we are all contributing to create(more or less) the information that need to be finded out, if there are more bad experiences than good, please don't shoot at the messengers and aim perhaps at discovering why those problems happened on the first place and see what can be done to make it better (which doesn't mean pretend they don't exist and covering up everything....).

I completely rest my case. You've never even been here You aren't going to go somewhere, purely on the hear say of forum users and the media?? Don't you realise you are just one of millions that regurgitate second hand information, to the point people are prepared to accept everything they read as gospel, and even base their decisions on it.

Grow a pair mate, and make your decisions based on your own personal experiences. These forums would be a lot more accurate and usefull if everybody did!

[surayu]

Grow a pair mate, and make your decisions based on your own personal experiences. These forums would be a lot more accurate and usefull if everybody did!

Right, that was a really macho reply but don't you think that people should be better off using the brain rather then their own genitalia to think? mmmhh yes i see the high consideration you have of this forum and his users, by claiming everything you have not experienced first hand it must to be a "bullthing" and not real, why do you keep reading it if you think it's all fake? or is it not real just when it doesn't match your likeing?

[BangTaoBoy]

Grow a pair mate, and make your decisions based on your own personal experiences. These forums would be a lot more accurate and usefull if everybody did!

Right, that was a really macho reply but don't you think that people should be better off using the brain rather then their own genitalia to think? mmmhh yes i see the high consideration you have of this forum and his users, by claiming everything you have not experienced first hand it must to be a "bullthing" and not real, why do you keep reading it if you think it's all fake? or is it not real just when it doesn't match your likeing?

Mmmm let me think. Oh yeh, I read the Phuket forum because I live in Phuket. I discuss things I know about FIRST hand. And you're here because..........? Because you wanted to mimic what other people have said, other people who have never been to Phuket either.

Anyway haven't you just done the same. Decided to believe what you want to believe and declare that the rest is wrong? At least my one sided opinions are based on personal knowledge. You're guilty of doing the exact same as you criticise me for, except you're doing it entirely based on hear say.

Edited May 23, 2011 by BangTaoBoy

[stevo52]

Obviously you know nothing about the mega-rich Russians that actually do stay in 5-star resorts in Phuket.

Or, the many Russians that are keeping the high end property market alive in Phuket.

Do you actually live in Phuket? Don't think you do.

Mega rich Russians Where are they ?? ( all smoke and mirrors my friend ) no i don't live in phuket ( to much of a slime pit for me to many dirty old westerners ) i have a place in RAYONG not so far from Bangkok MEGA RICH ARE ALL CRAP !

I never seen many in Russia or Thailand never --- not since 2004 thats for sure --the other chap on here commented i must live Chechnya or such when in Russia -----------well he is not far wrong at times I'm only 200 miles from that area!

when i' m not in that area, I'm in Krasnodar southern Russia full of gangsters / crime ''i love it '' bit of adventure but dead poor absolutely dead poor more poor than a Russian PENSIONER ! dangerous with a capitol D BUT HEY!!!! thats half the fun

keeps you on your toes -- you got to die of something'' ---who cares where it is ???( Russians i lived with have --no hope of seeing $200 a month in life, i live remote ) - and as remote as i can get!

( thats where you find the real non - polluted people ) no pc's no plastic cars no crap mobiles - they still think Stalins in charge -- and Menzies is still the boss in Australia lol ---------they are unpolluted !

when I'm not in krashnadour then i take a wander to Ortensia / Georgia --- Watch em take pot shots at each other --hey at least i get a good movie to send home to the rellies ! i love those deadly areas = great fun! the poorer the better for me !

i can afford afford to live 4 star forever ( I'm not interested in kissing paper money does nothing for me i don't worship the dollar ) -4 star 5 star life is yawn territory """ --- and how boring ! yuk all the snobs and stuffed shirts --------------the out of touch folk !

oh god sake no thanks lol all the pollie correct losers = no thanks ! they have heart attacks worrying about their money ! thats not living !!!!!!

THERE IS MEGA RICH IN THESE COUNTRIES YES and when they do the decent thing, roll down the main street in their limos ------- tossing buckets of money out the windows to the poor ''daily '' then they'll get my vote ! because in reality the rich

only ever got rich because they stole it from the poor !! -------------ask any financial adviser !!!!!! tiss fact eh!

Show me a rich Russian that made his 5 million honestly ?????????? ( can't find any huh !!) Or a rich Thai for that matter !!!!----------------yes i see the eyes opening !!!!------------ ''this blokes right you know ''

of course I'm right --- gee daffy duck could see that ------- the rich thieves should be made at gunpoint, to lavish their funds upon the poor - ohh yes ! wish i had the power I'd happily make it happen!