gbswales Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Culture Minister Niphit Intharasombat ought to get a life and start worrying about something that actually matters... Thinking! only about how stupid the whole thing is! - why oh why is Thailand determined to make itself the laughing stock of the world if foreigners or nationals choose to respect or disrespect any religion it is between them and whichever divinity they choose to believe in. If every decision is made on the basis of who or who it may not offend then no one will do anything. I get offended by people proclaiming their belief in a non existant being BUT I do uphold their right to do so. The tourist chief needs to roll up his sleeves and deal with the criminals and rip off merchants who plague tourists day in day out. The fact about tourism is that if you want to make money out of it then you have to accept to a large extent what comes with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunken Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 What next? Silly walks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dressedingreen Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 What next, one wonders? Having to cover Buddhist tattoos before entering a gogo bar of ill repute? Banning westerners from purchasing Buddhist religious icons because they may be resold at a profit? Perhaps accompanying one's wife/girlfriend to the local wat, in case we walk around with our fingers crossed? I never quite imagined fundamentalist Buddhism would ever hit the streets. Methinks Khun Intharasombat may do well to acquaint himself with the word 'priority', instead of trying to find silly little things to do between Pandan tea breaks. DIG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REM Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Better get your tattoos before someone else tells you what you can and can't do!!!!! Tattoo shops should offer discounts from now until the day the law is passed!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjohnno Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Culture Minister Niphit Intharasombat ought to get a life and start worrying about something that actually matters... Thinking! only about how stupid the whole thing is! - why oh why is Thailand determined to make itself the laughing stock of the world if foreigners or nationals choose to respect or disrespect any religion it is between them and whichever divinity they choose to believe in. If every decision is made on the basis of who or who it may not offend then no one will do anything. I get offended by people proclaiming their belief in a non existant being BUT I do uphold their right to do so. The tourist chief needs to roll up his sleeves and deal with the criminals and rip off merchants who plague tourists day in day out. The fact about tourism is that if you want to make money out of it then you have to accept to a large extent what comes with it. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atsiii Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 It seems interesting that nobody has touched on the fact that this proposal is blatantly racist. There is no mention of restricting religious tattoos on Thais, only on farangs; as if there is no such thing as farang Buddhists. When you propose restrictive laws aimed at one race or ethnicity alone, that is racist--pure and simple. It is actually quite frightening that these kinds of proposals can even be presented with a straight face--and then actually debated. And finally, if "they" are so concerned that someone sporting a Buddhist tattoo might be seen drinking (or course they have trouble differentiating between Buddhist and Hindu tattoos!), then why do they tolerate Buddhist Monks seen smoking, sometimes drinking, playing with their iPhones, etc.? Buddha forbid that a "farang monk" be seen smoking--he would probably be crucified!! Not because he is a monk demonstrating addictive behavior in public... but only because he is a farang. For a farang with a small guesthouse that spends 7 months a year in Thailand, it is a frightening politically racist atmosphere today. One last question for the forum: how is this "proposal" any less racist and unbelievable than was the Thai Visa April Fool's Day prank of "proposing" that marriage rights of farangs over 50 would be restricted? Are not both proposals simply peas in a racist pod? So why is one a joke; while the other one is seriously proposed by Thai politicians and "cultural morality servants?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon467367354 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Can we expect a crackdown on Thais having Nazi images tattooed...? [quote name=Beetlejuice' timestamp='1306938295' Yes, nice one. I have thought about this for many years. Many people find Nazi style regalia and tattoos as offensive and even intimidating in some cases, however much they try to claim that it`s all done in naivety and innocence. Do you mean explicitly Nazi images or do you mean a Swastika? I've not seen any of the former tattooed on Thais -- have you? The swastika comes from this part of the world, thousands of years before the National Socialists, and only has any association with them because they appropriated it. It does however have an ancient association with Buddhism (and Jainism and Hindusim). The Buddhist symbol sits "flat" and the nazi swastika is "vertical", and yes i have seen many of these 'vertical' or "tipped on their sides" nazi swastikas in black with a red circle background. big difference! I'm thinking the Buddhist image of the "swastika" points the other direction as well. not worth the effort to google it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchcaptainbob Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Culture Minister Niphit Intharasombat ought to get a life and start worrying about something that actually matters... He has a life, a holier then thou life. I'm not an expert on any religion but the feeling I get when asking, "what would Jesus do?" Or "What would Buddha say?" in a true gospel/dhamma orthodox sense, the Buddha would say just like it's in the scorpions nature to sting, it is in a poseurs nature to pose. The Difference for human beings, whatever seen from Christianity or Buddism, is we are supposed to get BRAINS and use them.Do you see any brains in this "tatoo story". I can hardly believe this is in REAL WORLD... Or is it just the last invention to keep FOREIGNERS AT BAY, from Thailand ? Want to forward that story ( and others ) to the New York Times ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonypace02 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Culture Minister Niphit Intharasombat ought to get a life and start worrying about something that actually matters... This is Thailand. Culturally, nothing actually matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james24 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Has this guy gone absolutely mad...???? What about all the bar girls that have these type of tattoos not to mention how monks are portrayed on tv sometimes... To be honest Im not surprised it comes from Phuket, another reason to stop and charge a fine, I can see it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyserSoze01 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Thank God I'm an atheist! How can you thank God if you're an atheist ? God does not exist for you ! Cultural euphemism. I catch myself doing it ever so often after years of religious dogma being ingrained in one's psyche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Can we expect a crackdown on Thais having Nazi images tattooed...? [quote name=Beetlejuice' timestamp='1306938295' Yes, nice one. I have thought about this for many years. Many people find Nazi style regalia and tattoos as offensive and even intimidating in some cases, however much they try to claim that it`s all done in naivety and innocence. Do you mean explicitly Nazi images or do you mean a Swastika? I've not seen any of the former tattooed on Thais -- have you? The swastika comes from this part of the world, thousands of years before the National Socialists, and only has any association with them because they appropriated it. It does however have an ancient association with Buddhism (and Jainism and Hindusim). In answer to your question; yes I have. And I have also seen some Thai men and farangs wearing Nazi style WW2 type motor bike helmets with Swastika stickers on them. But to be honest, you can believe what you like, as I don`t really care enough to make an argument out of this, so I`m going to have another beer and forget all about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Can we expect a crackdown on Thais having Nazi images tattooed...? [quote name=Beetlejuice' timestamp='1306938295' Yes, nice one. I have thought about this for many years. Many people find Nazi style regalia and tattoos as offensive and even intimidating in some cases, however much they try to claim that it`s all done in naivety and innocence. Do you mean explicitly Nazi images or do you mean a Swastika? I've not seen any of the former tattooed on Thais -- have you? The swastika comes from this part of the world, thousands of years before the National Socialists, and only has any association with them because they appropriated it. It does however have an ancient association with Buddhism (and Jainism and Hindusim). The Buddhist symbol sits "flat" and the nazi swastika is "vertical", and yes i have seen many of these 'vertical' or "tipped on their sides" nazi swastikas in black with a red circle background. big difference! I'm thinking the Buddhist image of the "swastika" points the other direction as well. not worth the effort to google it. If you think it not worth the effort to google your claim, then why make it? Don't know what you mean about flat vs vertical. What about these reportedly from the Indus valley? And my question was about Nazi tattoos (ie tilted on axis with in black with a red circle background). I've never seen any on Thais. As for the Nazi images -- it's appalling but it stems from ignorance and the fact that the Svastika has such ancient roots in this region. And they can "point" both ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris7070 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Can we expect a crackdown on Thais having Nazi images tattooed...? Really!!! Thais do not have swastika tattoos.The Nazi's adopted this great Buddha sign and called it there own and reversed it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacknorman Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Can we expect a crackdown on Thais having Nazi images tattooed...? Good on, or t.shirts sold openly at eany market or MBK in BKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 In answer to your question; yes I have. And I have also seen some Thai men and farangs wearing Nazi style WW2 type motor bike helmets with Swastika stickers on them. But to be honest, you can believe what you like, as I don`t really care enough to make an argument out of this, so I`m going to have another beer and forget all about it. Yes, indeed, I can believe what I like. In well over 2 decades of living here I've not seen any such tattoos, and I admit I'm doubtful of your claim. I have seen the stickers/helmets you speak of -- they could also be seen in North America in the 60s and 70s (especially with biker rgealia -- and there's historical context for that too) -- on people who should have far more awareness of the historical significance in Europe and who had no ancient cultural ties with it. But I already acknowledged the presence of Nazi symbols, given reasons for it, and stated how appalling I thought it was: I was asking about tattoos. It's convenient that you care just enough to make a claim, refuse to accept correction and then leave. Enjoy your beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zthyadat Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 i like this debate.. he has some points.. either way, it gets people thinking. What points would those be? That the Ministers of Culture seem to be misguided fanatics with a knack for attempting to legislate against things they have no business (and no means of) controlling? That because they see tattoos as some low form of expression that those who get tattoos are not sincere in what they are expressing and must comply with an ignorant minister's outlook? I would imagine, for example, that anyone who gets an image of Christ tattooed on their body probably believes themselves to be a Christian. Who is the minister, in all his wisdom, to assume that they are not? Is this country being run by the Taliban? This is supposed to be a secular state. And under the constitution, the law is not allowed to discriminate on the basis of national origin except for the purposes of immigration and labour enforcement and property ownership. What if I personally find religious imagery offensive because as an atheist it goes against my beliefs? Why is my right not to be offended by the beliefs of others not protected by banning relgious iconography entirely? If someone's faith in their religion is so delicate as to be eroded by seeing someone else with a religious icon tattooed on their body, then it has little real value in the first place. The proposal is ridiculous in the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upena Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Before it was titties now tatties - Culture Minister needs to get a life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Can we expect a crackdown on Thais having Nazi images tattooed...? Good on, or t.shirts sold openly at eany market or MBK in BKK Because these Cultural Ministry twits proffess concern about the damage done to the image of Buddhism, they should also care about stupid people wearing Nazi symbols? Why? They should worry about damage done to the image of Nazis? Or the image of stupid people? I don't follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyBkk Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Since when has Tawanna been a tourist destination ?? I passed a tattoo shop in the Kao San road recently and noticed a sign saying "No images of the load Buddha will be tattooed below a clients waist" This seems more appropriate than banning the practice altogether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjohnno Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Good on, or t.shirts sold openly at eany market or MBK in BKK Or t-shirts I had made here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Or t-shirts I had made here? GASP! But why no symbol relating to Buddhism (or Hinduism) on it? (Can't help but wonder if it's because for some of us Western non-believers, perhaps like yourself, Eastern religions are cool. Like fisherman pants and other groovy SEA icons!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaowong1 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 serious?????????? does Thailand Government own buidism??? they seam to think so../. but I guess it's the biggest business in Thailand (most likely). I am staying at a Thai Theravada temple in Phoenix, Arizona. And yes, Thai's think they own Buddhism. They actually don't like it much when Americans come to the temple. They also don't like it much, when we are holding a Buddhist ceremony at the temple and I explain in English to the Americans what's going on. Most of them think that if the Americans want to know what's going on, they should learn to speak and read Thai. In the US of A no less. But, if you remember, a few years ago, they tried to make Buddhism the national religion in Thailand, it didn't pass. So I guess what it all boils down to is, let's see if we (Thailand) can come up with another way of fleecing the farangs. But if you think the Thai's are bad, go to Sri Lanka.. Man, they've lost their mind there when it comes to the Buddhist religion. Sri Lanka and Buddhism is getting as bad there as the Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffer Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 The whole debate simple buggers belief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffer Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I am staying at a Thai Theravada temple in Phoenix, Arizona. And yes, Thai's think they own Buddhism. They actually don't like it much when Americans come to the temple. They also don't like it much, when we are holding a Buddhist ceremony at the temple and I explain in English to the Americans what's going on. Most of them think that if the Americans want to know what's going on, they should learn to speak and read Thai. In the US of A no less. But, if you remember, a few years ago, they tried to make Buddhism the national religion in Thailand, it didn't pass. So I guess what it all boils down to is, let's see if we (Thailand) can come up with another way of fleecing the farangs. But if you think the Thai's are bad, go to Sri Lanka.. Man, they've lost their mind there when it comes to the Buddhist religion. Sri Lanka and Buddhism is getting as bad there as the Muslims. Or learn Pali even.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atyclb Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Thank God I'm an atheist! How can you thank God if you're an atheist ? God does not exist for you ! That is why what he said is extremely funny in a clever and witty fashion; should be a sticky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atyclb Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 There was a thread at pantip dot com forum in which someone from the MOC pissed off enough people that members of the MOC issued a public apology. You will have to search for thread (not in english) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skate1047 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Just about every Thai guy in our village has some 'lucky' religious tattoo somewhere on his body. Alot of them done at the local wat. I wonder if the proposed law banning religious images on the body is intended for both farang and Thais? I'd imagine you're referring to bamboo tattoos. I can't imagine they're banning these as they're generally blessed by monks. Alot of monks have them aswell. I'm sure they're banning the religious tattoos people get via gun in a parlour... As for this being purely against farangs... I don't think Thais generally get tattoos like this of religious figures in the first place... Are they banning all religious depictions - Jesus and the lot. If so, it's not a matter of farangs coming in and defacing THEIR religion (buddhism) - just the act in general. PS. I know that Buddhim is not THEIR religion - so don't jump on me for it. But, you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 As a Theravada Buddhist of European descent, I find the statements and racial overtones in this article to be immensely disturbing for all of the glaringly obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atyclb Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 serious?????????? does Thailand Government own buidism??? they seam to think so../. but I guess it's the biggest business in Thailand (most likely). I am staying at a Thai Theravada temple in Phoenix, Arizona. And yes, Thai's think they own Buddhism. They actually don't like it much when Americans come to the temple. They also don't like it much, when we are holding a Buddhist ceremony at the temple and I explain in English to the Americans what's going on. Most of them think that if the Americans want to know what's going on, they should learn to speak and read Thai. In the US of A no less. But, if you remember, a few years ago, they tried to make Buddhism the national religion in Thailand, it didn't pass. So I guess what it all boils down to is, let's see if we (Thailand) can come up with another way of fleecing the farangs. But if you think the Thai's are bad, go to Sri Lanka.. Man, they've lost their mind there when it comes to the Buddhist religion. Sri Lanka and Buddhism is getting as bad there as the Muslims. They should petition the ICJ to rule/clarify that Guatama was really born/from in Lumpini, BKK, and not Lumbini, Nepal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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