Crackdown Ordered On Religious Tattoos In Phuket

[skate1047]

To the Nazi comment - it was used in eastern religions far before Hitler's crap... "The swastika (Sanskrit: स्वस्तिक) is an equilateral cross with its arms bent at right angles, in either right-facing (卐) form or its mirrored left-facing (卍) form. Earliest archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates back to the Indus Valley Civilization of Ancient India as well as Classical Antiquity. It remains widely used in Indian Religions, specifically in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism." - source Wikipedia.

To the cool eastern religion comment.. the draw of eastern religions is the more open minded way of believing - I just can't stand the believers of religion on the western side of the world(I know that's a broad brush.. but from what I have been exposed to here I can't help it..). Even in the Phillipines which is by majority Catholic - it is believed in an open minded way - something I could definitlely get behind.

[mrjohnno]

GASP!

But why no symbol relating to Buddhism (or Hinduism) on it?

(Can't help but wonder if it's because for some of us Western non-believers, perhaps like yourself, Eastern religions are cool. Like fisherman pants and other groovy SEA icons!)

It's a very good question which requires me to open a bottle Chang to answer. Buddhism is not a religion for the most part, just a way of life or an idology. Being that I live in Thailand it would not be a good idea to include this anyway. Hinduism is not included due to lack of space to be honest. I do have another one which I wear from time to time but not when I go to the Malaysian visa run.

[PingManDan]

Really don't these stupid asses have anything else to do with their time, then to think of crap like this is ridiculous, they ought to worry more about my tattoo pictured here , ok well they won't let me show you mine, guess we have the same people working for Thai Visa

Edited June 1, 2011 by PingManDan

[mrjohnno]

Sorry I cannot show the front 'skate' but it advertises my site and would go against forum rules. Running a forum myself I understand the need to keep to the site rules so will do so.

[JoshuaCaleb]

What is the likelihood of such a law actually passing?

A person could argue that banning religious tattoos or fining people who have them apparent as a hindrance to tourism--> an economic barrier.

Regarding jewelry, many people might see banning it for commercial purposes as a problem as well. There are many people that wear it to actually profess their beliefs, and they do not always make them, but they buy them from somebody. This can effect people in work situations and other situations as well. How many people wear them in Thailand generally?

I have a Christian-themed tattoo on my right shoulder, and for me it is a significant meaning. However, I usually dress in a way that covers it up. but what about possibilities of needing to uncover it, for whatever reason?

Is this really a law to protect modesty and religious reputations? Why are two laws that affect religious expression being proposed simultaneously?

[EnhancePlus]

I'm all for freedom of expression, but personally I think tattoos are just body graffitti. Doesn't it state somewhere that I person cannot take an image of buddha out of thailand?

Some say having tatts exhibits there unique personality? Well, how about invoking an interesting conversation to show your personality? When every Dick and Jane is all marked like a NYC alley I can't really see the uniqueness of one's self when they all look the same.

Y'know I kinda like a woman's skin pure and natural

Edited June 1, 2011 by EnhancePlus

[mrjohnno]

What they going to do if someone gets shot because they had an image of Mohammed tattoo'd anywhere on their body in the South of Thailand? I'm not trying to hoist my own flag but I've been dealing with this for many many years, anybody what to question my credentials then go ahead. If the police arrest the shooter (who was only doing his religious duty) then all hell is going to break loose. If they don't arrest the shooter then how are the rest of the Thai's going to feel? Double standards? You bet ya they will and rightly so too.

[FarangJon]

Is there any crackdown we didn´t have yet?

[mrjohnno]

As a Theravada Buddhist of European descent, I find the statements and racial overtones in this article to be immensely disturbing for all of the glaringly obvious reasons.

Religion or religious belief is not a race so game over my friend.

[mrjohnno]

Is there any crackdown we didn´t have yet?

Beer?

[peridot]

It would be more effective for the Public Health Ministry to close down all the tatoo shops on health grounds as they are high risk places for catching HIV. How can customers be sure they don't re-use the needles to save a few baht?

Tattoos pose no risk of getting HIV. No risk, zero. Even the US CDC admits this: "The CDC summary data about tattooing and HIV is as brief as it is dramatic. In its HIV/AIDS Surveillance Reports, CDC has consistently noted that it has documented "no cases of HIV transmission through tattooing" anywhere in the country since it began tracking such data in 1985."

A tattoo needle may pose a slight risk of passing hepatitis, but not HIV or AIDS. Tthe CDC found 12 cases of transmission of hepatitis (out of 13,000) associated with tattoo studios. They found 43 cases of hepatitis associated with dental offices, so going to the dentist is much more of a risk than getting a tattoo.

[crazyswede]

I think i know what they mean!

[Stevenredd]

We have people dying in hotels from toxic pesticide banned in other countries and crises abounding, but religious tattoos are this important. hmm....still debating my extended presence here.

[beammeup]

I think i know what they mean!

I find this thread depressing. A friend of mind got a tat of Ganish on hid calf and showed it to me and my wife thinking it was great. My wife a worshiper of Ganish seemed troubled and later said to me that its wrong to get this tattoo on his leg. I think the Thai culture is a little more delicate than most posters here seem to care about. I think you will find that most Thai's think this way not just this cultural minister. I have seen a lot of Thai's with religious tattoo's but never on their legs.

[Stevenredd]

It would be more effective for the Public Health Ministry to close down all the tatoo shops on health grounds as they are high risk places for catching HIV. How can customers be sure they don't re-use the needles to save a few baht?

Tattoos pose no risk of getting HIV. No risk, zero. Even the US CDC admits this: "The CDC summary data about tattooing and HIV is as brief as it is dramatic. In its HIV/AIDS Surveillance Reports, CDC has consistently noted that it has documented "no cases of HIV transmission through tattooing" anywhere in the country since it began tracking such data in 1985."

A tattoo needle may pose a slight risk of passing hepatitis, but not HIV or AIDS. Tthe CDC found 12 cases of transmission of hepatitis (out of 13,000) associated with tattoo studios. They found 43 cases of hepatitis associated with dental offices, so going to the dentist is much more of a risk than getting a tattoo.

Thank you for that. Tired of misinformation re: HIV

[beammeup]

We have people dying in hotels from toxic pesticide banned in other countries and crises abounding, but religious tattoos are this important. hmm....still debating my extended presence here.

Please do!

The Culture minister takes care of Cultural issues the Police take care of people dying in Hotels

Edited June 1, 2011 by beammeup

[mrjohnno]

I have an 'Exit only' tat on my butt, will I get done for it?

[Bwanatickey]

So disapointed,I was hopeing to read about the poor Man reported in the U.K. Paper,"The Sun"

,Englishman murdered in Koi Samui.Found in a Lake,natural causes,of course.

[travelmann]

Ladda Tangsupachai, director of the ministry's Cultural Surveillance Center, warned that if "people who showed their bodies for a living" such as "prostitutes" and "go-go dancers" had such tattoos, it would erode respect for religion.

Tsk tsk....maybe they ought to outlaw the spirit houses and shrines that all the go go's have, as well as make it forbidden for the girls to wai them.

Phuket really is going down the tubes. First the wonderful tuk tuk drivers, and now all those disrespectful tattooed farangs...what possibly could be next?

Dont be stupid there are no prostitutes in Thailand..................sheesh!!

[travelmann]

So disapointed,I was hopeing to read about the poor Man reported in the U.K. Paper,"The Sun"

,Englishman murdered in Koi Samui.Found in a Lake,natural causes,of course.

Only a story if he had a Buddha Tattoo on him.

[Beetlejuice]

The whole debate simple buggers belief

You`re right.

This is more like a mass debate.

[chooka]

Maybe when they have finnished with this crackdown they can start or finnish the crackdown they were going to have on scams.

[kimamey]

I am staying at a Thai Theravada temple in Phoenix, Arizona. And yes, Thai's think they own Buddhism. They actually don't like it much when Americans come to the temple. They also don't like it much, when we are holding a Buddhist ceremony at the temple and I explain in English to the Americans what's going on. Most of them think that if the Americans want to know what's going on, they should learn to speak and read Thai. In the US of A no less. But, if you remember, a few years ago, they tried to make Buddhism the national religion in Thailand, it didn't pass.

So I guess what it all boils down to is, let's see if we (Thailand) can come up with another way of fleecing the farangs.

But if you think the Thai's are bad, go to Sri Lanka.. Man, they've lost their mind there when it comes to the Buddhist religion. Sri Lanka and Buddhism is getting as bad there as the Muslims.

Before my last trip to see my gf at the beginning of the year I bought a book about Theravada Buddhism to try to understand it better. I haven't finished even though it's only about 140 pages as I got a bit disillusioned by it all. I think I just got the impression of all these people going to temples, sticking pieces of gold onto statues, lighting candles and all the other things that are done instead of really looking at how they live their life. I know this probably applies to other religions as well. I saw the precept about not taking life then went to the market and saw all the animals, some dead and the others soon to be dead. I remembered that one of her dogs had been poisoned and another may have been since. It just didn't seem to mean much at all. One sentence in the section about becoming or being a Buddhist stood out. "Those born into Buddhist families will automatically regard themselves as Buddhists whatever they do, much the same as most people do in other religions".

Interestingly I showed the book to my gf and pointed out that it was about specifically about Theravada Buddhism as this was what was practised in Thailand. I thought I would check with her to make sure I had the pronunciation correct and she said she'd never heard the word Theravada.

As for the ban on tattoos it's crazy. I'm not sure i understan Thai polotics but could this just be a ploy to get votes from Thais who see this as standing up for Thais and their religion?

[kimamey]

The whole debate simple buggers belief

You`re right.

This is more like a mass debate.

Good one

[PaulBax]

<br />

<br />Thai market tattoo shops reuse needles without sterilization whereas any good studio opens a new sterile needle in front of you! I have Buddhist tattoos all very carefully thought out and made in the UK. We know this is more rubbish by bureaucrats who have to justify their existence, however, they have no clue as to just how classless tattoos have become in the west or how much they are part of modern popular culture.<br />

<br />I have many tattoos, all done in Thailand and Indonesia, and never struck a tattooist who does not use a new needle. As all your tattoos were done in UK, then your evidence of malpractise here must be anecdotal rather than factual.You were probably warned by your Uk tattooist of the dangers of saving 1000s of $$ by having them done in Asia.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

All my tattoos were free, both my Thai and English ones! i does help if you are in the trade!

[saroq]

OK let me think, Ministry of Appropriate Tattoo, no, no....Anti-Farang Tattoo Laws allowing local police to fine Farang with religious tattoo's 500 Baht if watching a go go dancer or drinking a beer.

Why not change the official Thai Tourist Ad Catch Phrase to "Come to Thailand - we're more tolerant than Afghanistan".

Ha ha. Cracked me up! Thanks. Now I can start my day with a smile.

Edited June 1, 2011 by saroq

[Trentham]

Perhaps Thai Buddhists can stop using the Christian cross in their tattoos and also stop wearing jewellery made with the cross. I have often heard Thais complain about Westerners using the Buddha image for decoration in their homes or on their bodies at the very time they are using the cross.OH and by the way, it is Thai Buddhists doing the tattooing or selling the images for decoration.

[dominique355]

I have an 'Exit only' tat on my butt, will I get done for it?

Yep, if you belong to the religion of Exits and your god's name is X-it.

[featography]

"the ministry's Subcommittee on Safe and Creative Media"

straight out of Orwell

I was thinking the same. Then one would have to deal with the Thai Circumlocution Office. If you have no idea what this is it comes from the Charles Dickens' Little Dorrit. I quote

Charles Dickens wrote Little Dorrit between 1855 and 1857. The term circumlocution describes roundabout or indirect speech, or the use of many words where a few would do. The Circumlocution Office is a place of endless confusion. Forms need to be filled in to request permission to fill in more forms.

If you have not read the book then I highly reccomend you do.

Well, Well, Well,

Now we know what the Thai govt is patterned after. They studied the West for new ideas, were so excited to read this book, stopped with that one, and started their Demo Cra Cee. Even patterned the online language translation programs from Dickens., and ever since then, it has beat the Dickens out of of us, trying figure out Thai way.:jerk:

[chooka]

Just about every Thai guy in our village has some 'lucky' religious tattoo somewhere on his body. Alot of them done at the local wat. I wonder if the proposed law banning religious images on the body is intended for both farang and Thais?

It says to stop farangs from getting them. Seems thais will be free to have as many as they please.