Buchholz Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) I note that the Immigration officer disingenuously omitted to point out that the Interior Miinstry failed without explanation to issue the annual quota for permanent residence applications for 2010, so that no applications could be made at all last year. There has also been no official explanation as to why the applications from 2006 to 2009 are all stuck in the Interior Ministry. One might surmise that the issue of PR is a rather moot one... at least until at least one application from over the past five years is approved. Some one posted in the Camerata thread that he went along to apply in this category without a job in Thailand but the officers refused to accept his application to save his money and trouble. One might also consider this as the prudent way of proceeding for all those considering applying.... again, at least until at least one application is approved. . Edited June 9, 2011 by Buchholz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticklee Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Re freelance work permit for artist, The content of the link contained in a post on the first page, in case readers have not followed the link. “In general, foreigners who want to work without forming their own company can apply for a freelance work permit, but I cannot say exactly which types of work will be approved and which will not. However, just for example, artists, artisans, singers, musicians, technicians, reporters, among others, are some of the types of workers who are usually allowed to work on a self-employed basis. They need to file the application form and show us “relevant documents” and we will consider approval case-by-case. If your request is approved, it would be only temporarily, until we can check your tax payment history when you renew your work permit. For a work permit for horse riding lessons, prepare whatever relevant documents you have, such as any licenses or permits proving you own the horse, photos and details of where the horse is stabled, a plan of which customers you intend to serve, details of the location where you will conduct your lessons and so on. Come in to the office in person to talk with us. And, if you find any foreigners working without a permit, please let us know by letter or fax. We will investigate and prosecute any person found breaking the law. Please call our work permit division for more information at 076-219660-1 ext13 and ask specifically for Khun Boy. He is the officer who can offer basic information in English and Chinese.” Friday, April 1, 2011 Noppadol Ployudee, Phuket Provincial Employment Office chief source of the quote:http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1201 I am in the process of trying to obtain said work permit. So far I have had 2 appointments with an officer at CM Dept. of Emp. She has accepted my skill and credentials provided and has verbally approved my application in principle. Although she also indicated that the new law is at this only 'on the books' it is not yet 'in effect' which would allow her to issue the work permit. Seems that there is a significant discrepancy in the information being provided by representatives of the Dept. of Emp. So who is correct, who/what to believe? I'm in ongoing contact with the officer I have been interviewed by and and hopeful that that such a permit will be issued. I'll be happy to update the forum if/when it happens. On another note, who were the guys photographing everyone in attendance at the seminar, and why? I noted that every table and every person standing or sitting had there picture taken (I think I managed to avoid). I found it very suspicious as there were obvious 'official' photographers in attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 "Working legally in Thailand", that means working without breaking the laws and without committing crimes.....how many police officers were attending the meeting again? Good point raised especially tourist police who seem to be on a mission here in Hua Hin arresting anyone who moves in a way that can be construded as working. Does anyone know what their powers are? From Department of Work Permits in Chiang Mai in another thread: He even goes so far as to mention the tourist police in Chiang Mai, who employ foreign 'volunteers' who are technically working without official work permits, "please tell them that that is illegal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechnikaIII Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 How about this case: An artist (painter/photographer) or an author, who likes to spend time in Thailand, is content with a 30 day stamp in his/her passport on arrival, and tourist visa from neighbouring countries, ... sits in his private space to draw, paint or write, .. has no interest in having clients in Thailand, never shows his work in Thailand, because all the income is generated from business outside Thailand, > publisher in the UK > galleries in Europe etc Stays out of everyone's way, ships his work out via courier, in his luggage or in the case of digital files, via the WWW .. does not take a single Baht from anyone in Thailand, nor competes with any local "wanna be" artists, so jealousy is nothing to contend with .... If that were you, would you even worry about a permit? Thai tax law requires such a person to pay tax if he is a resident in Thailand for 186 days, and brings in to Thailand money he made overseas .. as Residents are taxed on Global Income! ok i am planning to stay long term in thailand, i have a type o multiple entry visa for 1 year and would be planning to marry some time in the future so visa'a will not be a problem..............my question is regarding my income ? basically i have a reasonable investment portfolio which while i work here in the UK is a bit of a hobby , will become my main source of income if i were to move to thailand........another source may also be the rent from 1 or 2 houses over here. so would the thai govenment consider my hobby of share dealing online to be working? and would they expect me to prove about these incomes and pay tax on them? thats on top of the tax i already pay out on this to her majesties government there are so many grey areas in this process...............quite simply i want put 800 000 in a thai bank and forget about it.......maybe use occassionally if i need funds but can quite easily get money and pay bills with my UK bank account hence still gain some interest........all my income stream will be going into that UK bank account and i will just top up what is required to make the visa every year......... i am sure there must be many people who do it like this but i have never thought about work permits as i would never consider myself to be working. does anyone know where i would stand on this? i dont want my 3 years of planning to go down the drain ........... My sense is that to operate on a "need to know" basis is the least stressful way to go, providing that you can manage the required secrecy element. Being the goodie goodie and asking an official if he wants you to pay tax on something that he would otherwise have no way of knowing about, renders idiocy. The less any government official knows about you, and this applies to all countries, the better. It gives them less of an opportunity to screw you. And screw us they will. It is our never ending challenge to minimise the depth of penetration. Loose lips sink ships. This also applies to the whispering spouse, boasting about hubby's clever tricks. I pay income taxes to a government which will furnish me with a pension. Thailand already benefits from every £, $ and Krone I pull out of the wall in the form of Baht and spend it here. I pay house rent to a Thai, as well as local council tax and I pay for all amenities on the property. I complain about nothing and keep it clean. The only money I ever receive from a Thai is change given when I purchase something - not a single Baht more, ever. And for what it's worth, I think retirement visa fees should be wavered for all those who bring money into Thailand, bank it, place it in ethical investments or simply use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quandow Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I have been teaching music in Thailand legally for years (have work permit) and am scared SPITLESS to play in public. I've seen immigration "do their thing" because someone was angry with the club owner and made a complaint to an immigration friend of theirs. The club suffers, the beneficiaries of the jam suffer - in this case it was "The Chameleon Society" - and musicians can't have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechnikaIII Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 How about this case: An artist (painter/photographer) or an author, who likes to spend time in Thailand, is content with a 30 day stamp in his/her passport on arrival, and tourist visa from neighbouring countries, ... sits in his private space to draw, paint or write, .. has no interest in having clients in Thailand, never shows his work in Thailand, because all the income is generated from business outside Thailand, > publisher in the UK > galleries in Europe etc Stays out of everyone's way, ships his work out via courier, in his luggage or in the case of digital files, via the WWW .. does not take a single Baht from anyone in Thailand, nor competes with any local "wanna be" artists, so jealousy is nothing to contend with .... If that were you, would you even worry about a permit? Thai tax law requires such a person to pay tax if he is a resident in Thailand for 186 days, and brings in to Thailand money he made overseas .. as Residents are taxed on Global Income! So if the total number of days in Thailand on tourist visas exceeds 186 days within a 12 month period, they will actually notice and ask questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyls Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) ' Married to a Thai national will offer eligibility to apply for permanent residency'. Tax payment is one of the things considered in the approval process so in most cases such payment would be an important consideration for PR application. What about applying for PR while earning less than the required amount for paying taxes? I mean 15.000 a month. Here where I live, in the boonies, I don't make much money as an English teacher, about the same as my wife who's a government teacher, but it's more than enough, because hardly any costs and we grow most of our own food. We live a simple life like most locals, with my Thai wife and son. I speak Thai fluently, can read it very well and write it. I'm also an active and devout Buddhist and do donations regularly. Any chances of applying for a PR or Thai nationality? I'm Dutch by the way. Our family would have to be split up if I wanted to make more money and move to Bangkok instead. That's something we definitely choose not to. My visa is a non-immgrant O and I do have a work permit. Edited June 9, 2011 by hyls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 You should read through the pinned PR item at top of this forum for more information and not be afraid to discuss with Immigration as they do try to point you in the right direction from most reports I have seen. It is a judgement system based on a number of points and you may be low on the income/tax but high on charities and language/lifestyle so there really is no one answer fits all. As you are planning to live your life here I would do what you can to make it more secure; and PR will be a help in that process. And yes citizenship is also a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anterian Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Could somebody tell me why the 800,000 baht required to be in a Thai Bank Account for the purposes of securing a Retirement Visa could not be equally achieved by significant sums invested in the SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand)? "Significant sums" is a very subjective term and of course varies from person to person. If you have such "significant sums" invested in the SET, why can't you take out a measly 800k of this significant amount out of the stock market and park in in a bank (if for only 2-3 months of the year...if you cannot bear to leave it in all year)? The underlying Thai logic is that the 800 kBaht is the amount needed for a farang to survive on for a year when in Thailand. So at each annual renewal you are saying I have 800 KBt and am "good to go" for the next year. It is naturally important therefore that the money is "liquid", if it was in terms of property or stocks and shares it might not be instantly available when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyMcCollum Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I have a "Non B" visa. I submit over 400 pages of documents to get my work permit. What amazes me is that Immigration does not accept the paperwork from the Department of Labor and I have to submit 400 new pages of copies to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Sorry - this appears to be another bucket of b***sh**. Having recently spent some considerable time checking up dates and drafting an accurate CV - details of ten years of employment in Education along with details of extensive training (specifically including test results of 100% in the entrance examination designed by an Australian company to screen employees for it's franchise) and a further 2 years on the job training and assessment and observations... along with copies of genuine Education documents; including qualifications to professional standard from the Secretary of State of the Home department, and the DTp, TEFL, and documents from several seminars attended as evidence of further training over the last ten years...... These together with a letter from my employer stating that over the two years of part time work, training and assessment she has judged me to be a key member of her organisation, including also a copy of a 2 year contract she signed with me.... flatly refused for a work permit because one or two rules were not fully satisfied. As long as the Thai government are so utterly rigid in these matters they will continue to outlaw a great number of extremely competent people, a great number of very good people, and a whole raft of very positive contributors to Thai society. Instead demanding that rules are met to the letter and not really worrying if people really are what they appear. The outward appearance is the most important factor as it always has been and perhaps always will. OMG...how dare they refuse you a WP because you gont qualify on 1 or 2 rules... ....your an expat you know..... you should demand to be treated differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elektrified Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Just want to ask, Did Leonardo dicapro have a work permit when he worked in thailand or cage for that matter? Of course they did. The production office takes care of all these things; it's routine. I worked in the film industry for many years in different countries and it was always taken care of for me. And in most cases I had to pay tax in the country I was working in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elektrified Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Two or three months money in the bank. My experience is that everything in Thailand depends on place where you apply and who you deal with. (Your look is important, your wife's speaking polite Thai and repeating kaaa 1m times, smile all the time etc.) :jap: Huh??? What on earth does a wife have to do with applying for an annual extension? Absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estrada Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Could somebody tell me why the 800,000 baht required to be in a Thai Bank Account for the purposes of securing a Retirement Visa could not be equally achieved by significant sums invested in the SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand)? The answer is T.I.T. Thai Immigration follows the letter of the law which requires the money to be in a Bank in Thailand on Deposit in a savings account. Any account attracting a higher rate of interest is not accepted. I showed evidence of my SET Portfolio to the Senior Immigration officer in Bangkok, and it seems that even B30 million in the Stock Exchange of Thailand is not acceptable as to quote "It could easily go down" (TIT). Time Deposits, although more logical proof of having the money in place for 3 months, is also not acceptable (TIT). I cannot blame them, they only follow the letter of the Law. I hope to get the law changed to allow for SET accounts to be accepted for VISA purposes, but this will have to wait until after the election to see who is in power, and discuss the issue with them. Anyone who has contact with the Ministers concerned should bring this point up. In the past, after Immgration told me my wife must change her name to a Farang name, I spoke to the Deputy Prime Minister on Women's rights which resulted in Thai Women being able to keep their maiden names after marrying a foreigner, and to allow their wives to own houses and land after marrying a foreigner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 However, when asked about specialists offering advice for overseas clients in overseas markets, he felt that so long as they did not offer that advice to Thais or foreigners in Thailand that would be acceptable. This is obviously not correct. He must have failed to understand the question properly or just felt like releasing some hot air. There is nothing in the Working of Aliens Act that suggests that advising overseas clients is not work that needs a work permit. That would suggest that brokers advising overseas fund managers didn't need work permits which is obviously nonsense. Clearly advising overseas clients is work that requires a work permit and any income generated from such work performed in Thailand is also taxable. But maybe, he is using 'common sense' and maybe understands the situation in which the original 'act' was designed. To protect employment taking from thai's and issuing of WP's when someone did want to take a position for a thai company. There is a bit of a difference in a broker working for a company that advises both thai's and overseas clients (for a thai company) compared to sole business people who are purely consulting with overseas customers. If it is not, then why can you not obtain a work permit based on overseas consulting as a sole business? When there have been numerous accounts of people attempting to do but refused by the ministry of employment due to not having sponsorship from a thai company. They either count it as work and you CAN apply for a work permit based on that work. Or they don't count it as work and you cannot apply based on that work. Stuck between a rock and a hard place. But I guess it is Thailand and the could count it as work, but not let you apply anyway as it's not a occupation on the form (but then deemed not employment?) If it's not on the list of prohibited jobs (ie working for oneself for overseas clients) then it should be work. But if they don't count it as work (for work permit reasons), then what they hell is it? You can, just open a company and employ 4 thai staff.. Thailand doesnt accept farangs operting self employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Ok, so I'm an independent software consultant (not a programmer) working for my own USA company for USA clients. I login remotely to servers physically located in the USA and perform work. Work being installing and supporting software. My clients make payments to my USA company's USA account. I have no dealings at all with Thais or Thai companies. I use iPhone, iPad, and laptop to login remotely from wherever I happen to be when work needs to be done. I have a home office, but could also be working from a coffee shop or park bench. Do I still need a work permit? If so, how would I even apply if I have no Thai company (nor any interest in forming one) or Thai employees? Yes you need a work permit. As above.. The way to legalize yourself, is the way you have 'no interest in doing'.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estrada Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Could somebody tell me why the 800,000 baht required to be in a Thai Bank Account for the purposes of securing a Retirement Visa could not be equally achieved by significant sums invested in the SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand)? The answer is T.I.T. Thai immigration follow the letter of the law which requires the money to be a in a bank in Thailand in a savings deposit account. I spoke to the senior immigration officer when I showed him my SET Invesment portfolio, and he said that B30 Million in the SET is not acceptable as "the money can be lost easily". Also time deposits are not acceptable. To answer also another post and this one, the Thai Government are not keen on attracting investment money from overseas as this increases the Thai Baht exchange rate. They will accept B800,000 in a low or no interest bearing account so the Thai Banks can make more profit lending your money to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Two or three months money in the bank. My experience is that everything in Thailand depends on place where you apply and who you deal with. (Your look is important, your wife's speaking polite Thai and repeating kaaa 1m times, smile all the time etc.) :jap: Huh??? What on earth does a wife have to do with applying for an annual extension? Absolutely nothing. Well it sure does when applying for a marriage extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Two or three months money in the bank. My experience is that everything in Thailand depends on place where you apply and who you deal with. (Your look is important, your wife's speaking polite Thai and repeating kaaa 1m times, smile all the time etc.) :jap: Huh??? What on earth does a wife have to do with applying for an annual extension? Absolutely nothing. Try obtaining a Thai Wife annual extension of stay without her. Has everything to do with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travelmann Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 How about this case: An artist (painter/photographer) or an author, who likes to spend time in Thailand, is content with a 30 day stamp in his/her passport on arrival, and tourist visa from neighbouring countries, ... sits in his private space to draw, paint or write, .. has no interest in having clients in Thailand, never shows his work in Thailand, because all the income is generated from business outside Thailand, > publisher in the UK > galleries in Europe etc Stays out of everyone's way, ships his work out via courier, in his luggage or in the case of digital files, via the WWW .. does not take a single Baht from anyone in Thailand, nor competes with any local "wanna be" artists, so jealousy is nothing to contend with .... If that were you, would you even worry about a permit? How about someone who bought about 60 condos and pays locals to take care of them but does go round with them sometimes to see if everything is alright and tells them what he wants done, how about when the tenants e mail said owner asking for something to be fixed and he then tells the people he employs to fix it??? is that work?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 How about someone who bought about 60 condos and pays locals to take care of them but does go round with them sometimes to see if everything is alright and tells them what he wants done, how about when the tenants e mail said owner asking for something to be fixed and he then tells the people he employs to fix it??? is that work?? I have seen a similar point surface in the context of foreign companies that buy condos in Thailand. A law firm advised that they couldn't legally rent them out because they would be deemed to be operating in Thailand in breach of the Foreign Business Act. They would have to register a branch office in Thailand and apply for an Alien Business License but this is currently only allowed for branches of foreign airlines and banks. I think that a foreign individual letting condos is a more grey area that has not been challenged and probably won't be, unless some one complains about a case similar to your example. Clearly foreign landlords are liable to income tax on the rental income and the RD taxes them as a sole proprietor running a business which is an unlawful business structure for a foreigner. I think it would not be too difficult to make a case that some one who is involved in the management of investment properties was working and in breach of work permit regulations as well, operating an unregistered foreign business in violation of the FBA. Consider also the case of a foreigner in Thailand on a retirement visa who owns a significant minority stake in a Thai company of which he is a non-executive director without signing authority. It is perfectly lawful to own the shares and receive the dividend income (also taxable) but there have been plenty of test cases to show that the Labour Ministry requires him to have a work permit to be a non-executive director even though duties are limited to attending board meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New2LOS Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) However, when asked about specialists offering advice for overseas clients in overseas markets, he felt that so long as they did not offer that advice to Thais or foreigners in Thailand that would be acceptable. This is obviously not correct. He must have failed to understand the question properly or just felt like releasing some hot air. There is nothing in the Working of Aliens Act that suggests that advising overseas clients is not work that needs a work permit. That would suggest that brokers advising overseas fund managers didn't need work permits which is obviously nonsense. Clearly advising overseas clients is work that requires a work permit and any income generated from such work performed in Thailand is also taxable. But maybe, he is using 'common sense' and maybe understands the situation in which the original 'act' was designed. To protect employment taking from thai's and issuing of WP's when someone did want to take a position for a thai company. There is a bit of a difference in a broker working for a company that advises both thai's and overseas clients (for a thai company) compared to sole business people who are purely consulting with overseas customers. If it is not, then why can you not obtain a work permit based on overseas consulting as a sole business? When there have been numerous accounts of people attempting to do but refused by the ministry of employment due to not having sponsorship from a thai company. They either count it as work and you CAN apply for a work permit based on that work. Or they don't count it as work and you cannot apply based on that work. Stuck between a rock and a hard place. But I guess it is Thailand and the could count it as work, but not let you apply anyway as it's not a occupation on the form (but then deemed not employment?) If it's not on the list of prohibited jobs (ie working for oneself for overseas clients) then it should be work. But if they don't count it as work (for work permit reasons), then what they hell is it? You can, just open a company and employ 4 thai staff.. Thailand doesnt accept farangs operting self employment. The question was posed by an attorney living in Thailand. It was very specific about servicing clients located overseas while he remained in Thailand. Rhuchuchai Pothai answered stating that it was a "good question" and appeared to be pondering while formulating his answer. He then said that as long as the client(s) were overseas that no work permit was required. He followed up with the scenario that IF the client(s) receiving service were located in Thailand, then a work permit would be required. However, he hedged by concluding that he would have to check and get back to the moderator. I was surprised by his conclusion because clearly the law requires a work permit for any effort employed by a person who is located IN Thailand, and is not dependent upon the location of the person(s) receiving the benefit of the service. Edited June 9, 2011 by New2LOS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTiger Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 .....I was surprised by his conclusion because clearly the law requires a work permit for any effort employed by a person who is located IN Thailand, and is not dependent upon the location of the person(s) receiving the benefit of the service. Sorry to quote only @New2LOS.... In short, despite the work and effort of some officers in Thailand (a try like this meeting is always good), nothing is really definitively crystal clear No wonder why we may receive 10 different answers to 2 questions :jap: But is that really a surprise? Immigration rules should be applied better/differently than any other department/division rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylver Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 ...As well as incorrectly saying theres no freelance visa, they also totally contradict what other depts say about work permits for online consulting. http://www.phuketgaz...ils.asp?id=1175 "Doing business online is considered a type of work, so foreigners are required to have a work permit to do so" Somkiat Baiadul, an officer at the work permit division of the Phuket Department of Employment "If we find out that a foreigner is doing business online without a work permit, we will arrest them and take legal action through the court." Pol Col Panuwat Ruamrak, Superintendent of Phuket Immigration Left hand.. Meet right hand.. The worst part of it is that they are BOTH right according to the law. The definition of work is all inclusive and encompass all human activities. Tying your own shoes is an obvious application of skill and as such can be deemed to be work within the official definition of work. "Of course", no one would be arrested for tying his shoes... because application of the law is left to the common sense of the person enforcing the law. Applying the law to the letter would find EVERY foreigner in Thailand to be working. On holidays and playing a round of Golf? Guilty. Driving a rented car? Guilty. Negotiating the price of a shirt? Guilty. In other words, the law is what the officer in front of you thinks it is. Therefore, both are entirely correct. They couldn't possibly be wrong since their own common sense is the standard used to determine whether or not you are violating the law. If a labor department official deems you to be guilty, you are guilty. If he deems you to be innocent, you are innocent... until you meet another official who thinks you are guilty. This law is a joke and will remain a joke until they actually figure out what is really authorized and what isn't, and write down the darn thing in specific terms that do not provide unlimited powers to officials in charge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venturalaw Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 ...As well as incorrectly saying theres no freelance visa, they also totally contradict what other depts say about work permits for online consulting. http://www.phuketgaz...ils.asp?id=1175 "Doing business online is considered a type of work, so foreigners are required to have a work permit to do so" Somkiat Baiadul, an officer at the work permit division of the Phuket Department of Employment "If we find out that a foreigner is doing business online without a work permit, we will arrest them and take legal action through the court." Pol Col Panuwat Ruamrak, Superintendent of Phuket Immigration Left hand.. Meet right hand.. The worst part of it is that they are BOTH right according to the law. The definition of work is all inclusive and encompass all human activities. Tying your own shoes is an obvious application of skill and as such can be deemed to be work within the official definition of work. "Of course", no one would be arrested for tying his shoes... because application of the law is left to the common sense of the person enforcing the law. Applying the law to the letter would find EVERY foreigner in Thailand to be working. On holidays and playing a round of Golf? Guilty. Driving a rented car? Guilty. Negotiating the price of a shirt? Guilty. In other words, the law is what the officer in front of you thinks it is. Therefore, both are entirely correct. They couldn't possibly be wrong since their own common sense is the standard used to determine whether or not you are violating the law. If a labor department official deems you to be guilty, you are guilty. If he deems you to be innocent, you are innocent... until you meet another official who thinks you are guilty. This law is a joke and will remain a joke until they actually figure out what is really authorized and what isn't, and write down the darn thing in specific terms that do not provide unlimited powers to officials in charge... I believe that it is axiomatic that for one to engage in "work" it must be for the benefit of another. Tying one's own shoes is not work, but tying the shoes of another is under the definition of work. Mowing the lawn or hanging a picture in your home is not work, but if it your wife's home, then it is work. If you are sitting in your home playing a guitar it is not work. Play in someone's establishment where they benefit from the entertainment you are providing is work. However, that said, it's unfortunately true that our freedoms in Thailand are determined by the officer who we may unluckily encounter, and his/her interpretation of the law, and/or mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elektrified Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Two or three months money in the bank. My experience is that everything in Thailand depends on place where you apply and who you deal with. (Your look is important, your wife's speaking polite Thai and repeating kaaa 1m times, smile all the time etc.) :jap: Huh??? What on earth does a wife have to do with applying for an annual extension? Absolutely nothing. Try obtaining a Thai Wife annual extension of stay without her. Has everything to do with her. I believe that the post was in reference to a retirement visa. But I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Does anyone know what has actually happened to the farang musicians who were arrested at Northgate Jazz Coop and Guitar Man in Chiang Mai in April and May? I found a thread from 2005 that indicated Guitar Man was prosecuted that year for allowing a farang to jam on stage but won the court case on the grounds that the farang was an amateur musician who was no more working than people at karaoke parlours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elektrified Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) Does anyone know what has actually happened to the farang musicians who were arrested at Northgate Jazz Coop and Guitar Man in Chiang Mai in April and May? I found a thread from 2005 that indicated Guitar Man was prosecuted that year for allowing a farang to jam on stage but won the court case on the grounds that the farang was an amateur musician who was no more working than people at karaoke parlours. I believe that the case is pending and that they are awaiting a hearing on the matter. I think that the case you refer to from 2005 was when Guitarman was under different ownership. Edited June 9, 2011 by elektrified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mataleo Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) A company started by a Thai person and employing and paying social security for 4 Thai employees can offer one work permit for a foreigner without needing the required 2 million baht in registered capital. so if i get company willing to employ me started by thai with minimum 3 thai workers paying taxes, amd then apply for work permit and visa B? means i can apply for jobs on net, to thai companies right? thank you Edited June 9, 2011 by mataleo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 A company started by a Thai person and employing and paying social security for 4 Thai employees can offer one work permit for a foreigner without needing the required 2 million baht in registered capital. so if i get company willing to employ me started by thai with minimum 3 thai workers paying taxes, amd then apply for work permit and visa B? means i can apply for jobs on net, to thai companies right? thank you No its 4 Thai workers and not sure what you mean by last sentence ? If you mean you can find work for the Thai company that holds your WP and they put you into another company to work on contract ..then yes If you mean apply for jobs with a new Thai company and work for that company as an indivdual...then no...you would need a new WP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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