Tablet Computers To Contain Text Books; Pheu Thai Policy

[thaicbr]

Ok, so now they've promised cheap tablets with e-textbooks. It's a start. But what happens when a kid walks home through a thunderstorm with his tablet in his cheap backpack, and it gets soaked through - or drops it - or it simply develops problems? How will he do his homework without being able to access the e-books?

If they don't plan on replacements for dead machines, or loaners whilst a tablet is out being repaired, I can see lots of problems for the kids.

I agree the whole idea is flawed........... replace a book 300b max replace the tablet 3,000b min.

You can spin this idea many ways but the cons out way the pros....

Edited August 12, 2011 by thaicbr

[arrowsdawdle]

Basically the move to e-books in academia is a given worldwide. They can be updated and ammended in almost realtime and cost will be lower. There are also no problems with out of stock or print issues. As I understand it in Thailand judging by what Asia Books have said, the problem right now is a technical one related to Thai fonts and relevant apps. No doubt a govrnment initiative like this will result in it quickly being overcome. Thailand isn't insane here. They are just copying what is going to happen worldwide. In academia e-books have too many advantages over print ones

Long-term you may well be right, in regard to some teaching & learning materials. But don't forget that it needs power and Internet connection.

But your still missing the point, P1 children should be focused on reading and hand writing skills, not keyboard skills which nowadays they develop quickly through contact with other equipment.

What point? You cannot read a tablet? Reading apps can accelerate reading skills without the supervision of a teacher. Is this not a good thing? Handwriting is not preempted by a tablet any more than by a textbook, even though handwriting is of vastly diminished importance with every passing year. Hammered didn't miss the point because no point has been made.

Distance learning and web apps are the education norm in many colleges and universities in North America. Part of the motivation is the eco-friendliness of not having to cut down forests for paper to print books, which takes a lot of power to run presses and binding operations and lots of fuel for shipping and distribution, and there is no toxic ink waste from cleaning the printing rollers after the printing.

One thing the tablets do is give the government, or anybody else with access to the database of tablet recipients, immediate channels for dissemination of political or other information.

As for the fonts issue, kids need to learn in English (like in Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Malaysia) because that is the backbone of technology and business worldwide, and learning without English is like trying to play Mozart on a base drum. Of course they need to know they have a local language for cultural identification, that is useless outside of a very small territory, but for learning and communicating kids are short changed, albeit managed into isolation and limited growth potential, without English.

[Thaddeus]

The advantage to these tablets is that the entire education system will have to progress to keep up with them, especially those that are teachers in name only. Poor teachers will tend to oppose them because now students can Google to keep the teachers honest. This is why the whole system will progress. Students may not be allowed to ask questions of teachers in order to save teachers' face if they don't know the answer, but now students can find the answers and need not protect incompetent teachers. Inept teachers will become known to parents and concerned parents will pressure school administrators. This may also cut in to the teachers' scam of not teaching during school hours in order to get paid for tutoring after school. A student that becomes competent with the tablet and Internet will need far less tutoring than ones that depend wholly on textbooks and the teacher.

oh RIGHT....really and HOW will they google anything if the school does not have wifi.........Not forgetting of course that we are talking about PRATOM 1....SIX (6) YEAR OLD KIDS.

Quite.

Can't even read or write properly at that age, google is hardly going to be used. And even if they were a little older and had basic spelling skills, would they be searching in English or Thai, as if it's Thai, what would their searches reveal, sites blocked by ICT, heavily edited versions of history, websites infected with malware?

[OzMick]

The advantage to these tablets is that the entire education system will have to progress to keep up with them, especially those that are teachers in name only. Poor teachers will tend to oppose them because now students can Google to keep the teachers honest. This is why the whole system will progress. Students may not be allowed to ask questions of teachers in order to save teachers' face if they don't know the answer, but now students can find the answers and need not protect incompetent teachers. Inept teachers will become known to parents and concerned parents will pressure school administrators. This may also cut in to the teachers' scam of not teaching during school hours in order to get paid for tutoring after school. A student that becomes competent with the tablet and Internet will need far less tutoring than ones that depend wholly on textbooks and the teacher.

Internet - in Nakhon Nowhere, where you go 2 km out of town to get a mobile phone signal.

Get a cheap mobile phone connection, B200/m, or a day's wages on minimum pay.

And that will be REAL fast at 4pm. Does even Bangkok have the bandwidth to support all the children about to connect?

6 yr old novices with no support or supervision on the internet, I'm sure they'll find all sorts of interesting stuff. Or it will find them.

And teachers who feel threatened are going to be the main source of assistance. "........ the entire education system will have to progress to keep up with them...." OR they won't work.

which do you think is the most likely?

[thaicbr]

Basically the move to e-books in academia is a given worldwide. They can be updated and ammended in almost realtime and cost will be lower. There are also no problems with out of stock or print issues. As I understand it in Thailand judging by what Asia Books have said, the problem right now is a technical one related to Thai fonts and relevant apps. No doubt a govrnment initiative like this will result in it quickly being overcome. Thailand isn't insane here. They are just copying what is going to happen worldwide. In academia e-books have too many advantages over print ones

Long-term you may well be right, in regard to some teaching & learning materials. But don't forget that it needs power and Internet connection.

But your still missing the point, P1 children should be focused on reading and hand writing skills, not keyboard skills which nowadays they develop quickly through contact with other equipment.

What point? You cannot read a tablet? Reading apps can accelerate reading skills without the supervision of a teacher. Is this not a good thing? Handwriting is not preempted by a tablet any more than by a textbook, even though handwriting is of vastly diminished importance with every passing year. Hammered didn't miss the point because no point has been made.

Distance learning and web apps are the education norm in many colleges and universities in North America. Part of the motivation is the eco-friendliness of not having to cut down forests for paper to print books, which takes a lot of power to run presses and binding operations and lots of fuel for shipping and distribution, and there is no toxic ink waste from cleaning the printing rollers after the printing.

One thing the tablets do is give the government, or anybody else with access to the database of tablet recipients, immediate channels for dissemination of political or other information.

As for the fonts issue, kids need to learn in English (like in Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Malaysia) because that is the backbone of technology and business worldwide, and learning without English is like trying to play Mozart on a base drum. Of course they need to know they have a local language for cultural identification, that is useless outside of a very small territory, but for learning and communicating kids are short changed, albeit managed into isolation and limited growth potential, without English.

I'm guessing from this post that YOU do not teach here in Thailand.

Kids in Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia do NOT learn all the lessons in English.. it's about the same percentage of English as here in Thailand (slightly less in Laos)

Hand writing a diminished importance are you mad, just because there are more computers does not STOP the teaching and learning of the basic education needs. Next you will be saying that we do not need to teach basic arithmetic because everyone has a calculator on their phone.

Also how arrogant to think that a non English speaking country MUST teach in English.

and you state colleges and universities in north america..... We are talking about 6 year olds.

Edited August 12, 2011 by thaicbr

[OzMick]

Basically the move to e-books in academia is a given worldwide. They can be updated and ammended in almost realtime and cost will be lower. There are also no problems with out of stock or print issues. As I understand it in Thailand judging by what Asia Books have said, the problem right now is a technical one related to Thai fonts and relevant apps. No doubt a govrnment initiative like this will result in it quickly being overcome. Thailand isn't insane here. They are just copying what is going to happen worldwide. In academia e-books have too many advantages over print ones

Long-term you may well be right, in regard to some teaching & learning materials. But don't forget that it needs power and Internet connection.

But your still missing the point, P1 children should be focused on reading and hand writing skills, not keyboard skills which nowadays they develop quickly through contact with other equipment.

What point? You cannot read a tablet? Reading apps can accelerate reading skills without the supervision of a teacher. Is this not a good thing? Handwriting is not preempted by a tablet any more than by a textbook, even though handwriting is of vastly diminished importance with every passing year. Hammered didn't miss the point because no point has been made.

Distance learning and web apps are the education norm in many colleges and universities in North America. Part of the motivation is the eco-friendliness of not having to cut down forests for paper to print books, which takes a lot of power to run presses and binding operations and lots of fuel for shipping and distribution, and there is no toxic ink waste from cleaning the printing rollers after the printing.

One thing the tablets do is give the government, or anybody else with access to the database of tablet recipients, immediate channels for dissemination of political or other information.

As for the fonts issue, kids need to learn in English (like in Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Malaysia) because that is the backbone of technology and business worldwide, and learning without English is like trying to play Mozart on a base drum. Of course they need to know they have a local language for cultural identification, that is useless outside of a very small territory, but for learning and communicating kids are short changed, albeit managed into isolation and limited growth potential, without English.

". Part of the motivation is the eco-friendliness of not having to cut down forests for paper to print books, which takes a lot of power to run presses and binding operations and lots of fuel for shipping and distribution, and there is no toxic ink waste from cleaning the printing rollers after the printing. "

And this huge amount of pollution is MUCH less than a tablet PC? Well, I am AMAZED! And you only have to plug it in a couple of times a day, that won't cause pollution because they will all come with a little solar panel. And when little Somchai drops it and breaks the screen (how much to fix!!!!!) you can safely dispose of it, just throw it out the back door for the chooks to peck at.

I'm still working on the concept of a 6yo with a few hundred thai word vocab becoming fluent in English from his tablet, and thai, and thai script without picking up a pencil. And whatever dialect they speak out near the border.

[Gary A]

Games? Internet connection? WHY? I'll be sorely disappointed if these devices can even get on the Internet or have regular games on them. Fun learning games, modern textbooks and decent teaching aids for lessons are what I see.

I'd bet that if this was a program the democrats came up with, that there would be some different opinions.

It's not like a test program is going to bankrupt the country. As I mentioned before, the money taken from Thaksin will pay for this MANY times over. It all depends on competent people setting up the program.

[atyclb]

Tablets

a little humour from someone who has lectured at 2 of the top bkk universities including school of medicine(quite good btw).

Using the same content, curriculum but delivered by/ aided by tablets will not accomplish much. A 21st century curriculum and approach could impact significantly. Training the mind to think and think outside of the box is what will make the country competitive with ASEAN nations.

If educational games for kids are used (math, grammar, science, spelling, history) it wouldn't be that bad.

Exactly! You nailed the point. Tablets shouldn't be merely used to display digitalized textbooks. The government should create a new multimedia platform with 3D animations, visual explanation, oral example (for foreign language learning) etc. That's precisely the added value of a tablet vs. a regular paper textbook.

Thank you for your kind words. I know there are many here that are all too familiar with the education system and culture, but it must start somewhere to have a chance to make a difference. At one point in time Singapore was hopelessly corrupt, yet today they are a different nation.

[thaicbr]

Games? Internet connection? WHY? I'll be sorely disappointed if these devices can even get on the Internet or have regular games on them. Fun learning games, modern textbooks and decent teaching aids for lessons are what I see.

I'd bet that if this was a program the democrats came up with, that there would be some different opinions.

It's not like a test program is going to bankrupt the country. As I mentioned before, the money taken from Thaksin will pay for this MANY times over. It all depends on competent people setting up the program.

It's going to be an Android device SOOOOO its all available. This is not about WHO thought up the idea its about HOW it can work..

The money taken from Thaksin has nothing to do with this, Don't you think now he's back in power he's going to get the money back ..... some how.

Any way back to the tablets... for 6 year olds.

"Fun learning games, modern textbooks and decent teaching aids for lessons"

Some school's already have these. You do not need a tablet to have these in a school. How are you going to use these fun learning games when the teacher cannot discern what is happening in their own classroom (ok IF each tablet is linked to the teachers then they can... but highly unlikely thats going to happen)

Edited August 12, 2011 by thaicbr

[TAWP]

Tablet: 3,000 baht

Text-books: 600-700 baht

Now imagine if they truly cared about the kids and instead...doubled the budget for free books?

When I went to school (grade 1 to 9) we had to use recycled books that was exchanged every some years (and to less numbers between the intervals to handle books completely destroyed/lost) - imagine if we had double the budget for the books, it would have been very nice...

[thaicbr]

Tablets

a little humour from someone who has lectured at 2 of the top bkk universities including school of medicine(quite good btw).

Using the same content, curriculum but delivered by/ aided by tablets will not accomplish much. A 21st century curriculum and approach could impact significantly. Training the mind to think and think outside of the box is what will make the country competitive with ASEAN nations.

If educational games for kids are used (math, grammar, science, spelling, history) it wouldn't be that bad.

Exactly! You nailed the point. Tablets shouldn't be merely used to display digitalized textbooks. The government should create a new multimedia platform with 3D animations, visual explanation, oral example (for foreign language learning) etc. That's precisely the added value of a tablet vs. a regular paper textbook.

Thank you for your kind words. I know there are many here that are all too familiar with the education system and culture, but it must start somewhere to have a chance to make a difference. At one point in time Singapore was hopelessly corrupt, yet today they are a different nation.

It's kinda useless to think of Singapore and Thailand in the same breathe.

Singapore is a city state of 5 million people (less than Bangkok). English is an official language and has been for a loooooong time. And even then they have only recently started using tablets (ipads) at upper high school/ university level.

Edited August 12, 2011 by thaicbr

[TAWP]

The normal approach, as we did back home, was to introduce laptops etc at the oldest students first...not the youngest. They are still busy learning to draw the alphabet and throw toys at each other...

[geriatrickid]

Why not simply allow any Thai schoolchild's parents to claim a tax refund for any computer used by the child at school.

They'd have to be paying taxes first. Most people are working grey economy, don't make enough, or evade.

The VAT is an effective means of collecting taxes in such a situation.

[thaicbr]

Why not simply allow any Thai schoolchild's parents to claim a tax refund for any computer used by the child at school.

They'd have to be paying taxes first. Most people are working grey economy, don't make enough, or evade.

The VAT is an effective means of collecting taxes in such a situation.

your suggesting a refund on VAT. How would that happen then?

[streetlite]

I am in a small Village in Nakhon Sawan Province. We have 20 new computers in the school but no Internet access. How do we get to the internet?

[scorecard]

Why not simply allow any Thai schoolchild's parents to claim a tax refund for any computer used by the child at school.

They'd have to be paying taxes first. Most people are working grey economy, don't make enough, or evade.

The VAT is an effective means of collecting taxes in such a situation.

You really believe every little mum and pop shop / every coffee booth along the road is sending in VAT money? And every business big or small is sending in the correct amounts (no double books)?

[thaicbr]

I am in a small Village in Nakhon Sawan Province. We have 20 new computers in the school but no Internet access. How do we get to the internet?

have they took them out of the boxes yet???

[SpoliaOpima]

If textbooks and other e-text were the point of the endowment, the government should have chosen Kindle. 10 days battery life vs 10 hours, less eye fatigue with screens that aren't backlit.

[thaicbr]

If textbooks and other e-text were the point of the endowment, the government should have chosen Kindle. 10 days battery life vs 10 hours, less eye fatigue with screens that aren't backlit.

BUT i'm pretty sure that Amazon would not do enough kickback

[Phil Conners]

3000 baht for a tablet PC?

So its basically just going to be a cheap ebook reader then?

For 3000 baht per student you could get them a PC. Second hand, possibly donated by companies etc.. with a CRT monitor. Quite useable computer, no good for games but certainly a useful learning tool.

What's wrong with that? According to the article that's essentially what they want and for this purpose an ebook reader like the Kindle would be much more appropriate than a tablet.

• The ebook reader with eink screen can run for weeks on a charge while a fully charged tablet might struggle to last through one school day.
  
• Eink screens are very slow to update so are useless for any arcade style games, reducing temptation to use it for games.
  
• The screen is much easier on the eyes, particularly if you need to spend all day reading it.
  
• Requires practically no computer background as it is just a reading device.
  
• As a parent to a 14 year old carrying 10 kilo books to school daily I can see the benefit in only having to carry a 300 grams tablet.
  

A Kindle is just over 4,000 baht before import duties. I'm sure being the government they don't have to pay import duties, and if they're going to order 800,000 units at the time they can surely negotiate a hefty discount.

[wintermute]

What's wrong with that? According to the article that's essentially what they want and for this purpose an ebook reader like the Kindle would be much more appropriate than a tablet.

This isn't about functionality it's about engendering populist sentiments through gimmicks. Also, whatever technological handout they plan on giving you better be sure Somchai Taxpayer will be paying top dollar for it indirectly through government contract to some wealthy Thai tycoon's intermediary IT business connections.

[Thaddeus]

Thank you for your kind words. I know there are many here that are all too familiar with the education system and culture, but it must start somewhere to have a chance to make a difference. At one point in time Singapore was hopelessly corrupt, yet today they are a different nation.

What happened in Singapore to make it change?

Is it likely to happen here any time soon?

[rubl]

Why not simply allow any Thai schoolchild's parents to claim a tax refund for any computer used by the child at school.

They'd have to be paying taxes first. Most people are working grey economy, don't make enough, or evade.

The VAT is an effective means of collecting taxes in such a situation.

As someone on this forum once said, VAT is a burden on the less fortunate. Income, corporate and other taxes seems a much fairer way of spreading the burden. The Shinawatras still not having to pay a single Baht on their Shinawatra Holdings sale in January 2006 is a total disgrace in that sense

[wintermute]

As someone on this forum once said, VAT is a burden on the less fortunate. Income, corporate and other taxes seems a much fairer way of spreading the burden. The Shinawatras still not having to pay a single Baht on their Shinawatra Holdings sale in January 2006 is a total disgrace in that sense

Show me a single billionaire that pays their fair share of tax in SE Asia and i'll show you a pig that can fly.

[Buchholz]

Yingluck Shinawatra, the sister of toppled former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra and the prime ministerial candidate for the country's biggest opposition Puea Thai party, holds up a Samsung Galaxy Tab tablet computer as she speaks to supporters in Bangkok June 18, 2011. Thais will go to the polls on July 3 for a general election. Yingluck was speaking about using tablets for use in schools as part of her plans if she is elected.

REUTERS

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//110618/481/urn_publicid_ap_org_e4db49d84cd141c7adcd6ccbf3676e4d/#photoViewer=/110618/ids_photos_wl/r4284809594.jpg

So the current e-book description of what Pheu Thai Party is offering for the children has no resemblance whatsoever to the abilities of the Samsung Galaxy tablet computer that Yingluck proudly displayed for all to marvel at during the PRE-election campaigning.

In short, another PTP campaign lie.

No real surprise there.

.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Yingluck Shinawatra, the sister of toppled former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra and the prime ministerial candidate for the country's biggest opposition Puea Thai party, holds up a Samsung Galaxy Tab tablet computer as she speaks

Great marketing (or a great lie).

Show off a 30,000 tablet computer during the campaign to your "consumers" and tell them all school children will receive them.

they cost € 690

http://asiabizz.com/2991/samsung-galaxy-tab-to-be-available-from-mid-september-for-e690/

and then after the "sale" (elected), break the reality to them that it will actually be a 3,000 baht no-name Chinese e-book... and only for first graders.

.

[louse1953]

each tablet will cost no more than Bt3,000 and its use-life should range from three to four years.

How many times can it be dropped before it breaks? How long before water damage occurs? For the price I don't think there is going to be the durability and build quality that is needed for daily use by young kids. Mobile phones are pretty rugged and can take a lot of abuse. Then again there has been a lot of r&d over the years to get to this stage. The tablets are still relatively new and delicate. I will be surprised if 50% are still working after 1 year.

How long before it's down the pawn shop?

[Ricardo]

You really believe every little mum and pop shop / every coffee booth along the road is sending in VAT money? And every business big or small is sending in the correct amounts (no double books)?

They probably pay VAT, if it's a Vatable-item, when they buy their supplies from Makro ... so VAT has been collected, on the things the small-traders sell-on, but not VAT on their own mark-up. It wouldn't be worth collecting from every small-business, the administration would cost way too much, both for the SMEs and the Thai tax-man.

By-the-way did anyone ask, how is the government going to compensate the publishers of all these text-books, for the copying of their wares ?

Edited August 13, 2011 by Ricardo

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post with misspellings and grammatical errors making it difficult to understand has been removed as well as a reply.

[scorecard]

"We will block access to inappropriate sites".

Will never be effective.

Plenty of kids today (and there will be older brothers and sisters, and parents who will demand some time using the tablet if not dominate it's use) are savvy enough to very quickly get around any 'blocks'. And many know how to quickly and easily link to servers outside of Thailand.