Jump to content
BANGKOK
Sign in to follow this  
george

20-Year-Old Briton Electrocuted To Death On Bangla Road, Phuket

Recommended Posts

Theres a big difference between being culturally tolerant and accepting, and being apathetic about life threatening shortcuts and bad choices..

Should we just say discos shouldnt have fire escapes because thats how its done ?? Or passenger ferries may as well skip the life jackets because.. well.. lifes cheap ?? Lets forget seat belts or crash helmets.

Someone choose to put that there.. That choice cost a young man his life. Unless poor judgement like that gets punished theres no reason for the next person not to also use poor judgement, and also cost lives. Thai or farang, people deserve better. To argue otherwise is to say we may as well remain cavemen, because 'thats how it was'.. Suggesting that people should expect the ground to not kill them is not the first leak in the dyke of some Orwellian big brother nanny state, its not the mark of some superior social freedom.

So where's your suggestions on how to 'punish' the poor judgement LivingLos? How can this problem be solved and what are you doing about it? Ranting on about the way things should be is just a useless exercise.

Unless you have the solution you're just blowing hot air.

How does the saying go?

"give me the strength to change the things I can change,

the serenity to accept the things I can't change

and the wisdom to know the difference"

(or something like that)

If you can't change it you have to accept it. I think that's the point AjarnJan was making.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theres a big difference between being culturally tolerant and accepting, and being apathetic about life threatening shortcuts and bad choices..

Should we just say discos shouldnt have fire escapes because thats how its done ?? Or passenger ferries may as well skip the life jackets because.. well.. lifes cheap ?? Lets forget seat belts or crash helmets.

Someone choose to put that there.. That choice cost a young man his life. Unless poor judgement like that gets punished theres no reason for the next person not to also use poor judgement, and also cost lives. Thai or farang, people deserve better. To argue otherwise is to say we may as well remain cavemen, because 'thats how it was'.. Suggesting that people should expect the ground to not kill them is not the first leak in the dyke of some Orwellian big brother nanny state, its not the mark of some superior social freedom.

So where's your suggestions on how to 'punish' the poor judgement LivingLos? How can this problem be solved and what are you doing about it? Ranting on about the way things should be is just a useless exercise.

Unless you have the solution you're just blowing hot air.

How does the saying go?

"give me the strength to change the things I can change,

the serenity to accept the things I can't change

and the wisdom to know the difference"

(or something like that)

If you can't change it you have to accept it. I think that's the point AjarnJan was making.

If the building codes were not applied then.. The owner of the building..

If the building codes were applied and it was approved planning the planning officer..

Hardly rocket science ??

'I' cannot change it.. But Thais should demand some accountability and responsibility in their own society.

However the main point of my post was as a counter to the presented idea that theres some charm in squalor, that it is some form of big brother nanny state to expect to not have people randomly be killed because someone wanted to take a building short cut. No its just good sense.

It could easily be a Thai child that was killed than a western youth. Dont Thai kids deserve a safe environment ?? Or is it westerners desire of a bit of rough around the edges, slumming it 3rd world playground (which they can get on a plane and leave for first world medical care) more important. Hey we wouldnt want them to develop too much, imagine what beer and birds might cost then hey !!

Thailands developing, modernizing, changing.. Its earning more, its closing the income disparity with the west. But one of the big hurdles thats slowing them down is the mai pen rai, lack of culpability or enforced responsibility, if they want the modernity, which they sure seem to, then I guess they will also have to hold people accountable to their actions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a Thai citizen I can certainly understand the concerns foreigners may have regarding safety and the public service nightmares that can cause tragic events like this.

I think, and it's only my personal opinion, that many things need to be improved here drastically to make Thailand reach the same level of sophistication you foreigners expect from living in paradise. I know there are lots to be done and honestly, a lot has improved from before. 20 years ago and 10 years ago, things are worse. Things are being continuously improved but at a snail slow pace and it bothers Thais living here too. However, throwing nasty comments in here will not make things improve. All it shows is how much you actually hate it here. How much more superior it is to live elsewhere and "Thai people" are merely a bunch of stupid idiots who has no intention of improving the ways we welcome you foreigners here. It's perfectly ok to not like living here and it's perfectly ok to wish the conditions here are better. I've been reading so many threads here that shows borderline hostility to this country, it's way of life, as well as the mentality of the people here. It shouldn't be stereotyped as the typical Thai attitude because it certainly does not reflect the honest truth. I have known through my years abroad and here that every country, every city, has problems of their own. This ranges from simple crimes to full scale riots, not all of these are always handled expertly and without any glitches. It never made me hate a place and ridicule its people as if I am superior than they are. That's a form of prejudice in my view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a Thai citizen I can certainly understand the concerns foreigners may have regarding safety and the public service nightmares that can cause tragic events like this.

I think, and it's only my personal opinion, that many things need to be improved here drastically to make Thailand reach the same level of sophistication you foreigners expect from living in paradise. I know there are lots to be done and honestly, a lot has improved from before. 20 years ago and 10 years ago, things are worse. Things are being continuously improved but at a snail slow pace and it bothers Thais living here too. However, throwing nasty comments in here will not make things improve. All it shows is how much you actually hate it here. How much more superior it is to live elsewhere and "Thai people" are merely a bunch of stupid idiots who has no intention of improving the ways we welcome you foreigners here. It's perfectly ok to not like living here and it's perfectly ok to wish the conditions here are better. I've been reading so many threads here that shows borderline hostility to this country, it's way of life, as well as the mentality of the people here. It shouldn't be stereotyped as the typical Thai attitude because it certainly does not reflect the honest truth. I have known through my years abroad and here that every country, every city, has problems of their own. This ranges from simple crimes to full scale riots, not all of these are always handled expertly and without any glitches. It never made me hate a place and ridicule its people as if I am superior than they are. That's a form of prejudice in my view.

A second really good post in this thread: unfortunately, many people who post in this forum haven't been here long enough to see the progress that is being made and can only see things the way they are currently, their only reference point, sadly, is the way that things are back "home". If I were you I wouldn't be too deeply offended but instead put the comments down to ignorance rather than much else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, great post and I hope the poster keeps posting..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One should realise that electricity will kill. Your nationality, race, religion, political views, country, breeding or social status will not protect you.

One can only minimise the risk. This is done by enforcing electrical standards, training and consumer awareness. It starts with the government and electricity authorities and regulatory agencies and one must also have the understanding of responsibilities and duty of care. Also a country requires a

a effective legal system to enforce laws and regulations without fear or favour.

Thailand is ,like many countries, not a "western" one. One travels to Thailand at his/her own risk.

Remember, life is dear, death is cheap.

Edited by electau

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One should realise that electricity will kill. Your nationality, race, religion, political views, country, breeding or social status will not protect you.

One can only minimise the risk. This is done by enforcing electrical standards, training and consumer awareness. It starts with the government and electricity authorities and regulatory agencies and one must also have the understanding of responsibilities and duty of care. Also a country requires a

a effective legal system to enforce laws and regulations without fear or favour.

Thailand is ,like many countries, not a "western" one. One travels to Thailand at his/her own risk.

Remember, life is dear, death is cheap.

You're absolutely correct. I think most people, no matter what race they are, will know the danger of electricity. I also agree that enforcing electrical standards and consumer awareness is necessary. The only thing I can do as a Thai national is try to alert the proper authorities on what needs to be done. If you read Thai papers, watch Thai TV, listen to Thai radio, you'll realize there are quite a lot of Thai people with the same concerns and we love ourselves, our friends and family no less than you foreigners love yours. Not enough has been done obviously, but progress is being made. In Bangkok, with it's obvious traffic problems, there's a 24 hour traffic radio that not only alert drivers of scenes of accidents, but also call for proper authority to get there as quickly as possible. There are networks of people looking out to offer help and there are quick response crews working around the clock to try to maintain stability in this crowded city. They're not always the best educated, neither are they the experts with the problem solving know-how, but it is still comforting to know someone will try to help. By classifying all of us here as a bunch of stupid people without an education is unfair. I'm sure they all wish to meet your country's standards but like any venue of education, these things take time and money. Something not as readily available to them the way it may have been for foreigners. I read in an earlier thread that most Thais have no idea how to perform CPR. Why is that so surprising? Most Americans and Brits I know don't know how either. It's not rocket science, but it isn't something everyday people think of, no matter where they are. Sub standard buildings also exist in the western world, not just here. There are building codes here too and the enforcement agencies are the ones that should be responsible, not the people in the area. I have had my US residence leak and had electrical problems. I enjoyed my time there anyway. I didn't have to blame Americans for my mishaps. Not even after I've been mugged at gunpoint. It's about how you handle yourself more than how much Thailand can make a perfect world for you. I believe that an accident waiting to happen can occur anywhere and not just here. To travel here at his/her own risk can be said about any country. If there are certain things I detest or not wanting to be near, I usually just stay away from it. I know a lot of parts of Thailand that are full of helpful, friendly people in a very secure and safe environment, very close to some of the world's best medicare. It's not as backwards as many people think, and honestly, I feel a lot safer taking the Bangkok Skytrains and Subways than I do in many other cities. Please try to have a more open mind when looking at Thailand and try to enjoy yourself while you're here. Or you can try coming back a decade later and hope to find some improvements. Send information regarding your concerns to the proper channels instead of bitching about it here if you really, truly want to help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sittisan, thank you for your educated and reasoned post. I wish more people weren't so quick to blast their adopted country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theres a big difference between being culturally tolerant and accepting, and being apathetic about life threatening shortcuts and bad choices..

Should we just say discos shouldnt have fire escapes because thats how its done ?? Or passenger ferries may as well skip the life jackets because.. well.. lifes cheap ?? Lets forget seat belts or crash helmets.

Someone choose to put that there.. That choice cost a young man his life. Unless poor judgement like that gets punished theres no reason for the next person not to also use poor judgement, and also cost lives. Thai or farang, people deserve better. To argue otherwise is to say we may as well remain cavemen, because 'thats how it was'.. Suggesting that people should expect the ground to not kill them is not the first leak in the dyke of some Orwellian big brother nanny state, its not the mark of some superior social freedom.

Exactly right!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry haven't read all the posts but a warning to all who come here that that electrical stuff is NOT as safe as your homeland. My wife's mum will NOT shower in our house cos of fear of death, though l have set up a safe system. That's the way it is here. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a Thai citizen I can certainly understand the concerns foreigners may have regarding safety and the public service nightmares that can cause tragic events like this.

I think, and it's only my personal opinion, that many things need to be improved here drastically to make Thailand reach the same level of sophistication you foreigners expect from living in paradise. I know there are lots to be done and honestly, a lot has improved from before. 20 years ago and 10 years ago, things are worse. Things are being continuously improved but at a snail slow pace and it bothers Thais living here too. However, throwing nasty comments in here will not make things improve. All it shows is how much you actually hate it here. How much more superior it is to live elsewhere and "Thai people" are merely a bunch of stupid idiots who has no intention of improving the ways we welcome you foreigners here. It's perfectly ok to not like living here and it's perfectly ok to wish the conditions here are better. I've been reading so many threads here that shows borderline hostility to this country, it's way of life, as well as the mentality of the people here. It shouldn't be stereotyped as the typical Thai attitude because it certainly does not reflect the honest truth. I have known through my years abroad and here that every country, every city, has problems of their own. This ranges from simple crimes to full scale riots, not all of these are always handled expertly and without any glitches. It never made me hate a place and ridicule its people as if I am superior than they are. That's a form of prejudice in my view.

A second really good post in this thread: unfortunately, many people who post in this forum haven't been here long enough to see the progress that is being made and can only see things the way they are currently, their only reference point, sadly, is the way that things are back "home". If I were you I wouldn't be too deeply offended but instead put the comments down to ignorance rather than much else.

And a third good post! I would add that a lot of posters forget or are not aware h0w long it took their country of origin to establish and enforce high levels of electrical safety in homes or businesses and at what cost in lives and money. In the 16 or so years that I've lived and worked here there has been huge improvements in safety standards here. As you mentioned. people who haven't seen the changes will see things differentlly. Posters who make statements like "they can't ........... or ""the Thais are incapabable of.............." or similar appear in most cases to be made by people who are uninformed and in most cases unqualified to make any comment on the subject in question. Don't worry Sittisan 911 these people may seem nasty and hostile but they probably are so miserable that they won't stay here too long

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I guess we all agree that we would all be better off with better electrical standards and better electrical systems.

Most of the electrical systems I've seen in low-cost housing in Thailand were sensible enough although I always missed the lack of electrical grounding.

And we can start the ball rolling by implementing good practices on our own -- "The Man in the Mirror".

When we did our place we put all electrical and other cables and wiring underground, put a ground on every outlet, sank some hefty grounding rods, and installed a 3-phase system. All done by Thais.

And we use 12-volt DC current on our halogen swimming pool lights so never worry about our kids getting zapped.

Good practices make sense and people will adopt them when the advantages become clear. Thailand has improved a lot in the last half century although some things they ought to change stubbornly persist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also that doesnt sound like AC current? Its usually high vold DC current that makes you drop or cant release something when shocked it contracts the muscles. AC was introduced because it makes you jump i you get a shock, jump away and release the wire/plug etc

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/770179-overview#a0104

High-voltage DC often causes a large single muscle contraction that throws the victim away from the source; thus, usually only brief duration of contact occurs with the source flow. In contrast, AC of the same voltage is considered to be approximately 3 times more dangerous than DC, because the cyclic flow of electrons causes muscle tetany that tends to prolong victims' exposure to the source. Muscle tetany occurs when fibers are stimulated at 40-110 Hz; thus, the standard 60 Hz of household current is within that range. If the source contact point is the hand, when tetanic muscle contraction occurs the extremity flexors contract, causing the victim to grasp the current and bring it closer to the body causing prolonged contact with the source.

Table 1. Physiologic Effects of Different Electrical Currents (Open Table in a new window)

EffectCurrent (milliamps)Tingling sensation/perception1-4Let-go current – Children3-4Let-go current - Women6-8Let-go current – Men7-9Skeletal muscle tetany16-20Respiratory muscle paralysis20-50Ventricular fibrillation50-120

Direct current (DC) injury: These injuries typically cause a single muscle contraction that throws the victim away from the source. They are rarely associated with loss of consciousness unless there is severe head trauma, and victims can often provide their own history.

http://emedicine.med...770179-clinical

I know that this AC versus DC is still a point of contention as to which one will 'throw you off and which one will not', but I still have to agree with you. I have had some large DC 'belts' in my life; due in part to my own stupidity I have to say, but they have always resulted in my body reacting by throwing me away from the source.

I have quite moist skin and thus a low resistance and even low voltages like the old 'AC bridge' device used measure inductance and capacitance would be sufficient to give me a severe tingling sensation. I have looked at your reference 'source' and it seems quite adamant as to which one is the worst of the two.

I have not seen anybody come back with any comment re my question as to why AC supplies are 'referenced to earth?'

Any takers please.

My condolences to the family of the young man who was killed; a tragic accident that should not have happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...