Khon Korat Are Not Issan People

[bina]

talking language etc here;

what do u issaaners say (or your better halves who should know more than u all )

three out of three korat guys say that korat poeple are not issaan people (mai phuut issaan thai etc... also food wise)

three out of three is all i have access to.... just curious thats all

[OxfordWill]

My mate Oat is from Korat and also says he is not E-sarn. However, Korat is part of E-Sarn whether they like it or not!

[dutch]

Korat is called the " Gateway " to Isaan.

[Ken]

Korat is called the " Gateway " to Isaan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again, aye Jeff? So I guess it depends on which side of the "gate" you think you live. Apparently some say not the Issan side and others say different. The people that I talk to both Farang and Thai (including Thai school teachers) say that it is part of Issan.

[RamdomChances]

The only people who think that "Khon Korat" are not from Issarn are "Khon Korat"

[moonoy]

Korat is in Esarn.. This is absolutely call Esarn and Khon Esarn.. but if Khon Korat say that they are not Esarn.. This would mean that their ancester are not from Esarn.. Maybe from other part of Thailand...

I was born in Udonthani.. this is also in Esarn.. I was living in Bangkok many years.. but I still call that I'm" Khon Esarn"

[Jeff1]

Korat is called the " Gateway " to Isaan.

Here we go again, aye Jeff? So I guess it depends on which side of the "gate" you think you live. Apparently some say not the Issan side and others say different. The people that I talk to both Farang and Thai (including Thai school teachers) say that it is part of Issan.

Yep , if the gate closed it would be Issan . If you were across the street when the gate closed I guess you would be in ............Thailand .

So I like Issan better .

[plachon]

First thing, Isaan is a region and not a people or language. It roughly coincides with the Khorat Plateau, the large flattish plain encompassing the Mun and Chi river basins, and named after the city and province which you enter first when you cross over the watershed from the central Plains. Hence if you were born in Khorat city, strictly speaking you are from Isaan. Isaan also includes all the provinces bordering the Mekong from Loei to Ubon, not on the Khorat plateau.

You may speak central Thai, Chinese, Khmer or whatever and not identify with the majority Lao-speaking population who hold up the Isaan culture and traditions most strongly, or you may just be a snob and pretend not to be a Lao Isaan (quite common), but certain things would soon give you away as to your cultural heritage and roots.

Having said this, Khorat is the melting pot of Isaan due to its gateway position and the people are pretty mixed up (like their somtam ). Hence, they could be quite easily typified in many villages a Luk-krung Isaan-Thai, rather than the real McCoy.

Ask them Bina, if a/they speak pasa Lao as their first language, b/ eat kownieow or kow jao, c/ like pla raa in their somtam? If the answer is 3 out of 3, then they are true Lao-Isaan, but if the answer positive to less than 3, then they may be less than "pure" examples, but still born in Isaan whatever.

[bina]

plachon:

'mai phuut ' men bor'; mai phuut 'pudai', 'mai khid hawt' etc etc etc.... i'm working with someone now from korat for two months... i am being corrected in my speech constantly which is good, but will have to switch to nongkhai thai when my worker comes back from home vacation :

am aware of course of the geographic vs. ethnographic differences just curious how they consider themselves ...

i think that korat people are in denial.....

[thaibites0]

I think people are missing the point here and that is that Thai's from Bangkok look down upon everybody from outside Bangkok and Isaan (however you want to spell it is fine - Thai's spell it in official documents and posters in lots of different ways) is where the impoverished cheap labour comes from so if a Thai resident from Isaan can say 'I am not Isaan he/she is looking to increase their status in the eyes of the person they are speaking too.

Nakhon Ratchasima is the gateway and therefore allows the people to say they are not Isaan people so give them the benifit of the doubt - it's a fine line and Thai's need to save face at all times.

[farangnoi]

My wife is from comes from Srisaket, so very Isaan, and she's proud of it.,

Like the whole familie who all live in the '"great city )" of B. Nong Kheang ( popp. 500 people). My friends wives all are from Korat and proud Lady's from the Isaan. But I know aswell these people who are shy or feel shamed because they come from the Korat. And the people in Bkk who are looking down on the Isaan? are looking down on there own people cause the most are coming from there.

[banpaeng]

First I want to say that these are some good points both pro and con. I also think hte last poster has started to hit it right. It amazes me to go to Bangkok and see some top flight Isan eateries. I also beleive that you will see in the future a lot more emphasis being placed on the northeast for industry, tourism, retirement, etc.

Beware Isan is on the rise. Why do the folks in BKK want to move out and one of thier destinations is ISAN>

[thaibites0]

Doesn't alter the fact that Bangkokians look down on everybody that is not from bangkok and the Issan food in Bangkok ranges from expensive diners to the somtam stalls for construction workers.

Thai's go to great length's to keep their skin as light a colour as possible because the darker your features the lower down the chain you are so a light skinned non Issan resident of Korat would just about do it!

[bina]

doesnt eat khao niew (makes him drunk!?) , eats that gourami stuff in the somtam, parents were born khorat.... speaks thai! not lao!! (quoting him is all)

however, all the issaarn guys that i deal with do not seem to have any inferiority complex whatsoever: 'we have teh best food, the most 'jai dee', 'nam jai' etc etc.....

reverse snobbism!!

[plachon]

doesnt eat khao niew (makes him drunk!?) , eats that gourami stuff in the somtam, parents were born khorat.... speaks thai! not lao!! (quoting him is all)

however, all the issaarn guys that i deal with do not seem to have any inferiority complex whatsoever: 'we have teh best food, the most 'jai dee', 'nam jai' etc etc.....

reverse snobbism!!    

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Bina,

Got a funny old mixed up one there : Doesn't eat khao nieow, doesn't speak Lao, but eats "gourami stuff in his somtam" (would that be pla rah by any chance?), which puts his somewhere in between Central Thai and Isaan-Lao, which is just about right for his geographical home. Like I said, a lot of luk krung in Khorat.

I'm told there's a Khorat dialect all of its own, some words of which are not borrowed from Thai or Lao and would only be recognisable to a local. See if you can tempt him into revealing if he speaks it. If he came from the city or any of the amphur towns and his parents were traders, then there is a good chance he would come from Chinese ancestry and then would probably identify themselves more with Central Thai than the "inferior" Isaan-Lao farmers of the region. Government staff too are quite often virtually "brain-washed" into never mentioning the Lao connections running through Isaan, and will bilk at the suggestion that there could be any link, even cultural and historical. However, they are always quick to point out how Khunying Mo saved Thailand (read: Siam) from the marauding Lao invaders, even though there is precious little hard historical records to support this heroine figure.

How's your Nong Khai dialect doing by the way?

[bina]

getting my knuckles rapped every time i say 'mia' 'pua' etc... 'pudai' ... and he forces me to speak (chai, mai chai... not ." uuh! as issan say 'chai')... but its good in that i have to answer in full sentences using pronouns, classifiers etc.... also, names of animals (rather confusing since i know all the animals in nongkhai thai/lao)... i did say there is a khorat language ... will try to catch the differences...

do all khorat people speak so fast and singsongy????

also the food (i'm suffering slightly, no khao niew, dried meat, laab, etc)... lots of stuff in sauces.... he doesnt hunt (no roast pigeon or sparrow)as in, he doesnt see every animal as a potential food item...

i have him with me for an other month or so and then 'nongkhai' comes back... i actually feel a country bumpkin for speaking issaan!!!! especially as i am the employer and he is also younger and he is correcting me~~~~

pla raa... the gourami stuff (raa in hebrew means 'bad' so bad fish it definately is...)

[thaibites0]

Somtam is a regional dish and will change from area to area - you will get the basic ingredients and this will be built upon depending upon the area of Issan that you are in 'nam phla' is always added but 'boo' is optional depending how far you are from a river that supports land crabs, it all comes down to the cook be it in house or a restaurant. When you smell the fish sauce that has been buried for 3 months and can still eat the 8 'met' somtam you are a better man than me Gungadin!

[Artisan]

I have a book called "Isaan - Forgotten provinces of Thailand". The book was prepared by the Hotel Sofitel in Khon Kaen and the text and the phorographs are by Ben Davies. In this book he writes "The Northeastern Region of Thailand, known as Isaan, is an area of unparalleled cultural, historical and geographical variety stretching from Saraburi in the west to the Lao and Cambodian borders in the east". That puts Khorat well into the Isaan region.....................and I fully agree with him.

[Boo]

I have a fair few mates from Korat & they don't understand the issan dialect my husband & his family speak in Khon Kaen. They claim not to be issan people as their don't speak the dialect. My hubby also deosn't consider Korat part of issan geographically either.

[Artisan]

This topic is very much like saying that the Vatican City isn't in Italy!!!....... Of course Khorat is in Isaan.

This is what the Tourism Authority of Thailand's website says:-

Geographically, Nakhon Ratchasima borders on Chiyaphum and Khon Kaen Provinces in the north, Buriram Province in the east, Chiyaphum and Saraburi Provinces in the west and Nakhon Nayok and Prachin Buri Provinces in the south. Khorat is also I-Sans largest province.

http://www.tourismthailand.org/destination...x?provinceid=19

[bina]

geographically khorat is in issaan, but ethnographically i guess it is sort of on the edge with a good mix....

since the issaan majority here (not thailand obviously) has goneto the home country for a break, the khoraters have taken over food preparation with notable differences in taste, preparation and style... and my spoken thai is improving by leaps and bounds... the issaaners will have to work extra hard when they return to get my dialect back again...

[The Dan Sai Kid]

First thing, Isaan is a region and not a people or language. It roughly coincides with the Khorat Plateau, the large flattish plain encompassing the Mun and Chi river basins, and named after the city and province which you enter first when you cross over the watershed from the central Plains. Hence if you were born in Khorat city, strictly speaking you are from Isaan.  Isaan also includes all the provinces bordering the Mekong from Loei to Ubon, not on the Khorat plateau.

You may speak central Thai, Chinese, Khmer or whatever and not identify with the majority Lao-speaking population who hold up the Isaan culture and traditions most strongly, or you may just be a snob and pretend not to be a Lao Isaan (quite common), but certain things would soon give you away as to your cultural heritage and roots.

Having said this, Khorat is the melting pot of Isaan due to its gateway position and the people are pretty mixed up (like their somtam  ).  Hence, they could be quite easily typified in many villages a Luk-krung Isaan-Thai, rather than the real McCoy.

Ask them Bina, if a/they speak pasa Lao as their first language, b/ eat kownieow or kow jao, c/ like pla raa in their somtam? If the answer is 3 out of 3, then they are true Lao-Isaan, but if the answer positive to less than 3, then they may be less than "pure" examples, but still born in Isaan whatever. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My wife's from Loei, where they don't speak Issan - they have their own dialect. They don't take Pla Ra in Som Tam - they have some sort of shrimpy water (still gross), and granted she eats Khao Niaw. But don't tell her she's not Issan. She is fiercly proud of her heritage (as she should be).

[baan_yangyai]

Hi!

I've been living in Korat province for quite some time now. We live about 12 km. outside Korat city, in a small village. The Korat dialect is completely different from Isaan dialect. It is spoken in a singsong manner and is EXTREMELY difficult to understand ! I speak, read and poorly write classical Thai language, but this is no help whatsoever in trying to understand the local dialects. Also, the are several different sub-dialects of the Korat dialect, depending on which Ampur you are in. Ampur Muang and Ampur Sung Ngoen are just 2 examples of where the Korat dialects differ.

FYI !

[chechoie]

My missus, born in Khon Kaen says that Korat is not in Isaan.

She says if you draw a line, (kind of semi circle line), from Phetchabun to Phon ,

(about 50miles north of Phimai), to Yasothon, then every thing North of this line, to the Laos and Khmer border is Isaan.

(Give or take 20 miles).

The fact that she was born and raised there, does not mean she is right of course, I guess this is the same in all countries, indigenous people dispute things all the time.

So who is the authority here? The map makers, the government?

I think this is one of those things that can’t really be answered, a bit like “when is a door not a door” etc.

When I explained what a gateway was, she said yeah , ok, Korat is a big door to Isaan, but they no Isaan, kao jai mai?

[ShingDam]

My wifes family comes from Sukothai and Chiang Mai and they told me Korat is Isaan, even the whole Isaan has different dialects. They settled her to Soeng Sang about 40 years ago or so.

So here when it comes to this disscussion its about whom is Thai and whom Cambodia.

I think its not so different from Isaan and not Isaan discussion.