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robblok

Many Lakes Too Expensive

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I have found many lakes to expensive, they loose out on income from expats and hope to get it from tourists only.

Its their business strategy and i accept that. I sometimes question the wisdom of it. I rather have a continuous stream of income then waiting for that one big spender.

On bungsamran i spend around 1000-1500 a day (food included), Shadow i spend around 1000 bt.

Those are amounts that are reasonable if you fish every week 1 or 2 times. I still will go tot the more expensive fisheries (except Palm tree everyone knows why).

They just can't be fished too much by me. 5000+ a day is ok once in a while but doing that every week would put a dent in my budget. I could afford it but i choose to save money because there is a fine line between affording and willing to spend.

I wonder how you guys think about the prices of fisheries.

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It all comes down to money, if you are wealthy then high prices mean nothing unless you are a moral person who does not like being taken advantage of then price does matter, I live here on a very small budget so every thing comes down to money, fishing is some thing I love, their is only one fishing park on Phuket which I have not been to for a very long time mainly due to a price increase, my other hobby which is golf is even worse than fishing, green fee's here on Phuket are very high so again I am virtually priced out of enjoying my 2nd passion.. but I except it as this is where I chose to live, roll on the low season again when prices will drop slightly and I do mean slightly!!

Edited by kenny999

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The flipside- if you can have 1 angler at 5,000 baht instead of 5 anglers at 1,000 baht, the one angler will have a more "exclusive" experience and the fish don't get battered nearly as much. Raising fish to a catchable and bragging size is expensive, and even more so for predator fish. I'm glad there are so many options available here. I choose the lower end of the budget scale here in Bangkok, but may occasionally splurge for some good fly fishing.

Back in the US, it often cost several hundred dollars to gas up the truck, haul the boat to the lake, run the boat, etc. And that doesn't include the boat and insurance payments. Put BSR in the middle of Texas or Florida, and they could charge 10,000 baht and be packed just about every day.

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The flipside- if you can have 1 angler at 5,000 baht instead of 5 anglers at 1,000 baht, the one angler will have a more "exclusive" experience and the fish don't get battered nearly as much. Raising fish to a catchable and bragging size is expensive, and even more so for predator fish. I'm glad there are so many options available here. I choose the lower end of the budget scale here in Bangkok, but may occasionally splurge for some good fly fishing.

Back in the US, it often cost several hundred dollars to gas up the truck, haul the boat to the lake, run the boat, etc. And that doesn't include the boat and insurance payments. Put BSR in the middle of Texas or Florida, and they could charge 10,000 baht and be packed just about every day.

That's the point though. In Thailand I expect to pay Thai prices. Their running costs are relatively cheap compared to western fishing venues. It's also easier to grow bigger fish in Thailand. More natural food in the water, no cold winters.

If the price is too high forget it. I love the fact that I can fish a week at some venues for the same cost as 1 day at other places. It shows some places have their prices all wrong. Don't be fooled into paying too much. :D

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Robblok,

I think this a topic I have commented on in another thread somewhere, but its always interesting to observe expats perspectives on the cost of a days fishing.

The commercial aspect of setting up and running a fishery being a subject I have a lot of experiences in, I feel qualified to make some observations.

Firstly, just like any other country in the world as far as fishing experiences are concerned you get what you pay for as a general rule of thumb. If you was living in the UK on a state pension would you expect to be able to afford to be member of the UK's best carp syndicates? Or fish the most expensive stretches of river for Salmon? Give it some thought and you start to answer your own questions.

There seems to be a perception among a lot expat anglers that fisheries can basically defy the law of economics, just becuase they operate in Thailand. For example that they can create something of value out of fresh air, like a big Mekong, just materialise in a lake becuase "big fish are easier to grow in the tropics, and/or "theres more natural food", when in fact quite the opposite is often true in commercial fisheries. Food is actually the single biggest issue that a fisheries manager has to contend with when he has large stock of big fish in a small pond. Its virtually impossible for the fish to flourish in this environment unless they are fed regularly, and the "hole" is often utterly devoid of nearly all natural food sources.

Fisheries dont "lose revenue" from expats. They are not interest in the amount of revenue your prepared to spend. Fisheries charging 5000BHT a day or more dont care if its tourist money or expat money, your not being singled out for special treatment just becuase you live here...and if you do get offered a discount think yourself fortunate.

Places like shadow lake can offer a low cost days fishing for one reason and one reason only. Their capital investment is old. In the last few years in Thailand, the cost setting up a fishery similar to Shadow Lake has probably risen 5 to 10 fold, putting it into 10s of millions of baht,if you was to invest such sums of money would you feel happy letting people fish for a thousand baht a day? The only reason the fishery can operate at such low charges is that its a long established business...this is very similar for Bungsamran, which really operates on a knife edge, becuase the fish in Bungsamran represent many millions of DOLLARS worth of investment over 30 years...this could all be wiped out in the blink of an eye if they had a contamination and fish kill. Do you think they could restock the venue at the same prices they did 10 or 20 years ago? No! So it would probably just cease to trade.

Ultimately decent low cost fisheries will become harder and harder to find, so I suggest you make hay whilst the sunshines.

Edited by rufanuf

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Robblok,

I think this a topic I have commented on in another thread somewhere, but its always interesting to observe expats perspectives on the cost of a days fishing.

The commercial aspect of setting up and running a fishery being a subject I have a lot of experiences in, I feel qualified to make some observations.

Firstly, just like any other country in the world as far as fishing experiences are concerned you get what you pay for as a general rule of thumb. If you was living in the UK on a state pension would you expect to be able to afford to be member of the UK's best carp syndicates? Or fish the most expensive stretches of river for Salmon? Give it some thought and you start to answer your own questions.

There seems to be a perception among a lot expat anglers that fisheries can basically defy the law of economics, just becuase they operate in Thailand. For example that they can create something of value out of fresh air, like a big Mekong, just materialise in a lake becuase "big fish are easier to grow in the tropics, and/or "theres more natural food", when in fact quite the opposite is often true in commercial fisheries. Food is actually the single biggest issue that a fisheries manager has to contend with when he has large stock of big fish in a small pond. Its virtually impossible for the fish to flourish in this environment unless they are fed regularly, and the "hole" is often utterly devoid of nearly all natural food sources.

Fisheries dont "lose revenue" from expats. They are not interest in the amount of revenue your prepared to spend. Fisheries charging 5000BHT a day or more dont care if its tourist money or expat money, your not being singled out for special treatment just becuase you live here...and if you do get offered a discount think yourself fortunate.

Places like shadow lake can offer a low cost days fishing for one reason and one reason only. Their capital investment is old. In the last few years in Thailand, the cost setting up a fishery similar to Shadow Lake has probably risen 5 to 10 fold, putting it into 10s of millions of baht,if you was to invest such sums of money would you feel happy letting people fish for a thousand baht a day? The only reason the fishery can operate at such low charges is that its a long established business...this is very similar for Bungsamran, which really operates on a knife edge, becuase the fish in Bungsamran represent many millions of DOLLARS worth of investment over 30 years...this could all be wiped out in the blink of an eye if they had a contamination and fish kill. Do you think they could restock the venue at the same prices they did 10 or 20 years ago? No! So it would probably just cease to trade.

Ultimately decent low cost fisheries will become harder and harder to find, so I suggest you make hay whilst the sunshines.

We talked about this before im pretty sure you know what your talking about but your also reasoning from your point of view.

It all depends on how fast you want to make cash and get your money back. I think you guys are just too greedy on that part. Normal business with high investment wont make it back in a few years but you guys seem to want that.

Just divide your investment by 20 plus running cost that would be what you have to cover each year. I think many of you guys think you should divide the investment by 5 or 10.

Thing is im not on a pension and im making far more money then the locals. Around 150k after tax a month. And i still think its expensive. Just would someone be able to fish at the best carp syndicates if he had an above average income ? Id think the answer is yes. They would not set their prices that high. But you guys do so in an environment where cost are low.

I can only conclude you want to make too much profit in a short time. Actually by saying BSR and shadow were old you made the whole point. I think you put your depreciation too high. Normally on building and stuff you have a depreciation of 20+ years. The same could be said for lakes. Your stock that is an other matter at all, if your stocking catfish it would be cheaper as predators.

Anyway we could argue this all year round and in the end you are the one setting the prices not me. But ill do my part to steer fellow anglers away from the fisheries with high price tags.

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Your point about good priced fisheries will become rare, that kinda depends on demand. If the economy takes a big dive you will be out of a business because people cant afford it anymore. While the cheaper fisheries will get your clients.

There is a reason why i am making good money because i operate a lot cheaper as normal accountants. I never have a shortage of clients even in these troubling times my turnover is increasing because people sway away from the more expensive accountants and end up with me.

So i know what i am talking about, does not need to apply to you but if the economy takes a good hit im sure you will feel it more then me. I might even get more money then. Also because i have many clients i don't worry if a few drop out. If your one big client drops out your f..cked.

Just showing you there are always 2 sides to a coin. In the end its your money, your investment, your prices.

Also i was talking that they were too expensive for regular fishing. Not for the once in a while splash out.

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1000 baht a day???

Come fish the Chao Phraya! Its free and there is good sport and good company near the Bangkok Bridge (Saphan Grungthep) most weekends!

Bring a few ales and you're sorted.

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@ rufanuf

How fast do the pla bug grow ? I seen some remarks in wiki that i find crazy to believe.

Anyway shadow does keep up stock (small bugs) and because it has adults already the investment isn't that high then.

I still wonder why its bad to have 5 people fishing at 1000 baht instead of 1 at 5000.

The 5 will buy more food and bait and feed the fish for you that way. Only thing is they could damage the fish.

BSR seems to do good with its prices and because of the many anglers they dont need to feed much extra.

Anyway i am going to pay around 5k a day to fish a few days at gillams (or however you spell it) I don't mind that on occasion, i was talking about fishing regularly like i do (2 times a week). That would make 40k a month only on fishing :D

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1000 baht a day???

Come fish the Chao Phraya! Its free and there is good sport and good company near the Bangkok Bridge (Saphan Grungthep) most weekends!

Bring a few ales and you're sorted.

I prefer fishing for bigger fish though id love to fish the river but not from a bridge but from a bit of land. I looked if i could fish somewhere on the river but its all build full or not accessible.

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There are some hefty fish in the river Rob.

We don't fish off the bridge but under it, using a good heavy ledger (sinker) with a paternoster at two feet and squid or shrimp. Almost a sea fishing rig.

More than anything it's a good laugh. There are folks from all walks of life there and a good drink usually ensues.

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There are some hefty fish in the river Rob.

We don't fish off the bridge but under it, using a good heavy ledger (sinker) with a paternoster at two feet and squid or shrimp. Almost a sea fishing rig.

More than anything it's a good laugh. There are folks from all walks of life there and a good drink usually ensues.

That is the kind of fishing that i like to do. I fish in lakes and in nature, i dont need to get the big fish (just change my tackle to what is being caught).

I seen ppl on bridges and that is just not my thing, but on a ledger its fun. Also Bungsamran and shadow are not that expensive the prices i quoted are inclusive food and bait.

Cant wait for this month to be over (work) so i can get my lines wet again.

We should meet up sometimes and you can drink all you want, i only drink when the gf is driving. Last time at BSR i almost dropped my rod and reel in the water (was fast enough get it when it sank) That was because i had drank some beers. Would have been an expensive day.

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The wife usually picks me up around 7 and then we head off for grub and ales elsewhere once she's scrubbed my hands like me mam used to do when I was a kid.

Cant wait for this month to be over (work) so i can get my lines wet again.

There is so much I want to say here but won't.....laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif

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HD, have you ever tried fishing in the river at the end of Sampawut Road (go down Bang Na Trat towards Sukhumvit and keep on going at the cross road to where the ferry leaves for Wat Bangnampeung). I believe it is in your end of town. I have seen locals fishing there often enough catching Sawai.

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"big fish are easier to grow in the tropics, and/or "theres more natural food", when in fact quite the opposite is often true in commercial fisheries. Food is actually the single biggest issue that a fisheries manager has to contend with when he has large stock of big fish in a small pond. Its virtually impossible for the fish to flourish in this environment unless they are fed regularly, and the "hole" is often utterly devoid of nearly all natural food sources.

Non the less places like Thailand are easiest to grow the biggest freshwater fish.

That's why the biggest stingray in the World grow in wild rivers. It's why the biggest carp and catfish in the world grow in their rivers.

Thai waters are teaming with life and natural food sources. There's lots of sun, lots of water. Thus lots of plant life and freshwater plankton. Huge shrimp and lots of juvenile fish to eat.

Extra food to buy in Thailand isn't as expensive as the west. The fish grow 12 months of the year.

A fishing guide is always going to try and justify the expense used to pay their wages.

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